Gunsmithing Can i get an opinion on this bedding job

[stello1001]

Hey all,

Had this rifle bedded but could never get it to shoot. Initially, I found some hollow spots on tang area. Yesterday night, I pulled it apart and found that the area around the front pillar, inside the recoil lug area, was not filled completely. You can see the bedding compound is not all the way flush to the top of the pillar. The area front of the recoil lug also has a smudge built up which I know is excess that flowed forward. That should have been cleaned up but wasn't, so the barrel was contacting on it. So in total, I found 3 somewhat concerning things.


3 hollow spots on rear tang area

Bedding compound not flush up to the front pillar to create a perfect mate

Bedding compound forward of the recoil lug touching the barrel


I've already cleaned up the spot that was making contact with the barrel. Obviously I will go shoot and see for myself if that changes anything. However, would anyone care to have an opinion? I was thinking that as long as I don’t have high spots I will be good (so I should be fine since the hollow areas are low spots) but what does the hide say?

All my other rifles are on a chassis so I'm not too savvy or experienced with bedded rifles.

 

[WeiserBucks]

It doesn't look completely fucked, but if you paid for it then I'd be disappointed.

 

[dirtybores]

It sucks cosmetically, but functionally its probly fine.

Is that for a Howa or Vanguard? Sometimes they don't like bedding that traps the rear tang, or on the forward/front side of the recoil lug. The part in contact with the barrel itself probably isn't hurting much. The couple I bedded I found became very sensitive to action screw torque.

 

[stello1001]

It sucks cosmetically, but functionally its probly fine.

Is that for a Howa or Vanguard? Sometimes they don't like bedding that traps the rear tang, or on the forward/front side of the recoil lug. The part in contact with the barrel itself probably isn't hurting much. The couple I bedded I found became very sensitive to action screw torque.

It's a howa mini. I've gotten rid of the part touching the barrel. As soon as I have time to go out and test again i will do so. I tried with many different torque values when I first went out to shoot.

I just hate finding many hollow spots. I just found another larger one and it's making me question the structural integrity of the bedding now.

 

[dirtybores]

I'd degrease the screws and the holes they go into. Set at 55 in/lbs. That's what value mine liked. I would however get my money back if you paid for the bedding job.

 

[iceng]

Ugly, but will work. Fixable without many issues if you did it yourself.

 

[stello1001]

Yeah I had it done at a gunsmith. His Apprentice did the job after having successfully done many other howas.

 

[Mordamer]

Your precision issues are almost certainly from some other cause than that bedding job.

The most likely causes are you, your ammo or your barrel, but that's just guessing based on my experience.

 

[Bigfatcock]

I’ve seen worse, but that is heinous and I wouldn’t have paid for that.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

Id relieve behind the rear ledge on the tang, none of my howas or sakos have liked contact there. What kind of accuracy are you seeing?

 

[spartan50]

IMHO it’s in complete and very lacking around the lug area, there should be no holes of any kind in the bedding material. I bed all my rifles and there are no holes. I also clean with dermal so there is no material we’re I don’t want it Or need it? The tang area was not clean out enough or even enough right around action screw location to provide proper support evenly for expansion and contraction of that wood stock if you ask me? I agree with above on torquing propel especially on savage actions.. If you have the mechanical skill I would consider doing it again?

 

[Wannashootit]

Small air bubble voids in a bedding job are cosmetic and inconsequential.

You say you "had it bedded but could never get it to shoot". Therein lies the question.
Did you have it bedded "new"- before ever shooting it? If not, you have no basis for comparison.

Also "if not", could be the stick itself being defective (barrel/chamber) and the best quality bedding job won't help.

If the bedding job was improperly done by the smith- not "stress free"- you could be bending the action when the action screws are torqued which is detrimental to accuracy. There's a way to check for this if you have a vise, and and dial test indicator.

 

[stello1001]

Small air bubble voids in a bedding job are cosmetic and inconsequential.

You say you "had it bedded but could never get it to shoot". Therein lies the question.
Did you have it bedded "new"- before ever shooting it? If not, you have no basis for comparison.

Also "if not", could be the stick itself being defective (barrel/chamber) and the best quality bedding job won't help.

If the bedding job was improperly done by the smith- not "stress free"- you could be bending the action when the action screws are torqued which is detrimental to accuracy. There's a way to check for this if you have a vise, and and dial test indicator.

Yes I had it bedded new so you're right. I have no basis, I never did. I bought the barreled action on its own and the stock separately. The stock comes unfinished and required some minor fitting and work to be done. This is why I had the work done.

I did acknowledge the fact that the barrel is straight ass, it could potentially be a bad one.

For those wanting to know, the best group I ever got was around 3 inches and definitely not repeatable. Most everything was closer to 6 inches and not consistent at all. I also don't even recall if I ever made it out to 100 yards when I did the initial testing or if I stayed at 50 yards due to not being able to group.

Regardless, 6 inches is a lot at 50 yards or 100 yards.

I already took it apart and removed the little bed at the barrel directly in front of the recoil lug. I will test on Tuesday or Wednesday of this week and report.

 

[Mordamer]

Yes I had it bedded new so you're right. I have no basis, I never did. I bought the barreled action on its own and the stock separately. The stock comes unfinished and required some minor fitting and work to be done. This is why I had the work done.

I did acknowledge the fact that the barrel is straight ass, it could potentially be a bad one.

For those wanting to know, the best group I ever got was around 3 inches and definitely not repeatable. Most everything was closer to 6 inches and not consistent at all. I also don't even recall if I ever made it out to 100 yards when I did the initial testing or if I stayed at 50 yards due to not being able to group.

Regardless, 6 inches is a lot at 50 yards or 100 yards.

I already took it apart and removed the little bed at the barrel directly in front of the recoil lug. I will test on Tuesday or Wednesday of this week and report.

Something is major wrong and it isn't the bedding. You are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Scimitar]

Yep, the bedding is fugly but that shouldn't be causing the accuracy issues that you are describing. I would look at scope rings and base. If bo problems there, check the crown on the barrel. I have had multiple Howas and once bedded they shot better than they should have for the price paid. I'm thinking other problems.

 

[dirtybores]

I once cut a Howa barrel back from 26 to 22 inches. Threaded, recrowned and it went from a solid shooter to absolutely terrible. Wasn't a stability issue or anything else, it was that factory barrel. I replaced with a takeoff factory barrel and it went right back to fine.

 

[Modoc]

Odd thought, do you have access to a take off factory stock? If so, put the barreled action in it and torque to 35 inch pounds (plastic bottom metal) and see how it shoots. I know that the factory stock is crappy, but I got below half MOA in one before replacing it with a stiffer carbon fiber stock.

 

[mick243]

check the inside of the action threads especially the front one....

sometimes when the bedding job isnt done with the correct care and attention, some bedding compound finds its way into these threads - then when you assemble the action into the stock you think you have torqued the bolts properly but they dont produce the proper clamping force at the action/stock interface and this destroys accuracy/precision.

 

[RegionRat]

One reason to focus on a particular design, is to be able to troubleshoot and diagnose yourself.

The advantage of focusing, is to gather the skills and tools to diagnose problems, for example a different chassis stock to use for troubleshooting questions like bedding.

If you have a chassis stock, you can test the barreled action independently and then you have completely eliminated that original stock in question.

Also, the focus allows you to keep spare scope mounts and gives you the confidence to pull all that hardware off and use a known good scope to test.

Unfortunately, there is still the chance that some other part of your system is to blame. If you have a mentor or friend willing to double check your work, now is the time. If not, then a competent smith can diagnose and then fix what ever is wrong.

Either way, I hope your frustrations end soon. Good Luck and in for the report.

 

[stello1001]

I went out today after removing the little spot of bedding material contacting the barrel and putting her back together.

I set up where I thought would be close enough to borescope and just get on paper. After ranging, that turned out to be 77 yards. I said fuck it and rolled with the punches.

First shot was very high and left. My aiming point was the middle of the 3 orange boxes on the bottom. First shot is not labeled but is visible on picture.

I made one correction basing of the POI using my reticle. Aimed back at the same target and voila! I got the impact inside the orange square just on the bottom. Second shot was just outside to the left and third on the top right quadrant.

Since this is a hunting gun for my dad, I didn't care about having a rifle that shoots 1/3 moa. After all, he will be shooting deer inside 200 yards.

I decided to try Federal 90 grain TNT just to get to know the rifle better and see if it prefers one ammo over another. I didn't like the group.

Next up was going back to the original ammo tested, which is hornady black loaded with a 123 ELDM. Aiming point was top left blue square with the thick bold outline. Group definitely opened up and suppressor shifted the POI. Wasn't really too happy. Suppressor is a TBAC Domius.

I brought out my FN SPR to see if I could eliminate myself as the culprit. I shot the top right blue square and had the 3 impacts just low of my aiming point. I made one correction and I was good with the result. I shot my FN SPR with the suppressor both times using Norma ammo loaded with a 175 grain golden target.

At this point, this is a huge improvement over last time I took the rifle out. However, I Shot steel out to 300 yards and could never get any consistency on a 8.5" plate. I made first shot impact almost dead center using the suppressor (which at this point is already cool to the touch) and guesstimated a 1.4 mil solution. I let dad rip a few more since I was already on target. He missed both. So now I get back on the rifle to see if it's him or the rifle. I wasn't able to figure it out. I held over and under many times as well as dead center. I tried with and without suppressor.

At this point I'm a bit frustrated so I get the 308 out to see what's up. I guesstimate again a 1.1 mil solution and sure enough I get consistent hits, my dad gets hits, and a guest we had also had consistent hits. He even had a blast shooting the SPR.

I guess we're back to square one at this point. I'm not comfortable letting my dad hunt with this rifle yet. If you've read this far on my range report, congrats lol!

TLDR:

Rifle shot decent with hornady black 123ELDM at 77 yards without the suppressor.

Below are some pics from today's eventful shenanigans.