Gunsmithing Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece rod?

[sigma2chi]

I JUST got my Surgeon in a few days ago and haven't even shot it yet, my gunsmith is also a friend of mine so he shot it a bit before he gave it to me.

I just cleaned it an hour ago for the first time, used a one piece coated rod and jag from Brownells and used Brownells 1 3/4 inch patches.....The EXACT same patches I used on my duty sniper rifle ( .308 as well just like this one ) and those patches slide right through my duty weapon but I had REALLY FORCE them through this new Kreiger barrel. Twice I had to beat the back of the cleaning rod with my hand to force it through.

Oh, I also used a Possum Hollow Bore Guide so I know I was perfectly aligned when the patch entered the throat/bore.

All that being said....Can you damage a new barrel with a one piece coated rod, jag, patch, bore guide even if they are all the right size for the job but just UNUSUALLY AND EXTREMELY TIGHT.????

 

[MAGUA]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece rod?

You can damage the bore with any rod. Get your self smaller patches or try a size smaller jag. Unscrew the jag when it exits the barrel...you don't want to pull the jag back through the bore and possibly nick the crown.

 

[sigma2chi]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece rod?

I'm removing the jag when it doesn't slide back down on it's own accord.

I was just wondering, at this point more like hoping that since brass is so much softer than the metal the barrel is made out of and since I used a very good bore guide with a one piece coated rod that damaging it was very highly unlikely.

Guess I'll know for sure tomorrow when I hit the range with it.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece rod?

Put your cleaning rod away. A quality custom barrel will not <span style="text-decoration: line-through">fowl</span> foul as much and will not need cleaning as often as you think.

Shoot it until you notice a decline in accuracy then clean it.

 

[MAGUA]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece rod?

The brass jag going down the bore should not be a problem. It is when you pull back in ...the jag can catch the edge of the crown and create a burr which can and will affect the way it shoots. the edge of the crown is sharp like the edge of a knife and can be damaged very easy.

 

[Swan]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece rod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put your cleaning rod away. A quality custom barrel will not fowl as much and will not need cleaning as often as you think.

Shoot it until you notice a decline in accuracy then clean it.

</div></div>

+1 ... why are you cleaning it?

 

[DBohn]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece rod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A quality custom barrel will not fowl as much and will not need cleaning as often as you think.
</div></div>

I haven't noticed any "fowling" in my barrels yet. Is this what I should be watching for?

 

[300sniper]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

I'd absoltly clean the bore of a new rifle before I shot it for the first time. The bore may be tighter on the new barrel than your work rifle. A custom match barrel is usually easier to get a patch through. It definatly shouldn't require beating on the rod to get it through. If a next size down patch still covers your caliber, I'd try that.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

I generally read the posts on this site with a very open mind and willingness to learn as much as possible from the vast Knowledge-base here. But many times after I read some of the answers to posts like this OP I walk away scratching my head. While it makes sense that a cleaning rod can damage a bore if the rod is made of a material as hard as or harder than steel (like fiberglass) I'm just not sure about some of the stuff I read. I used a steel one-piece .22cal sized cleaning rod with no guide on all my rifles for years with no noticeable ill effects. I now use a $40 plastic coated fancy-schmancy rod but still no guide. I rarely clean my rifles because it's just not necessary until accuracy falls but when I do I always smack the back of the brass jag on the crown... again, with no noticeable ill effects. I do pull a bore-snake thru my bore once before a day of shooting if the rifle has sat for a while just to pull out the cob-webs or dust.

While I definitely appreciate the care many take in keeping their fine precision machine in top running condition I wonder how much of that "White Glove" treatment is really necessary. I'm sure this post will piss a lot of guys off but that's not my intention. I'm really just wondering how many guys like myself are out there. Rifles have always been a tool to me. I'm only recently seeing them as something else.

I'll continue to do what I do and I certainly respect those who disagree so don't be afraid to jab away!

Cheers,
John

 

[sigma2chi]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

Well I put 40 rds through it today. The first nearly 30 rds were shot in a frustrating attempt to get a solid position. With those first 30 or so rds I confirmed that a Versa-Pod is a piece of shit and like trying to shoot off a weeble wooble. The benches at my range are built for giants anyway. I'm 5'9" and my feet were almost off the ground.

With the last 7 rounds I had left I said Fxxx It and laid in the dirt. There I quickly re-confirmed that a Versa-Pod is a piece of shit when it comes to stability.

Fighting through the mirage in damn near 100 degree heat I managed to put up one .5 MOA three round group and one 1 MOA four round group.

Not what I was hoping for since my gunsmith put up a 1/8th MOA group with it the very first time from a nice benchrest.

I guess that is accurate enough to believe that the cleaning rod didn't damage anything but far enough apart to make damn well sure I'll have a new bipod next time I go to the range.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

Like other posters, I think you need to trim your patches. Even if it is for a .30 caliber, I usually have to trim mine to get them to pass through the bore with only a small amount of pressure.

I don't want a "tight-tight" patch. If you have to beat the cleaning rod(I have done it, too), you cause the rod to flex and hit the barrel, which can't be good. A long, fluid strok is what I want when pushing the rod through the bore.

david

 

[sigma2chi]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

Still losing sleep over this one. Want to go tomorrow and bag it in perfect for some more test shots but its supposed to be over a hundred degrees and like eighty percent humidity. with that much mirage I probably won't even be able to see the target.....

I have reasoned to myself though that since the patch wasn't cut = no metal on metal contact and since the brass jag was not damaged and it's softer than the metal the barrel is made out of there's no way the barrel could be damaged.

Is that logically correct or am I pissing in the wind and missing something

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

No matter how good your smith is, he can't make your bore extra tight. As said above, trim the patches.

 

[edwin907]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sigma2chi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that logically correct or am I pissing in the wind and missing something </div></div>

You got nothing to worry about other than improving your shooting and cleaning skills.
And you're right, hot and humid as crap here in Georgia too, get an early early start.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

If the patch is too tight, the pressure can bend the rod in the bore until it contacts the bore metal. If thee is grit around, that can wear the bore/throat wherever they contact. I also like to use a fired case that fits the rifle, with the head bored out to fit the rod...that way I know the throat isn't being stroked. JMHO

 

[excess]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

This works for me - read this from Speedy Gonzalez. http://www.rifle-accuracy-reports.com/barrel-break-in.html
Speedy runs a patch of Sweets 7.62 through the barrel first. He says it is mostly large soap particles - a great lubricant. He leaves that in the barrel and moves to Butch's Bore Shine. I've tried this and I can tell you that first patch of Sweets makes the difference in needing to trim patches or not. I don't think I would try this with any other combination of solvents because you don't know how they will react together. Speedy thinks these two play nicely together.

 

[Bagpuss]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

havent read all the replies but most of them

this reply may put your mind at rest

rods bend, a hard push on the rod WILL bend the rod more than short hard taps

I have seen people push reaaly hard on a rod and you can see that stick bending loads and this is gonna cause damage

good advise I can give you is

1) ALLWAYS use a good bore guide

2) if the patch presents itself REALLY tight, stop, remove bore guide and very carefully instert rod from the crown being ultra carefull and slide lightly down the bore and the patch will push out very very easy

3) if the patch starts to go in and gets tight, so its actually started going into the rifling,sharp taps will send the patch down without flexing the rod any where near as much as hard pushing

this is because pushing uses force and force displaces resulting in the rod bending

tapping uses inertia and inertia will flex the rod next to nothing, how can I explain this further?????????? well everyone has seen them swinging clicking stainless ball thingies, you remember, swing one ball, that hits the other five resulting in four of the five remaining dead still and the fith ball swing out and o the process repeats itself again and again and again

I have purchased new pathes for 308 befor that are tight to push through or wont go through using 30 cal jag so purchased a 7mm jag so I can use the patches

 

[sigma2chi]

Re: Can you damage a bore/throat with a one piece

UPDATE--- I just got back from the range again. 97 Degrees in good ol' SC today but I was determined to put my mind at ease.

Shooting off my backpack and having to reset my shooting position COMPLETELY after every single shot which is obviously not ideal but hey, I was shooting off a backpack.

I put up three 5 shot groups of 3/4 MOA or better. With a good bipod and no mirage I feel sure I could have gotten 1/2 MOA or better. My gunsmith (who incidentally is a better shot than me) put up some 1/4 MOA groups off a bench with it before ,he turned it over to me.

Didn't shoot enough groups to make the "group shot policy" standard to post pics but it was accurate enough especially considering the backpack and mirage battle to convince me that no damage was done to the barrel or throat.....

WHEW!!!!!!!!! Brother I was losiing some sleep the last few nights let me tell you..