I have been working with 3 remington rifles, 7mm08,300 wsm,308 sps, the SPS is carbon steel of course and the other 2 are stainless. All bought new, less than 75 rds fired in each, cleaned every 10 to 15 rounds. I don't want to get into the whole bore cleaning procedures thing since that has been beat to death. I use Hoppes bore cleaner and sometimes Sweets and you can never get a white patch out of any of them, I have used Flitz which of course turns the patch black and then I use Hoppes again but the patches are never really white. I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong?
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Can you really ever get a bore clean?
- Thread starter startrek
- Start date
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
Yes
I can get my Bartlein barrels perfectly clean. Not real sure its needed, but i can and do, do it. Lee
Yes
I can get my Bartlein barrels perfectly clean. Not real sure its needed, but i can and do, do it. Lee
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
You can scrub the bore clean using Wipe Out or some of the other bore cleaners. The question is do you really want a squeaky clean bore. I'm in the camp that once the copper is out and the barrel is broken in a light cleaning is all that is needed. Some guys go hundreds of rounds between cleaning waiting for accuracy to drop off. I clean after each trip to the range, but only enough to get the majority of the crud out. Once the patches slip through smoothly I stop. I typically end with a dry patch after the Hoppes then a single oiled patch followed with a final dry patch.
You can scrub the bore clean using Wipe Out or some of the other bore cleaners. The question is do you really want a squeaky clean bore. I'm in the camp that once the copper is out and the barrel is broken in a light cleaning is all that is needed. Some guys go hundreds of rounds between cleaning waiting for accuracy to drop off. I clean after each trip to the range, but only enough to get the majority of the crud out. Once the patches slip through smoothly I stop. I typically end with a dry patch after the Hoppes then a single oiled patch followed with a final dry patch.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
i use shooters choice and get a clean patch at the end but i clean every 40 to 50 rounds out of my bolt rifle
i use shooters choice and get a clean patch at the end but i clean every 40 to 50 rounds out of my bolt rifle
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
First off, you should NEVER, EVER use Flitz in the bore! Put some Flitz on a clean patch, and clean a piece of stainless silverware with it. That black stuff from your silverware isn't powder residue - it's metal.
A bronze cleaning brush leaves "black" in the bore as well. Go get a quality nylon brush, and push a Hoppes-soaked patch through after 10 passes with the wet nylon brush. Let this soak for about 15 minutes, then run a dry patch or two and repeat as necessary.
I'll use a bronze brush for the first 10 passes on a really dirty gun, but if you keep using the bronze brush, you'll keep getting black crap out of your barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
First off, you should NEVER, EVER use Flitz in the bore! Put some Flitz on a clean patch, and clean a piece of stainless silverware with it. That black stuff from your silverware isn't powder residue - it's metal.
A bronze cleaning brush leaves "black" in the bore as well. Go get a quality nylon brush, and push a Hoppes-soaked patch through after 10 passes with the wet nylon brush. Let this soak for about 15 minutes, then run a dry patch or two and repeat as necessary.
I'll use a bronze brush for the first 10 passes on a really dirty gun, but if you keep using the bronze brush, you'll keep getting black crap out of your barrel.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I've wondered this myself, my Remington and Savage barrels could never get them clean. My Krieger and Bartlin barrels clean up with ease. I guess that's the difference in quality barrels and the machining.
DV
I've wondered this myself, my Remington and Savage barrels could never get them clean. My Krieger and Bartlin barrels clean up with ease. I guess that's the difference in quality barrels and the machining.
DV
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I am able to get white patches after 7-8 passes on both my MRAD and Savage Axis 233 using Bore Tech Eliminator cleaner with their proof positive jags and nylon brushes. Only light cleaning after each shooting session, unless I'm going shooting again in the next day or so.
I am able to get white patches after 7-8 passes on both my MRAD and Savage Axis 233 using Bore Tech Eliminator cleaner with their proof positive jags and nylon brushes. Only light cleaning after each shooting session, unless I'm going shooting again in the next day or so.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
sometimes a brass jag will give you a false reading,try one of the nickle plated or alloy ones
sometimes a brass jag will give you a false reading,try one of the nickle plated or alloy ones
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
False readings from brass gives a blue/green coloration to the patch, not the black residue startrek was describing.
False readings from brass gives a blue/green coloration to the patch, not the black residue startrek was describing.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
First off, you should NEVER, EVER use Flitz in the bore! Put some Flitz on a clean patch, and clean a piece of stainless silverware with it. That black stuff from your silverware isn't powder residue - it's metal.
A bronze cleaning brush leaves "black" in the bore as well. Go get a quality nylon brush, and push a Hoppes-soaked patch through after 10 passes with the wet nylon brush. Let this soak for about 15 minutes, then run a dry patch or two and repeat as necessary.
I'll use a bronze brush for the first 10 passes on a really dirty gun, but if you keep using the bronze brush, you'll keep getting black crap out of your barrel.
</div></div>
They make 2 versions of Flitz, one comes in a tube like a paste, the other is a cream like subtance in a bottle.
One thing that Shilen barrel maker recommends is Flitz used exactly as you mentioned. Rub some in a patch and rap the patch around a slightly worn brush and polish the bore with it. This technique is also used for removing copper fouling from the bore. This is the only product recommended by Shilen. I would try the Flitz.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
First off, you should NEVER, EVER use Flitz in the bore! Put some Flitz on a clean patch, and clean a piece of stainless silverware with it. That black stuff from your silverware isn't powder residue - it's metal.
A bronze cleaning brush leaves "black" in the bore as well. Go get a quality nylon brush, and push a Hoppes-soaked patch through after 10 passes with the wet nylon brush. Let this soak for about 15 minutes, then run a dry patch or two and repeat as necessary.
I'll use a bronze brush for the first 10 passes on a really dirty gun, but if you keep using the bronze brush, you'll keep getting black crap out of your barrel.
</div></div>
They make 2 versions of Flitz, one comes in a tube like a paste, the other is a cream like subtance in a bottle.
One thing that Shilen barrel maker recommends is Flitz used exactly as you mentioned. Rub some in a patch and rap the patch around a slightly worn brush and polish the bore with it. This technique is also used for removing copper fouling from the bore. This is the only product recommended by Shilen. I would try the Flitz.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
You have cleaned that barrel more than I've cleaned ones with round counts in the thousands...
Are you hoping to use it as a drinking straw?
The purpose of cleaning is to fix degrading accuracy or prevent corrosion. With that in mind, what are you doing?
You have cleaned that barrel more than I've cleaned ones with round counts in the thousands...
Are you hoping to use it as a drinking straw?
The purpose of cleaning is to fix degrading accuracy or prevent corrosion. With that in mind, what are you doing?
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have cleaned that barrel more than I've cleaned ones with round counts in the thousands...
Are you hoping to use it as a drinking straw?
The purpose of cleaning is to fix degrading accuracy or prevent corrosion. With that in mind, what are you doing?</div></div>
Agreed. My only match grade barrel has only been cleaned twice. Once after the first 75 rounds; my version of a break-in. Again before I started shooting WS2. Otherwise it just gets a dry patch to knock out all of the big stuff.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have cleaned that barrel more than I've cleaned ones with round counts in the thousands...
Are you hoping to use it as a drinking straw?
The purpose of cleaning is to fix degrading accuracy or prevent corrosion. With that in mind, what are you doing?</div></div>
Agreed. My only match grade barrel has only been cleaned twice. Once after the first 75 rounds; my version of a break-in. Again before I started shooting WS2. Otherwise it just gets a dry patch to knock out all of the big stuff.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
A bronze cleaning brush leaves "black" in the bore as well. Go get a quality nylon brush, and push a Hoppes-soaked patch through after 10 passes with the wet nylon brush. Let this soak for about 15 minutes, then run a dry patch or two and repeat as necessary.
</div></div>
I've started using the Bore Tech nylon bore brushes. They fit tight and give the bore a good cleaning as good or better than the bronze brushes. When the bore is clean with the nylon brushes, the patches also come out clean.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
A bronze cleaning brush leaves "black" in the bore as well. Go get a quality nylon brush, and push a Hoppes-soaked patch through after 10 passes with the wet nylon brush. Let this soak for about 15 minutes, then run a dry patch or two and repeat as necessary.
</div></div>
I've started using the Bore Tech nylon bore brushes. They fit tight and give the bore a good cleaning as good or better than the bronze brushes. When the bore is clean with the nylon brushes, the patches also come out clean.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I've looked for the article but no joy. I remember reading an article by a well-known gunsmith talking about a benchrest rifle that was returned for poor accuracy. The guy shot it before it left his shop, but the accuracy had gone downhill.
He ran a bore scope through it, and the sides of the grooves that should have been sharp were worn smooth. The owner confessed to cleaning it with (don't remember if it was J-B or Flitz) a "mildly" abrasive cleaner. The gunsmith said he would not warranty any barrel that had been cleaned in this manner, as it would eventually destroy the rifling.
I was considering trying one of these cleaners at the time, but in the name of barrel life I decided I didn't need to be removing any material (other than by shooting it).
Once I get all of the carbon and copper fouling out of a barrel (patches come out greenish from copper after soaking with Hoppes), if I then run a wet bronze brush through the barrel followed by a patch, the patch comes out almost black. Maybe it's a really dark green, but it's not the color of copper fouling. I watched a relatively new shooter do this with a stainless barreled M1A. He put over 100 patches through his barrel (brushing in between), and couldn't figure out why it was still dirty - when in fact it was brush deposits he was looking at.
I've looked for the article but no joy. I remember reading an article by a well-known gunsmith talking about a benchrest rifle that was returned for poor accuracy. The guy shot it before it left his shop, but the accuracy had gone downhill.
He ran a bore scope through it, and the sides of the grooves that should have been sharp were worn smooth. The owner confessed to cleaning it with (don't remember if it was J-B or Flitz) a "mildly" abrasive cleaner. The gunsmith said he would not warranty any barrel that had been cleaned in this manner, as it would eventually destroy the rifling.
I was considering trying one of these cleaners at the time, but in the name of barrel life I decided I didn't need to be removing any material (other than by shooting it).
Once I get all of the carbon and copper fouling out of a barrel (patches come out greenish from copper after soaking with Hoppes), if I then run a wet bronze brush through the barrel followed by a patch, the patch comes out almost black. Maybe it's a really dark green, but it's not the color of copper fouling. I watched a relatively new shooter do this with a stainless barreled M1A. He put over 100 patches through his barrel (brushing in between), and couldn't figure out why it was still dirty - when in fact it was brush deposits he was looking at.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I concur with one of the previous posters. I have three Bartlein barrels and they will come completely clean if I want them to.
I also have three DTA barrels which I believe are Lothar Walther barrels. They are good shooters, but they take more effort to get clean.
Some of my lower quality barrels seem to never want to clean.
I use Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover followed by their Cu+2 Copper remover. I also skip brushes and just use patches.
I concur with one of the previous posters. I have three Bartlein barrels and they will come completely clean if I want them to.
I also have three DTA barrels which I believe are Lothar Walther barrels. They are good shooters, but they take more effort to get clean.
Some of my lower quality barrels seem to never want to clean.
I use Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover followed by their Cu+2 Copper remover. I also skip brushes and just use patches.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been working with 3 remington rifles, 7mm08,300 wsm,308 sps, the SPS is carbon steel of course and the other 2 are stainless. All bought new, less than 75 rds fired in each, cleaned every 10 to 15 rounds. I don't want to get into the whole bore cleaning procedures thing since that has been beat to death. I use Hoppes bore cleaner and sometimes Sweets and you can never get a white patch out of any of them, I have used Flitz which of course turns the patch black and then I use Hoppes again but the patches are never really white. I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
Textbook problem owner,
Overcleaning and effectively killing the the life of his barrel. It's not the bore that is a problem, it's the owner.
Cleaning every 10 to 15 rounds, even every 50, pure bs and the reason people ruin their barrels by over cleaning.
Read and learn what NOT to do with your precision rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: startrek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been working with 3 remington rifles, 7mm08,300 wsm,308 sps, the SPS is carbon steel of course and the other 2 are stainless. All bought new, less than 75 rds fired in each, cleaned every 10 to 15 rounds. I don't want to get into the whole bore cleaning procedures thing since that has been beat to death. I use Hoppes bore cleaner and sometimes Sweets and you can never get a white patch out of any of them, I have used Flitz which of course turns the patch black and then I use Hoppes again but the patches are never really white. I just ran 50 patches thru the 300 wsm and there is still black on the patches, the inside of a barrel should be cable of cleaning just like the outside but it seems that it not posssible, am I doing something wrong? </div></div>
Textbook problem owner,
Overcleaning and effectively killing the the life of his barrel. It's not the bore that is a problem, it's the owner.
Cleaning every 10 to 15 rounds, even every 50, pure bs and the reason people ruin their barrels by over cleaning.
Read and learn what NOT to do with your precision rifle.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
You guys clean your barrels?
Actually it's been a real serious hard time for me NOT cleaning my rifle after every shooting.
I was taught as a small child when my dad took me shooting, clean your guns after every use. I used to love sitting there with my dad, cleaning the guns, the smell of Hoppes. So nowadays it's really hard for me to break that.
Breaking a barrel in is another big thing for me. I have to fight myself to NOT do a break in procedure.
I just shot my new Bartlein barreled .243 this weekend for the first time. Ran 20 rounds through it checking velocities with new loadings. Got home and ran a wet patch with a couple of drys following. Then ran some copper remover once......just to see if the barrel was fouling. Not a speck of copper. Dried it out and ran a wet patch of oil and dried again.
Shot it again today after working up some ammo and it is a hammer.
I am gonna force myself not to clean it until I start seeing accuracy fall off. I will not give in to temptation!
You guys clean your barrels?
Actually it's been a real serious hard time for me NOT cleaning my rifle after every shooting.
I was taught as a small child when my dad took me shooting, clean your guns after every use. I used to love sitting there with my dad, cleaning the guns, the smell of Hoppes. So nowadays it's really hard for me to break that.
Breaking a barrel in is another big thing for me. I have to fight myself to NOT do a break in procedure.
I just shot my new Bartlein barreled .243 this weekend for the first time. Ran 20 rounds through it checking velocities with new loadings. Got home and ran a wet patch with a couple of drys following. Then ran some copper remover once......just to see if the barrel was fouling. Not a speck of copper. Dried it out and ran a wet patch of oil and dried again.
Shot it again today after working up some ammo and it is a hammer.
I am gonna force myself not to clean it until I start seeing accuracy fall off. I will not give in to temptation!
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
even cleaning after every session is unnecessary ... only clean when your accuracy falls off. I have 400 rounds in my 308 and it is still a tac driver. Of course you should clean your bolt and breech area.
Rule number 1-Believe the bullet
Rule number 2-Believe Lowlight the Grey
-K
even cleaning after every session is unnecessary ... only clean when your accuracy falls off. I have 400 rounds in my 308 and it is still a tac driver. Of course you should clean your bolt and breech area.
Rule number 1-Believe the bullet
Rule number 2-Believe Lowlight the Grey
-K
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
Damn, my .308 and .260 have had atleast 500 rds through each of em since the last cleaning.ATLEAST!! Those clay birds we were busting yesterday at 950 yds sure didn't complain about the dirty bbl.
Damn, my .308 and .260 have had atleast 500 rds through each of em since the last cleaning.ATLEAST!! Those clay birds we were busting yesterday at 950 yds sure didn't complain about the dirty bbl.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
You are overcleaning sir!
The colors you are seeing come out of the barrel like BLACK, is actually the inside of your barrel!!!
SOmetimes the cleaners are colored, so you wont really get a white patch coming though, If I were you, every 100 rounds or so, run a couple patches through it to get any gunk out. Then shoot it for another 100 rounds or so. ANd repeat.
When I first started shooting, I have a .223 savage model 12 varmint.
Brand new it was a tack driver. I mean one hole all frickin day long. Well like the rookie I was, EVERY time I got home from the day of shooting, I would scrub that little savage all night, trying to get the barrel clean. I kept hoping to get that white patch. Soon, that 1/4MOA gun became a 1/2MOA gun. Another 200 rounds later, that 1/2MOA gun became a 1 MOA gun. But I kept cleaning thinking it must surely be dirty by how piss poor its shooting.
I was charged $500 by a gunsmith to put a new barrel on it. And his first comments to me are, do NOT clean it for the first 500 rounds. Then clean only using five patches max.
I took his advice, and the little .223 still shoots lights out 5000 rounds later.
You are overcleaning sir!
The colors you are seeing come out of the barrel like BLACK, is actually the inside of your barrel!!!
SOmetimes the cleaners are colored, so you wont really get a white patch coming though, If I were you, every 100 rounds or so, run a couple patches through it to get any gunk out. Then shoot it for another 100 rounds or so. ANd repeat.
When I first started shooting, I have a .223 savage model 12 varmint.
Brand new it was a tack driver. I mean one hole all frickin day long. Well like the rookie I was, EVERY time I got home from the day of shooting, I would scrub that little savage all night, trying to get the barrel clean. I kept hoping to get that white patch. Soon, that 1/4MOA gun became a 1/2MOA gun. Another 200 rounds later, that 1/2MOA gun became a 1 MOA gun. But I kept cleaning thinking it must surely be dirty by how piss poor its shooting.
I was charged $500 by a gunsmith to put a new barrel on it. And his first comments to me are, do NOT clean it for the first 500 rounds. Then clean only using five patches max.
I took his advice, and the little .223 still shoots lights out 5000 rounds later.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I don't really clean my barrel anymore. It was a hard habit to break after my time in the Infantry in the Marine Corps. All of the reading I have done pretty much points to it as being not needed. I was skeptical, until I quit cleaning. As of right now, I have 700 + rounds on my .260 barrel. Still shoots under .5 MOA if I can do my part. The only thing I do is run a bore snake through my bore after every range session, and that is to simply knock the large chunks of crud out. I might "clean" it this winter, but even that is still up in the air.
I don't really clean my barrel anymore. It was a hard habit to break after my time in the Infantry in the Marine Corps. All of the reading I have done pretty much points to it as being not needed. I was skeptical, until I quit cleaning. As of right now, I have 700 + rounds on my .260 barrel. Still shoots under .5 MOA if I can do my part. The only thing I do is run a bore snake through my bore after every range session, and that is to simply knock the large chunks of crud out. I might "clean" it this winter, but even that is still up in the air.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I only clean my bolt gun barrel every 300 rounds or so. I use a 50/50 mix of Hoppes #9 and Kroil. Put some on a bore mop and run it through once. Let it sit while I drink a few beers. Run a nylon brush through 5 times in 1 direction. Run 10 patches through in 1 direction. Finish my beer. I brake in new barrels by shooting them. My current barrel has only been cleaned twice.
I also run a dry boresnake through it after every range session, 1 time.
Flitz is great stuff but not needed in your barrel.
One of the great things about bolt-actions is the fact that they don't require a whole lot of work to clean them.
I only clean my bolt gun barrel every 300 rounds or so. I use a 50/50 mix of Hoppes #9 and Kroil. Put some on a bore mop and run it through once. Let it sit while I drink a few beers. Run a nylon brush through 5 times in 1 direction. Run 10 patches through in 1 direction. Finish my beer. I brake in new barrels by shooting them. My current barrel has only been cleaned twice.
I also run a dry boresnake through it after every range session, 1 time.
Flitz is great stuff but not needed in your barrel.
One of the great things about bolt-actions is the fact that they don't require a whole lot of work to clean them.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
Can you get a barrel perfectly clean. I'm going to say yes and no. This depends on the quality of the barrel and the bores finish for one.
It also depends on what you mean by clean. Copper clean or powder fouling clean?
Also depends on how many rounds are on it? As you get more and more rounds on the barrel you get the fire cracking/wear etc...in the throat area. Sometimes you think you get the barrel perfectly clean. You have the barrel sitting with some solvent in it or oil etc...and you come back to the barrel say a couple of weeks or months later and you run a dry patch down the bore before going to the range and you get light black dirt color on the patches. This is what some people refer to as the barrel is sweating. The cracks and wear in the steel hold the solvent/oil. After it sits for a while it keeps working on the fouling and keeps loosening it up.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Can you get a barrel perfectly clean. I'm going to say yes and no. This depends on the quality of the barrel and the bores finish for one.
It also depends on what you mean by clean. Copper clean or powder fouling clean?
Also depends on how many rounds are on it? As you get more and more rounds on the barrel you get the fire cracking/wear etc...in the throat area. Sometimes you think you get the barrel perfectly clean. You have the barrel sitting with some solvent in it or oil etc...and you come back to the barrel say a couple of weeks or months later and you run a dry patch down the bore before going to the range and you get light black dirt color on the patches. This is what some people refer to as the barrel is sweating. The cracks and wear in the steel hold the solvent/oil. After it sits for a while it keeps working on the fouling and keeps loosening it up.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys clean your barrels?
Actually it's been a real serious hard time for me NOT cleaning my rifle after every shooting.
I was taught as a small child when my dad took me shooting, clean your guns after every use. I used to love sitting there with my dad, cleaning the guns, the smell of Hoppes. So nowadays it's really hard for me to break that.
Breaking a barrel in is another big thing for me. I have to fight myself to NOT do a break in procedure.
I just shot my new Bartlein barreled .243 this weekend for the first time. Ran 20 rounds through it checking velocities with new loadings. Got home and ran a wet patch with a couple of drys following. Then ran some copper remover once......just to see if the barrel was fouling. Not a speck of copper. Dried it out and ran a wet patch of oil and dried again.
Shot it again today after working up some ammo and it is a hammer.
I am gonna force myself not to clean it until I start seeing accuracy fall off. I will not give in to temptation! </div></div>
I have the same problen as you. I am trying to break my habit also. It is really hard not to clean it.
What does everyone do after a trip to the range, just get the powder residue out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys clean your barrels?
Actually it's been a real serious hard time for me NOT cleaning my rifle after every shooting.
I was taught as a small child when my dad took me shooting, clean your guns after every use. I used to love sitting there with my dad, cleaning the guns, the smell of Hoppes. So nowadays it's really hard for me to break that.
Breaking a barrel in is another big thing for me. I have to fight myself to NOT do a break in procedure.
I just shot my new Bartlein barreled .243 this weekend for the first time. Ran 20 rounds through it checking velocities with new loadings. Got home and ran a wet patch with a couple of drys following. Then ran some copper remover once......just to see if the barrel was fouling. Not a speck of copper. Dried it out and ran a wet patch of oil and dried again.
Shot it again today after working up some ammo and it is a hammer.
I am gonna force myself not to clean it until I start seeing accuracy fall off. I will not give in to temptation! </div></div>
I have the same problen as you. I am trying to break my habit also. It is really hard not to clean it.
What does everyone do after a trip to the range, just get the powder residue out?
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I disagree with lowlight on over cleaning to a degree. Cleaning a barrel will not har a da thing IF you use a proper rod guide. If you do not use a good rod guide then yes you can ruin a barrel in a hurry. I shoot benchrest and there are several in this sport that clean every 10 shots or so. I dont think that is needed but whatever. I clean ever 40 rounds or so, and i always use a boreguide. Its a must!!! If you dont have one, then get one unless you like buying barrels. The hole dont use a Bronze brush is bull crap to. if you dont use a bronze brush then you will develop a carbon problem. nylon will not, i repeat, will not bust up a carbon ring. I have a bore scope and i know this for a fact!! I personally think a nylon brush is a waste of hard earned money. They acomplish very little to nothing. Soe will disagree and thats fine, but in my sport barrels are everything!! If i am going to shoot a .200 5 shot group at 200 yards, y barrel has to be in tip top shape, and clean! Shooting steel may not require such measures, but i proise you that you do not want a carbon ring in your barrel. Your barrel will go from .250 groups to .500 groups and you wont understand why. Been there and seen that!! Good luck Gentlemen! Lee
I disagree with lowlight on over cleaning to a degree. Cleaning a barrel will not har a da thing IF you use a proper rod guide. If you do not use a good rod guide then yes you can ruin a barrel in a hurry. I shoot benchrest and there are several in this sport that clean every 10 shots or so. I dont think that is needed but whatever. I clean ever 40 rounds or so, and i always use a boreguide. Its a must!!! If you dont have one, then get one unless you like buying barrels. The hole dont use a Bronze brush is bull crap to. if you dont use a bronze brush then you will develop a carbon problem. nylon will not, i repeat, will not bust up a carbon ring. I have a bore scope and i know this for a fact!! I personally think a nylon brush is a waste of hard earned money. They acomplish very little to nothing. Soe will disagree and thats fine, but in my sport barrels are everything!! If i am going to shoot a .200 5 shot group at 200 yards, y barrel has to be in tip top shape, and clean! Shooting steel may not require such measures, but i proise you that you do not want a carbon ring in your barrel. Your barrel will go from .250 groups to .500 groups and you wont understand why. Been there and seen that!! Good luck Gentlemen! Lee
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
What is "clean"? Yet another subjective term a la "best".
Should'nt strive to have your barrel ubber-clean. Over cleaning a rifle reduces barrel life. Remove carbon buildup when you start to notice a reduction in <span style="text-decoration: underline">accuracy</span>. Don't chase "clean", chase accuracy.
Currently cleaning my 300WM every 30+ rounds. Simple patch and rod ops.
What is "clean"? Yet another subjective term a la "best".
Should'nt strive to have your barrel ubber-clean. Over cleaning a rifle reduces barrel life. Remove carbon buildup when you start to notice a reduction in <span style="text-decoration: underline">accuracy</span>. Don't chase "clean", chase accuracy.
Currently cleaning my 300WM every 30+ rounds. Simple patch and rod ops.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I know for a FACT that a clean barrel shoots better. Maybe not every day of scrubbing, and i'm like another person said. I have shot BR long enough right beside all the record breakers, and we're not shooting steel at 1000, but tiny dots at 1-400yds. I do run a damp oiled patch however each time I shoot over 10rds, but not when I go and only get 2 g hogs. I also agree that nylon brushes will not touch a hard carbon ring in the barrel. My HART, and Krieger barreled actions, will shoot same .25" dot every time up to a certain #, and then accuracy, and I mean (tiny) bits of accuracy IE from a .145" 5 shot group to a .200" 5 shot group @ 1/200yds. Then a good wet Hoppes patch, followed by 1or 2 breech to muzzle bronze brush "with a bore guide" then oil, and dry, and a fouler, and back to work. Whacking steel, and Tactical Shooting, is completely different than a BR fanatic. Just getting away from the BR life, and trying to produce some longer shots, but my guns will be clean. Just ask my Dad how his 1980's 700 30/06 shoots now, and all I did was a good cleaning. It went from a milk jug group, to under an inch, with a Dewey Rod, bronze brush, Sweets 7.62, and chamber guide, and Rem Oil.
I know for a FACT that a clean barrel shoots better. Maybe not every day of scrubbing, and i'm like another person said. I have shot BR long enough right beside all the record breakers, and we're not shooting steel at 1000, but tiny dots at 1-400yds. I do run a damp oiled patch however each time I shoot over 10rds, but not when I go and only get 2 g hogs. I also agree that nylon brushes will not touch a hard carbon ring in the barrel. My HART, and Krieger barreled actions, will shoot same .25" dot every time up to a certain #, and then accuracy, and I mean (tiny) bits of accuracy IE from a .145" 5 shot group to a .200" 5 shot group @ 1/200yds. Then a good wet Hoppes patch, followed by 1or 2 breech to muzzle bronze brush "with a bore guide" then oil, and dry, and a fouler, and back to work. Whacking steel, and Tactical Shooting, is completely different than a BR fanatic. Just getting away from the BR life, and trying to produce some longer shots, but my guns will be clean. Just ask my Dad how his 1980's 700 30/06 shoots now, and all I did was a good cleaning. It went from a milk jug group, to under an inch, with a Dewey Rod, bronze brush, Sweets 7.62, and chamber guide, and Rem Oil.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
How many rounds through a typical bench rest gun before they stop using it and change the barrel... None of the benchresters mention that part.
How many rounds through a typical bench rest gun before they stop using it and change the barrel... None of the benchresters mention that part.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree with lowlight on over cleaning to a degree. Cleaning a barrel will not har a da thing IF you use a proper rod guide. If you do not use a good rod guide then yes you can ruin a barrel in a hurry. I shoot benchrest and there are several in this sport that clean every 10 shots or so. I dont think that is needed but whatever. I clean ever 40 rounds or so, and i always use a boreguide. Its a must!!! If you dont have one, then get one unless you like buying barrels. The hole dont use a Bronze brush is bull crap to. if you dont use a bronze brush then you will develop a carbon problem. nylon will not, i repeat, will not bust up a carbon ring. I have a bore scope and i know this for a fact!! I personally think a nylon brush is a waste of hard earned money. They acomplish very little to nothing. Soe will disagree and thats fine, but in my sport barrels are everything!! If i am going to shoot a .200 5 shot group at 200 yards, y barrel has to be in tip top shape, and clean! Shooting steel may not require such measures, but i proise you that you do not want a carbon ring in your barrel. Your barrel will go from .250 groups to .500 groups and you wont understand why. Been there and seen that!! Good luck Gentlemen! Lee </div></div>
I agree with you, shooting a bullet down a barrel is harder on it than properly cleaning a bore. Also back to the original subject I don't see how 10 patches of Flitz cream once in a blue moon is going to hurt a bore, after all your good barrels are lapped by the maker and they use compound more agressive than Flitz or JB bore paste.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree with lowlight on over cleaning to a degree. Cleaning a barrel will not har a da thing IF you use a proper rod guide. If you do not use a good rod guide then yes you can ruin a barrel in a hurry. I shoot benchrest and there are several in this sport that clean every 10 shots or so. I dont think that is needed but whatever. I clean ever 40 rounds or so, and i always use a boreguide. Its a must!!! If you dont have one, then get one unless you like buying barrels. The hole dont use a Bronze brush is bull crap to. if you dont use a bronze brush then you will develop a carbon problem. nylon will not, i repeat, will not bust up a carbon ring. I have a bore scope and i know this for a fact!! I personally think a nylon brush is a waste of hard earned money. They acomplish very little to nothing. Soe will disagree and thats fine, but in my sport barrels are everything!! If i am going to shoot a .200 5 shot group at 200 yards, y barrel has to be in tip top shape, and clean! Shooting steel may not require such measures, but i proise you that you do not want a carbon ring in your barrel. Your barrel will go from .250 groups to .500 groups and you wont understand why. Been there and seen that!! Good luck Gentlemen! Lee </div></div>
I agree with you, shooting a bullet down a barrel is harder on it than properly cleaning a bore. Also back to the original subject I don't see how 10 patches of Flitz cream once in a blue moon is going to hurt a bore, after all your good barrels are lapped by the maker and they use compound more agressive than Flitz or JB bore paste.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groundhogbuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know for a FACT that a clean barrel shoots better. Maybe not every day of scrubbing, and i'm like another person said. I have shot BR long enough right beside all the record breakers, and we're not shooting steel at 1000, but tiny dots at 1-400yds. I do run a damp oiled patch however each time I shoot over 10rds, but not when I go and only get 2 g hogs. I also agree that nylon brushes will not touch a hard carbon ring in the barrel. My HART, and Krieger barreled actions, will shoot same .25" dot every time up to a certain #, and then accuracy, and I mean (tiny) bits of accuracy IE from a .145" 5 shot group to a .200" 5 shot group @ 1/200yds. Then a good wet Hoppes patch, followed by 1or 2 breech to muzzle bronze brush "with a bore guide" then oil, and dry, and a fouler, and back to work. Whacking steel, and Tactical Shooting, is completely different than a BR fanatic. Just getting away from the BR life, and trying to produce some longer shots, but my guns will be clean. Just ask my Dad how his 1980's 700 30/06 shoots now, and all I did was a good cleaning. It went from a milk jug group, to under an inch, with a Dewey Rod, bronze brush, Sweets 7.62, and chamber guide, and Rem Oil. </div></div>
This discussion is not about using a bore guide. I'm sure the OP knows to use a bore guide and a good coated rod. The discussion is about over-cleaning as a result of trying to get a completely white patch. You will never get a completely white patch, the black streaks are metal from the barrel. Once you clean all the carbon and copper, the solvent, which is a metal cleaner, starts eating the barrel and that is bad.
As for BR guys, i'd be interested to see what 5-shot groups would look like over 500 rounds without cleaning. Would they get larger, smaller, same?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groundhogbuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know for a FACT that a clean barrel shoots better. Maybe not every day of scrubbing, and i'm like another person said. I have shot BR long enough right beside all the record breakers, and we're not shooting steel at 1000, but tiny dots at 1-400yds. I do run a damp oiled patch however each time I shoot over 10rds, but not when I go and only get 2 g hogs. I also agree that nylon brushes will not touch a hard carbon ring in the barrel. My HART, and Krieger barreled actions, will shoot same .25" dot every time up to a certain #, and then accuracy, and I mean (tiny) bits of accuracy IE from a .145" 5 shot group to a .200" 5 shot group @ 1/200yds. Then a good wet Hoppes patch, followed by 1or 2 breech to muzzle bronze brush "with a bore guide" then oil, and dry, and a fouler, and back to work. Whacking steel, and Tactical Shooting, is completely different than a BR fanatic. Just getting away from the BR life, and trying to produce some longer shots, but my guns will be clean. Just ask my Dad how his 1980's 700 30/06 shoots now, and all I did was a good cleaning. It went from a milk jug group, to under an inch, with a Dewey Rod, bronze brush, Sweets 7.62, and chamber guide, and Rem Oil. </div></div>
This discussion is not about using a bore guide. I'm sure the OP knows to use a bore guide and a good coated rod. The discussion is about over-cleaning as a result of trying to get a completely white patch. You will never get a completely white patch, the black streaks are metal from the barrel. Once you clean all the carbon and copper, the solvent, which is a metal cleaner, starts eating the barrel and that is bad.
As for BR guys, i'd be interested to see what 5-shot groups would look like over 500 rounds without cleaning. Would they get larger, smaller, same?
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want the bore clean.
OP, your bore is clean. The black is barrel steel. That's a bad thing. </div></div>
^^ Agree with my bud Graham.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want the bore clean.
OP, your bore is clean. The black is barrel steel. That's a bad thing. </div></div>
^^ Agree with my bud Graham.....
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I don't recall enough to find it, but didn't someone just set a BR record with a 100 or more rounds down the bore? I thought there was an accurate shooter article stating as much?
I don't recall enough to find it, but didn't someone just set a BR record with a 100 or more rounds down the bore? I thought there was an accurate shooter article stating as much?
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't recall enough to find it, but didn't someone just set a BR record with a 100 or more rounds down the bore? I thought there was an accurate shooter article stating as much? </div></div>
I haven't seen that article but will tell you this. My benchgun with 105 rounds on the barrel with out cleaning last time out averaged a .177 for group size at a 100 yards. I have the targets to prove it hanging in my office.
I also feel some of the benchrest shooters (6ppc) pull they're barrels to early in round count/barrel life.
I also feel more damage is done from improper cleaning than anything else. When I see a shooter cleaning his barrel like he is working on a clogged kitchen sink I don't get a good feeling. I've seen it more than I care to admit.
I tell guys this as well. Know your gun. It will tell you want it wants and how it needs to be taken care of.
You might find in the early stages of round count on the barrel (depends on caliber) and for arguments sake lets say it's a .308win. You might find the gun will go 400 rounds with out cleaning and have no loss in accuracy.
As the barrel gets rounds on it (round count goes up) and just to pick a number out of the air lets say your at 3500 rounds. You might find the barrel won't go 400 rounds between cleanings. Lets say it's 250 rounds.
As the barrel wears fouling will go up. The bore is getting rougher etc...no way around it.
About 5 or 6 years ago one of the Palma team members barrel had over 2500 rounds on it (.308win.). He had a problem with the cleaner he was using from what we determined. He got so scared to clean the gun he didn't clean it for around 400 rounds. I forget the exact round count. He went to a long range match (800, 900,1000 yard) and out of a score of 450-45x's he shot a 445-with 20 some x's for record. Then he finally cleaned the barrel.
Just because the guy down the street cleans his gun differently than you doesn't mean he is doing it better etc...As long as you are not damaging the gun/barrel who cares. Use the method you are comfortable with and just pay attention to your gun. It will tell you what it needs.
later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't recall enough to find it, but didn't someone just set a BR record with a 100 or more rounds down the bore? I thought there was an accurate shooter article stating as much? </div></div>
I haven't seen that article but will tell you this. My benchgun with 105 rounds on the barrel with out cleaning last time out averaged a .177 for group size at a 100 yards. I have the targets to prove it hanging in my office.
I also feel some of the benchrest shooters (6ppc) pull they're barrels to early in round count/barrel life.
I also feel more damage is done from improper cleaning than anything else. When I see a shooter cleaning his barrel like he is working on a clogged kitchen sink I don't get a good feeling. I've seen it more than I care to admit.
I tell guys this as well. Know your gun. It will tell you want it wants and how it needs to be taken care of.
You might find in the early stages of round count on the barrel (depends on caliber) and for arguments sake lets say it's a .308win. You might find the gun will go 400 rounds with out cleaning and have no loss in accuracy.
As the barrel gets rounds on it (round count goes up) and just to pick a number out of the air lets say your at 3500 rounds. You might find the barrel won't go 400 rounds between cleanings. Lets say it's 250 rounds.
As the barrel wears fouling will go up. The bore is getting rougher etc...no way around it.
About 5 or 6 years ago one of the Palma team members barrel had over 2500 rounds on it (.308win.). He had a problem with the cleaner he was using from what we determined. He got so scared to clean the gun he didn't clean it for around 400 rounds. I forget the exact round count. He went to a long range match (800, 900,1000 yard) and out of a score of 450-45x's he shot a 445-with 20 some x's for record. Then he finally cleaned the barrel.
Just because the guy down the street cleans his gun differently than you doesn't mean he is doing it better etc...As long as you are not damaging the gun/barrel who cares. Use the method you are comfortable with and just pay attention to your gun. It will tell you what it needs.
later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
See that is why I use Bartlein Barrels,
Keeping it real,
See that is why I use Bartlein Barrels,
Keeping it real,
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I also use Bartlein barrels. I dont have the oney to take a barrel off at 400 rounds nor does ost of the benchrest crowd. A few do, and thats fine because ill buy them up and shoot them. I can usually figure about 1500 copetative rounds before i set back or take off and retire. I have had barrels that didnt need cleaned very often. heck some would go over 100 rounds easy. However in the game i play 1st and 10th place can be seperated by .030 so i do everything i can to get the best agg possible. Lots of folks might think benchrest is an easy or lazy shooting game, but i asure you it is not. Matter of fact, short range benchrest is extreamly difficult. We shoot for an aggregate. that means for two days and 20 5 shot groups you cant make a single mistake, or you loose, and you will loose!!! So a clean barrel is just part of it, after all if care is taken there is nothing to loose by cleaning it. One guy said the cheical will damge the barrel, maybe but if i dont have a copper issue i dont use those types of cleaners. I will just use good old Butches or even some Hoppes 9. Those cleaners will not damge a barrel. Another fella said something about bore guides, goes without saying. Shit, i wish i had a Dollor for every time i see someone cleaning there rifle with out one. Not everyone uses them, and even more folks dont use a good one that actually works. One last thing, and again this may not matter to some. I have my own range and i shoot at least 200 rounds a week. If you dont clean your barrels regularly and even often you will get a carbon ring. SOme powders are worse than other of course. If you get a carbon ring and your an accuracy nut like myself, and you go after that carbon ring for about 3 hours and you still cant get it out. You will start cleaning your barrel a little more often. Barrels arent cheap, and we spend a ton of hard earned cash on our rifles, so treat your barrel properly, and clean it, but do it properly and all will be well!! If you dont have a copper problem dont use harsh copper busting chemicals. Just make sure you get the carbon and powder fouling out!! Lee
I also use Bartlein barrels. I dont have the oney to take a barrel off at 400 rounds nor does ost of the benchrest crowd. A few do, and thats fine because ill buy them up and shoot them. I can usually figure about 1500 copetative rounds before i set back or take off and retire. I have had barrels that didnt need cleaned very often. heck some would go over 100 rounds easy. However in the game i play 1st and 10th place can be seperated by .030 so i do everything i can to get the best agg possible. Lots of folks might think benchrest is an easy or lazy shooting game, but i asure you it is not. Matter of fact, short range benchrest is extreamly difficult. We shoot for an aggregate. that means for two days and 20 5 shot groups you cant make a single mistake, or you loose, and you will loose!!! So a clean barrel is just part of it, after all if care is taken there is nothing to loose by cleaning it. One guy said the cheical will damge the barrel, maybe but if i dont have a copper issue i dont use those types of cleaners. I will just use good old Butches or even some Hoppes 9. Those cleaners will not damge a barrel. Another fella said something about bore guides, goes without saying. Shit, i wish i had a Dollor for every time i see someone cleaning there rifle with out one. Not everyone uses them, and even more folks dont use a good one that actually works. One last thing, and again this may not matter to some. I have my own range and i shoot at least 200 rounds a week. If you dont clean your barrels regularly and even often you will get a carbon ring. SOme powders are worse than other of course. If you get a carbon ring and your an accuracy nut like myself, and you go after that carbon ring for about 3 hours and you still cant get it out. You will start cleaning your barrel a little more often. Barrels arent cheap, and we spend a ton of hard earned cash on our rifles, so treat your barrel properly, and clean it, but do it properly and all will be well!! If you dont have a copper problem dont use harsh copper busting chemicals. Just make sure you get the carbon and powder fouling out!! Lee
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
This is interesting. I always do a quick cleaning after each range outing. I usually runa few patches with Hoppes then a dry one to get the residue out.
This is interesting. I always do a quick cleaning after each range outing. I usually runa few patches with Hoppes then a dry one to get the residue out.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
None of you that don't clean very much have never had an issue with pressure?
None of you that don't clean very much have never had an issue with pressure?
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
More rifle barrels are 'phucked up' by so-called 'cleaning' than rounds thru the bore!!
More rifle barrels are 'phucked up' by so-called 'cleaning' than rounds thru the bore!!
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308mk4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">None of you that don't clean very much have never had an issue with pressure?</div></div>
Accuracy usually drops off before pressure issues arise.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308mk4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">None of you that don't clean very much have never had an issue with pressure?</div></div>
Accuracy usually drops off before pressure issues arise.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I did the whole clean it every time you use it, and I got it to where I was getting white patches out. After reading stuff on here, I'm gonna go with the "don't clean it unless it needs it" method. Hopefully I didn't mess mine up too bad.
I did the whole clean it every time you use it, and I got it to where I was getting white patches out. After reading stuff on here, I'm gonna go with the "don't clean it unless it needs it" method. Hopefully I didn't mess mine up too bad.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I ask because I had a wildcat ar upper that I could not seem to get brass to last past two maybe three firings before primes would fall out. First shot was foreforming. I sent it back to the guy and he said the throat was fouled up. I cleaned the snot out of it. Even when I got it back from maker and him cleaning it, same result. Different powders, primers , charge weights , same thing.
I ask because I had a wildcat ar upper that I could not seem to get brass to last past two maybe three firings before primes would fall out. First shot was foreforming. I sent it back to the guy and he said the throat was fouled up. I cleaned the snot out of it. Even when I got it back from maker and him cleaning it, same result. Different powders, primers , charge weights , same thing.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I got my AE MKIII in mid March and it has about 1700 rounds on the barrel (308win). I ran 1 dry patch through when i got it to make sure "travel/shipping dust" was gone. The 1st cleaning was at 777 rounds. This cleaning consisted of 1 wet patch of Butch's bore shine and then about 4 or 5 dry patches.
I cleaned it because i thought accuracy was possibly suffering ever so slightly. I'm talkin about going from a solid 3/8moa rifle to 1/2moa. I had a match that weekend and didn't want accuracy to drop off during the match as i approached 800 rounds. I've read on here that Lowlight has seen 308's go 1000-1500 rounds before noticeable accuracy loss.
My next cleaning was at 1499 rounds. This consisted of 1 wet patch, then a couple scrubs with a nylon brush, then dry patch it out.
My custom rifle i shot before my AE had the same treatment and the results were the same.
I do not have experience shooting a 260 or 243 for that many rounds. But i have been told that due to their more overbore nature, it is best to clean them more often, say every 300-500 rounds. Magnums as well because there is just more powder going through a smaller hole.
I got my AE MKIII in mid March and it has about 1700 rounds on the barrel (308win). I ran 1 dry patch through when i got it to make sure "travel/shipping dust" was gone. The 1st cleaning was at 777 rounds. This cleaning consisted of 1 wet patch of Butch's bore shine and then about 4 or 5 dry patches.
I cleaned it because i thought accuracy was possibly suffering ever so slightly. I'm talkin about going from a solid 3/8moa rifle to 1/2moa. I had a match that weekend and didn't want accuracy to drop off during the match as i approached 800 rounds. I've read on here that Lowlight has seen 308's go 1000-1500 rounds before noticeable accuracy loss.
My next cleaning was at 1499 rounds. This consisted of 1 wet patch, then a couple scrubs with a nylon brush, then dry patch it out.
My custom rifle i shot before my AE had the same treatment and the results were the same.
I do not have experience shooting a 260 or 243 for that many rounds. But i have been told that due to their more overbore nature, it is best to clean them more often, say every 300-500 rounds. Magnums as well because there is just more powder going through a smaller hole.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308mk4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ask because I had a wildcat ar upper that I could not seem to get brass to last past two maybe three firings before primes would fall out. First shot was foreforming. I sent it back to the guy and he said the throat was fouled up. I cleaned the snot out of it. Even when I got it back from maker and him cleaning it, same result. Different powders, primers , charge weights , same thing. </div></div>
Sounds like you've got yourself a jacked-up barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308mk4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ask because I had a wildcat ar upper that I could not seem to get brass to last past two maybe three firings before primes would fall out. First shot was foreforming. I sent it back to the guy and he said the throat was fouled up. I cleaned the snot out of it. Even when I got it back from maker and him cleaning it, same result. Different powders, primers , charge weights , same thing. </div></div>
Sounds like you've got yourself a jacked-up barrel.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I think a lot of this depends on what kind of barrel you are talking about.. I have seen the inside of many factory barrelr and the inside of many preimum barrels. and let me tell ya.. theres no doubt about it my factory remington 26"sps 243 coppers up so bad, it falls on its face after 70 rounds or so. on the other hand my Remington 700 in .308 with a hart preimum barrel can go around 300 rounds before accuracy is greatly degraded.
but i will note " accuracy " is a relitive term, both my premium barreled 308 and my factory 243 are retarted accurate for the first 30 rounds after cleaning, now my 308 remains sub MOA near half out to 700 yards up to about 250 rounds. while after 70 rounds out of the factory remington 243 barrel goes ape shit.
I'll tell ya what is key if you care "how clean" your barrel is... access to a bore scope. if you have 5 custom guns at an average of $4500 each, then $800 for a bore scope is a good investment.
me: JB, Kroil, shooters choice.
I think a lot of this depends on what kind of barrel you are talking about.. I have seen the inside of many factory barrelr and the inside of many preimum barrels. and let me tell ya.. theres no doubt about it my factory remington 26"sps 243 coppers up so bad, it falls on its face after 70 rounds or so. on the other hand my Remington 700 in .308 with a hart preimum barrel can go around 300 rounds before accuracy is greatly degraded.
but i will note " accuracy " is a relitive term, both my premium barreled 308 and my factory 243 are retarted accurate for the first 30 rounds after cleaning, now my 308 remains sub MOA near half out to 700 yards up to about 250 rounds. while after 70 rounds out of the factory remington 243 barrel goes ape shit.
I'll tell ya what is key if you care "how clean" your barrel is... access to a bore scope. if you have 5 custom guns at an average of $4500 each, then $800 for a bore scope is a good investment.
me: JB, Kroil, shooters choice.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
It was a Krieger.It made me feel defeated, and a whole bunch of cash lost too. I ended up selling it and giving the ol 700 a face lift. Shoots great. Yes , I probably clean to much.
It was a Krieger.It made me feel defeated, and a whole bunch of cash lost too. I ended up selling it and giving the ol 700 a face lift. Shoots great. Yes , I probably clean to much.
Re: Can you really ever get a bore clean?
I'm pretty much finally reaching sync with LL on this. While I do still clean after every outing (typically a minimum of 50rd), the intent and effort are not about <span style="font-style: italic">eliminating</span> fouling as much as they are about <span style="font-style: italic">maintaining</span> it.
I think some remains after each cleaning, and that's not a bad thing. My approach is somewhat similer to the Black Powder shooters' process of "seasoning" a M/L's bore.
My cleaning consists of filling the bore with Outer's Gunslick Bore Cleaning Foam, waiting 1/2 hour to 1 hour, then patching the bore until dry. I repeat this once. The last patches come out dry, and still somewhat lightly smudged with gray.
Then I apply a significant bore oil coating, wait a few minutes and run a dry patch or two back down the bore to reduce the oil deposition to a moderately light, even coating.
Before shooting, sometimes I patch it out, sometimes I don't. After 2-3 sighter/fouler/warmup shots, I doubt there's any difference inside the bore either way.
Greg
I'm pretty much finally reaching sync with LL on this. While I do still clean after every outing (typically a minimum of 50rd), the intent and effort are not about <span style="font-style: italic">eliminating</span> fouling as much as they are about <span style="font-style: italic">maintaining</span> it.
I think some remains after each cleaning, and that's not a bad thing. My approach is somewhat similer to the Black Powder shooters' process of "seasoning" a M/L's bore.
My cleaning consists of filling the bore with Outer's Gunslick Bore Cleaning Foam, waiting 1/2 hour to 1 hour, then patching the bore until dry. I repeat this once. The last patches come out dry, and still somewhat lightly smudged with gray.
Then I apply a significant bore oil coating, wait a few minutes and run a dry patch or two back down the bore to reduce the oil deposition to a moderately light, even coating.
Before shooting, sometimes I patch it out, sometimes I don't. After 2-3 sighter/fouler/warmup shots, I doubt there's any difference inside the bore either way.
Greg
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