Canada and semi-auto questions...

c1steve

c1steve

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May 16, 2010
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#1
I plan to move to B.C., and am somewhat confused by their regulations on semi-auto rifles. I have done extensive reading on this, but still have questions.

It appears that if the rifle is auto-loader and barrel is 18.5" long, the firearm would be unrestricted. Also, apparently some black rifles can be imported but have restricted use and are limited to 5 round mags.

Any recommendations?
 
#3
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

I just learned that variations of the Colt AR-15 are legal but restricted. This means they may be kept at home and shot at a range. Only 5 round mags are used. Not sure why these are okay and many other brands are not...

The POF is not listed, so may also be legal but restricted. The FNAR you mentioned appears to be distinct from the FN-LAR which is prohibited (below). So perhaps the FNAR may be legal/restricted as well.

These are fully prohibited:
The firearm of the design commonly known as the FN-FAL (FN-LAR) rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the FN 308 Model 44, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Competition Auto, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Heavy Barrel 308 Match, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Paratrooper 308 Match 50-64 and FN 308 Model 50-63.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/rp-eng.htm
 
#5
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

Sig 550? Surprising...there is a bit to learn here.

It appears that assault looking rifles, such as AR-15 variants, will be restricted. Other semi's will be fully legal, but need 5 round mags.

Do you know if the Sig 550 is restricted or unrestricted?
Also, I am looking for something in 308.

-Steve
 
#6
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

From my reading when I travelled thru, most military style semi auto rifles are prohibited, you are commiting a serious offense possesing them.

"•The firearm of the design commonly known as the M-16 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the:.."

Tells me the POF would be ok, but restricted, which is a PITA as I understand it.

The firearm and ammunition laws in Canada seem pretty ridiculous in general, from the stand point of a US citizen.
 
#7
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpine 338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a SIG550 up there, and that's what I'd be buying if I were in your shoe's. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c1steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sig 550? Surprising...there is a bit to learn here.

It appears that assault looking rifles, such as AR-15 variants, will be restricted. Other semi's will be fully legal, but need 5 round mags.

Do you know if the Sig 550 is restricted or unrestricted?
Also, I am looking for something in 308.

-Steve </div></div>

The Sig550, unlike an AR, is unrestricted up in Canada, which means you can hunt with it and aren't restricted to shooting it at a range. However, even though ARs are restricted you can own short barreled ARs without a class 3 permit.

Also you can own class 3 shotguns up there with out a special permit. If you're moving to Vancouver get in contact with Dlask Arms Corp they make a really neat 870 with an 8.5 inch barrel - make's a good camp gun which you'll need because BC is big bear country. Dlask also make all Canadian made ARs and 1911s.

Dlask.jpg
 
#8
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

ok so here is some short hand knowledge, but dont take it for the rule of the law.

we have three cantagories for fire arms

non restricted- shotguns with a 18.5 and longer barrel, bolt action rifles with a 18.5 barrel, you can own these and hunt with them.

restricted- pistols. most semi auto rifles ( and especially anything AR based). rifles with shorter then 18.5 barrels. shotguns shorter than 18.5. You can own these but can ownly be fired at a proper gun range.

prohibited. everything else machine guns, and certain rifles that the government doesnt like. you cant get these anymore unless you have a grandfathered license to do so, or a collecter, that has them rendered
inoperable.

Heres where things get odd. There a small hand full of semi auto rifles that are non-restricted.
XCR
m14/ m305
FNAR
hk sl8
some cz 858
sks
Tavor
mini14
RFB

So it seems there isnt much ryhm or reason on which get restricted and wich dont.
 
#9
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uncledillers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
non restricted- shotguns with a 18.5 and longer barrel, bolt action rifles with a 18.5 barrel, you can own these and hunt with them.

restricted- pistols. most semi auto rifles ( and especially anything AR based). rifles with shorter then 18.5 barrels. shotguns shorter than 18.5. You can own these but can ownly be fired at a proper gun range.

</div></div>

You can own unrestricted shotguns that have barrel lengths less than 18.5 inches. The one posted above has an 8.5 inch barrel and is unrestricted. The classification is based on the overall length, from the butt to the muzzle, I believe.
 
#10
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

The FN AR is built like a hunting rifle. Nothing like the FAL. Has pistol grip 20 inch barrel. 5 round mag. Has the ability for 20 rounders. Kinda of hard to explain it. I can almost bet it would be legal. If not the Winchester would be. They are exactly alike. A buddy has one for coyote hunting. It is accurate. The AR in the name stands for automatic rifle. Back in the day it wouldn't have been restricted under the assault weapons ban.
 
#11
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You can own unrestricted shotguns that have barrel lengths less than 18.5 inches. The one posted above has a 8.5 inch barrel and is unrestricted. The classification is based on the overall length, from the butt to the muzzle, I believe. </div></div>

Like I said, not the rule of the law. Iam not a shotgun guy, theres probably all sorts of rule in regards to lengths, ammo tubes ect.

and another thing to note is, if its semi auto rifle, it has to have the mag pinned to only allow 5 rounds
 
#13
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

Canada's simple/short list

Non-semiauto rifles (pumps and bolt action) need to be 26" OAL with a factory manufactured barrel to be NR (non restricted)

Semi auto center fire rifles are limited to 18.5" barrels or longer and limited to a 5rd rifle mag or 10rd pistol mag (AR types are restricted regardless of length or caliber)

Rimfires are 26" OAL to be non restricted. With a factory manufactured barrel (cannot cut a barrel down below 18-18.5" on anything)

Restricted stuff is AR tpes and pistols and under 26" OAL stuff

Prohib is by name and listed on the goverment CFC site. AK's FN's etc.

I have a 12.5" Rem 870 NR and a Krinker 10/22 with a 8.5" barrel that is non restricted(NR) and a sub 18" bolt gun as well that is NR (measures just over 26" when folded up)

Robertson arms makes a NR semi in 308
wink.gif
 
#14
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

Besides the different classifications of firearms, you will also have to obtain a license.This will enable you to possess and acquire firearms, restricted and non restricted.You won't be able to import any of your current firearms without the license.The good news is that the long gun registry is on its way to the grave yard.

The SIG 550 I believe is a prohib, however the Swiss Arms PE-90 is available in different barrel lengths, with the 20" version being non-restricted, and anything less that 18.5" being restricted.

Check out CanadianGunnutz.com and some of the vendors(aka dealers) and you will see what's available and what's not.Join the site if you like,lots of good folks and info.
Good Luck.


 
#15
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

I understand that there are a few HK mp7's floating around??(please someone correct me if I am wrong)...which to me would be the holy grail-I don't have a single use for one, but that pride of ownership would be pretty sweet while I could get ammo.
 
#16
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">snip...
The firearm and ammunition laws in Canada seem pretty ridiculous in general, from the stand point of a US citizen.
</div></div>

The firearm and ammunition laws in Canada seem EXTREMELY ridiculous to Canadian shooters!!
 
#17
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OinCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand that there are a few HK mp7's floating around??(please someone correct me if I am wrong)...which to me would be the holy grail-I don't have a single use for one, but that pride of ownership would be pretty sweet while I could get ammo. </div></div>

There are a few HK guns in Canada, but they command a premium at the "check out" the MP7 is around $10,000 to 15,000.The druthers is that its limited to a 5rd mag.

The AR platform is by far the most economical, with lots of accessories and the ability to use a 10 rd "pistol" mag.

The architects of Canadian gun control were clever as they had firearms prohibited by action type so that guns like the HK and its variants would never be able to be imported.
 
#18
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mildot326</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OinCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand that there are a few HK mp7's floating around??(please someone correct me if I am wrong)...which to me would be the holy grail-I don't have a single use for one, but that pride of ownership would be pretty sweet while I could get ammo. </div></div>


The AR platform is by far the most economical, with lots of accessories and the ability to use a 10 rd "pistol" mag.
</div></div>

Tell me about this 10 round pistol mag, that will work in an AR? Sounds like an interesting solution.

-Steve
 
#19
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

The FNAR, mentioned several times here, is starting to look very good...It is fully legal, has accessory rails, can use short and long mags.

The FNAR-H would be best, heavy barrel.

Thanks to Smith44699 and others for this recommendation.
 
#20
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mildot326</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The SIG 550 I believe is a prohib, however the Swiss Arms PE-90 is available in different barrel lengths, with the 20" version being non-restricted, and anything less that 18.5" being restricted.
</div></div>

SIG550, SIG PE90, it's all in the name. They actually call it the Swiss Arms Black Special, because it's usually black, but you can get them in just about any color up there. The Shooting Edge at one time was the sole importer of this series into Canada. They are located in Calgary, and can help you with what you're looking for. At one time they had a very good website, but last time I looked, it was kind of hard to navigate around it. Just Google it and you'll have the info.
 
#21
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The firearm and ammunition laws in Canada seem pretty ridiculous in general, from the stand point of a US citizen. </div></div>

The good thing about Canada is that the firearms laws are federal, the same rules apply across the country. Here we have federal, state, county and city laws that vary wildly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. What's legal in one state is not in another. Our gun laws are a minefield by comparison.
 
#22
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me about this 10 round pistol mag, that will work in an AR? Sounds like an interesting solution.</div></div>

In Canada a magazine is classified as a rifle or pistol. In the case of the AR, there are 10rd mags made as pistol mags for the RRA pistol AR's since the mag is stamped as a pistol mag it can hold 10rds, and it can work in a regular AR.


asc-lar15-223-10_1.jpg

Questar's 10 Round LAR-15 'Pistol' Magazines fit all standard .223/5.56 AR Rifles and Pistols...

Classified by the RCMP as 'Pistol Magazines' they are manufactured exclusively for Questar by Ammunition Storage Components (ASC) using the same drawings, dies, etc. previously used by our last supplier, and are legal for use in BOTH AR Rifles AND AR Pistols.
 
#23
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

That LAR-15 is a wicked looking pistol. I can see that it is legal in Canada, and will not complain about this law.

s
 
#24
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

Interestingly, i am in exactly the same boat.

i am accepting a job in Vancouver, and have been studying up on the Canadian gun laws.

You may of course already be aware, but anything restricted can only be transported with the written permission of the CFO, or chief firearms officer of the province (i guess there are more than one per province?). you must have an ATT or authorization to transport for every trip to and from two specific locations, ie every trip from your house to an authorized range needs to be accompanied by the written approval of the CFO. they do have an ATT document that can accommodate multiple trips so that you do not have to contact him or her every time you make the trip. but if you take your gun to a gun shop or repair shop, you will need that specific trip indicated and approved as an ATT piece of paper.

i'll take the "mine-field" in the US any day.

not sure how it works if you get stopped while making a detour to the local 7-11 ten miles out of the way...

anyone have experience with that?
 
#27
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

one important thing i have discovered is that the gun you want to bring with you must be classified on the FRT (Firearm Reference Table), which is as far as i can tell unavailable to the public.

this table is for law enforcement to use in forensic work but also includes/sets the Canadian classification of the rifle. if its not on the list, its prohibited and will be confiscated.

but finding out what is or isn't on the list yet has turned out to be a pain, and involves joining the forums that some Canadian law enforcement are on, and asking them to look it up for you. or call the provincial CFO and have them do it.

i want to bring my SCAR 17s in. but it has been in bureaucratic limbo for the last 20 months and has not yet received a classification on the FRT. it will likely eventually be classified as restricted, but as of now, i will not be bringing that rifle with me.
 
#28
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

Just check with the firearms canada (gc.ca) website. All questions can be answered there. In general: Prohibited weapons are things like snubbies, full auto and "assault rifles" although things like the AK and SKS are allowed, I think, if the mags are pinned to 5 rounds.

I suggest if you want to see what is available to the average joe in Canada check out any major gun supplier/store like Lever Arms, etc.

You'll probably be surprised. "Prohibited" means you will never be able to own it unless you already have that class on your License, which you won't. "Restricted" (pistols and some long guns) and "unrestricted" (long guns)... just do the course and you're good to go, subject to criminal records etc.

There are millions of guns in Canada, and people hunt and target shoot all the time. Don't believe all the crap about Canadian laws are totally restrictive. Yes there are rules and yes they continually chip away at what we can own and shoot, but it's not as bad as you might think.

For instance, a Mini-14, or an M1 or SKS are fine, as long as the mag capacity is or has been modified to be 5 rounds or less.

I'm not sure why ARs or FNs are now prohibited other than the fact theat they are considered a military weapon which could easily be re-converted to fire full auto. (???) There was a time not too long ago when I was able to buy FNs and Ars without any issues.. (25 years ago, perhaps?). Anyhow, you can pretty much shoot anything that you want except for full auto and high capacity magazines, except for 22s. You can have a 1022 with a 50 round drum mag. Pistols are restricted to 10 rounds.

Of course in Canada if you need more than one round to put it down, you shouldn't be shooting anyhow... ;-)

Welcome to the True North.
 
#29
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hikenplink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interestingly, i am in exactly the same boat.

i am accepting a job in Vancouver, and have been studying up on the Canadian gun laws.

You may of course already be aware, but anything restricted can only be transported with the written permission of the CFO, or chief firearms officer of the province (i guess there are more than one per province?). you must have an ATT or authorization to transport for every trip to and from two specific locations, ie every trip from your house to an authorized range needs to be accompanied by the written approval of the CFO. they do have an ATT document that can accommodate multiple trips so that you do not have to contact him or her every time you make the trip. but if you take your gun to a gun shop or repair shop, you will need that specific trip indicated and approved as an ATT piece of paper.

i'll take the "mine-field" in the US any day.

not sure how it works if you get stopped while making a detour to the local 7-11 ten miles out of the way...

anyone have experience with that? </div></div>

I think the authorization gets issued automatically with your gun license and it's a blanket permit. I have heard that the new conservative government in Canada is looking to automatically incorporate the transport permit in with the license.

I live just north of NYC and every time I end up having to travel through the city I have to box and lock my guns up in the trunk along with the ammo which has to be stored separately . City rules dictate that you can't even stop to get gas or use the bathroom. The Canadian rules are much more reasonable and accommodating than this.
 
#30
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

Your authorization to transport is pretty much a blanket cover allowing you to transport to and from any approved range, gunsmith or to the border (for travel to the states as long as you have the ATF documents in place). It's tied to your PAL and does not require you to phone or write or anything else. You want to go to the range? Go. Today tomorrow or everyday this year... nobody cares, Just transport the weapons as required and you are required to proceed in a direct route from residence to approved destination... want to stop on the way and buy some ammo? No problem... a coffee? No problem. Once you have that authorization, it's pretty easy-going. Please don't believe all the BS. It just isn't so.
 
#31
Re: Canada and semi-auto questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kinnear_forge</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your authorization to transport is pretty much a blanket cover allowing you to transport to and from any approved range, gunsmith or to the border (for travel to the states as long as you have the ATF documents in place). It's tied to your PAL and does not require you to phone or write or anything else. You want to go to the range? Go. Today tomorrow or everyday this year... nobody cares, Just transport the weapons as required and you are required to proceed in a direct route from residence to approved destination... want to stop on the way and buy some ammo? No problem... a coffee? No problem. Once you have that authorization, it's pretty easy-going. Please don't believe all the BS. It just isn't so.</div></div>

that's good to hear!.
i think when you read about the ATT requirements it sounds allot more severe to your mind's ear. at least it did to me anyway.

here in the US, though, we have a thing where we like to occasionally take our guns that would be "prohibited" and "restricted" in Canada , to a place deep in a U.S. national forest. we set up an environmentally responsible and completely unofficial range. its all completely and explicitly legal. no one knows where it is.. or will be, least of all LEOs. (actually some of us are LEOs).. and that's nice because there is no fee for that practice, and you can creatively drill to your hearts content. as long as it not hunting season and you're there without a hunting license! (and depending on the state), high cap mags are no problem. there is a huge variety of legal simi auto weapons; pistol, rifle and shotgun.

so ideally i would be looking for something just like that in Canada. But with restricted guns you can't take them into a Canadian National forest and fire them "unsupervised".

I hope i am wrong about that.. and i'm just missing something major...

anyway, i lived in California for a long while and had to adjust to some pretty severe gun restrictions, so i am sure, being the law abiding guy i am, that i will adjust just fine to it.
 
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