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Cant decide which ar10 platform
- Thread starter mese341
- Start date
The wait times and uncertainty pushed me to snatch a Savage MSR-10 16” .308 off the shelf. They have made improvements to it from the ones that were assembled with that Blackhawk furniture and standard trigger. They now ship with Magpul MOE furniture and a new, really crisp and light second stage, 2-stage that really surprised me.
The thing is loaded with features.
Small frame (like Colt 901, DPMS GII, Mega MA-TEN SF)
Fluted barrel
1/10” twist 5R rifling, Melonite QPQ finish
Adjustable gas with mechanical advantage, not a tiny set screw
Hard Chrome Bolt Carrier
Sprung firing pin like an Illinois ArmaLite (no light primer strikes or slam-fires)
Dual ejectors
True free float handguard w/ MLOK
Superb 2-stage trigger
A5 RET
7.8lbs before optics
My local grocery store stocks 7.62x51 NATO regularly, and I still have a lot of .308 components from back in the day.
I was out the door for $1509 with tax. Feels like a medium-heavy contour barrel in an AR-15 basically. This is far better executed in production than DPMS’s GII.
Many of you know how I feel about .308 Win, so when you see a rifle that’s good enough to get me to purchase it in a chambering I really had no plans of buying again, it says a lot about the rifle.
I later walked into another LGS and they had 18” 6.5CM versions of the same rifle but with a Realtree hydro-dip pattern. This one is getting Cerakoted. This is the 6th AR-10 that I’ve owned.
The thing is loaded with features.
Small frame (like Colt 901, DPMS GII, Mega MA-TEN SF)
Fluted barrel
1/10” twist 5R rifling, Melonite QPQ finish
Adjustable gas with mechanical advantage, not a tiny set screw
Hard Chrome Bolt Carrier
Sprung firing pin like an Illinois ArmaLite (no light primer strikes or slam-fires)
Dual ejectors
True free float handguard w/ MLOK
Superb 2-stage trigger
A5 RET
7.8lbs before optics
My local grocery store stocks 7.62x51 NATO regularly, and I still have a lot of .308 components from back in the day.
I was out the door for $1509 with tax. Feels like a medium-heavy contour barrel in an AR-15 basically. This is far better executed in production than DPMS’s GII.
Many of you know how I feel about .308 Win, so when you see a rifle that’s good enough to get me to purchase it in a chambering I really had no plans of buying again, it says a lot about the rifle.
I later walked into another LGS and they had 18” 6.5CM versions of the same rifle but with a Realtree hydro-dip pattern. This one is getting Cerakoted. This is the 6th AR-10 that I’ve owned.
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I think a lot of the stuff on the savage is proprietary, hopefully they don't do like Sig and stop making extra parts after a year or two.
I ordered two SP10s back in October. The rifles were complete minus BCGs back in March. Seekins purchased two new CNCs to produce BCGs in house, which got delivered April 27th. And they are currently producing BCGs for all of their backlogged SP10s just sitting there.
There’s a QR code you can scan in the owner’s manual and order replacement parts. I haven’t seen that approach before.
The owner’s manual doesn’t have specific instructions for the MSR-10, particularly the disassembly of the BCG with sprung firing pin, or which direction to turn the gas regulator. The owner’s manual is for an MSR-15.
That’s the only oversight I’ve seen so far.
I have a ER-SHAW AR10 in 6.5 creedmoor. 24 inch SS barrel , with a sightron 10-50X60 scope. It’s a heavy beast but lays theM in there. I just don’t shoot it much. But it is a great shooter with factory ammo. 7/8 groups at 100 yards all day long. I paid $1040.00 new out the door 3 years ago for it. Great gun. Marty
Pull all of your hair out: Build
Super accurate range toy: JP
The most robust combat ready AR10 in the world with quick change barrels that’s marginally heavier than a KAC: LMT.
The lightest combat ready AR10 in the world that’s marginally lighter and far more expensive than a LMT: KAC
Super accurate range toy: JP
The most robust combat ready AR10 in the world with quick change barrels that’s marginally heavier than a KAC: LMT.
The lightest combat ready AR10 in the world that’s marginally lighter and far more expensive than a LMT: KAC
I actually wasn't familiar with it until you mentioned it. Looks like a slight upgrade to their flagship (lrp-07) model. Whether the extra mass in the barrel/handguard mount area can actually shrink groups any noticeable amount is probably debatable but it seems to me the extra mass in this area can only be a good thing. I really dislike the forward assist, though.
This is wisdom from JIG.
For the first AR10, it’s really true that building has lots of risk that you’ll be dicking around trying to get it to run right, seen multiple examples of this.
I have the JP/NF in 6CM and it’s totally reliable and hangs with my bartlein 6cm bolt at 1k. It works. It’s pretty. You’ll be smiling.
That said- If I could do it over I would be tempted to go for the Seekins - Its hard to resist the Seekins value.
My brother or I have owned them all. OBR or HK are the best in my opinion.
JPs are super nice, but still have a competition gun feel and performance envelope, even in their large frame platform. Accurate, but loud as hell with the stock brake and frankly ugly. Very accurate and my #3 pick.
SR-25s are super smooth, but in my opinion are under gassed without a suppressor. We had cycling issues with two of them when they had a few hundred rounds through them. Build quality doesn’t match the price. Decently accurate with the right ammo.
tOBRs and OBRs are soft shooters, extremely accurate, and very, very reliable. This is across 3 of them consistently. They also have the best suppressor setup with their PST switchblock and are gassed properly. Their machining and build quality is, hands down, the best I’ve seen. They were and are all the rage for a reason. This is my personal preference for an AR-10 platform.
LMT MWS is very nice, it’s super reliable, decently accurate, downsides are that it’s heavy and even with the stainless barrel it’s not as accurate as the LaRue or HK. It’s a bit overgassed and I wouldn’t suppress it unless I had a low backpressure can.
HK MR762A1 has exceptional build quality and just has that HK special factor. It’s ridiculously accurate and reliable.
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The aero M5 platform is super easy to get running well, IME.
I've actually build a couple for under a grand with aero upper, lower, handguard, Wilson combat barrels, JP silent buffer system and a couple other splurge parts. That was pre covid though.
Mine are just range toy / hog blasters, but they run 100%.
I quickly learned I have zero interest in anything longer than 16" on a large frame.
Sure KAC, LMT, HK etc are better, but I'd rather spend the extra cash on other things.
If I had to do it over again, I'd probably also consider PWS piston gun, as I only shoot suppressed and that gets messy fast in the large frames.
I've actually build a couple for under a grand with aero upper, lower, handguard, Wilson combat barrels, JP silent buffer system and a couple other splurge parts. That was pre covid though.
Mine are just range toy / hog blasters, but they run 100%.
I quickly learned I have zero interest in anything longer than 16" on a large frame.
Sure KAC, LMT, HK etc are better, but I'd rather spend the extra cash on other things.
If I had to do it over again, I'd probably also consider PWS piston gun, as I only shoot suppressed and that gets messy fast in the large frames.
+1 on JP LRP-07, Seekins SP-10, or GAP-10 (in no particular order)
My only large frame gas gun is a build I did myself and it took a while to get it to shoot to a point where I was happy with it. I had similar requirements as my local club goes out to 600 yards, and a few local matches get out to 800 and 1,000 yards and I wanted something different than the 6/6.5 cartridges. I used M5 receivers, a .308 Win 20-inch Bartlein barrel from Craddock Precision and went with all premium parts: Geissele SSA-E, JP LMOS BCG, JP SCS, etc etc etc. Sure, it can shoot tiny groups now... but it took me maybe 2 years of tinkering. That's just my experience in the range toy, match rifle category. In hindsight, I probably would've gone with a GAP or JP.
My only large frame gas gun is a build I did myself and it took a while to get it to shoot to a point where I was happy with it. I had similar requirements as my local club goes out to 600 yards, and a few local matches get out to 800 and 1,000 yards and I wanted something different than the 6/6.5 cartridges. I used M5 receivers, a .308 Win 20-inch Bartlein barrel from Craddock Precision and went with all premium parts: Geissele SSA-E, JP LMOS BCG, JP SCS, etc etc etc. Sure, it can shoot tiny groups now... but it took me maybe 2 years of tinkering. That's just my experience in the range toy, match rifle category. In hindsight, I probably would've gone with a GAP or JP.
A GAP-10 is a Seekins SP-10 with. Bartlein barrel & Magpul stock. Buy the SP-10 & use the money saved on glass. I just bought a SP-10 not expecting the greatest accuracy and planning on replacing the barrel one day w/ a Bartlein aka GAP-10. I’m getting less than 1/2” groups with the lowest SDs I’ve ever seen including my custom GAP built bolt guns. I used the money saved & am running Leupold 35mm tube Mark 5 HD 3.5x18x44. Most fun rifle I’ve ever owned.
I have a lot of rifles and pistols ... but my LWRCI REPR MKII Elite in 6.5-CM would be the LAST one I would keep if I could only have ONE rifle. It's super accurate out to and through 1,200 yards, eats any ammo, runs clean (piston-gas), and is the talk of the range any time I pull it out of the case. If you've got the money for this premium priced rifle ... I think I'm safe in saying there is NOTHING better in an AR10 anywhere on the market. I absolutely LOVE mine !!!
The only thing I have that's close, is my Barrett MRAD ... that's impossible to find and much more expensive.
I can in no way speak to anything KAC or LMT, as I've never owned one of either. Come to think of it, I've never even had the opportunity to hold either one; pretty much unicorns in this neck of the woods.
I have had a few AR-10's; POF, Spikes, DPMS, Aero. They all ran great, accuracy varied.....
I picked up a REPR MK I a few years ago and I can say that I can't imagine being happier with anything else. It has the 16" spiral fluted barrel and the 4-position gas block. I've got a TBAC CB brake on it and shoot it suppressed almost all the time. Ultra 9. I have never ever had a malfunction of any kind, suppressed or unsuppressed, with any ammo I shoot, which is either M-80, FGMM 168, FGMM 175, or Malaysian L2A2. It shoots half-MOA at 100 yards. It is a bore shooting steel at 600 with 168 GMM, and does a respectable job on my 2/3 IPSC at 1000 yards.
Mine is a side-charger and is super clean to shoot. No gas back with suppressor. Oh, and I wipe the bolt carrier down every Thanksgiving whether it needs it or not. According to LWRC's website it weighs 9.0 lbs. KAC SR-25's weigh either 8.4 or 9.0 lbs according to their website.
I realize new prices on REPRs are steep ( though no where near KAC) but used REPRs often go for under $3K as they never made it solidly into the Tacticool arena. So..... my point is a used REPR can be had with no wait for a decent price, making it a solid choice for the OP. IMHO.
I have had a few AR-10's; POF, Spikes, DPMS, Aero. They all ran great, accuracy varied.....
I picked up a REPR MK I a few years ago and I can say that I can't imagine being happier with anything else. It has the 16" spiral fluted barrel and the 4-position gas block. I've got a TBAC CB brake on it and shoot it suppressed almost all the time. Ultra 9. I have never ever had a malfunction of any kind, suppressed or unsuppressed, with any ammo I shoot, which is either M-80, FGMM 168, FGMM 175, or Malaysian L2A2. It shoots half-MOA at 100 yards. It is a bore shooting steel at 600 with 168 GMM, and does a respectable job on my 2/3 IPSC at 1000 yards.
Mine is a side-charger and is super clean to shoot. No gas back with suppressor. Oh, and I wipe the bolt carrier down every Thanksgiving whether it needs it or not. According to LWRC's website it weighs 9.0 lbs. KAC SR-25's weigh either 8.4 or 9.0 lbs according to their website.
I realize new prices on REPRs are steep ( though no where near KAC) but used REPRs often go for under $3K as they never made it solidly into the Tacticool arena. So..... my point is a used REPR can be had with no wait for a decent price, making it a solid choice for the OP. IMHO.
For those looking at the DIY route, you will have the most success by using all your critical core parts from the same manufacturer who has a well-established reputation for building reliable, accurate rifles and a company that supports their customers.
Right now, the DIY option to beat is the LaRue Large Frame Ultimate Upper Kit. They have 9 different barrel length/chambering combos ranging from 16” .308 up to 22” .260 Rem and 6.5CM.
Right now, the DIY option to beat is the LaRue Large Frame Ultimate Upper Kit. They have 9 different barrel length/chambering combos ranging from 16” .308 up to 22” .260 Rem and 6.5CM.
That larue kit rifle is really nice and runs about 1600ish with their larue lower. No idea on wait time probably 4-5 months.
Right now it's not what do you want but what can you get in a reasonable amount of time.
Right now it's not what do you want but what can you get in a reasonable amount of time.
If you are already familiar with 6mm creedmoor and if you have ammo already it seems like a no brainer to get a 6mm creedmoor large frame ar. I built a large frame 6mm creedmoor with an aero m5 receiver set and a Draco’s barrel and it is a riot to shoot. Very little recoil and consistent 1/2 moa accuracy out to 600 yards so far. Haven’t had a chance to shoot it further yet.
Seekins SP10 build kit if you can find one. If you truly want to try and build one. Actually just give MSTN a call and have him build it for you.
10’s are finicky beasts. If you have AR build experience and the tools, do it yourself with a top shelf build kit. Great recs all over this thread. If you are like me and lack a minimum level of mechanical engineering IQ, make sure that you have top notch (Seekins comes to mind) customer service and engineering behind your purchase, who will identify and correct any/all issues that will occur. Don’t skimp on scope, mount or bipod. Lots of high stress parts in the AR-10 setup, don’t make a mistake on the front end. Looking forward to seeing how your build/buy progresses.
I had a GAP-10 in .308 (Gen 1). I was very disappointed in it for numerous reasons compared to all the hype and finally just got a JP in .260 Rem to replace it. Amazing accuracy and runs flawlessly. I liked it so much I have a JP upper in 6CM being built right now so I can swap back and forth with the one lower I have. But you have to be patient, they are running 6-7 months right now. If you can wait, you will not be disappointed. They were great folks to work with as well, so that was a bonus compared to some other name brands I've dealt with.
Having had both, I would strongly disagree with this. The JP is worth every Penny.
I would agree with this IF the OP is limited to factory ammo only. I haven't seen if he's a reloader or not. If the primary plan is to reload, I would take the 6.5 all day long and 2x on Sunday. I find it's just more pleasant to shoot with the lower recoil and even at the 600 yd range, the 6.5 is better in the wind. And the lower recoil might be a bonus to @mese341 if he has a disability. There's nothing wrong with .308, it's a great cartridge. But I think the various 6.5's are slowly turning the .308 into the .30-06 in terms of obsolescence. And for many of the same reasons.
And if the OP is planning on a build.... make sure you understand the differences in the Armalite vs DPMS pattern uppers and lowers. You can't mix and match. You have to really read the fine print on many of the websites for parts to make sure it's compatible with your build. For this reason, I would suggest you have it built by the OEM unless you have someone to help guide you that has experience with the large frame builds.
Sweet. I'm jealous.
Also, If you reload and already have a 6 CM - maybe think about getting the gas gun in 6 CM as well. Barrel life will be less than the 6.5CM, so factor that into your equation.
They are, there's not really a question about that. The .308 being a NATO round is clutch though and that's another reason I like shooting it. I'm very likely going to go ahead and pick up a barrel for 6.5cm though when I see one in the px for my TL3, then will have both and switch to 6.5cm as I get more comfortable and more set up with reloading. .308 still shoots to more than 1000 very well, and it's a great hunting round.
Just saw one of these POF Rogues at my new favorite LGS yesterday. It was all I could do to not buy it. Had I not bought the MSR-10 a while ago, I would have picked this one up for sure. It was only $1699 too. Feels like an AR pistol, it’s so light. It’s an AR-15 chambered in .308 Win, not an AR-10. That’s not a typo. 5.9 lbs
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I think I handled that same gun at that same store. Terribly tempting. Reviews of the CS and horror stories about inconsistent QC make me nervous. But man that thing is light. May still roll the dice.
reviews are not goodJust saw one of these at my new favorite LGS yesterday. It was all I could do to not buy it. Had I not bought the MSR-10 a while ago, I would have picked this one up for sure. It was only $1699 too. Feels like an AR pistol, it’s so light. It’s an AR-15 chambered in .308 Win, not an AR-10. That’s not a typo. 5.9 lbs
Just got my pof rogue couple weeks ago, 150rds of IMI 150gr and no issues. Installed a Strike flatwire spring. Original plan was to build an ultra light weight but cannot get parts so I gambled on the rogue and now I'm happy I did; very light recoil and trigger good enough for double taps. Shot a Colt 901 back to back..weighs a ton more, recoils a lot more too.
Also purchased a Pof adj gas block but I'm going to return it for a titanium Next intent block ..still waiting on the CGS hyperion to arrive so no rush on adj gas block installation. Eject is around 2-3 o'clock
Also purchased a Pof adj gas block but I'm going to return it for a titanium Next intent block ..still waiting on the CGS hyperion to arrive so no rush on adj gas block installation. Eject is around 2-3 o'clock
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Short barrel 308 under 6lbs and recoil good enough for double taps? cough..bs..
FN SCAR 20S: Out-Of-The-Box Precision
Over-engineered and made battle tough, the FN SCAR 20S offers a superb trigger and great accuracy, as well as a lot of fun.
gundigest.com
24 weeks is still a little conservative. I talked to someone on here who ordered theirs in October and it's still being finished
Agreed. Going all Aero with a mil discount allowed me to build 2 for ~$1,100 each during the COVID environment. For my money, it's either a non-proprietary Aero Precision, or a top tier KAC/LMT/HK, because if I'm going proprietary, I want something with the reliability that gives me confidence I won't have to find their parts for a good long while.
I just read the OP again. Yeah, man. These guys recommending the top-tier stuff are not taking your budget for gun AND SCOPE into account. You can cross the KAC SR25 and HK MR762 off of your list as you're not going to be able to put a reasonable scope on them and remain within your budget. Without some sort of discount, the KAC is going to exceed your budget before you buy any accessories.
The LMT MWS *might* be barely possible if you can get good pricing on them in the old sub-$2,500 range, but at the moment I think you may end up $3k+ range. If you go for a decent mid-tier LPVO like a Vortex Razor HD Gen 2, then you're at ~$1,300 for the scope. Add on some taxes and shipping and you'll hit your cap pretty fast. Hopefully, you're already G2G on Mags, ammo, a sling, other accessories and already like what comes directly on the gun without need for customization.
So, with that in mind, you could pull off a top-tier rifle in the LMT. Alternatively, you could start with the Aero for $1,100-1,300, add the optic, and have ~$2,500 in it to start with, and then mod/accessorize to customize your rifle to your liking. I just recently did both. I looked at/held/shot Savage, M&P, DPMS, Sig, Ruger etc... I was impressed with several, and I especially appreciate the weight-reducing direction designs are headed these days, but when I started reading about the difficulties with parts and long-term factory support for proprietary designs, I decided to steer clear and stick with something that lends itself to easy part replacement across many manufacturers. When the entire industry supports your choice, you can keep your rifle forever. Plus, when you start research each one, you'll find things to knit-pick & consumer issues/common problems. Aero isn't the only non-proprietary game in town but I don't think you can do better in the quality/$ game. I think they're a mid-upper tier manufacturer for low-budget prices.
My answer was to go with both Aero & KAC, but I could have flipped a coin and gone with the LMT instead of the KAC.
great post
I'd build one to be honest because even what people are asking for Aero and the like is absurd. Even on this board, two guys selling SCARs for 4500 when you buy them on gunprime and guns (if I recall from my emails) for 3500. Building an Aero won't be more than 1k in todays mkt depending on the barrel and handguard selection. I just built one from spare parts and added a Centurion Rail and cheap KAK barrel (had 2 others on builds and they are great cheap barrels) and I'm at 1k
I may change the stock to carbine set up with the vltor emod I've got in my bin but then I have to find a buffer and haven't looked for one
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you can definitely build for cheap, or lightweight and expensive (titanium and boutique mfg parts) - for my Pof's proprietary parts I just buy replacements to have...no different than HK MP5/40, HK21 parts..
Brand/model?Just saw one of these at my new favorite LGS yesterday. It was all I could do to not buy it. Had I not bought the MSR-10 a while ago, I would have picked this one up for sure. It was only $1699 too. Feels like an AR pistol, it’s so light. It’s an AR-15 chambered in .308 Win, not an AR-10. That’s not a typo. 5.9 lbs
Thanks
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