Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

[ZLBubba]

I started reloading in '09 after I returned from a deployment to see that 45 ACP was $40/box in Fayetteville, NC. Granted, prices dropped fairly quickly thereafter, but reloading became a hobby within a hobby that I really enjoyed.

For 308 and 7WSM, I've got no issues with my Forster Co-Ax. It's as good of a press as I can really take advantage of. Still, my chances to shoot LR aren't great right now because I'm not in NC anymore, so I shoot more pistol than anything (IDPA, IPSC, etc). For pistol rounds, a single stage just drives me nuts. De-priming 500 cases of 45 ACP, 9mm, 40 takes forever, and that's the first stage in a long process.

I'm thinking it's time to get a Dillon 550B and be done with this one-round-at-a-time nonsense. I know it won't save me any money. I'll probably just end up shooting more.

What are the no-shit must have additions for the Dillon 650XL? I'm thinking the case feeder, strong mount, bullet tray, and casefeeder. Are all these options helpful and reliable?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I bought a 550b back in early '95 for my first press and there's been no looking back.

Chris

 

[turbo54]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I have a 550, 650 and Hornady LnL.

I say don't even consider the 550 unless you really wanna load a cartridge the 650 won't do. A progressive that doesn't auto index is like getting to fuck a playboy bunny but NOT being allowed to get off.

I think the LnL is a better choice between it and the 650. Use snipergoogle and search my name + progressive. I've posted quite a bit about this.

The strong mount and casefeeder are must haves. Bullet tray isnt. No on the roller handle.

I'd get the LnL, and buy a bullet feeder with the money you save over buying the dillon 650. Then you can honestly make 2000 rounds (2+ 50cal ammo cans full) in two 1.5 hour sessions easy.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

To specifically answer your question:

The casefeeders on my 550 and 650 have been very reliable. An occasional jam, but rarely.

The bullet tray can be curtailed by sticking a dinnerplate on top of a box, but it won't look as elegant.

I would prefer to sit while loading, but the strong mount just makes the press so rigid, I use it and stand while loading.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I have a theory, I have witnessed 2-3 pistols blow up in the hands of the shooter, the one thing in common was they all used a 550b, so don't get a 550b for pistol loading, get out of sequence and double charge one and you can kiss your pistol good bye, and if that is all your a lucky MF. I have read over Turbo's stuff on the subject, and ChadTRG42 says the samething, get a Hornadeeee LNL.

 

[dogmessiah]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a theory, I have witnessed 2-3 pistols blow up in the hands of the shooter, the one thing in common was they all used a 550b, so don't get a 550b for pistol loading, get out of sequence and double charge one and you can kiss your pistol good bye, and if that is all your a lucky MF. I have read over Turbo's stuff on the subject, and ChadTRG42 says the samething, get a Hornadeeee LNL. </div></div>

Along the same lines as this post I think the must have for loading pistol rounds is the RCBS lock-out die. It is a little price, but in my opinion worth the money. I have done/still do all sorts of crazy shit that puts my life/limbs at risk of loss, but for $40 or so I will take piece of mind that I have not double charges or squib loads, which can be just as dangerous.

As for the press, I have a hornady LNL that I am very happy with. I have not used the others so I will not comment.

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I have the 550, 650 and the 1050. The 1050 is the best, but the most complicated and expensive of the 3. The 650 is probably the best compromise and the best bang for the buck. I rarely use my 550s.

Get a 650 with case feeder, strong mount, roller handle and the primer and powder sensors and never look back. I havent loaded 45acp in over 5 years as the last time I did a 45 acp run I did 7,500 rounds in one weekend. Yeah, spent a good bit of time at the press, but it was cool to run out of one component with spending more than a weekend of time doing so. Still shooting off that run of ammo.

 

[Explorer]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

Get a Dillon 650 and you will never look back (unless you need the significant volume of the 1050).

 

[Deisel]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I shoot .45 ACP in USPSA matches and have used a Dillon 650 for many years. Very reliable and consistent with a lifetime warranty. I recommend buying from Brian Enos. His website is http://www.brianenos.com/ He can give you a lot of good advice as far as options to get on the 650.

 

[Bayou1535]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I got the 550 and later added the bullet tray, strong mount and bin holder. I have to say that i really like my 550, you could double charge a case but I check everything I do but it still could happen. One thing to consider is that caliber conversions are more expensive and time consuming on the 550. Also after going back and forth between the 550 and 650 for weeks I decided that the the anmount I needed to reload that the 550 would more than suit me. Not once have I wished that I would have got a 650 instead. Check out brian eno's forum, there is a place that explains the difference or which machine would suit your needs. It's a really good read. Not trying to sway you out of a 650 because they are a great machine but check his site out first. Good luck with either one of the Dillon's, you won't be sorry.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a theory, I have witnessed 2-3 pistols blow up in the hands of the shooter, the one thing in common was they all used a 550b, so don't get a 550b for pistol loading, get out of sequence and double charge one and you can kiss your pistol good bye, and if that is all your a lucky MF. I have read over Turbo's stuff on the subject, and ChadTRG42 says the samething, get a Hornadeeee LNL. </div></div>

Along the same lines as this post I think the must have for loading pistol rounds is the RCBS lock-out die. It is a little price, but in my opinion worth the money. I have done/still do all sorts of crazy shit that puts my life/limbs at risk of loss, but for $40 or so I will take piece of mind that I have not double charges or squib loads, which can be just as dangerous.

As for the press, I have a hornady LNL that I am very happy with. I have not used the others so I will not comment. </div></div>

I agree 110% with using a powder check die of some sort, but in a 4 hole press like the 550 it's not practical, I prefer to seat the pills then crimp in a dedicated tapper crimp die. I am planning to buy a basic 550 and mount my Gen 2 Prometheus on top of it, Boss has this setup and can 350 rounds of match rifle ammo with great precision in less than 2 hours.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bayou1535</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got the 550 and later added the bullet tray, strong mount and bin holder. I have to say that i really like my 550, you could double charge a case but I check everything I do but it still could happen. One thing to consider is that caliber conversions are more expensive and time consuming on the 550. Also after going back and forth between the 550 and 650 for weeks I decided that the the anmount I needed to reload that the 550 would more than suit me. Not once have I wished that I would have got a 650 instead. Check out brian eno's forum, there is a place that explains the difference or which machine would suit your needs. It's a really good read. Not trying to sway you out of a 650 because they are a great machine but check his site out first. Good luck with either one of the Dillon's, you won't be sorry. </div></div>

Brian Enos's recommendations were what settled me on my first progressive, my 550.

I also never thought I was in want of a 650 - that is, until I got one. Honestly, It was months before I even set it up. Once I did though, I marveled at how clunky the 550 was, and how much more AWESOME the auto-index was.

These experiences are why I have a differing opinion to Brian. I think you should get the 650, unless you KNOW you want/need the 550.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a theory, I have witnessed 2-3 pistols blow up in the hands of the shooter, the one thing in common was they all used a 550b, so don't get a 550b for pistol loading, get out of sequence and double charge one and you can kiss your pistol good bye, and if that is all your a lucky MF. I have read over Turbo's stuff on the subject, and ChadTRG42 says the samething, get a Hornadeeee LNL. </div></div>

Along the same lines as this post I think the must have for loading pistol rounds is the RCBS lock-out die. It is a little price, but in my opinion worth the money. I have done/still do all sorts of crazy shit that puts my life/limbs at risk of loss, but for $40 or so I will take piece of mind that I have not double charges or squib loads, which can be just as dangerous.

As for the press, I have a hornady LNL that I am very happy with. I have not used the others so I will not comment. </div></div>

I agree 110% with using a powder check die of some sort, but in a 4 hole press like the LNL it's not practical, I prefer to seat the pills then crimp in a dedicated tapper crimp die. I am planning to buy a basic 550 and mount my Gen 2 Prometheus on top of it, Boss has this setup and can 350 rounds of match rifle ammo with great precision in less than 2 hours. </div></div>

What do you mean the LnL is a 4-hole press?? It's 5. Plus, the hole spacing is further apart, which makes the toolhead less cramped than a 650.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I screwed up, I meant 550, I fixed it

 

[scotharr]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I have a 550 but only use it for rifle ammo. I think it is a perfect press for long range rifle ammo, but agree that you can double-charge fairly easily with this press if not paying attention. That is no problem with rifle ammo....just makes a mess when it over-flows. For pistol, you would definitely want a powder check die and the 5-slot 650 seems a better option in this regard than the 4-slot 550.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 550 but only use it for rifle ammo. I think it is a perfect press for long range rifle ammo, but agree that you can double-charge fairly easily with this press if not paying attention. That is no problem with rifle ammo....just makes a mess when it over-flows. For pistol, you would definitely want a powder check die and the 5-slot 650 seems a better option in this regard than the 4-slot 550. </div></div>

Trouble with rifle on the 550, is you can't use the casefeeder!

On my 650, I can pour 500pcs of rifle brass into the feeder,then decap/resize them with one hand in 20 minutes.

Not having to handle/manipulate each individual case by hand is a big nicety.

 

[CaptRob]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

Those of you that use the lnl, how accurate is the powder measurer?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those of you that use the lnl, how accurate is the powder measurer? </div></div>

Totally depends on powder...

Varget is +/- ~.3gr
H335 is +/- .05gr

Most folks would agree the rotating ball type measure (like the LnL) is better than the sliding bar type (dillon).

The LnL measure is nice because it lifts right off - no safety linkage like the Dillon, and no screws to remove.

 

[Bayou1535]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

There is no denying that the case feeder is nice but the choice comes to the output needed or justified. Maybe in 5 or 6 years I will get a 650 but that depends if my amount of reloads icreases. I'm sure the 650 is a fine machine but it comes down to needed amount to be reloaded.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

Well gents, I think you've all made the decision harder than easier. Honestly I doubt I'll go wrong with either the LnL or the Dillon 650. I do want a powder check because of the horror stories I've heard with loading a squib or a double during long pistol ammo sessions. Still, I need to look harder into an LnL to see how it matches my needs.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

If you buy Dillon best advice given was to buy through Brian Enos - he will save you the shipping cost and if you pay by check he will knock off another percent or two.

I saved for 2-3 years and went with an S1050 for my first ever press. I'm not super mechanical and the horror stories of how difficult these machines are I found to be untrue. I load .45 ACP, 30-06, and .38 spcl, coming soon .308.

I absolutely love my case feeder and the sound of loaded rounds falling into the bin with each pull of the handle.

The Dillon powder check saved me a Kaboom caused by my newby eagerness. Best lesson learned - any hiccups on a progressive clear the shell plate, clear the jam, and restart from a clear shell plate. Save the misfit toys to feed into the line at the end of your run.

Regards ammo quality and progressive being incompatible - I shot this 5/31/12 at 200 yds using a Springfield 03A1 with stock mil issue iron sights, barrel date 8/32.

27 rounds fired all in black I dropped 6 points. This using IMR 4895 a stick powder that I continually hear the Dillon will not drop. I modded my powder funnel a little to get there but I'd take these results anyday. This was my first load developement I either got lucky or will be really happy when I start playing around with seating/up and down the powder scale.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

Man, I just de-primed, checked with a case gauge, and re-primed 150 rounds with my Forster. It took me the better part of an hour. No matter what, I'm getting a 650XL or an LnL in the near future.

 

[Deisel]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I deprime and tumble the .45 ACP brass with SS media first. I can load about 100 rounds every 10-15 minutes with the 650.

 

[sic65stang]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

Just got my LNL yesterday, I was so excited until I realized I didnt have the shell plates yet

. Easy to set up so far though, couldnt do much, but looks straightforward.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

On several of the LnL units I've seen, the primer slider has some casting flash/burrs on it, and requires a little sandung for nice/smooth operation.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

for any dillon, the roller handle is a must have, get yourself a bunch of primer tubes also, it sucks to have to stop after a couple hundred rounds to go reload the tubes, I have 10 tubes of each size and can load a 1000 rds without stoping.
a case guage and some good case lube like the hornady one shot.
good luck.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

Look at the Hornady LnL Ammo Plant.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/632863/hornady-lock-n-load-ap-progressive-press-ammo-plant-110-volt

 

[Adam B]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I tried a LNL several years ago (I am sure they are improved now) and had a ton of issues with it, I returned it and bought a 550 and never looked back.

 

[Hookman]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

The Dillon 550B gives you more options if you decide to load LR rifle rounds. I've loaded 1000's of pistol rounds on the Dillon 550 and IF you get a double charge they are easily noticeable and you can make corrections. I have never had a double charge that I did not notice. For my setup for rifle, I use a powder funnel and measure every charge so that I get consistent loads.

I also use a Lee Turret press in single stage mode for FL sizing and de-priming of rifle cases.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

Hookman,

Yeah, I've loaded thousands and thousands of pistol rounds and never double charged a case. I don't mind the lack of auto indexing either, as it allows me to 'reverse' and double check things if I think that there's a problem.

I've had hiccups: powder bridging, primers not seating fully, a stiff linkage, where stopping and checking things out is part of the process.

Loading safe and accurate ammo is on the reloader's head, not the press's.

The 550b is no doubt slower than a LnL/650, but after 17 years, I have my 'process' down pat and that extra 100 rounds an hour isn't going to bother me too much.

I don't think I've ever loaded more than 200 rounds without taking a break, so I'm not the guy needing to fill up a 50bmg ammo can with 9mm in 4 hours.

Chris

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I'm with you both. I have probably 15,000 rounds of 45 ACP pistol ammo loaded with my 550 over the last 10 years - all without a double charge. I know I'm producing fewer rounds per hour than the 650 guys, but I have been known to back things up and take a look at them to verify what I am doing before I make a nasty mistake. Having loaded 45 ACP with a single stage press for years, I love how fast I can do it with the 550.

But, as noted by the guys who have dealt with a double charge or squib load, speed isn't the most important consideration in reloading. I would potentially like to get an add-on automatic bullet feeder though... that is clearly the slowest part of my reloading process.

Even so, I'm certainly in the 250-300 rounds an hour range doing it the "slow" way.

Jeffvn

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I have both the 550 and 650, also a square deal. Never had a double charge in any press. I'm sure I just jinxed myself but, I'm pretty careful. I do not have the powder check, bullet holder, or strong mount. No need unless you think they will help. The strong mount isn't a bad option since it spreads the load over a larger portion of the bench. If the bench can flex, it's passed through the base of the reloader. I solved this issue by adding a 1/2" thick steel plate beneath my 650. Out of the 3, I'd say I use the 550 the least. The square deal is great for pistol cartridges. Over the past 20 years, I've loaded hundreds of thousands of 45 ACP, 38 super, and 38 special with the square deal & 650. No joke. The 650 is a work horse. The casefeeder is reliable as is the whole machine. The customer support is second to none if you have questions or issues. Having the square deal and 650 before the 550 really spoiled me. I find it hard to manually index the 550. You can call me lazy if you'd like. I use the 650 for the 45 ACP, 223, and 308.

 

[Hookman]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pcschwenke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both the 550 and 650, also a square deal. Never had a double charge in any press. I'm sure I just jinxed myself but, I'm pretty careful. I do not have the powder check, bullet holder, or strong mount. No need unless you think they will help. The strong mount isn't a bad option since it spreads the load over a larger portion of the bench. If the bench can flex, it's passed through the base of the reloader. I solved this issue by adding a 1/2" thick steel plate beneath my 650. Out of the 3, I'd say I use the 550 the least. The square deal is great for pistol cartridges. Over the past 20 years, I've loaded hundreds of thousands of 45 ACP, 38 super, and 38 special with the square deal & 650. No joke. The 650 is a work horse. The casefeeder is reliable as is the whole machine. The customer support is second to none if you have questions or issues. Having the square deal and 650 before the 550 really spoiled me. I find it hard to manually index the 550. You can call me lazy if you'd like. I use the 650 for the 45 ACP, 223, and 308. </div></div>

I find it hard to manually index as well, until I put my beer down

Both machines are great! You cannot go wrong with either.

 

[Twitch2120]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

how do you guys do these runs as far as measuring case length? are you sizing separate, measuring, then loading? 7500 rounds in a few days sounds great but the case prep seems like it would have taken a week all by itself.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

At least with 45 ACP brass, after the first couple hundred I stopped measuring cases. They get shorter with repeated firing, not longer. I seem to loose them before they get short enough that it matters.

I put a very slight bell and taper crimp on them, so they don't ever seem to split.

I will periodically (say one round out of every 150-200 rounds) measure a loaded round to see if they are stillin spec. But my 550 seems to be keeping them dead on what I want.

Jeffvn

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I never measure or trim pistol brass. Several weeks ago I discussed this with my father-in-law. He's earned the distinguished award in both rifle & pistol. Over years he has checked a lot of pistol and never found a 45 ACP that needed trimming. We're talking over 40 years of experience reloading. If he doesn't do it, I'm not going to waste my time. Shoot the brass until it cracks or the primers become too loose. One of these things will happen but, it will take a while!

Paul

 

[Hookman]

Re: Can't do the single stage suckfest anymore

I dont trim pistol brass either. Only rifle brass and I use a Giraud trimmer which makes it fun, easy and quick. I even have my 8 year old help me.