Carbine Barrel Advice

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

I have a 1/9 Bushy heavy barrel carbine that is always MOA or better with 69gr SMK & 26gr Varget. I wanted a carbine barrel that would shoot my NM 77gr loads well, but came up short in the accuracy dept with the two barrels I tried. Both are 1/7 twist, one is a DD cut rifled chrome lined M4, and the other is a chrome moly M4 barrel whose make escapes me. Both were on sale at midway. I have since abandoned trying to get MOA performance with the 77gr ammo out of carbine barrels, but would still like another carbine barrel that duplicates the performance of the Bushmaster.
Bushy is backordered on everything, so I am looking at DD hammer forged, or a BCM, or even the 18" barrel that DD makes. Requirements should be chrome lined, 4150 steel, 16"-18", and MOA capable. Anyone getting MOA out of their BCM or DD hammer forged?
I know this question gets asked a lot, and probably belongs over at Arfcom, but I cant register there, and the members here are so much more informative without all the snobery

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

3 things I would ask before you buy a 3rd barrel. What trigger is in your lower? Is the upper these barrels were mounted to free floated w/ a tube or whatever? Do you reload or is this just some ammo you happen to have?

Then again, when you had a 1/7 barrel and were shooting the 77s, did you let anybody else try and shoot a group? And one more, what sights are on this rifle? An Eotech or whatever is nice, but not exactly used for the bench.

I think they can be more reasons why it didn't shoot as well as you think it should rather than the barrels just suck.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Barrels were tested using JP adjustable trigger, YHM lightweight FF handgaurd, Rainier Arms billet upper and handloads consisting of 69gr & 77gr Sierra matchkings, as well as black Hills ammo in the same weight. Optics are a Nikon Buckmaster 4-14x40, Leupy Vx3 6.5-20x40. No one else shot the rifles. If I can do it with one rifle of the same config, then I can do it with the next one.
I've been at this hobby for a while, and have eliminated most, if not all the variables. There are some more subtle variables, such as clamp-on vs. set screw gas blocks, & out of spec upper receivers with sloppy barrel extension fit, but I think that a barrels' inherent accuracy will reveal itself to some degree before these hair splitting measures need to be taken. I couldn't print a 2moa 5 shot group with either barrel.
Again, anyone out there got some experience building with the Daniel Defence or BCM barrels?

 

[MJPLEO]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #000099">I haven't been let down yet by any of White Oak Armament or Rainier Arms barrels. I've been doing some mild to wild builds lately and have been using barrels from Rainier Arms on nearly every one of them. They are all better than MOA with the heavies. Neither are chrome lined but that's probably adds to their accuaracy. I have never had a failure to feed or extract from either brand of barrel.

Just my .02,
Matt</span></span>

 

[hk dave]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Just to add, not sure if this matters to you, but the DD 18" barrel is next to impossible to get right now... extremely backordered. Might matter in your decision making.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

It wouldn't matter if it was backordered, as long as I could get an ETA. I can't find much info on the 18" DD barrel. They must have some good qualities if they are hard to find, right? Still, any opinion , good or bad, would be appreciated here. I can get, and have, accurate stainless barrels.

 

[BCP]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

I had an 18" chrome lined sabre barrel. It was decent, MOA on a good day.

If you want accuracy a stainless 1:8 twist is your best bet though.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Rainier has Noveske and WOA 16" SS tubes in stock. You can't go wrong with either.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Did I mention that I have stainless? I love them. They are very accurate, but I shoot A LOT, and enjoy a particular comfort, real or imagined, from beating the living piss out of a chrome lined barrel. My search continues, and I am now semi-interested in the DD 18" chrome lined barrel, probably just because they can't be had right now. Anybody got one? How does it shoot?

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Matt, when building for ultimate accuracy, I usually stick with stainless. Of course, I've seen more than a couple of chrome lined barrels shoot MOA with a load that they liked, stainless barrels usually offer a higher chance of success. The only chromelined barrels that I know of that are consistently MOA or better are the Pac Nor barrels.

There is also another downside to consider. Just because you ge a 1:8 or 1:7 twist barrel, it isn't going to mean that your barrel is necessarily going to shoot its best with heavy bullets. You're just playing the odds.

In any case, I like shooting the heavy 77s too. My standard load was around 24gr of RL15 with a Lake City case and Sierra bullet. The best luck that I had with an inexpensive barrel was with a Bravo Company SS410 16". What impressed me the most about the barrel wasn't so much that it was able to shoot tiny groups (because it didn't), but that it would shoot solid MOA groups and continue to shoot them no matter how hot I got it in use. I never did mag dumps, but I shot as I pleased and never concerned myself with cooling the barrel.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Thanks TonyAngel. That's all I was looking for. Wow, I didn't know that Pac-Nor had a CL offering. There's gotta be some more success or failure stories out there on Daniel Defence or BCM barrels. I still would like to hear how that 18" DD shoots.

 

[branson1369]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Lots of folks I shoot with run the White Oak with great results

have aRock 5R in my AR 10 that I had customized for me thats a true one holer sub 1/2 MOA rifle (when I do my job). I have had him do 9 others for my customers and all feedback is the same. Cost is much more to go that route but I belong to the buy once cry once clan

 

[edwin907]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Pretty hard to find a CL barrel with the accuracy potential of a SS Match barrel. I never did, but I'm sure it's out there, somewhere.
My Douglas and Krieger SPR profile SS 18" barrels are both winners, and I have a lightweight profile mid-length SS 16" 1/7 Krieger (OPS 12th profiled) that is outstanding with 77gr ammo.
Buy once, cry once!

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

WHite Oak are the bomb. I have used 4 of them, all of them shot 1/2 moa or better. 3 16s and 1 18". Fantastic IMO.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Sorry, when I mentioned the chromelined Pac Nor barrels, I should have made something clear. As far as I know, the Pac Nor chrome lined barrels are sold exclusively through Noveske. I do believe that PKFirearms sells the barrels by themselves, but in all honesty, if I were going to spend that much on a barrel, I'd just get a good stainless. I'd go Krieger.

For something less expensive, it would be either Bravo Company SS410 or Superior Barrels.

I don't want to knock White Oak barrels. I know that they are considered to be a great bang for the buck barrel and many also get great results with them. White Oak barrels are pretty popular among the 3 gun crowd because they are relatively inexpensive, but for the guys chasing small groups, they've been hit and miss.

 

[Stubb]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Monty's chrome lined barrels will get you close: link. I have the 16" barrel in one of my AR-15s and the 12.5" in another. Both are set up with Aimpoints and will do ~2.5 MOA using Hornady TAP Training 77 gr. I was grinning like an idiot the first time I shot the 12.5" at 300 yards and blasted the paint off an 8" plate shooting from prone with the sling. I suspect that they'd get close to 1 MOA using good ammo, sighting, support, and technique.

—Andreas

 

[Todds69]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

I was going to throw the name out there of Superior Barrels, from what I read they seem real nice. I have been personally looking into one myself, but all options are still on the table.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Midway has the DD 18" chrome lined hammer forged in stock. The one review says its 3/4 moa, but I've learned not to put much stock in those reviews. If it keeps the SMK's inside an inch, Im gonna go for it. I also saw Ranier Arms 16" select barrels for $189.00, 410ss 1/8 polygonal twist, 90day guaranty. Both these barrels should have an edge in the velocity dept, being CL or polygonal 3groove.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

I have had excellent groups with my Krieger 18" SPR contour in 1in7. It shoots 62gr and up in the area of 3/4 moa, and it's well under 3/4 moa with 75gr BTHP Hornady. I think in the commercial sales section there are a bunch of Rock Creek 18" SPR barrels up, but they are all rifle length gas blocks.

I was surprised when I purchased a 16" SS medium fluted barrel for my Bushmaster from Model 1 sales. It's a 1in8 twist, and I run 62gr SS109's in it most of the time. At first it was 1.5 moa at best. However, after getting a good 300 to 400 rounds down the tube it tightened right up and it's now shooting 1 moa or better. It shoots 69gr SMKs real well too.You might give Model 1 a look. I hear they are Wilson barrels. I hear that Black Hole is making some very nice barrels as well, and I think they will do just about any kind of barrel contour or twist you want.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had an 18" chrome lined sabre barrel. It was decent, MOA on a good day.

If you want accuracy a stainless 1:8 twist is your best bet though. </div></div>
Well I guess this is as close as we can get. Sabre seems to be having some issues right now, so I think I will have to be the guinea pig on this one. I did find out this morning that The Daniel Defence CHF barrels are 4150 steel. I hope this barrel is a little better than 'MOA on a good day'.
This is last call. . .Anybody? ? Ok. Putting my order in now. Ill let ye all know how I shoot it when it is put together. Good day.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Due to financial constraints, this project has been put on hold, until sufficient funds are appropriated. That being said, the question remains; Has anyone reading this used a DD S2W 18" chrome lined barrel in a build, or know someone who did?If so, could you produce MOA with match rounds, factory or handloaded?

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

Yes, I have used them (DD)in builds, but for light weight tactical carbines.

Can some of them shoot MOA with the right load, yes, but not every DD can, thats the rub.

If you want to get a barrel that absolutly can shoot moa or sub moa then you need to go with a different barrel.

Krieger (Never had a bad one and all will shoot sub moa)
Lilja (I use them a lot and all shoot sub moa and never had a bad one they are a 1-8)
Noveske ( Use them a lot and they shoot the heavier stuff really well, 75 & 77's and all I have used are sub moa cablable and never have had a bad one)

So, if you really want 99.99% probability of getting an moa/sub moa capable barrel you are going to have to go with proven options and stop wasting you money hoping to get barrels not designed or intended to be moa capable to shoot moa groups. The craps tables in Vegas may be a better use of your money.

 

[jn_fsu]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matt, when building for ultimate accuracy, I usually stick with stainless. Of course, I've seen more than a couple of chrome lined barrels shoot MOA with a load that they liked, stainless barrels usually offer a higher chance of success. The only chromelined barrels that I know of that are consistently MOA or better are the Pac Nor barrels.

There is also another downside to consider. Just because you ge a 1:8 or 1:7 twist barrel, it isn't going to mean that your barrel is necessarily going to shoot its best with heavy bullets. You're just playing the odds.

In any case, I like shooting the heavy 77s too. My standard load was around 24gr of RL15 with a Lake City case and Sierra bullet. The best luck that I had with an inexpensive barrel was with a Bravo Company SS410 16". What impressed me the most about the barrel wasn't so much that it was able to shoot tiny groups (because it didn't), but that it would shoot solid MOA groups and continue to shoot them no matter how hot I got it in use. I never did mag dumps, but I shot as I pleased and never concerned myself with cooling the barrel. </div></div>

I'm definately no expert but I'm with TonyAngel on this one... http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Re...8%20ib%20bk.htm
One of the things that makes a difference is the chambering. BCM uses 5.56 NATO Match Chambers (USMC SAM-R Chamber). Noveske uses a similar chambering called 5.56 Noveske Match Mod 0 . Of course theres always the ever so popular Wylde chambering that others use... Just more food for thought.

 

[Tactical30]

Re: Carbine Barrel Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJPLEO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #000099">I haven't been let down yet by any of White Oak Armament or Rainier Arms barrels. I've been doing some mild to wild builds lately and have been using barrels from Rainier Arms on nearly every one of them. They are all better than MOA with the heavies. Neither are chrome lined but that's probably adds to their accuaracy. I have never had a failure to feed or extract from either brand of barrel.

Just my .02,
Matt</span></span> </div></div>

I was going to say the same thing!

WOA = shizznit for AR-15 barrels