Has anyone found a real difference in carbon buildup on the muzzle versus a clean muzzle with a brake? Inquiring mind needs to know!
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Gunsmithing Carbon buildup on muzzle accuracy.
- Thread starter chooter
- Start date
I have never noticed a difference, but the people I shoot with swear it made a difference so I stated cleaning my brakes with lemi-shine and keeping my crown clean.
I've always wondered the same...and have never seen a test done on this- but common sense says it would have to, if severe enough to affect the even dispersion of gas across the face of the crown when the bullet pops out of the bore.
I sometimes get rifles in with brakes where the muzzle is inaccessible for "easy" cleaning- and the customers have neglected to go to the extra trouble to do so. According to them accuracy hasn't suffered- but this makes no sense, given the concern we have about muzzle condition and not even dragging a cleaning brush across the crown.
I sometimes get rifles in with brakes where the muzzle is inaccessible for "easy" cleaning- and the customers have neglected to go to the extra trouble to do so. According to them accuracy hasn't suffered- but this makes no sense, given the concern we have about muzzle condition and not even dragging a cleaning brush across the crown.
I think it doesn't matter, within reason. The reason I believe that is because all sorts of different crown shapes work just fine. As long and the bore is releasing the bullet evenly, thats really the best one can hope for. It does appear that certain muzzle brakes cause different gas flow at the crown, and somewhat uneven buildup. Taken to an extreme, i suppose that could mess with things. That would be thousands and thousands of rounds at least though.
Carbon buildup, whether it affects accuracy or not, is crud. Despicable. I soak mine off with patch/compresses saturated in Hoppe's #9.
Moving on...
Greg
Moving on...
Greg
I've wondered about this also however I've got 2200 rounds on this barrel shooting suppressed and have cleaned the carbon off the crown once. I changed scopes this last week so had to sight it in and it's shooting sub 1/2 moa. If it makes a difference I can't see it.
MPA DN3 brake (newer version) on an MPA in 6.5 Creed shooting mostly mild loads of H4350. Thick (0.1”) chunk of hard baked-on carbon from 5 to 12 o clock position, pressing against the crown.
Probably installed this new brake about 6 months ago, so maybe 500 rounds without taking off the brake. Obviously waited way too long.
Reason/excuse: Have a separate barrel tuner on the gun (which works very well), so i was reluctant to take it off, wondering if when reinstalled it would be in exactly the same spot as before. A tiny change in tuner rotation makes a big difference yo group size. Managed to get multiple groups in the 0.1-0.2” range with 135 Atips after tuning exercise. Recently the gun went back to shooting 0.3-0.5” groups with the same load. Maybe this was the cause... i guess carbon buildup deflected the gas preferentially in one direction.
Question: Have you guys seen this before? How often do you take off your brake? Best way to clean it (eg dunk in CLR)? I used an ultrasonic cleaner, same home made solution i use for brass cleaning, and it worked ok.
Probably installed this new brake about 6 months ago, so maybe 500 rounds without taking off the brake. Obviously waited way too long.
Reason/excuse: Have a separate barrel tuner on the gun (which works very well), so i was reluctant to take it off, wondering if when reinstalled it would be in exactly the same spot as before. A tiny change in tuner rotation makes a big difference yo group size. Managed to get multiple groups in the 0.1-0.2” range with 135 Atips after tuning exercise. Recently the gun went back to shooting 0.3-0.5” groups with the same load. Maybe this was the cause... i guess carbon buildup deflected the gas preferentially in one direction.Question: Have you guys seen this before? How often do you take off your brake? Best way to clean it (eg dunk in CLR)? I used an ultrasonic cleaner, same home made solution i use for brass cleaning, and it worked ok.
rifle shooter did a great write up a few years ago on crown damage effecting accuracy
rifleshooter.com
what they found was the state of your crown could effect POI, but i really doesnt effect group size all that much.
ide imagine the same would hold true for carbon buildup on the muzzle......if a fucked up crown cut with a sawzall doesnt effect group size, i dont think a little bit of carbon will either.
i can say on my rimfire prone rifles equipped with a bloop tube.......ive NEVER cleaned the tube, or the crown......and have never noticed an effect on accuracy.
the inside of the bloop tube looks like a fucking cave with stalactites and shit.....shoots just fine.
Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I find out with the help of my grinder…
Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I think most of use would say yes. It seems intuitive that the crown, the last part of the rifle that touches the bullet before it leaves the…
rifleshooter.com
what they found was the state of your crown could effect POI, but i really doesnt effect group size all that much.
ide imagine the same would hold true for carbon buildup on the muzzle......if a fucked up crown cut with a sawzall doesnt effect group size, i dont think a little bit of carbon will either.
i can say on my rimfire prone rifles equipped with a bloop tube.......ive NEVER cleaned the tube, or the crown......and have never noticed an effect on accuracy.
the inside of the bloop tube looks like a fucking cave with stalactites and shit.....shoots just fine.
rifle shooter did a great write up a few years ago on crown damage effecting accuracy
Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I find out with the help of my grinder…
Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I think most of use would say yes. It seems intuitive that the crown, the last part of the rifle that touches the bullet before it leaves the…
what they found was the state of your crown could effect POI, but i really doesnt effect group size all that much.
ide imagine the same would hold true for carbon buildup on the muzzle......if a fucked up crown cut with a sawzall doesnt effect group size, i dont think a little bit of carbon will either.
i can say on my rimfire prone rifles equipped with a bloop tube.......ive NEVER cleaned the tube, or the crown......and have never noticed an effect on accuracy.
the inside of the bloop tube looks like a fucking cave with stalactites and shit.....shoots just fine.
Amazing photos. Makes your skin crawl.
On your center fire rifles, how often do you take off a brake and clean it? I assume if you never ever clean it, then at some point bad things will start happening!
I am starting to think that dunking the brake plus the last inch of the barrel in CLR might help, and leaving the barrel upright in a tin overnight might help, then take the brake off completely every 200-300 rounds.
Also wonder if an ultrasonic cleaner will do a good enough job cleaning the brake and the crown - without ever removing it...
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on my centerfire guns.....never. once a brake goes on, it doesnt come off unless im changing it for some reason.
ive never really found a good reason to keep a gun "spotless".
Took my brake off to clean my crown right before a match. Thats all i did, took it off, cleaned, put it back. At the match i was off 15" at 400 yds. Couldnt hit shit. The MD took pity on me and let me re zero during lunch. The afternoon session went much better. I'll never do that again.
Good input.
My other brake did not cause a lopsided buildup of carbon. Pretty evenly fouled. This one did not have a symmetrical buildup at all. All on one side, and there was a lot of it.
Will go shoot both rifles, and see what happened to the zero of the two guns.
Will be interesting to see if groups have opened up or not, and if the tuner will need adjustment...
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Caked carbon is hard to remove. As a small engine rebuilder, for years never found anything to work except scrapping away till now. Stens Corporation sells " Carbon Eliminator". It melts carbon in a couple min. I have seen aluminum and steel both shin bright after a simple wipe away.
This is valuable info, thanks for sharing.
I wonder if it will work well in an ultrasonic cleaner? My Hornady cleaner is a little small, maybe it is time for an upgrade.
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Have ordered Stens Carbon Eliminator from Amazonia... will report back once i get a chance to try it. Might just be the ticket.
Have done a quick test: CLR works well to remove carbon from a stainless steel brake and a staiarrel.
But CLR is NOT safe to use on blued Chrome-Moly steel barrels or brakes that have been melonited. It discolures the steel.
So beware: Do not use CLR on any of the blackened steel components. CLR is good for all the shiny stainless steel components.
But CLR is NOT safe to use on blued Chrome-Moly steel barrels or brakes that have been melonited. It discolures the steel.
So beware: Do not use CLR on any of the blackened steel components. CLR is good for all the shiny stainless steel components.
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It is not cheap, comes in aerosol can and has a foaming action.
Erik Cortina posted a video about soaking a stainless steel brake in CLR overnight. Works well. But CLR is not safe for anything except stainless. Ask me how i know that.
Btw i removed the brake and after stripping off a fair sized chunk of hard baked-on carbon in front of about half of the crown, and then putting the cleaned brake back on (as best i can tell at the same thread position), the 100 yard zero changed by 1.2 MOA.
Very much doubt that the carbon removal changed my zero that much. Must have mounted the self timing brake at a different position.... probably one thread less or more than before.
Anybody had the same experience?
Very much doubt that the carbon removal changed my zero that much. Must have mounted the self timing brake at a different position.... probably one thread less or more than before.
Anybody had the same experience?
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