Carrying condition 0 with modern equipment?

[308pirate]

You mean except for all the CZ 75s, P09s, and clones where you can roll with a safety on and still have a firing pin block.

I didn't think I'd have to state the obvious.

Plus I'm sure you know some 75 models don't have a safety and have a decocker instead, and others (Shadows) don't have a firing pin block.

 

[srt-4_uk]

What might be obvious to you is not obvious to everybody. I was just adding clarity to those reading who might not know.

 

[FWoo45]

Personal opinion it’s not a good idea. A Glock or allot of striker fired pistols have more take up leaving room for error in trigger discipline and just somehow bumping the trigger on accident. Two stories come to mind, I believe it was in Lubbock Texas years as go a guy had a 1911 cocked and it fell out of his jacket at a cafeteria and fired hitting some guy in the ass. The second one just made me laugh from my hometown, a guy was going to the john at a restaurant and didn’t want to drop his pants and his gun touch the floor, so he took a cocked 1911 and hung it on the stall jacket hook from the trigger guard. He bumped it upwards in the process. It fired, but the recoil made it keep firing on the hook until empty. I don’t know if there was a guy in the next stall but if there was he traumatized about public johns forever.

What about the grip and thumb safeties? Stories sound like bullshit.

 

[Jgault]

What about the grip and thumb safeties? Stories sound like bullshit.

What about the grip and thumb safeties? Stories sound like bullshit.

Yes no gun has ever gone off being dropped before. Here is the warning that comes with every Colt 1911 70’s series “WARNING: WHEN A ROUND IS IN THE CHAMBER, THIS PISTOL MAY DISCHARGE ACCIDENTALLY IF IT IS DROPPED OR RECEIVES A BLOW. (THIS CAN OCCUR REGARDLESS OF THE POSITION OF THE HAMMER OR ANY OF THE VARIOUS SAFETY DEVICES.) DO NOT PUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER UNTIL THE PISTOL IS IN YOUR HAND AND YOU ARE READY TO SHOOT, AND CLEAR THE PISTOL IMMEDIATELY AFTER SHOOTING.” So evidently you have much more faith in the platform than Colt, and I said depends on the gun. Not to mention not all 1911’s or at least 1911 clones have a grip safety, there are entire forum threads on other sites where people bend the spring to disconnect them.

 

[Snuby642]

What a pita.

Just wrap some electrical tape around it.

 

[zeroz]

If the motherfucker was meant to be carried single action, it wouldn't be a double action. JFC.

 

[FWoo45]

Yes no gun has ever gone off being dropped before. Here is the warning that comes with every Colt 1911 70’s series “WARNING: WHEN A ROUND IS IN THE CHAMBER, THIS PISTOL MAY DISCHARGE ACCIDENTALLY IF IT IS DROPPED OR RECEIVES A BLOW. (THIS CAN OCCUR REGARDLESS OF THE POSITION OF THE HAMMER OR ANY OF THE VARIOUS SAFETY DEVICES.) DO NOT PUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER UNTIL THE PISTOL IS IN YOUR HAND AND YOU ARE READY TO SHOOT, AND CLEAR THE PISTOL IMMEDIATELY AFTER SHOOTING.” So evidently you have much more faith in the platform than Colt, and I said depends on the gun. Not to mention not all 1911’s or at least 1911 clones have a grip safety, there are entire forum threads on other sites where people bend the spring to disconnect them.

I mean the seer can break sitting in a drawer, less likely with quality parts though. If you want to talk about rendering the GS inoperable whether by pinning it, destroying springs, or Novak’s “The Answer,” (all questionable on a carry gun, a libtard prosecutor would love that), that’s a different convo. Just like it would be if I brought up Ned Christiansen’s “Fall Arrest” to argue my point.

I still think that a gun going full bump stock mode on a shitter door is a stretch without something else going on, like carrying it in condition 0.

 

[Yondering]

The only DA/SA operating condition I'm aware of that is functionally like a Glock is the CZ and Tanfo hammer fired guns with a half cock position. That gives you about the same amount of trigger travel as a stock Glock (NOT a "Glock based firearm" with a competition trigger ) and a much shorter pull than full DA. I guess I'd be OK carrying in that condition with the safety off, but I don't carry one of those. The only one I have left is a Tanfo competition gun that is a heavy steel tank and not a carry gun.

But then again, I can't imagine wanting to carry a PPKS these days either; seems like a silly choice with so many better options available. A carry gun is a tool for saving your life; it stands to reason that a thinking man would choose the most effective tool he can get. But I guess some guys are more fascinated by the gun itself and lose sight of what it's actually for.

 

[308pirate]

The only DA/SA operating condition I'm aware of that is functionally like a Glock is the CZ and Tanfo hammer fired guns with a half cock position. That gives you about the same amount of trigger travel as a stock Glock (NOT a "Glock based firearm" with a competition trigger ) and a much shorter pull than full DA. I guess I'd be OK carrying in that condition with the safety off, but I don't carry one of those. The only one I have left is a Tanfo competition gun that is a heavy steel tank and not a carry gun.

Let me set the record straight on CZ DA/SA pistols.....since I compete with and carry them and have dived deep to understand exactly how they work.

Carrying with the hammer on the "half cock" notch is 100% safe. That's where the hammer stops when you press the decocker on any CZ so equipped (75BD, P-01, SP-01 Tactical, P-09, SP-01 Phantom, etc).

Manually lowering the hammer to that notch on a non-decocker CZ is also perfectly safe because that notch is the same on both hammers. The difference between hammers is an additional surface for the decocker to act upon.

All of the above assumes we're talking about CZs with firing pin blocks, so basically anything that isn't a Shadow. I would not carry a CZ without a FPB at half cock. If the hammer slips off that notch on a drop, the pistol is likely to fire.

 

[davsco]

If the gun was meant to be carried single action, it wouldn't be a double action.

pretty much sums it up

 

[Yondering]

Let me set the record straight on CZ DA/SA pistols.....since I compete with and carry them and have dived deep to understand exactly how they work.

Carrying with the hammer on the "half cock" notch is 100% safe. That's where the hammer stops when you press the decocker on any CZ so equipped (75BD, P-01, SP-01 Tactical, P-09, SP-01 Phantom, etc).

Manually lowering the hammer to that notch on a non-decocker CZ is also perfectly safe because that notch is the same on both hammers. The difference between hammers is an additional surface for the decocker to act upon.

All of the above assumes we're talking about CZs with firing pin blocks, so basically anything that isn't a Shadow. I would not carry a CZ without a FPB at half cock. If the hammer slips off that notch on a drop, the pistol is likely to fire.

Agreed. My point was to address the OP’s ignorant assertion that a cocked SA or DA/SA was no different than a Glock.

With the hammer at half cock, pulling the trigger partially cocks the hammer prior to releasing, like a Glock does with the striker. That’s a big part of what makes a Glock relatively safe without an external safety, and is not at all like the OP’s condition 0 bs.

 

[TurboTrout]

Agreed. My point was to address the OP’s ignorant assertion that a cocked SA or DA/SA was no different than a Glock.

With the hammer at half cock, pulling the trigger partially cocks the hammer prior to releasing, like a Glock does with the striker. That’s a big part of what makes a Glock relatively safe without an external safety, and is not at all like the OP’s condition 0 bs.

Oh cupcake… tell me how it’s that different

Another 0.25” of travel, but with over 1 lbs more pull? Both drop safe.


There are differences, but calling my question BS level differences, nooope

 

[TurboTrout]

You do know those are written by lawyers, if they could get away with it they would say to never load it for safety, and install 9 trigger locks.

But yea, it’s drop safe condition 0 due to the hammer block.

 

[Yondering]

Oh cupcake… tell me how it’s that different

Another 0.25” of travel, but with over 1 lbs more pull? Both drop safe.


There are differences, but calling my question BS level differences, nooope

If you’re too stubborn to recognize the differences there, then it’s not worth any further time explaining anything to you.

You aren’t looking for the truth, you’re just looking for validation of your own stupid ideas.

 

[308pirate]

If you’re too stubborn to recognize the differences there, then it’s not worth any further time explaining anything to you.

You aren’t looking for the truth, you’re just looking for validation of your own stupid ideas.

Exactly, he's an idiot.

 

[TurboTrout]

I’m simply looking for the mechanical logic as to why, “it says so” is not a reason any independently thinking man should ever take.

 

[Yondering]

I’m simply looking for the mechanical logic as to why, “it says so” is not a reason any independently thinking man should ever take.

No, you aren’t; that’s already been explained to you multiple times in different ways. You just refuse to accept it.

You’ve proven that you’re not a “thinking man”, you’re a stubborn man-kid looking for validation of your idea.

 

[theLBC]

I’m simply looking for the mechanical logic as to why, “it says so” is not a reason any independently thinking man should ever take.

Aside from more safeties more better, with a proper holster and trigger control is there any reason not to carry a modern hammer fire DA/SA condition 0?

other than you're defeating the inherent safety designed into the da/sa handgun (why external safeties are redundant/unnecessary on them)?

i would say because your question is not specific to any particular da/sa gun. you can have a competition tuned da/sa with an extremely light trigger that most sensible people would not consider safe for carry duty. a striker pistol requires enough effort to compress the spring, where a da/sa requires only enough effort to disengage the sear, and not enough to pop the primer.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Most of the time I do start the press right at the end (or very near the end) of the draw stroke. Sometimes I start the trigger press as I start extending, but that's not what staging is.

Once a DA trigger starts moving it keeps moving until the pistol fires. If your finger stops moving the trigger, it should be because you decided not to shoot.

Staging is pulling almost all the way through the trigger, stopping there, then pressing the last little bit when everything is "perfect". It's a fudd move probably invented by bullseye shooters or old school cops trying to qualify.

Watch this and parts 2 and 3

Thank you for the video.
I shoot a Taurus 92, use it in an entry level USPSA match.
Seems the biggest thinga are, know your gun and practice.
I will be practicing more. Most of the first DA first shot practice can be done with dry firing.

 

[Skeptic1]

It is NOT the same as a Glock.
When a Glock trigger is pull it retracts the striker.
A Glock is Double Action Only.

Huh?

Bull Shit

 

[TurboTrout]

Aside from more safeties more better, with a proper holster and trigger control is there any reason not to carry a modern hammer fire DA/SA condition 0?

other than you're defeating the inherent safety designed into the da/sa handgun (why external safeties are redundant/unnecessary on them)?

i would say because your question is not specific to any particular da/sa gun. you can have a competition tuned da/sa with an extremely light trigger that most sensible people would not consider safe for carry duty. a striker pistol requires enough effort to compress the spring, where a da/sa requires only enough effort to disengage the sear, and not enough to pop the primer.

That PPKS is stone stock 13lb DA 6lb SA, the only tune I had done was to round the beaver tail edges so they don’t dig into one’s hand.

 

[308pirate]

Thank you for the video.
I shoot a Taurus 92, use it in an entry level USPSA match.
Seems the biggest thinga are, know your gun and practice.
I will be practicing more. Most of the first DA first shot practice can be done with dry firing.

Pay attention to how your hands grip the pistol. I remember a video you posted, there was much to fix.

 

[wade2big]

That PPKS is stone stock 13lb DA 6lb SA, the only tune I had done was to round the beaver tail edges so they don’t dig into one’s hand.

I’ll try.

Why is a glock with a 5lb trigger pull riding in a holster more safe to carry than a DA/SA pistol with the hammer cocked back when it has a 6lb SA trigger pull that is drop safe and it also rides in a holster?

 

[Skeptic1]

how can i appendix carry with a shirt tucked in?

Raven

 

[davsco]

That PPKS is stone stock 13lb DA 6lb SA

damn, need to hit the weight room before using that gun! i still hate, at least theoretically, carrying a da/sa gun in sa.

 

[TurboTrout]

damn, need to hit the weight room before using that gun! i still hate, at least theoretically, carrying a da/sa gun in sa.

Shit brah, I’ll get a 30lb trigger and all those “soy boys” what’s up

 

[Snuby642]

Dry fire practice, Dry fire practice, Dry fire practice, Dry fire practice, Dry fire practice, Dry fire practice, Dry fire practice, Dry fire practice,

Did you fuckers not yet enough of that in high school ?

 

[TurboTrout]

Wait….. so then why not just carry in condition 2?

Brah, I’m operator enough I’ll just carry condition 4, if you can’t get round on target in enough time carrying condition 4 you need to practice more