Case life- neck sizing

Butleroutdoors

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Minuteman
Jan 23, 2014
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Good Morning
Question on case life when neck sizing. Shooting 22-250' have 6 reloads on Rem brass. Neck size only, checking primer pockets, trimming as needed and checking pressure belt inside of case (using a pick). Medium loads.

Without annealing, is there a Max number of times one can one reload the cases and you start over with new cases or do you reload till you get split necks?

Wanting to ensure I don't get into any issues
 
Primer pockets and necks are the first to go away. I seat all my primers with a hand primer so I can feel the pressure. If it is too loose, just deprime it and toss the brass. Necks are easy to feel when seating. You are FL sizing every 3 or 4 firings right? You can usually feel the bolt getting hard to close when they need it. Don't oversize them, make em fit your rifle, they will last longer. Also only neck size about 3/4 of the neck when neck sizing, keeps the neck healthy.
 
Hello witchhunter
Yes, I still have good neck tension and on the primer pockets I test a batch by flipping the primers to ensure it will not seat. Have not fls, is that needed?

Also, if I read your post correctly, basically the neck and primer pocket looses tension as the brass is used and will basically render the round unusable b/c will not hold pressure well enough...
 
You will need to FL size at some point, you will notice a hard bolt closing when it is time. you will need to bump the shoulder back. Trim to length, as it will feel the same at the bolt if the case is too long. I don't understand flipping the primers....you should be able to feel a loose primer, when you do, just deprime, save the primer and toss the brass. The primer pocket will get too bog to hold a primer, thus allowing pressure to escape, rapidly, in your face. The necks will probably spilt lengthwise from the mouth, making them unable to provide proper neck tension on the bullet.
Several things can go wrong with brass; necks, primer pockets, separation just above the base, necks get thicker, necks get work hardened needing to be annealed. Does this make sense?
 
Without annealing, is there a Max number of times one can one reload the cases and you start over with new cases or do you reload till you get split necks?

Rescently I ran such an experiment.

I started with a fresh set of 50 count Win Brass 308.
I used a Neck Only sizing strategy most of the time, and would bump the shoulders back 0.002 when they got too long.
I measure the shoulder position before each reload cycle.
I use Redding sleaved dies, a 332 and 338 bushing (338 first).

Procedure:
decap all fired brass
toss in tumbler over night
measure shoulder position
1) if OK toss in reload pile
2) if not toss in push back pile

If there were not enough cases in the reload pile
setup body die
lube
push shoulder back
measure shoulder position
if not OK go back to lube and do it again.
toss in reload pile
Repeat until enough cases are present in reload pile.

Insert primer with Redding universal priming tool over the whole set of caes
throw powder
trickle up to 47.8 gr Varget
drop tube into case
mount bullet
seat to 3.000 OAL

When all the cases are done
dial Reding micrometer so that the ogive is 0.015 from lands
make a second pass on seating bullets

Results:
As the brass wore out I would get fewer and fewer reloads between bocy die episodes
{first 6 reloads (2 round), then 5 (2 rounds), then 4 (2 rounds) then 3, then I started to get ICHS and body cracks}

I got 35 reload cycles from the 50 count set of brass
running a stiff 47.8 gr Varget load and 155 scenars
I lost 0 primer pockets
I lost 0 necks
I lost 2 cases to ICHS
I lost 2 cases to body cracks

No annealing was done,
the obturated neck diameters ran 0.3445.
Notice the neck only sizing was done in 2 steps 0.3445 -> 0.338 -> 0.332 with TiN bushings

This set of brass has been retired, but not throw away.
 
Rescently I ran such an experiment.

I started with a fresh set of 50 count Win Brass 308.
I used a Neck Only sizing strategy most of the time, and would bump the shoulders back 0.002 when they got too long.
I measure the shoulder position before each reload cycle.
I use Redding sleaved dies, a 332 and 338 bushing (338 first).

Procedure:
decap all fired brass
toss in tumbler over night
measure shoulder position
1) if OK toss in reload pile
2) if not toss in push back pile

If there were not enough cases in the reload pile
setup body die
lube
push shoulder back
measure shoulder position
if not OK go back to lube and do it again.
toss in reload pile
Repeat until enough cases are present in reload pile.

Insert primer with Redding universal priming tool over the whole set of caes
throw powder
trickle up to 47.8 gr Varget
drop tube into case
mount bullet
seat to 3.000 OAL

When all the cases are done
dial Reding micrometer so that the ogive is 0.015 from lands
make a second pass on seating bullets

Results:
As the brass wore out I would get fewer and fewer reloads between bocy die episodes
{first 6 reloads (2 round), then 5 (2 rounds), then 4 (2 rounds) then 3, then I started to get ICHS and body cracks}

I got 35 reload cycles from the 50 count set of brass
running a stiff 47.8 gr Varget load and 155 scenars
I lost 0 primer pockets
I lost 0 necks
I lost 2 cases to ICHS
I lost 2 cases to body cracks

No annealing was done,
the obturated neck diameters ran 0.3445.
Notice the neck only sizing was done in 2 steps 0.3445 -> 0.338 -> 0.332 with TiN bushings

This set of brass has been retired, but not throw away.
Wow! Never would have guessed you'd get that many reloads out of a piece of brass!!
 
I have 7 reloads on 50 peices of 300 wm brass each piece has been fl died once and neck sized six times. Its kinda crazy b/c there are no signs of brass wear! i was getting nervous and cut a few open and have no reason to believe they need to bee thrown out. I dont run any where near a hot load and prefer to let my scope do that work. How many reloads should i expect?
 
Wow! Never would have guessed you'd get that many reloads out of a piece of brass!!

Not really surprised, I have 100pc of hornady .308 brass thats got 25 loadings and never annealed the necks. Primer pockets are still the same now as they were when I first got them. I however don't run anything hard as that may also make a difference.
 
42.5gr 8208 XBR, 175smk 2.780 COAL. Now that its getting warm I want to chrono it and see what I'm running at. With varget its looking to be 42.7gr but I just did a preliminary load development and not using it much atm. I'm actually liking 8208 the more I use it.
 
If you plan on reloading a lot a Bench Source Annealing machine is a great investment. I reload 338LM,300WM,308WIN and 6.5CM and could not be happier with the extended life I get from all my brass. It easy to use and works great. You can see the machine at work on YouTube.
 
Case neck life is affected by sizing. If you're using lower end dies (neck or FL sizing) which have a combo decapper/expander ball, this will negatively affect the life of your case necks due to excessive working of the brass. They work by sizing the neck down more than necessary then expand the neck to the correct inside diameter. Many high-end dies have neck bushings to size the neck only as much as needed but sizing without the expander ball will mean you have to pay attention to the neck thickness of your brass and turn the necks when they thicken. Annealing periodically (maybe every 5) reloads will also enhance neck life. All this can add a lot of work so unless you're shooting something with pricey brass, it may not be worth the trouble.
 
You will need to FL size at some point, you will notice a hard bolt closing when it is time. you will need to bump the shoulder back. Trim to length, as it will feel the same at the bolt if the case is too long. I don't understand flipping the primers....you should be able to feel a loose primer, when you do, just deprime, save the primer and toss the brass. The primer pocket will get too bog to hold a primer, thus allowing pressure to escape, rapidly, in your face. The necks will probably spilt lengthwise from the mouth, making them unable to provide proper neck tension on the bullet.
Several things can go wrong with brass; necks, primer pockets, separation just above the base, necks get thicker, necks get work hardened needing to be annealed. Does this make sense?
I have found the exact same thing. I use Lee collet dies with great results, but need to anneal and full length size (RCBS die) after every 3-4 firings. For 308 I use my once fired Fed SMK 168gr & 175gr cases. My 308 load is 42.8gr IMR 4064 and SMK 168gr BTHP. For 260 I use new Lapua or Nossler brass with 43.3gr H4350 and Lapua 139br BTHP.
Using Dillon 550B press with RCBS Chargemaster and Thumbler Tumbler SS media. I anneal by hand with hand held torch. Up to 10 reloads with only a few loose primers. My finished bulles are all within 0.2gr total weight. Have not had to trim brass yet.
Find reloading as much fun as the shooting. Good luck and be safe. Always wear safety glasses when reloading!
 
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I got 4 loadings out of my win brass, then had to shitcan those. 47.6 gr of 2000mr and lost the primer pockets after #4. Only using 210m primers but they slid right out and tried putting a few back in after tumbling but they had no resistance going in....
 
Maybe your pressures are running too high? 47.6 gr. of 2000mr behind what bullet? Is your bullet seated out to the lands? Lots of things can affect pressures, but if you're losing primers at 4 loads, you just might have a pressure issue. Have you mic'd your case head expansion?
 
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At that load... .080 off the lands is giving me an SD of 10 and at .110 off I get SD of 4. Shooting the 185 jugs. They are running 2740 avg and absolute tack drivers. Sub 1/2moa. Haven't seen any pressure signs all the way up to 48.2. Not sure of the cause myself. Possibly could get a fifth firing but not wanting to push it. They just feel to loose to me. It's not compressed either, as I can shake powder still. I have not mic'd case heads...
 
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Butler,

Annealing for me is a no brainer, I use SH member Killshot 44, he deprimes, tumbles and anneals the brass and sends it back inside 10days. it makes the necks last longer and also gives more consistent neck tension for accurate reloads. AND it's less that $6 postage each way and 10 cents per round if I remember correctly, This is a cheap date to find out if annealing will help you and a no brainer for me. I use quality brass and anneal my 6mm every 4 loadings and my 7mm mag every 3. you can look him up. first rate service.

Idahoorion
 
I wouldn't push it either, if they're starting to feel loose, I toss 'em. It sounds like you have a reasonable load and jump so it's a mystery to me as well. I guess I'd be mic'ing case heads, it's a good practice to do anyway. It's always possible that you have a bad lot of brass. Is the brass all of the same lot? It could still be that pressure is running a bit high, when we're chasing the dragon, we pay the price trying to wring out max fps. I think case head expansion is the best indicator we mortals have for pressure, the other indicators like primer are far less reliable. If you still have some new cases, mic those and then mic the case heads after each firing, logging the results, you may find something there. You might also try another brand of brass such as Lapua, and see how that goes. You may have to drop down to the next node if case life is important to you.
 
Be interested on those achieving dozens of reloads in 308 if used in a bolt gun, a semi (esp a M1A)?

Bolt. I have yet to anneal but I do notice the difference in the neck between my hornady brass (20+ loadings) and my lapua which only has 7 give or take depending where they are in the rotation (500pc lot).
 
wxl,

Don't even try to get that sort of case life out of an M1A. Three reloads, and toss it. Not an issue of brass quality or brand preference, but of the gun itself. M14s/M1As and M1s are incredibly, brutally and viciously hard on brass. Best option there is to run Lake City cases, don't waste too much time on BenchRest case prep, and accept the fact that they're a temporary investment that will need to be replaced in short order.

In a bolt gun, watch your headspace and shoulder set back (.001"-.002", by a gage), don't overwork the necks any more than necessary to provide good neck tension, keep your loads within sane pressure limits and you should have those cases working for you for a long time.
 
wxl,

Don't even try to get that sort of case life out of an M1A. Three reloads, and toss it. Not an issue of brass quality or brand preference, but of the gun itself. M14s/M1As and M1s are incredibly, brutally and viciously hard on brass. Best option there is to run Lake City cases, don't waste too much time on BenchRest case prep, and accept the fact that they're a temporary investment that will need to be replaced in short order.

In a bolt gun, watch your headspace and shoulder set back (.001"-.002", by a gage), don't overwork the necks any more than necessary to provide good neck tension, keep your loads within sane pressure limits and you should have those cases working for you for a long time.

I love running lapua brass through a suppressed m1a. Just kidding of course. However, I do run lapua brass through my AR suppressed. Works ok, but one of my ARs is severely over gassed and the brass comes out looking like I shoved it up my ass for a few days