Hello all, I'm somewhat new to reloading I am having trouble with trimming cases. I'm currently using the Forster case trimmer and I am having trouble getting my cases trimmed squarely. Has anyone had the same experience with Forster? Would it be worth to get the L.E. Wilson? Is the Wilson better then the Forster?
Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
- Thread starter jake_c02
- Start date
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
I use the Foster units in multiple calibers without incident.
Much of the problem with trimming is the shell holder collet. Use the correct collet, and seat the case head consistantly, you'll see improved results.
Mine at least will trim straight, and turn to consistant dimension.
The new 3 way cutter attachment really speeds things up.
I use the Foster units in multiple calibers without incident.
Much of the problem with trimming is the shell holder collet. Use the correct collet, and seat the case head consistantly, you'll see improved results.
Mine at least will trim straight, and turn to consistant dimension.
The new 3 way cutter attachment really speeds things up.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
The Wilson is better,hands down.They all do ok after you learn to use them.The trim length changes on most collet types as you tighten it,you have to be consistant. Pete
The Wilson is better,hands down.They all do ok after you learn to use them.The trim length changes on most collet types as you tighten it,you have to be consistant. Pete
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
I like my Redding due to the rotating case design, but if it wore out or broke, I'd get the <span style="font-weight: bold">Wilson</span> in a heartbeat.
I like my Redding due to the rotating case design, but if it wore out or broke, I'd get the <span style="font-weight: bold">Wilson</span> in a heartbeat.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Theodore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Wilson is better,hands down.They all do ok after you learn to use them.The trim length changes on most collet types as you tighten it,you have to be consistant. Pete </div></div>
Any tips on how best to use the Wilson ? I've either trimmed too much or not square so far (tried hand and power). I'm 100% sure it is me not the Wilson.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Theodore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Wilson is better,hands down.They all do ok after you learn to use them.The trim length changes on most collet types as you tighten it,you have to be consistant. Pete </div></div>
Any tips on how best to use the Wilson ? I've either trimmed too much or not square so far (tried hand and power). I'm 100% sure it is me not the Wilson.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
TJ,
For a manual trimmer, Wilson all the way. They have been making them since time began, and are about as solid of a design principal as anything. They do cut square and true. I wouldn't spend for the micrometer version, but if I had money to burn.
I shoot alot of 308, so I have one all set up to trim 2.005". I am running mine under power, as I have a batch of 1000 cases I'm working on. I have plenty of time on my hands as I have a broken bone in my hand. There are faster ways to trim 1000 cases, but it keeps me in the man cave longer, so I get out of doing some chores for my sweetheart. I'll take a pic of my setup. JPG
TJ,
For a manual trimmer, Wilson all the way. They have been making them since time began, and are about as solid of a design principal as anything. They do cut square and true. I wouldn't spend for the micrometer version, but if I had money to burn.
I shoot alot of 308, so I have one all set up to trim 2.005". I am running mine under power, as I have a batch of 1000 cases I'm working on. I have plenty of time on my hands as I have a broken bone in my hand. There are faster ways to trim 1000 cases, but it keeps me in the man cave longer, so I get out of doing some chores for my sweetheart. I'll take a pic of my setup. JPG
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
I just mount mine to a piece of plywood. I had some hardwood left over from a project, and made a shallow box. Keeps the shavings off the floor and bench. I recycle all brass to put back into the gun fund. Last trip to the recyclers I made 165.00! Just get the hold down clamp with a raised base. I got mine from Russ Haydons Shooters Supply, but you can get one from Sinclair's as well. Let us know what you come up with. Jason
I just mount mine to a piece of plywood. I had some hardwood left over from a project, and made a shallow box. Keeps the shavings off the floor and bench. I recycle all brass to put back into the gun fund. Last trip to the recyclers I made 165.00! Just get the hold down clamp with a raised base. I got mine from Russ Haydons Shooters Supply, but you can get one from Sinclair's as well. Let us know what you come up with. Jason
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
I love my LE Wilson... such a nice little unit
wishing the all stainless model was around when i purchased mine
I love my LE Wilson... such a nice little unit
wishing the all stainless model was around when i purchased mine
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jake_c02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm thanks for the info. I'll keep using the Forster for now and try to be as conisistant as possile. Hopefully it helps. </div></div>
Here's some real world advice to help you out with consistancy with a Forster....
The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. If you study it for a minute, and understand how the threaded part of it works, you will discover that the tighter you crank it down the shorter the case will be trimmed. There is no "bottom" to it per the clamping action of the collet on the casehead. Super Tight isn't the answer either as that's just a PITA to work with.
I've got a piece of masking tape on the cylindrical part of the collet end that has a sharpie mark on it that I line up the collet handle with each time I put a case in it. This lends to a more consistent case length because the collet is the same tightness from case to case, and thus the finished dimension from the casehead to the cutter face is always the same. I go just tight enough to hold the case to do the work.
Also, get in the habit of pushing the cutter against the un-cut case as you tighten the collet. This will center the case perfectly with the cutter pilot and provide the casehead being completely "into" the collet as you tighten it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jake_c02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm thanks for the info. I'll keep using the Forster for now and try to be as conisistant as possile. Hopefully it helps. </div></div>
Here's some real world advice to help you out with consistancy with a Forster....
The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. If you study it for a minute, and understand how the threaded part of it works, you will discover that the tighter you crank it down the shorter the case will be trimmed. There is no "bottom" to it per the clamping action of the collet on the casehead. Super Tight isn't the answer either as that's just a PITA to work with.
I've got a piece of masking tape on the cylindrical part of the collet end that has a sharpie mark on it that I line up the collet handle with each time I put a case in it. This lends to a more consistent case length because the collet is the same tightness from case to case, and thus the finished dimension from the casehead to the cutter face is always the same. I go just tight enough to hold the case to do the work.
Also, get in the habit of pushing the cutter against the un-cut case as you tighten the collet. This will center the case perfectly with the cutter pilot and provide the casehead being completely "into" the collet as you tighten it.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
And, to add to Tripwire...I made a sliding trough (on top of a 2x4 that I mounted my trimmer on)for my DeWalt screwdriver to slide in...when feeding the new case into the Forster, push the mandrel into the case mouth while slowly spinning the drill motor...that will help center the case head in the collet. Tighten the collet as you spin the case, then speed up the drill motor and trim. works for me. JMHO
And, to add to Tripwire...I made a sliding trough (on top of a 2x4 that I mounted my trimmer on)for my DeWalt screwdriver to slide in...when feeding the new case into the Forster, push the mandrel into the case mouth while slowly spinning the drill motor...that will help center the case head in the collet. Tighten the collet as you spin the case, then speed up the drill motor and trim. works for me. JMHO
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
A lot of really smart people (and a few dummies like me) feel a precisely square cut on a case mouth has little or no impact on accuracy because it seems the neck is usually slapped hard against the chamber neck before the bullet's base clears the mouth.
A lot of really smart people (and a few dummies like me) feel a precisely square cut on a case mouth has little or no impact on accuracy because it seems the neck is usually slapped hard against the chamber neck before the bullet's base clears the mouth.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
Table vice....they sell small ones at harbor freight for like $20.
The Wilson is the best trimmer that I have used to date. It trims every brass square and straight. Can't ask for more.
Table vice....they sell small ones at harbor freight for like $20.
The Wilson is the best trimmer that I have used to date. It trims every brass square and straight. Can't ask for more.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jake_c02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm thanks for the info. I'll keep using the Forster for now and try to be as conisistant as possile. Hopefully it helps. </div></div>
Here's some real world advice to help you out with consistancy with a Forster....
The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. If you study it for a minute, and understand how the threaded part of it works, you will discover that the tighter you crank it down the shorter the case will be trimmed. There is no "bottom" to it per the clamping action of the collet on the casehead. Super Tight isn't the answer either as that's just a PITA to work with.
I've got a piece of masking tape on the cylindrical part of the collet end that has a sharpie mark on it that I line up the collet handle with each time I put a case in it. This lends to a more consistent case length because the collet is the same tightness from case to case, and thus the finished dimension from the casehead to the cutter face is always the same. I go just tight enough to hold the case to do the work.
Also, get in the habit of pushing the cutter against the un-cut case as you tighten the collet. This will center the case perfectly with the cutter pilot and provide the casehead being completely "into" the collet as you tighten it. </div></div>
Thanks for the tips makes perfect sense now! I think the majority of problem was the tightening the cases inconisistent.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jake_c02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm thanks for the info. I'll keep using the Forster for now and try to be as conisistant as possile. Hopefully it helps. </div></div>
Here's some real world advice to help you out with consistancy with a Forster....
The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. If you study it for a minute, and understand how the threaded part of it works, you will discover that the tighter you crank it down the shorter the case will be trimmed. There is no "bottom" to it per the clamping action of the collet on the casehead. Super Tight isn't the answer either as that's just a PITA to work with.
I've got a piece of masking tape on the cylindrical part of the collet end that has a sharpie mark on it that I line up the collet handle with each time I put a case in it. This lends to a more consistent case length because the collet is the same tightness from case to case, and thus the finished dimension from the casehead to the cutter face is always the same. I go just tight enough to hold the case to do the work.
Also, get in the habit of pushing the cutter against the un-cut case as you tighten the collet. This will center the case perfectly with the cutter pilot and provide the casehead being completely "into" the collet as you tighten it. </div></div>
Thanks for the tips makes perfect sense now! I think the majority of problem was the tightening the cases inconisistent.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
You have another concern...internal chamfering of the case mouth. Just running a tapered cutter into the mouth will not gain you a consistant centered taper. One side will be deeper than the other visually...more than a thou or so. If you use the wilson chamferer you can keep it concentric. But you'll need a whole 'nother operation for that. JMHO
You have another concern...internal chamfering of the case mouth. Just running a tapered cutter into the mouth will not gain you a consistant centered taper. One side will be deeper than the other visually...more than a thou or so. If you use the wilson chamferer you can keep it concentric. But you'll need a whole 'nother operation for that. JMHO
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. </div></div>
This statement is misinformed. The assembly diagram & parts list in the instructions clearly show the design of the case holder. The Forster trimmer's collet is closed from the rear by the collet screw, while the collet remains stationary, with its flat nose held against the inside of the stationary collet holder.
Most trimmers that use a neck pilot and hold the case from the head, should be slipped onto the pilot, then pressed back against the collet before tightening it. This helps make sure the case is clamped squarely in the collet.
I like the wilson trimmer which I use while held in a small bench vise. Works great, with less fuss than most other trimmers. It is adjustable and more accurate, square and consistent than the Lee. You can tell it was designed by a machinist, with it's straight forward, simple, robust, yet effective design.
Andy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. </div></div>
This statement is misinformed. The assembly diagram & parts list in the instructions clearly show the design of the case holder. The Forster trimmer's collet is closed from the rear by the collet screw, while the collet remains stationary, with its flat nose held against the inside of the stationary collet holder.
Most trimmers that use a neck pilot and hold the case from the head, should be slipped onto the pilot, then pressed back against the collet before tightening it. This helps make sure the case is clamped squarely in the collet.
I like the wilson trimmer which I use while held in a small bench vise. Works great, with less fuss than most other trimmers. It is adjustable and more accurate, square and consistent than the Lee. You can tell it was designed by a machinist, with it's straight forward, simple, robust, yet effective design.
Andy
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJakeJ1s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. </div></div>
This statement is misinformed. The assembly diagram & parts list in the instructions clearly show the design of the case holder.
Andy </div></div>
If you had any practical hands on experience instead of speculation via a parts list then you would easily realize that the collet assembly is three parts, two of which are tapered moving parts which provide the clamping action, and none of it is a precisely machined device. The split collet itself is also machined with a generic set of steps in it that are designed to fit every case head ever made, and because of that it doesn't "fit" all of them perfectly....which is why it's tapered and forced tight with the threads.
Anyone with even a hint of mechanical aptitude can understand that threaded parts in a tightened state can never be returned to the "same" place twice unless they are "torqued" to the same amount each time. Since the variations in case length spoken about here are mere thousandths of an inch it's perfectly reasonable that different levels of "torque" on the collet handle will produce different levels of outcome in case length....despite the "stop" you are soley basing your speculation on.
Assuming the design is ultimately precise because of what an assembly diagram shows is nothing more than a serious lack of BT/DT with a Forster trimmer. I experienced the same thing as the OP when I bought mine some 15 or so years ago, and the fix was to do as I suggested in my post. As long as the handle is tightened to a witness mark and the case is forced into the collet as it's being tightened then there are no problems.
Obviously, YMMV...........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJakeJ1s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Forster unit's collet will change the length of your brass depending on how tight you crank it down on the case head. </div></div>
This statement is misinformed. The assembly diagram & parts list in the instructions clearly show the design of the case holder.
Andy </div></div>
If you had any practical hands on experience instead of speculation via a parts list then you would easily realize that the collet assembly is three parts, two of which are tapered moving parts which provide the clamping action, and none of it is a precisely machined device. The split collet itself is also machined with a generic set of steps in it that are designed to fit every case head ever made, and because of that it doesn't "fit" all of them perfectly....which is why it's tapered and forced tight with the threads.
Anyone with even a hint of mechanical aptitude can understand that threaded parts in a tightened state can never be returned to the "same" place twice unless they are "torqued" to the same amount each time. Since the variations in case length spoken about here are mere thousandths of an inch it's perfectly reasonable that different levels of "torque" on the collet handle will produce different levels of outcome in case length....despite the "stop" you are soley basing your speculation on.
Assuming the design is ultimately precise because of what an assembly diagram shows is nothing more than a serious lack of BT/DT with a Forster trimmer. I experienced the same thing as the OP when I bought mine some 15 or so years ago, and the fix was to do as I suggested in my post. As long as the handle is tightened to a witness mark and the case is forced into the collet as it's being tightened then there are no problems.
Obviously, YMMV...........
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
I will get the popcorn for this one. I think the wilson is the best option for many reasons listed above.
I will get the popcorn for this one. I think the wilson is the best option for many reasons listed above.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
No need to keep on with it. Wilson is the best IMHO. Others will work and can work well but everything I have made by L.E. Wilson is top notch and their trimmer is no different.
No need to keep on with it. Wilson is the best IMHO. Others will work and can work well but everything I have made by L.E. Wilson is top notch and their trimmer is no different.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silverbullet-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will get the popcorn for this one. I think the wilson is the best option for many reasons listed above. </div></div>
No need, I've made my argument based on owning/using two Forsters and the pro/con experience gleaned along the way, not speculation....take it or leave it.
One Forster is set up for trimming pistol cases as needed per crimping operations, the other turns necks...neither trim CF rifle cases to length anymore.
I've also said I prefer a Redding for trimming over either of the two mentioned here....also take it or leave it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silverbullet-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will get the popcorn for this one. I think the wilson is the best option for many reasons listed above. </div></div>
No need, I've made my argument based on owning/using two Forsters and the pro/con experience gleaned along the way, not speculation....take it or leave it.
One Forster is set up for trimming pistol cases as needed per crimping operations, the other turns necks...neither trim CF rifle cases to length anymore.
I've also said I prefer a Redding for trimming over either of the two mentioned here....also take it or leave it.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
I agree the Wilson is a better trimmer, but not because of the fear, uncertainty and dread being spread about the Forster.
I mentioned the parts list so that you and/or others who might not have one or have ever worked with one might be able to understand and use the same nomenclature for the parts. I have worked with the Forster first-hand, and I know very well exactly how it works.
Look again at what moves when the Forster collet is tightened. The collet screw advances over the rear tapered portion of the collet, tightening it. The collet is held stationary lengthwise in the collet holder while this happens. The front end of the collet is flat, not tapered, and the inside face of the collet holder is also flat, not tapered. There is no movement of the collet towards or away from the cutter as it is tightened, thus it will not change trim length with the amount of tightening (or with brass rim diameter either, unless it is gross enough to slip to the next step inside the collet). As you said yourself, "anyone with a hint of mechanical aptitude" should be able to figure out that the threaded parts are not determining the position of the Forster trimmer's collet.
When used according to the instructions (insert pilot in neck before bottoming the case head in the collet and tightening it), with brass in good condition (no deformed rims, etc), the Forster trimmer will provide excellent consistency and accuracy in trim length. If these instructions are not followed correctly and consistently, then it will not give the desired results.
I find it easier to use the Wilson to get excellent results, which is why I like it better. I have no experience with the Redding trimmer, but a lot of users share your preference for it.
Andy
I agree the Wilson is a better trimmer, but not because of the fear, uncertainty and dread being spread about the Forster.
I mentioned the parts list so that you and/or others who might not have one or have ever worked with one might be able to understand and use the same nomenclature for the parts. I have worked with the Forster first-hand, and I know very well exactly how it works.
Look again at what moves when the Forster collet is tightened. The collet screw advances over the rear tapered portion of the collet, tightening it. The collet is held stationary lengthwise in the collet holder while this happens. The front end of the collet is flat, not tapered, and the inside face of the collet holder is also flat, not tapered. There is no movement of the collet towards or away from the cutter as it is tightened, thus it will not change trim length with the amount of tightening (or with brass rim diameter either, unless it is gross enough to slip to the next step inside the collet). As you said yourself, "anyone with a hint of mechanical aptitude" should be able to figure out that the threaded parts are not determining the position of the Forster trimmer's collet.
When used according to the instructions (insert pilot in neck before bottoming the case head in the collet and tightening it), with brass in good condition (no deformed rims, etc), the Forster trimmer will provide excellent consistency and accuracy in trim length. If these instructions are not followed correctly and consistently, then it will not give the desired results.
I find it easier to use the Wilson to get excellent results, which is why I like it better. I have no experience with the Redding trimmer, but a lot of users share your preference for it.
Andy
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
I use both trimmers.Not so much the Forster anymore.The Wilson with the micrometer is fantastic!I just dial the correct setting for each different case I'll be trimming.No fooling around with trying to adjust the Forster to the .001 by hand,arg.I got the technique down for the Forster but never really warmed up to the idea of having to do it in the first place.Also the Forster wears out.Some of the collets won't hold a case tight anymore.I don't know whether it's collets or the inside of the collet sleeve that's worn out but either way I have the Wilson now.
I use both trimmers.Not so much the Forster anymore.The Wilson with the micrometer is fantastic!I just dial the correct setting for each different case I'll be trimming.No fooling around with trying to adjust the Forster to the .001 by hand,arg.I got the technique down for the Forster but never really warmed up to the idea of having to do it in the first place.Also the Forster wears out.Some of the collets won't hold a case tight anymore.I don't know whether it's collets or the inside of the collet sleeve that's worn out but either way I have the Wilson now.
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
Never had any problems with my Forster. I would clean the collet frequently. My brass has never had any issues where it was'nt squared. Good luck
Never had any problems with my Forster. I would clean the collet frequently. My brass has never had any issues where it was'nt squared. Good luck
Re: Case Trimmers: Forster vs L.E. Wilson
Wilson! Keeps the guys down the street from me employed. Oh yeah and they make the best tools for us!
T
Wilson! Keeps the guys down the street from me employed. Oh yeah and they make the best tools for us!
T
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