Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

[Swift]

I started reloading earlier this year and my first batch of Nosler brass is about to undergo it's 3rd reload. It's still in good shape but after putting it through the sizing die, cleaning, doing the primer pockets, chamfering/deburring, etc I'm finding that most of the brass is measuring 2.005" instead of 2.015" (.308).

I've always used minimum load specs as I'm still new to this but the shorter case length is now causing the powder to creep up to or just above the shoulder. I can lightly tap the neck a couple times to get it to settle a bit but I don't want to overdo it and pack the powder.

I guess this is a 2 part question.
1. Is there anything I can do to get back to the proper length? It seems odd that a $40 box of brass only lasted 3 loads under minimum load specs and pressures.
2. If I tap it lightly (and I mean VERY lightly) to get the powder to settle just enough, is the case still safe to fire or should I just pitch em?

I'm not trying to load match ammo. I'm still a fairly new shooter, only been at it a couple years, and I'm reloading primarily for practice on the range as well as to get familiar with the reloading process so if I lose a little accuracy using a shorter OAL I'm ok with that but I also think that a cartridge that's too short can cause excessive chamber pressures (correct me if I'm wrong)

So if someone can help me out so I don't blow my face off that would be awesome. Thanks in advance!

 

[pshell]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

I'm not sure what the minimum length for .308 brass is, but I think your fine. What powder are you using? Just wondering, seems like it should not come up too high with minimum loads. Are you trimming your brass at every firing? Are you full length sizing your brass? Are you sure that it measured 2.015 to begin with? You should vibrate the powder down, or shake the loading tray to get it to settle.
It's never a bad thing to be cautious, but I think your putting to much into this.

Not sure about a short OAL causing high chamber pressure, but too long can. Knowing exactly what your chamber looks like and the dimensions is nice and can be had with some cerrocast.

 

[Swift]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

The maximum trim length for the case is 2.015". I've been using Varget and 4064 powders and load almost exclusively with 168 MK and I've never loaded more than 42 grains of either powder. I measure all my brass when I buy it and it's normally within +/- .005. I don't trim unless it exceeds 2.015" and my sizing die is also a decapping die so it gets sized after every cycle.

I'm probably overthinking it like you said, but with something like this, especially for a new reloader, I like to err on the side of caution. I believe I read somewhere that packing the powder even a little bit is not recommended so I didn't want to do it before I had a little better perspective.

 

[vman]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

Bearjew,

max case length for the .308 in 2.015 at that length or longer you then trim back to 2.005.

How long were your cases to begin with?

Unless you have trimmed them already or chamfered the living crap out of the necks they should not reduce in length, but rather grow longer.

How do the shoulders look? your not bashing them down by oversizing them are you? If your really cranking down hard on the press ram while your FL sizing you may have your sizing die backed down too much. Compare a fired case to a sized case and if you notice any noticeable difference you might be oversizing, but this would be unusuall.

 

[Country]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

Can't see the issue. Most 308 chambers are 2.020 to 2.025 long from base to end of neck anyway. The case being shorter than the chamber at the end of the neck is not much of an issue . It's the shoulder to base length that affects headspace.

Just square them up and shoot them.

 

[Swift]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

So should I keep using my current powder charges even though the case seems to fill higher? I'm not sure the bullet is compressing it at all when its seated but I just want to make sure it's safe.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

Step away from the press...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96660#Post96660

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Step away from the press...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96660#Post96660 </div></div>

 

[dave338]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

stop loading, go and make a cup of tea then come back!

check.
[1] case trimmed to 2.005" [sammi max is 2.015"] trim anywhere from 2".000 -2.010", so long as they are all the same!

[2] primers seated to .004-.005"

[3] headspace [from base to datum point on shoulder] hornaday guage =1.623-1.625 [lapua factory spec]

[4] 168gr bullet = 44.2gr varget [ WORK UP TO THIS ]

[5] oal =max 2.810, 2.800" works in most magazines thats about 2.172" base to ogive.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1. Is there anything I can do to get back to the proper length? It seems odd that a $40 box of brass only lasted 3 loads under minimum load specs and pressures.
2. If I tap it lightly (and I mean VERY lightly) to get the powder to settle just enough, is the case still safe to fire or should I just pitch em?</div></div>

1. Every time you shoot them and then FL size them, the cases will get longer. So if you want the cases to grow in length, load-em and shoot-em more. {really}. Also note, the stiffer the laod, the more they grow.

2. Load them and shoot them until: A) a neck cracks, B) the primers fall out of the pockets, C) hair line grove above the web emerges.

 

[Enios]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

Never bought a piece of Nosler brass yet that wasn't well below trim length and problem could be 2 fold if you are excessively sizing them.... Usually have to be shot 3 or 4 times and sometimes more before they need to be trimmed... Got about 400 rds in 308 and 200 in 243 and they have all been that way... Load em and shoot em....

 

[Country]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

You only stated .308 ? I am presuming 308 Winchester.
If the 42 grains is not a max charge and it would normally not be. I would not worry about the neck length . The bullets should still seat to the same distance off the lands in your bullet seater . So the bullet is still in the same place relevant to the shoulder and case volume. It's just being held by a shorter neck .

 

[Swift]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You only stated .308 ? I am presuming 308 Winchester.
If the 42 grains is not a max charge and it would normally not be. I would not worry about the neck length . The bullets should still seat to the same distance off the lands in your bullet seater . So the bullet is still in the same place relevant to the shoulder and case volume. It's just being held by a shorter neck . </div></div>

Yes, 308 Winchester. It very well could be the sizing die. To be honest, I just followed the instructions as far as getting the bottom of the die in the correct place in relation to the top of the press arm. I've never had anything size smaller than 2.005" so I guess I should do some fine tuning and see if that makes a difference.

So if the neck length is correct, it's safe to use the same charge as normal. If the neck length is too short, the brass should be pitched. What's an acceptable length for a .308 neck? I don't have the measurement off hand but is the +/- pretty strict?

 

[Country]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

The length of the actual neck makes almost no difference to "anything" from a saftey point of view as long as you are not seating the bullet any " deeper " than before and the neck is shorter than the chamber room or it is not so short that it can not hold the bullet correctly . The bullet is in the "same " place as usual in " relation to" the lands and shoulder of the case.
look at a drawing of the case dimentions. Then imagine the neck .015 shorter , but nothing else moves . It would make very little difference.
As long as the neck is not so short that it will not hold the bullet securely and the bullet is not seated deeper to affect case volume it can't affect much at all.
You don't throw away casese based on a few thou shorter neck length.
You throw away cases based on number of firings and or web thining.
It's web thining that is one of the main safety issues.
Don't set up your sizing die by press position . Set it by how the sized case fits in the chamber. Find a tight case to set the die . Adjust the die down a bit at a time and keep trying the case in the chamber as soon as the bolt just closes on the case with slight resistance then adjust it a fraction more and the bolt should close easy but the case will be minimum headspace fit. Autos are harder to do. Get you headspace correct first then just trim up the case mouth square if they need it , chamfer inside and out , neck size and they will be good to go.

 

[Swift]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The length of the actual neck makes almost no difference to "anything" from a saftey point of view as long as you are not seating the bullet any " deeper " than before and the neck is shorter than the chamber room or it is not so short that it can not hold the bullet correctly . The bullet is in the "same " place as usual in " relation to" the lands and shoulder of the case.
look at a drawing of the case dimentions. Then imagine the neck .015 shorter , but nothing else moves . It would make very little difference.
As long as the neck is not so short that it will not hold the bullet securely and the bullet is not seated deeper to affect case volume it can't affect much at all.
You don't throw away casese based on a few thou shorter neck length.
You throw away cases based on number of firings and or web thining.
It's web thining that is one of the main safety issues.
Don't set up your sizing die by press position . Set it by how the sized case fits in the chamber. Find a tight case to set the die . Adjust the die down a bit at a time and keep trying the case in the chamber as soon as the bolt just closes on the case with slight resistance then adjust it a fraction more and the bolt should close easy but the case will be minimum headspace fit. Autos are harder to do. Get you headspace correct first then just trim up the case mouth square if they need it , chamfer inside and out , neck size and they will be good to go. </div></div>

I gotcha. The bullets have no trouble seating and maintaining a tight fit so I should be ok on that front. I guess I could crimp to be safe but it shouldn't need it.

I've read briefly on how to find the exact chamber measurements of your particular rifle but never got much further than that. Can you point me in the right direction? I'd prefer to size my brass to my chamber rather than following a general .308 guideline.

 

[18Echo]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

just to make things simple I trim my .308 to 2.000

 

[tarzan]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

same, trim to 2.000 never had them get any shorter

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Cases beginning to get too short. What to do next?

There are some tacked threads here by TresMon. Read the first one on case prep. In it, he describes how to set your FL sizing die so it is only sizing as much as you need. The instructions that come with most dies set you up for oversizing your brass.

Good Luck.