I’ve been doing load development on my new barrel (6x47L) and occasionally notices a shot being odd feeling but not being a flier then I had one failure to fire then started realizing that the odd feeling shots were hang fires. I’m not blaming the primer yet but I’m getting good firing pin indentions and didn’t have hang fires with some Tulas that I tried or with BR2s with the .260 barrel on. Just wondering if anyone else has had a consistent case of primer misfire with a lot of primers?
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CCI BR4 primers misfires
- Thread starter kansas
- Start date
Are you perhaps bumping the shoulders back too far on your reloads and leaving too much headspace. Are you using a case gauge to check your brass after resizing?
If shoulders bumped back too much the cartridge will have room to slide forward in the chamber when being struck by the firing pin resulting in a primer strike that may very well dent the primer, but will fail to set it off as much of the actual force of the strike will be absorbed by the round moving slightly forward in the chamber.
Are you seeing any marks on the case head from the bolt on those rounds that successfully fire and are slammed back against the bolt face?
If shoulders bumped back too much the cartridge will have room to slide forward in the chamber when being struck by the firing pin resulting in a primer strike that may very well dent the primer, but will fail to set it off as much of the actual force of the strike will be absorbed by the round moving slightly forward in the chamber.
Are you seeing any marks on the case head from the bolt on those rounds that successfully fire and are slammed back against the bolt face?
In addition to the above, low "flash"/low SD primers often have trouble when there is more space in the case or a lot of powder. I experienced a lot of what you are describing using with Tula primers in .30-06 and .270 with IMR 4064, which gave no trouble and excellent SD in .308. Win WLR, while giving higher SD with extruded powders in .308, did very well with ball powders in .308 and all powders in the longer cases.
Well it’s not headspace. I’ve got a very snug chamber and can’t chamber a round if the primer extrudes even slightly but I am using 33.0 grains of Varget which doesn’t fill the case completely up but should still rest a significant amount of powder against the base.
I haven’t had a misfire in thousands of BR2 primers so I find it hard to suspect the primers however with good primer strikes an two complete misfires I’m suspecting that as the problem. I was curious if anyone else has experienced this and traced it back to the primer.
I haven’t had a misfire in thousands of BR2 primers so I find it hard to suspect the primers however with good primer strikes an two complete misfires I’m suspecting that as the problem. I was curious if anyone else has experienced this and traced it back to the primer.
Same lot of primers you've had success with in this exact case/powder charge/bullet combo before?
I can't give you a direct answer about your particular situation.
I use Varget and BR-4's with the 223 and on some 7.62x39 cases (other x39's have large pockets), and have experienced misfires, but not hang fires. In my case all of my loads have been mildly compressed loads.
The misfires appear to have been accompanied by some raised primers among the unfired rounds from the same lot/reloading batch, and have generally fired properly on succeeding attempts.
So I'm venturing a guess that either raised (incompletely seated) primers, or defects in the primers or propellant could be involved.
Greg
I use Varget and BR-4's with the 223 and on some 7.62x39 cases (other x39's have large pockets), and have experienced misfires, but not hang fires. In my case all of my loads have been mildly compressed loads.
The misfires appear to have been accompanied by some raised primers among the unfired rounds from the same lot/reloading batch, and have generally fired properly on succeeding attempts.
So I'm venturing a guess that either raised (incompletely seated) primers, or defects in the primers or propellant could be involved.
Greg
I’ve not used any of this lot of primers before. I had a new barrel spun up at the first of the year and bought two thousand primers at Cabela’s off the shelf. I’ve used lots of CCI primers in the past without any problems. CCI has always been my preferred primer because of consistent results. I’m trying to figure out if I need to trash these primers or...? Only way to tell for sure will be to try a different primer for awhile.
Maybe try a different primer with this exact load and see how it goes.
Might also be interesting to try a different lot of BR4s if you know someone local who'd give you 10.
If a different primer works, then the BR4 just might not be good for your application. If you can get hold of a few BR4s from another lot and have no issues I'd contact CCI and see if they'd swap them out or give you a refund.
There always has to be a first person to detect issues with a bad batch of primers...
Might also be interesting to try a different lot of BR4s if you know someone local who'd give you 10.
If a different primer works, then the BR4 just might not be good for your application. If you can get hold of a few BR4s from another lot and have no issues I'd contact CCI and see if they'd swap them out or give you a refund.
There always has to be a first person to detect issues with a bad batch of primers...
Greg I could question the quality of the powder since it’s fairly old but that wouldn’t cause a primer to not fire. Maybe could cause hangfires though. I’m checking every primer to be certain that they are seated flush but not crushed.
Yeah I’ve got some Tulas marked 223 and lots of CCI 400 so that’ll be my next step. I’m not terribly concerned with getting a refund from CCI but have emailed them to see if anyone else is experiencing these failures. I’m nearly positive it’s a primer fault but I could be wrong. I’ve just never experienced bad primers, at least not for 30-40 years. I’ve got primers that are 30
I am having failure to fire with my BR4s In my new rifle.
I used same combo on my old rifle for the prior 1500 rounds with zero issues.
Lapua 6.5 CM Brass
BR4 primer
42.4 H4350
Primer .003 below flush
Checking for excess headspace the New rifle cases grew .003 headspace vs Lapua Brass out of the box.
new rifle had 9 FTF out of 90 shots in a match yesterday. The rifle is shooting very good tiny groups and repeatable dope they just don’t all go bang. Not fun hearing “click” on every stage when the clock is running
Any advice in primer depth? seems people have had more success seating the primer deeper?
I’m also going to try Federal 205s as it seems this has also been recommended
Thank you!
I used same combo on my old rifle for the prior 1500 rounds with zero issues.
Lapua 6.5 CM Brass
BR4 primer
42.4 H4350
Primer .003 below flush
Checking for excess headspace the New rifle cases grew .003 headspace vs Lapua Brass out of the box.
new rifle had 9 FTF out of 90 shots in a match yesterday. The rifle is shooting very good tiny groups and repeatable dope they just don’t all go bang. Not fun hearing “click” on every stage when the clock is running
Any advice in primer depth? seems people have had more success seating the primer deeper?
I’m also going to try Federal 205s as it seems this has also been recommended
Thank you!
I had a similar experience with my F-TR rifle chambered in .223 and after ruling out all of the components we found the firing pin spring was weakened and not impacting the primer hard enough. Did not have that problem with the Federal 205M primers and believe the CCI primers are quite a bit harder.
Okay first I need to fess up. I’m sure that most of my problems came from tumbler media in the primer holes however last match I still had one hangfire.
I contacted CCI whom promptly replied and gave me some things to try as well as researching whether there were any other complaints from this batch of primers, which there weren’t, and he explained that in order for the primer to function correctly that they needed to be seated to the bottom of the primer pocket. It makes sense. I was already seating that way but on some brass, such as Lapua, where the primer pocket is tight it takes a good amount of pressure to force the primer to the bottom of the pocket. I prime brass on my 550B press which does a great job of getting the primer in straight and pushing it to the bottom of the pocket. I’m going to use up the 2000 BR4s I’ve got. I’ve always had great success with all CCI primers and have had problems with another major brands.
I have switched to using nothing but CCI 450 primers in everything that uses a small primer and wouldn't go back.
I couldn't tell enough of a difference to justify the price difference so made the switch.
I couldn't tell enough of a difference to justify the price difference so made the switch.
Great info. I’m going to measure my primer Pocket depth and see if I’m at the bottom
Thank you
not BR4s...but the guys i shoot with and I have had so many miss fires and stupid high ESs with the CCI450s that we have given up on them and all went to fed205Ms.
I've had some misfire. Better success with 450s and better Chrono numbers.
As a follow up:
1) I seated my primers .005 below flush instead of .003 which I can feel the bottom of the cup with my hand primer
2) tried Federal 205m
3) tried brand new BR4s
4) shot them in once fired Brass only neck sized
Everything is working perfectly now. Shot 130 rounds over two days this week and had zero failures. Hard to determine what was causing the failure as I changed the seating depth, primers and and used once fired brass. Ill figure it out messing with some practice ammo and narrow down what was causing the failure.
1) I seated my primers .005 below flush instead of .003 which I can feel the bottom of the cup with my hand primer
2) tried Federal 205m
3) tried brand new BR4s
4) shot them in once fired Brass only neck sized
Everything is working perfectly now. Shot 130 rounds over two days this week and had zero failures. Hard to determine what was causing the failure as I changed the seating depth, primers and and used once fired brass. Ill figure it out messing with some practice ammo and narrow down what was causing the failure.
While it is not BR4's I have been plague by FTF on CCI 500 small pistol primers for over two years. I cannot find Federal and I will not use Winchester for I have had and see numerous other shooters with problems with them. The failures have occurred through seven different pistols all with good primer strikes. The failures are so random that I may have five or six out of fifty rds. and then it dissapears for hundreds or even several thousand. Most will fire on a second strike and some never. I load on a Dillon 650 which does not provide any adjustment for primer seating depth but have managed to force a .10 shim under the actuator with no improvement.
I have deprimed the cases that have multiple hits without firing and removed the anvil and then inspected under magnification. I am not sure what and anvil should look like but they are similar to primers that have fired. There was priming compound in all of the ones I have inspected.
I buy my primers in 5,000 lots so this problem has been occurring through at least 15,000 primers and three different lots.
Several of my fellow shooters are using Tula and S&B with good results and they are a lot cheaper. I believe that CCI has quality control problems.
I have deprimed the cases that have multiple hits without firing and removed the anvil and then inspected under magnification. I am not sure what and anvil should look like but they are similar to primers that have fired. There was priming compound in all of the ones I have inspected.
I buy my primers in 5,000 lots so this problem has been occurring through at least 15,000 primers and three different lots.
Several of my fellow shooters are using Tula and S&B with good results and they are a lot cheaper. I believe that CCI has quality control problems.
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Agreed,
I think it is a combination of what you mentioned, 1) the firing pin seating the primers for .002 combined with 2) a few extra thou of headspace on new lapua brass absorbing the firing pin strike.
I had the same problem with br4s. I called cci and they told me I was crushing the cup of the primer. I started trying to “feel” it seating properly instead of squeezing all the way down. Hand primer of course. Haven’t had a problem since
Okay final update on BR4s.
I would conclude that MOST of my problem is primer seating depth combined with new brass.
(original post above)
9 Failure to Fire out of 90 shots
New Lapua Brass out of the box
BR4s seated .002 to .003 below flush
Suspected bad lot of primers
ZERO Failure to fire out of 800 shots!
Fired Lapua brass, shoulder bumped .002
BR4s seated .004 to .005 below flush
NEW fresh box of BR4s
1 Failure to fire out of 100 Shots
Fired Lapua brass, shoulder bumped .002
BR4s seated .004 to .005 below flush
Suspected bad lot of primers
I would conclude that MOST of my problem is primer seating depth combined with new brass.
(original post above)
9 Failure to Fire out of 90 shots
New Lapua Brass out of the box
BR4s seated .002 to .003 below flush
Suspected bad lot of primers
ZERO Failure to fire out of 800 shots!
Fired Lapua brass, shoulder bumped .002
BR4s seated .004 to .005 below flush
NEW fresh box of BR4s
1 Failure to fire out of 100 Shots
Fired Lapua brass, shoulder bumped .002
BR4s seated .004 to .005 below flush
Suspected bad lot of primers
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