Cerakote process really that “potentially bad"

[HeavyAssault]

Upon considering to have my optic and mount coated to match the rifle I get this sort of “push back” from applicators. They are saying the process (heating specifically) can cause issues with the optic itself. As I told one guy who was really apprehensive, I get it your process can cause a $1k+ optic to be a brick which isn’t good business.

Is this really that problematic to the optic, or more along “we just don’t like to do optics”??

 

[Fig]

It's a pretty thick coating on pretty delicate stuff. The potential to get it wrong is probably high. Cost/benifit.

Just rattlecan it. Burt will give you tips!

 

[buffalowinter]

For scopes you use the C series air-dry Cerakote and not the H series baked Cerakote.

C SERIES - AIR CURE​

KEY FEATURES​

• Formulated to withstand temperatures up to 1800°F (See individual product descriptions for specific temperature rating)
• Single component, ready to spray
• Direct to substrate - no primer required
• Over 50 colors available
• Excellent UV Stability
• Great option for large or small parts that cannot be oven cured
• Extremely high chemical resistance
• Uses: Automotive, wheels, exhaust systems, firearms, architectural, lighting, hardware, optics and much more

 

[HeavyAssault]

Okay….now it makes more sense. They seem to not know or don’t want to order additional product for one application. If they have 100’s of people getting scopes done it’s likely they would have the right product on hand.

 

[Fig]

That's pretty slick!

 

[HeavyAssault]

Well if the colors listed are correct Cerakote doesn’t have a Midnight Bronze in C series. Anyone have an idea for a close kissin’ cousin to Midnight Bronze??

 

[Fig]

Lets see a picture of your gay ass bronze rifle.

Burnt or Vortex Bronze (whatever that's supposed to mean)?

Honestly, it probably doesn't have to be exact to look good.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Lets see a picture of your gay ass bronze rifle.

Burnt or Vortex Bronze (whatever that's supposed to mean)?

Honestly, it probably doesn't have to be exact to look good.

@Fig : Sorry about that. I wasn’t sure what you were saying. Thank you for suggesting other potential matches.


I’ve fitted a Geisselle mount in DDC but it’s much lighter, not in a bad way, just lighter in overall tone.

Midnight Bronze looks like this in the light or direct lighting :

Direct/bright lighting :

 

[LawTalker]

Upon considering to have my optic and mount coated to match the rifle I get this sort of “push back” from applicators. They are saying the process (heating specifically) can cause issues with the optic itself. As I told one guy who was really apprehensive, I get it your process can cause a $1k+ optic to be a brick which isn’t good business.

Is this really that problematic to the optic, or more along “we just don’t like to do optics”??

My gunsmith has said they will cerakote my optics and NV devices but I have to sign a waiver acknowledging the likelihood of damage/destruction of device and accepting the risk that it will not come through the baking process without major problems.

They said it is a 50/50 coin toss if the item will come through the process intact without any damage or loss of function.

In short, I am going to proceed on that. Expert gunsmiths have told me they strongly suggest not proceeding on that, there is a reason I take my items to expert gunsmiths. If I could do my own gunsmithing to the level they do, in the time they do it, I presumably would do it all myself and I wouldn't go to them. Experts that have greater experience, knowledge, and skills, in this area, than I do, have strongly suggested I do not do this. It makes sense to listen and to not do the proposed cerakote.

 

[Jrb572]

Have you tried contacting @Short-bus he does really nice work

 

[HeavyAssault]

@LawTalker : I don’t disagree in whole. Everything you said was what was mentioned to me in some way. I will say in some circles people who put gun/ gun parts together are NOT experts. Yet, as we can see there’s other lines of products that can be used to cover the range of optics getting Cerakote.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Have you tried contacting @Short-bus he does really nice work

Thank you for the point-of-contact. At this point the color isn’t able to be used for a true on match from what I can tell. I realize different batches of the exact color offering can be different. I’m weighing my options.

 

[LawTalker]

@LawTalker : I don’t disagree in whole. Everything you said was what was mentioned to me in some way. I will say in some circles people who put gun/ gun parts together are NOT experts. Yet, as we can see there’s other lines of products that can be used to cover the range of optics getting Cerakote.

Armorers and parts swappers, yeah I would agree are not necessarily experts.

Third generation gunsmiths who are in gunsmithing families going back to the 1950s-1960s who have completed their own apprenticeships and have been doing gunsmithing themselves for 20-25 years, I am going to listen very carefully when they say, "this is a bad idea."

Because of this thread I'm now interested in learning more about air-dry cerakote as opposed to oven baking.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Because of this thread I'm now interested in learning more about air-dry cerakote as opposed to oven baking.

Given how Aluma-Hyde seems to work for a rattle can paint, I’d hope the Cerakote stuff is on point.

 

[Short-bus]

Upon considering to have my optic and mount coated to match the rifle I get this sort of “push back” from applicators. They are saying the process (heating specifically) can cause issues with the optic itself. As I told one guy who was really apprehensive, I get it your process can cause a $1k+ optic to be a brick which isn’t good business.

Is this really that problematic to the optic, or more along “we just don’t like to do optics”??

What optic are you wanting coated that's getting you push back?

Branden

 

[HeavyAssault]

What optic are you wanting coated that's getting you push back?

Branden

It was just a canned response as @LawTalker referenced. Just this…well we need to see it, you will sign a waiver, possible problems…..etc etc etc They didn’t say anything about brands or style.

 

[Short-bus]

For scopes you use the C series air-dry Cerakote and not the H series baked Cerakote.

C SERIES - AIR CURE​

KEY FEATURES​

• Formulated to withstand temperatures up to 1800°F (See individual product descriptions for specific temperature rating)
• Single component, ready to spray
• Direct to substrate - no primer required
• Over 50 colors available
• Excellent UV Stability
• Great option for large or small parts that cannot be oven cured
• Extremely high chemical resistance
• Uses: Automotive, wheels, exhaust systems, firearms, architectural, lighting, hardware, optics and much more

I never like C-series. Sprays glossy, durability isn't there. I did one of my own scopes in c-series early in my painting days. It got scratched up at the Hide cup one year, later that year at the GAP grind it was raining heavily, and the cerakote on the scope was flaking off when the scope was wet, when it was dry, it was fine. It was weird, but it just isn't as durable.

I do lots of scopes in h-series all the time. The trick is temperature management. Cerakote will cure below 150, takes a long time though. Nearly every scope manufacture bakes their scopes between 150 and 200 before they purge them, and seal 'em. The heat pushes moisture out of lubes and seals and then they purge 'em with nitrogen, and seal 'em up. The only ones at this point i'm refusing to do are the fancy ones with built in range finders, or ballistic computers, and night vision/thermals type stuff.

And someone said cerakote was a thick coating....not at all, it's about a .001 to .0015 when applied optimally, even a booger eater could get .003. Krylon is going to be waaaay thicker.

Branden

 

[Terry Cross]

Upon considering to have my optic and mount coated to match the rifle I get this sort of “push back” from applicators. They are saying the process (heating specifically) can cause issues with the optic itself. As I told one guy who was really apprehensive, I get it your process can cause a $1k+ optic to be a brick which isn’t good business.

Is this really that problematic to the optic, or more along “we just don’t like to do optics”??

If you are going to do that, ONLY get someone that does a lot of optics and has a known track record for quality CeraKote work. @Short-bus comes to mind.

I consider myself doing a good job in my narrow lane of coating but I will not do optics or electronics. My concern is not with coating thickness. I can run E-series very uniform and thin. My concerns are with the surface prep (really important) on a delicate optic and temp management. I'm too much of a pussy to go into that end of the pool if I don't need to.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Okay. So it sounds do-able without too much drama. I know batch-to-batch it can vary so I’m not expecting a dead-on match to what’s already done to the rifle. A shade or two to me is fine, prefer a little darker. The Geisselle mount in DDC as a point of reference just stands out. Good color, just not dark/tinted/shaded enough. I got a plan.

 

[Jrb572]

Thank you for the point-of-contact. At this point the color isn’t able to be used for a true on match from what I can tell. I realize different batches of the exact color offering can be different. I’m weighing my options.

I’m going to have to say that some Cerakote is definitely different from batch to batch. I have a Pale Brown AXMC and I can say I’ve gotten ceraKote directly from AI main distributor Mile High and it not match. I am guessing it’s why AI doesn’t offer Pale Brown anymore.

 

[hero's machine]

I'm always nervous about the fine particle management when blasting. I do my best to seal everything.....but it still makes me nervous.

With H series it's easier to match the sheen of the target by playing with hardner and pressure. The cure temp as mentioned can be held lower longer, but that also means tying up the oven for one part and 3x as long.

 

[Cutout]

Cerakote may void your warranty, depending on the scope. Even if it doesn't, certain processes of applying Cerakote such as sandblasting may void the warranty. You might want to check with your scope's manufacturer to see what they have to say about Cerakote and if they have any best practices or tips to avoid causing problems. It would be a shame to end up with a really cool-looking scope that can't hold zero and has a voided warranty.

 

[Fig]

Well shit. I always thought it was thicker than paint, which was part of why it was more durable than paint. Shows you what I know.

I've never even rattle canned a rifle. I guess I just don't care about aesthetics that much (at all), and I've always felt that camouflaging a rifle wasn't that critical (for animals, not humans). None of my shit matches, and I'm good with it. Sort of like the guy who gets to camp with the fully matching Sitka suit like he stepped out of the catalog. That would not be me. My rifles and gear span decades, and they look like it.

 

[pangris]

Air dry only for optics. Color may not be a perfect match. Life goes on. Drag through woods and scratch it up.

"Don't bake your scope"

- Wise man

I have switched to self applied rattle can exclusively, even for high end guns and optics. Be smart, mask off lenses and tolerance/moving parts etc and have fun - go shoot.

 

[LeftyJason]

I know @CSTactical will coat scopes but I don't know who they use or what method.

(my 5000th post!)

 

[CSTactical]

I know @CSTactical will coat scopes but I don't know who they use or what method.

(my 5000th post!)

Unfortunately our Cerakoting is put on hold

 

[johnnyvw]

Duracoat has a "midnight bronze" that is air cure, can get it for spray gun or even rattle can. Might want to see how close it matches Ceracoat.

https://duracoatfirearmfinishes.com/duracoat-metal-collection-liquid

 

[hero's machine]

I threw a duracoated action in the ultrasonic cleaner with dawn and a tiny bit of citric acid and it peeled the whole thing in 6 minutes.

 

[SmokeyJoe101]

Upon considering to have my optic and mount coated to match the rifle I get this sort of “push back” from applicators. They are saying the process (heating specifically) can cause issues with the optic itself. As I told one guy who was really apprehensive, I get it your process can cause a $1k+ optic to be a brick which isn’t good business.

Is this really that problematic to the optic, or more along “we just don’t like to do optics”??

On the Athlon site they talk about the coating and their warranty would be voided unless you used a specific vendor. so they must know a company with a proven record

 

[stefan73]

If you are going to do that, ONLY get someone that does a lot of optics and has a known track record for quality CeraKote work. @Short-bus comes to mind.

I consider myself doing a good job in my narrow lane of coating but I will not do optics or electronics. My concern is not with coating thickness. I can run E-series very uniform and thin. My concerns are with the surface prep (really important) on a delicate optic and temp management. I'm too much of a pussy to go into that end of the pool if I don't need to.

Terry, hopefully I can get Branden down to visit again and shoot a match with us in Leesville.

I took this picture (sorry my picture isn't very good) of a rifle and optic Branden aka @Short-bus painted about 10 years ago. I always wondered what happened to that rifle?