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changing zero

OldmaninNeb

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 3, 2009
192
0
Nebraska
So is there a consistency between temperature and zero? I went out yesterday and found zero @ 100 yards, then .5mil for 150 yards and .7mil for 200. Today, it got up in the lower 70's and became .3 mil for 150 and .8 for 200!
any comments?
 
Re: changing zero

Hot air = less dense than cold air. Cold air = harder to push through = quicker bullet drop. Simplified terms of course. Thats why planes fly better in the cold since the air is thicker and they can turn sharper since there is more air to push against.
 
Re: changing zero

The Air normally needs a bit of time to act on the bullet, at 100 yards it usually requires a pretty serious swing to move the round, especially more than a bullet width from its original zero. At 100 yards its normally a situation of powder temp swinging, and with today's powders which are not temperature sensitive you have to go to extremes to move it. Like more than 40 degrees.

So while temperature / barometric pressure and all that does effect the bullet, it normally does not show up until past 300 yards or so because it has to have time to act.
 
Re: changing zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is there a consistency between temperature and zero? I went out yesterday and found zero @ 100 yards, then .5mil for 150 yards and .7mil for 200. Today, it got up in the lower 70's and became .3 mil for 150 and .8 for 200!
any comments? </div></div>
First I hate you for having 70 degree weather right now and Second the info in here is correct. You can also see this in a visable way when there is a vapor trail(not bullet trace)This is what I'm told anyways
 
Re: changing zero

yeah there is a difference in hits between temp, baro pressure, humidity, altitude especially at 100yards and with a rimfire that effect the flight of the bullet as the air is "thicker or thinner". where it's zeroed today, may not be the same next month.

i my data book, i generally split the info into 3 seasons:

i usually do my data book in three seasons, summer 85deg. , winter 35deg., fall/spring 55deg. for each caliber

i figure on a cool summer night or day, i refer to the fall/ spring data, if a cold fall or spring night / day i flip to winter, bring it close enough for center mass.

within each season, there is all of the below, going in sequence:

ranging / distance

drop data.

wind data.

then cosine data, if applicable.

there are even more subtle differences, but it gets it in the neighborhood for a center mass type shot or slight adjustments for more precise target shooting.

this is an example of just what the temp of the ammo itself can do:
Effects of ammo temperature itself - not air temp

not only did group size differ, but the POI too.

i'd used to keep data for every 5 degree increment, but it got just too time consuming whipping out the "bible sized" book to look it up, so the seasonal condensing of it made it more convienant, at least for me.

without taking temp and other environmentals into consideration, the results almost get you into the panic mode and asking yourself is it due to the scope possibly being off, is there other damage, etc. at 200 yards, the differences could lead to a several inch difference in POI.


with centerfires at 100, it's hardly noticeable, but with rimfires it starts showing up around 75 yards noticeably.
 
Re: changing zero

I agree with what is posted here. I do have one question for Franks comments. He may be exactly right about the range it shows up, as that is my expirence exactly for centerfires. I THINK I see it closer for rimfires. Not positive but it seems to be so for me.
 
Re: changing zero

I'll go with DFOOSKING. I have seen about 1-2 minutes difference from summer to winter. Not hard to compensate for if you use a summer trajectory as a base. Just add 1.5 minutes in the winter.
I use a turret label, so I am able to mark both summer(red) and winter (blue) trajectories. With my new scope, the winter will get marked first, and then summer, since it is cold out.
 
Re: changing zero

wow... the things ya learn in here! OK, (shooting the 17HMR) adding temperature to the data... another odd thing I noticed, was as I moved out (from 150 to 220) my wind adjustment remained the same! don't suppose that'll lhappen very often, but was an interesting note at the time.
thanx for the comments, my goal is to get my cheat card close enough to dead on to tape to stock.
 
Re: changing zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with what is posted here. I do have one question for Franks comments. He may be exactly right about the range it shows up, as that is my expirence exactly for centerfires. I THINK I see it closer for rimfires. Not positive but it seems to be so for me. </div></div>

I didn't realize it was posted in the rimfire section, so forget what I said there.
 
Re: changing zero

For many years when I was shooting benchrest and other disciplines, we used something borrowed from motorcycle and racecar mechanics. But it actually started with airplane and helicopter pilots. Air “density altitude” is what we used to record and use as reference for repeating a zero. If you really want to know more about it, do a Google search. Some of the newer shooting wind & temperature devices also have a button that reads in “density altitude”. We had to use a chart and figure the temperature, humidity and / or barometric pressure to come up with a sometimes usable number. I can’t remember now exactly what figures we used.

I hope this helps.
 
Re: changing zero

Had the same thing happen yesterday. My guess is if the wind stays the same, the angle of correction would increase with the distance... wasn't a lot of wind anyway, 3-5,mph, but once I adjusted for it, it held .