Chargemaster programming and slightly off

T

timelinex

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • May 7, 2011
    1,382
    33
    Scottsdale,Az
    #1
    I had 2 questions about the chargemaster. It was dead on compared to my beam scale when I was doing my 223 load of around 23 grains.

    Yesterday I was reloading for my 338 and with 92.8gr of retumbo, I had to set it at 92.7 to equal my 92.8 on my 505 beam scale. Is there something wrong with the chargemaster, or is it relatively normal for it to be off by that much? I know repeatablility wise, there isn't anything more accurate than a beam scale, however its possible for the beam scale proportions to be off as well. So is it more likely that my beam scale is off or the chargemaster??

    The other thing is that I changed all the programming fields to speed up the throwing. It worked great for my 223 load, but I seem to have overdone it for the 90gr range. Which of the fields is for the 90gr range, is it the SSP trio or the MSP trio?
     
    #2
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    Old school balance beam should be accurate, zero it, check it with check weights, if checks good, the beam scale is your standard. The same cannot be said for a Chargemaster, I suspect changing the settings worked great with a low charge but is not optimized for the large 338 charge, reset back to factory and try again, use the beam scale as your yeah or nay.
     
    #3
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    Maybe I'm misreading your question, but you seem to be wondering if its normal for the rcbs to be off by .1 grains?? That's as accurate as its gonna get. With the rcbs, if the actual weight is 92.75 it will display 92.8.
     
    #4
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thor2j</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With the rcbs, if the actual weight is 92.75 it will display 92.8. </div></div>
    Thor, where is your info coming from?

    TL, Cobra is right on the check weights, once you verify the charge, really doesn't matter what it reads. And .1 gr isn't much in a 90gr charge,IMHO.
    The powder kernal size of retumbo will make the scale seem less accurate than smaller kernal, or ball powder.

    By the way, if you want me to type your full username, you'll have to get rid of that gay corvette pic in your sig line!
     
    #5
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thor2j</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With the rcbs, if the actual weight is 92.75 it will display 92.8. </div></div>
    Thor, where is your info coming from?

    TL, Cobra is right on the check weights, once you verify the charge, really doesn't matter what it reads. And .1 gr isn't much in a 90gr charge,IMHO.
    The powder kernal size of retumbo will make the scale seem less accurate than smaller kernal, or ball powder.

    By the way, if you want me to type your full username, you'll have to get rid of that gay corvette pic in your sig line! </div></div>

    These low grade scales have resolutions of .1 grain and accuracy levels of +/- .1 grain, so they 'can' be off by a total spread of .2 grains total.

    My CM can float between XX.1 and XX.2, but the only way to know for sure is to get a 'graded' check weight set and see.

    Actual weight of the above, could be between XX.0-XX.2, or XX.1-XX.3, ultimately.

    Chris
     
    #6
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    Thank Chris,
    I was just questioning why the scale would under-read, I've had 3 CM's, by the scale, it barely throws an undercharge.

    My scale weights only go to 58.7gr, so I can only verify to that weight, need more I know. Being published as accurate to +.1 or -.1, I don't doubt that part. I can live with that.

    To me, knowing what your scale pan weighs is the key, if that fluctuates, you know you're going to be off with the charge, keep zeroing it so it stays the same, charge to charge, day to day!
     
    #7
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank Chris,
    I was just questioning why the scale would under-read, I've had 3 CM's, by the scale, it barely throws an undercharge.

    My scale weights only go to 58.7gr, so I can only verify to that weight, need more I know. Being published as accurate to +.1 or -.1, I don't doubt that part. I can live with that.

    To me, knowing what your scale pan weighs is the key, if that fluctuates, you know you're going to be off with the charge, keep zeroing it so it stays the same, charge to charge, day to day! </div></div>

    I've had my CM1500 since late '05, IIRC and it can be a bit flighty at times, not settling down right away, but for the most part it's been pretty much right on with my cheapo check weight set and the two 50gram weights that it comes with and even another 50gram check weight that I got with another scale.

    When it acts up, I do unplug it, like a computer and then reboot it and start over.

    We call them 'precision devices' but they're at the lower end of the precision scale game, IMO.

    My pan seems to be right in the middle of the resolution, so one day it will read 171.1 and another day it might be 171.0, but I live with it and calibrate it often, even during the same reloading session.

    I do a lot of 338LM and 7RM, so I'm bouncing between that 60gr and 90gr range, for reference.

    Chris
     
    #8
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thor2j</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With the rcbs, if the actual weight is 92.75 it will display 92.8. </div></div>
    Thor, where is your info coming from?

    TL, Cobra is right on the check weights, once you verify the charge, really doesn't matter what it reads. And .1 gr isn't much in a 90gr charge,IMHO.
    The powder kernal size of retumbo will make the scale seem less accurate than smaller kernal, or ball powder.

    By the way, if you want me to type your full username, you'll have to get rid of that gay corvette pic in your sig line!</div></div>
    Hell no! Its my corvette and its sexy, so why would I not have it in my sig line!

    Anyways, you guys are right. It plays correctly into the fact that the accuracy is rated at +-.1 . I guess I just thought of that more as the resolution it shows, but in reality it also means it can be fully skewed by that much as well.

     
    #9
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    First off, .1gr on a 93gr charge is .11%

    ...just a tick over one tenth of one percent...

    fuggetabottitt

    However, if you really care... When you do your beam scale dance and are happy the beam is reading properly, file a quarter (or similar) down until it reads dead nuts for whatever your magic chargeweight is. Keep that quarter in a ziplock bag and pull it out on occassion to check your chargemaster.
     
    #10
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, .1gr on a 93gr charge is .11%

    ...just a tick over one tenth of one percent...

    fuggetabottitt

    However, if you really care... When you do your beam scale dance and are happy the beam is reading properly, file a quarter (or similar) down until it reads dead nuts for whatever your magic chargeweight is. Keep that quarter in a ziplock bag and pull it out on occassion to check your chargemaster. </div></div>

    Good idea. Is a quarter resistant to decaying over time, once you pierce coating? For example, I know a penny is coated and the inside is more unstable.

    As for .1gr not making a difference... I will have to disagree. When I tested it across a chrono, from my small analysis there was a difference in .1gr and velocities. I didn't test enough to conclude anything confidently, but considering how many rounds I fire a month, its not a big deal.

    If we were talking about 308/223 and most other calibers, I would agree.... However, when I am planning on shooting the 338 at over 2000 yards, I need all the consistency I can get.
     
    #11
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, .1gr on a 93gr charge is .11%

    ...just a tick over one tenth of one percent...

    fuggetabottitt

    However, if you really care... When you do your beam scale dance and are happy the beam is reading properly, file a quarter (or similar) down until it reads dead nuts for whatever your magic chargeweight is. Keep that quarter in a ziplock bag and pull it out on occassion to check your chargemaster. </div></div>

    Good idea. Is a quarter resistant to decaying over time, once you pierce coating? For example, I know a penny is coated and the inside is more unstable.

    As for .1gr not making a difference... I will have to disagree. When I tested it across a chrono, from my small analysis there was a difference in .1gr and velocities. I didn't test enough to conclude anything confidently, but considering how many rounds I fire a month, its not a big deal.

    If we were talking about 308/223 and most other calibers, I would agree.... However, when I am planning on shooting the 338 at over 2000 yards, I need all the consistency I can get. </div></div>

    So you are disagreeing with a .11% in powder variation not making a difference with your .5% variation in most chronographs??? Hmmmmmm......
     
    #12
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thor2j</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, .1gr on a 93gr charge is .11%

    ...just a tick over one tenth of one percent...

    fuggetabottitt

    However, if you really care... When you do your beam scale dance and are happy the beam is reading properly, file a quarter (or similar) down until it reads dead nuts for whatever your magic chargeweight is. Keep that quarter in a ziplock bag and pull it out on occassion to check your chargemaster. </div></div>

    Good idea. Is a quarter resistant to decaying over time, once you pierce coating? For example, I know a penny is coated and the inside is more unstable.

    As for .1gr not making a difference... I will have to disagree. When I tested it across a chrono, from my small analysis there was a difference in .1gr and velocities. I didn't test enough to conclude anything confidently, but considering how many rounds I fire a month, its not a big deal.

    If we were talking about 308/223 and most other calibers, I would agree.... However, when I am planning on shooting the 338 at over 2000 yards, I need all the consistency I can get. </div></div>

    So you are disagreeing with a .11% in powder variation not making a difference with your .5% variation in most chronographs??? Hmmmmmm......</div></div>

    What I am saying is that when I went in .1 gr increments I had different averages. What I also acknowledged is that the differences are well within the accuracy error of a chronograph, and the sample size was not big enough to actually matter. Then I noted that I do not use many rounds of 338lm considering the nature of the shooting, so I don't mind spending the extra time on each round, for the chance that it does make a difference.

    Clear now?
     
    #13
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    When you tune the cm to a particular case family that same custom prog. is not going to work well or sometimes not at all in another family as you have already seen.

    223 case find setting yours likes write it down.

    308 case family find settings your likes write it down.

    Etc etc. And the only way your ever gonna KNOW for sure is to get a scale that will read .01 as a check.

    Ps make sure you write your orig. Settings down!!!!

    Chargemasters are great machines they just need a little petting to find out what they like and they may not always be the best stand alone answer for a particular application,but they are GREAT machines when tuned propperly.
     
    #14
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    Never had a problem with mine, I do calibrate and check with check weights ranging from .5 to 5grns every time I load....
    I do leave it plugged in but turned off when not in use.
    D
     
    #15
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    I also have a chargemaster and agree with most of what has been said about them here.

    I will however strongly disagree with any conclusions that you can tell any difference in .1 gram difference in charge weights. If you are serious about shooting 2000 yards, check into intel from folks that shoot Camp Perry and such and check into info. about PALMA--I can tell you that a lot of those guys use powder 'Throwers' and they absolutely <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span>hold .1 variance in charge weight.
    As one othe poster stated, if you really want to know what your scale(s) are doing you need one that reads to .01 to check. I Have one BTW and it tells me that my Chargemaster holds to it's .1 tolerance,if you know how to use it---for example, it routinely throws .2-.3 over when auto-dispensing, I just watch it closely, and pull the pan with the charge in it and place it back on the scale, and then watch for what weight it displays. YMMV
     
    #16
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fish301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also have a chargemaster and agree with most of what has been said about them here.

    I will however strongly disagree with any conclusions that you can tell any difference in .1 gram difference in charge weights. If you are serious about shooting 2000 yards, check into intel from folks that shoot Camp Perry and such and check into info. about PALMA--I can tell you that a lot of those guys use powder 'Throwers' and they absolutely <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span>hold .1 variance in charge weight.
    As one othe poster stated, if you really want to know what your scale(s) are doing you need one that reads to .01 to check. I Have one BTW and it tells me that my Chargemaster holds to it's .1 tolerance,if you know how to use it---for example, it routinely throws .2-.3 over when auto-dispensing, I just watch it closely, and pull the pan with the charge in it and place it back on the scale, and then watch for what weight it displays. YMMV </div></div>

    I'm not positive what your referring to , but if I am understanding correctly, PALMA shooters and camp perry dont regulary shoot to over a mile?? I was also under the impression that MOST of the 1000+ yard guys weigh charges and that powder throwing is reserved to benchrest at 100 yards. This is from memory, so I might be wrong.
     
    #17
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off


    By the way, if you want me to type your full username, you'll have to get rid of that gay corvette pic in your sig line![/quote]


    Lol. Now that's funny. Milo has really adapted well to the "ball buster" attitude that goes w/ this site. Milo, remember " appologies show weakness".
     
    #18
    Re: Chargemaster programming and slightly off

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fish301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also have a chargemaster and agree with most of what has been said about them here.

    I will however strongly disagree with any conclusions that you can tell any difference in .1 gram difference in charge weights. If you are serious about shooting 2000 yards, check into intel from folks that shoot Camp Perry and such and check into info. about PALMA--I can tell you that a lot of those guys use powder 'Throwers' and they absolutely <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span>hold .1 variance in charge weight.
    As one othe poster stated, if you really want to know what your scale(s) are doing you need one that reads to .01 to check. I Have one BTW and it tells me that my Chargemaster holds to it's .1 tolerance,if you know how to use it---for example, it routinely throws .2-.3 over when auto-dispensing, I just watch it closely, and pull the pan with the charge in it and place it back on the scale, and then watch for what weight it displays. YMMV </div></div>

    by <span style="font-weight: bold">gram </span> you mean grain

    chargemasters much like a rifle guaranteed to shoot 1/2 moa many times will perform much better when tuned.

    i dont go by what i hear , this is tested fact

    IMAG0999.jpg
     
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