Chasing the Lands.

[Yote Klr]

How many of you seat the bullet out further as the throat erodes ?

How many of you do seating depth test and keep COAL the same throughout the life of the barrel without any accuracy loss?

How many don't care?

I chase the lands on most every barrel I've ever had, but I hear reports that a couple of guys who believe thar once an optimal seating depth is found the barrel keeps its tune at that depth regardless of actual bullet jump.

 

[Mxridr]

Chase it.

 

[Anthonyc]

Dont have a rifle that’s needed chasing yet or at least I don’t think. I typically only do seating depth changes when I change bullet lot #s or brand. Good for me to know what others do as well!

 

[Deleted member 10043]

About half way through estimated barrel life if there is a problem. I just finished 500 in the lands high pressure rounds and the CBTO didn't change. What changed was primers started falling out on extraction.

 

[47guy]

I chase the lands....My 6cm at 450 rounds has lost .010 off the lands..

Left dot is .020 off

Center is originally load that was .020 off but add the lost .010 and it was actually.030 off and threw it off

Right is .015 off

This load is right on the ragged edge so it don’t take much to throw it off.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I chase the lands....My 6cm at 450 rounds has lost .010 off the lands..

Left dot is .020 off

Center is originally load that was .020 off but add the lost .010 and it was actually.030 off and threw it off

Right is .015 off

This load is right on the ragged edge so it don’t take much to throw it off.

Is that a standard SAAMI chamber?

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

My experiences with 1800+ rounds this PRS season through my first custom build and barrel has taught me the importance of this. If I keep my 140 ELDs at .020” - .035” off the lands I get sub-.5 moa groups. Around 1500 rounds there was erosion of ~.040” which opened jump from my original load to over .070” and groups opened to 1.5 moa. Now I am measuring the throat each time the lot of match brass is reloaded and adjust jump accordingly. Also switching to ARC magazines there is about .050” more room to grow and still fit and feed properly.

 

[Mxridr]

That is the benefit of elds they are not as sensitive to seating depth.

 

[blackops_1]

I plan to chase the lands on my new 223 Wylde build. This is my first serious foray into precision shooting so I'll be following along and learning.

 

[spife7980]

That is the benefit of elds they are not as sensitive to seating depth.

Only the ELDs are a secant design and as such are more sensitive to seating depth changes than tangent designed bullets.

I chase the lands. If you dont your loads will stop shooting as well after enough erosion.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Depends on how far the magazine will let me seat. I'll chase them as far as that will allow.

 

[65shootmoor]

Haven't had to chase it yet, but my SMK's don't seem to care where they are seated. I've tried about 7 different lengths and it didn't matter.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Thank you.

 

[47guy]

Is that a standard SAAMI chamber?

no...its a shorter freebore .109...this reamer.....

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[Yote Klr]

Just to add, I do have one rifle that I never chase the lands. 270 Weatherby, it has standard .375" freebore. I really can't measure jump because the bearing surface is out of the case neck when it reaches the lands.
This rifle has exactly 590

rounds fired.
Group shot at 200 yards from a hunting bag.

 

[47guy]

That is the benefit of elds they are not as sensitive to seating depth.

this depends on what your accuracy expectations are...i shot 140ELDs in my 6.5x47 and did not like them because they were sensitive in that gun.

Haven't had to chase it yet, but my SMK's don't seem to care where they are seated. I've tried about 7 different lengths and it didn't matter.

same thing here...ive shot a truck load of sierras and more than .010-.015 off my load would open up over an inch +.

 

[47guy]

Just to add, I do have one rifle that I never chase the lands. 270 Weatherby, it has standard .375" freebore. I really can't measure jump because the bearing surface is out of the case neck when it reaches the lands.
This rifle has exactly 590 View attachment 7118252rounds fired.
Group shot at 200 yards from a hunting bag.

if you are ok with that gun shooting those groups thats great but i personally would not be and this is where the different accuracy expectations come into play.

 

[Yote Klr]

if you are ok with that gun shooting those groups thats great but i personally would not be and this is where the different accuracy expectations come into play.

It's just over 1/2 moa for 6 shots from a hunting bag. I'm ok.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Only the ELDs are a secant design and as such are more sensitive to seating depth changes than tangent designed bullets.
View attachment 7118109



I chase the lands. If you dont your loads will stop shooting as well after enough erosion.

Not entirely true, with enough erosion you'll most likely get a pressure dump-velocity loss. With hybrids, you can bring it back in with more powder, or go to a faster powder w/o a seat depth adjustment.
Some bullets like Berger vld's and for me the Hornady eld's you end up chasing the lands the life of the barrel. I do not shoot these bullets anymore.

 

[47guy]

It's just over 1/2 moa for 6 shots from a hunting bag. I'm ok.

Not bad... and I was not knocking your gun or groups.

 

[47guy]

Not entirely true, with enough erosion you'll most likely get a pressure dump-velocity loss. With hybrids, you can bring it back in with more powder, or go to a faster powder w/o a seat depth adjustment.
Some bullets like Berger vld's and for me the Hornady eld's you end up chasing the lands the life of the barrel. I do not shoot these bullets anymore.

This is why I don’t like the ELDs as well any VLD.

With the load I’m shooting now(105 hybrids)the seating depth is important...it will not shoot much past
.020 off and .015 is the sweet spot....at .010 off it opens up but I’m running on the ragged edge and know this.

I figure at 700 rounds i will be revisiting seating and will most likely be adding .2g to keep this barrel shooting.

 

[65shootmoor]

this depends on what your accuracy expectations are...i shot 140ELDs in my 6.5x47 and did not like them because they were sensitive in that gun.




same thing here...ive shot a truck load of sierras and more than .010-.015 off my load would open up over an inch +.

Are you saying you had a bad experience? Mine have been perfect.

 

[47guy]

Are you saying you had a bad experience? Mine have been perfect.

Not exact...they were just a pain in the ass to get to shoot and keep shooting...they shot great when they shot but 140 hybrids shot way better and easier to tune.

I know 2 other guys with the same experience.

 

[Steel head]

My last barrel on my 260 I Never changed oal, I just added powder to keep speed up.

This was shooting hybrids and ELD’ms.

At then end of it life the jump was considerable.

I loved that barrel!

 

[Milo 2.5]

Not exact...they were just a pain in the ass to get to shoot and keep shooting...they shot great when they shot but 140 hybrids shot way better and easier to tune.

I know 2 other guys with the same experience.

I tried 6.5mm 140gr ELD M's, every 150 rds I had to re-tune seat depth, like clockwork. The load and vertical remained stable, actually the best I've ever had match up to a kestrel or app, it held. But horizontal movement, like a kick in the dick in every 135 rds, because it takes a few shots to realize that YOU are not hat bad, lol. Left, correct, right, correct, left, etc.....

 

[b6graham]

if accuracy falls off and it's not a cleaning interval. remeasure and adjust.

 

[65shootmoor]

Not exact...they were just a pain in the ass to get to shoot and keep shooting...they shot great when they shot but 140 hybrids shot way better and easier to tune.

I know 2 other guys with the same experience.

It's amazing how much different performance can be between barrels. I only picked them because they measured/weighed more consistently. That was 1,200 1/2moa or better rounds ago. Honestly, it would probably do the same with anything.

 

[47guy]

I tried 6.5mm 140gr ELD M's, every 150 rds I had to re-tune seat depth, like clockwork. The load and vertical remained stable, actually the best I've ever had match up to a kestrel or app, it held. But horizontal movement, like a kick in the dick in every 135 rds, because it takes a few shots to realize that YOU are not hat bad, lol. Left, correct, right, correct, left, etc.....

almost same experience with the ELDs....and every hornady bullet ive shot...they just do not shoot consistent enough for me.
ive shot just about every bullet out there at one time or another including customs and when it comes to price vs performance i always end up back with berger...they just work.

 

[47guy]

It's amazing how much different performance can be between barrels. I only picked them because they measured/weighed more consistently. That was 1,200 1/2moa or better rounds ago. Honestly, it would probably do the same with anything.

if that gun has 1200 through it and still shooting 1/2" thats damn good!! Weatherby has always been known for the LONG throats and huge jumps...i dont know why but it just works in their guns.

 

[65shootmoor]

if that gun has 1200 through it and still shooting 1/2" thats damn good!! Weatherby has always been known for the LONG throats and huge jumps...i dont know why but it just works in their guns.

It has a bit more than that, probably around 1,500 total. I've just mainly shot Sierra's the whole time. It's an MPA barrel. I've wanted to try Bergers, I really have, but I just haven't been able to justify the extra cost versus what results I get.

 

[morganlamprecht]

almost same experience with the ELDs....and every hornady bullet ive shot...they just do not shoot consistent enough for me.
ive shot just about every bullet out there at one time or another including customs and when it comes to price vs performance i always end up back with berger...they just work.

same here...i used to use amax's in '14-'15...switched to 130 hybrids in '16, noticed the consistency downrange immediately, shot them for a year, then 140 hybrids for about 6 months...same thing

last year, switched back to 140 eld's...much less consistent over multiple matches and range trips...went back to 130 hybrids a couple months ago before the NM match, consistency right back

the differences werent huge, prolly easier to tell shooting paper...but even on steel, with the bergers once i nail the wind, its almost a given with follow ups...the hornadys i always had a few random "hmmm...." in there

 

[47guy]

It has a bit more than that, probably around 1,500 total. I've just mainly shot Sierra's the whole time. It's an MPA barrel. I've wanted to try Bergers, I really have, but I just haven't been able to justify the extra cost versus what results I get.

as well as they are working id just shoot it.

 

[47guy]

same here...i used to used amax's in '14-'15...switched to 130 hybrids in '16, noticed the consistency downrange immediately, shot them for a year, then 140 hybrids for about 6 months...same thing

last year, switched back to 140 eld's...much less consistent over multiple matches and range trips...went back to 130 hybrids a couple months ago before the NM match, consistency right back

the differences werent huge, prolly easier to tell shooting paper...but even on steel, with the bergers once i nail the wind, its almost a given with follow ups...the hornadys i always had a few random "hmmm...." in there

same thing here....ive strayed away from bergers a couple of times for different reasons...one was price the other was availability and both times i kicked myself in the ass because my scores went to shit...when i switch back to bergers my score go normal again.
now i just keep enough around for 2 barrels and when i burn up one lot i replace them...if they are not instock at the time im covered until they are.

 

[65shootmoor]

I'm going to do that once I finish picking my final load. I've been trying out the A-Tips, but they will need to do something stellar out past a grand to make me switch from the SMK's.

 

[47guy]

I'm going to do that once I finish picking my final load. I've been trying out the A-Tips, but they will need to do something stellar out past a grand to make me switch from the SMK's.

they wont.

 

[Milo 2.5]

they wont.

It's hard not to hit the buy button though, a guy needs a refresher every 2 yrs, lol

 

[Jack's Dad]

It seems that a lot of folks bag on Hornady but they've worked phenomenally for my crew.

 

[47guy]

It's hard not to hit the buy button though, a guy needs a refresher every 2 yrs, lol

ive had them in my cart 5-6 times LOL.

 

[47guy]

It seems that a lot of folks bag on Hornady but they've worked phenomenally for my crew.

what type of shooting does your crew do and how big are your targets?

 

[Jack's Dad]

Mostly off a bench with small targets usually 1200 to 2000 yards. Our mile Target is 3.5x12 inches and 12" ring at 2000.

 

[morganlamprecht]

lol i bet the hit ratio is 90-95% easy...

 

[47guy]

Mostly off a bench with small targets usually 1200 to 2000 yards. Our mile Target is 3.5x12 inches and 12" ring at 2000.

if your hitting those targets consistently at those distances with hornady bullets im impressed...ive NEVER had that kinda luck with them in a 300wm..260rem..6.5x47..6BR..6CM..6BRX...i shot 800 hornady bullets through a 6.5 criterion and NEVER found a load.

 

[47guy]

lol i bet the hit ratio is 90-95% easy...

EASILY!

 

[Yote Klr]

if that gun has 1200 through it and still shooting 1/2" thats damn good!! Weatherby has always been known for the LONG throats and huge jumps...i dont know why but it just works in their guns.

Roy Weatherby had an ingenious design, the freebore diameter (ID) is speced .0005" over caliber. This guides the bullet squarely into the lands. Where as conventional cartridges' freebore ID is several thousandths bigger than caliber. I only have one Weatherby cartridge, 590 HOT rounds shot but the borescope shows that the start of the rifling has no fire cracking at all.

 

[spife7980]

It also has 2.942-2.564=.378” of freebore which is what the weatherbys are really known for: their long ass throats.

 

[Yote Klr]

This enables higher velocities without initial pressure spike. That itself was his intent as a magnum hunting cartridge .

 

[Yote Klr]

It also has 2.942-2.564=.378” of freebore which is what the weatherbys are really known for: their long ass throats.

Thats what I contribute for the throat preservation in my particular barrel.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Thats what I contribute for the throat preservation in my particular barrel.

When you say throat preservation, you speaking of the looks of it or have you measured throat erosion? I guess I've never read where a Weatherby case had great barrel life in general. Most chamberings go south after so much erosion and pressures cannot be maintained, and IMO Weatherby starts in negative in that aspect.
I have pulled barrels that have LOOKED great through a borescope, but seemingly were done. Right now I am shooting a Dasher that the first 4" of the barrel has looked like shit since the first 500 rds down it, still hammering at 1100 rds.
I chalk a lot of this up to barrel steel.

 

[Yote Klr]

Just to add, I do have one rifle that I never chase the lands. 270 Weatherby, it has standard .375" freebore. I really can't measure jump because the bearing surface is out of the case neck when it reaches the lands.
This rifle has exactly 590 View attachment 7118252rounds fired.
Group shot at 200 yards from a hunting bag.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I see what you are saying, makes sense. My first 7 saum was the same, I had the barrel set back at 1900 rds, took 3" off it, it was a 30" barrel so I still had 27" left.
Smith said there was an inch and a half of smoothbore and it still shot like crazy. I can say, that is not the norm though, more like an anomaly.