I was thinking of building an AR, but am considering a lower priced, complete gun. I am seriously considering the S&W M&P 15 Sport. It looks like a great deal for an entry level AR. I like that it has a 1/8 twist. It will primarily be used for home defense and plinking. I spent many years carrying an M-16 & M-4, and really like and miss the platform. So, does anyone have experience with the Smith? I want the good, bad, and ugly. Also, can anyone recommend another good option at around the same price point? Thanks.
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Cheap, but good entry level AR
- Thread starter FatboyStew
- Start date
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong.
There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Haha, I like your post. I have had enough time in the sand box, and don't plan on invading anybody in the near future, so I will probably get the smith. Thanks for the reply.
Haha, I like your post. I have had enough time in the sand box, and don't plan on invading anybody in the near future, so I will probably get the smith. Thanks for the reply.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
FatboyStew,
You might also want to take a gander at Palmetto State Armory's offerings. I've never shot one myself, but they seem to be made pretty well and if you buy their PSA-15 (or whatever it's called), you get a nice Aimpoint Pro too.
FatboyStew,
You might also want to take a gander at Palmetto State Armory's offerings. I've never shot one myself, but they seem to be made pretty well and if you buy their PSA-15 (or whatever it's called), you get a nice Aimpoint Pro too.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Smiths are great out of the box rifles. I have shot a total of 3 different rifles and have sold many with no returns. We cooked one smith with a slide fire just to see what the gun could take and it did very well. No malfunctions after 600 rounds of 30 round mag dumps! The hand guard does get rather hot though ha ha!
Smiths are great out of the box rifles. I have shot a total of 3 different rifles and have sold many with no returns. We cooked one smith with a slide fire just to see what the gun could take and it did very well. No malfunctions after 600 rounds of 30 round mag dumps! The hand guard does get rather hot though ha ha!
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
+1 on RRA. I've had several. Great rifles. Just upgraded this week to a Colt Competition.
+1 on RRA. I've had several. Great rifles. Just upgraded this week to a Colt Competition.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong. </div></div>
When you say 'Smith' are you talking S&W?
I have both a S&W M&P and a RRA Entry Operator. Both are good rifles and fairly cheap. I think at the time M&Ps were made by Panther or someone else, S&W may make them themselves now. They are both good entry point ARs, especially if you are not sure what you want but want to determine your exact wants prior to building one yourself at a later date. RRA comes with a good trigger right out of the box, the M&P doesn't. However the quad rail on the M&P is better than the RRA, at least when I bought both a few years ago. One personal peeve I had with the RRA was the gap between the top rail and quad rail that threw off the rail interval. I understand they may have changed the style of barrel nut they used to change this, but a I am not sure of that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong. </div></div>
When you say 'Smith' are you talking S&W?
I have both a S&W M&P and a RRA Entry Operator. Both are good rifles and fairly cheap. I think at the time M&Ps were made by Panther or someone else, S&W may make them themselves now. They are both good entry point ARs, especially if you are not sure what you want but want to determine your exact wants prior to building one yourself at a later date. RRA comes with a good trigger right out of the box, the M&P doesn't. However the quad rail on the M&P is better than the RRA, at least when I bought both a few years ago. One personal peeve I had with the RRA was the gap between the top rail and quad rail that threw off the rail interval. I understand they may have changed the style of barrel nut they used to change this, but a I am not sure of that.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong. </div></div>
Well said!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong. </div></div>
Well said!
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong. </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's going to be a lot of guys posting after me telling you that (basically) anything other than POF or Noveske is garbage. For 98% of us...the Smith Sport will work just fine and dandy. Unless you plan on invading Normandy or being a contractor in god-knows-where-istan, save your money, get the Smith, shoot the piss out of it, and enjoy it. For casual use, you can't go wrong. </div></div>
+1
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
I recently purchased the M&P sport and am very satisfied. I use it as my coyote/varmint gun and it works very well. I have only put about 40 rounds through it and they have all been flawless. accuracy seems to be good although I have not done full load workup yet. For my intended purpose the smith is perfect.
I recently purchased the M&P sport and am very satisfied. I use it as my coyote/varmint gun and it works very well. I have only put about 40 rounds through it and they have all been flawless. accuracy seems to be good although I have not done full load workup yet. For my intended purpose the smith is perfect.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Thanks for all of the input. I took a look at the PSA, and it looks like a good deal for what you get. However, it's about $500 more than a S&W. Still, it may be worth saving up for.
Thanks for all of the input. I took a look at the PSA, and it looks like a good deal for what you get. However, it's about $500 more than a S&W. Still, it may be worth saving up for.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
im sure the sport is a good rifle cuz i had the 15-22 for a while and put a couple thousand .22 rounds threw it and it was really fun, just sold it though cuz i want a full size AR, i was lookin at the sport and i dont like how it doesnt have a forward assist,
i like the m&p15 tactical alot better, they prob shoot the same i just like the forward assist and the quad rail
http://www.ammoland.com/2010/11/22/smith-wesson-mp15-tactical-rifles/#axzz227rF0lWg
im sure the sport is a good rifle cuz i had the 15-22 for a while and put a couple thousand .22 rounds threw it and it was really fun, just sold it though cuz i want a full size AR, i was lookin at the sport and i dont like how it doesnt have a forward assist,
i like the m&p15 tactical alot better, they prob shoot the same i just like the forward assist and the quad rail
http://www.ammoland.com/2010/11/22/smith-wesson-mp15-tactical-rifles/#axzz227rF0lWg
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FatboyStew</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking of building an AR, but am considering a lower priced, complete gun. I am seriously considering the S&W M&P 15 Sport. It looks like a great deal for an entry level AR. I like that it has a 1/8 twist. It will primarily be used for home defense and plinking. I spent many years carrying an M-16 & M-4, and really like and miss the platform. So, does anyone have experience with the Smith? I want the good, bad, and ugly. Also, can anyone recommend another good option at around the same price point? Thanks. </div></div>
There are a lot of SHIT AR15s out there.
Here are the good ones:
BCM
Colt
Noveske
LMT
KAC
Daniel Defense
Don't like the price?
Save your money. If you spend $800 on at AR15 you will get junk.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FatboyStew</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking of building an AR, but am considering a lower priced, complete gun. I am seriously considering the S&W M&P 15 Sport. It looks like a great deal for an entry level AR. I like that it has a 1/8 twist. It will primarily be used for home defense and plinking. I spent many years carrying an M-16 & M-4, and really like and miss the platform. So, does anyone have experience with the Smith? I want the good, bad, and ugly. Also, can anyone recommend another good option at around the same price point? Thanks. </div></div>
There are a lot of SHIT AR15s out there.
Here are the good ones:
BCM
Colt
Noveske
LMT
KAC
Daniel Defense
Don't like the price?
Save your money. If you spend $800 on at AR15 you will get junk.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CohenJ87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Stag Arms too, they make amazing stuff for a great price. </div></div>
Plinker quality, not combat quality.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CohenJ87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Stag Arms too, they make amazing stuff for a great price. </div></div>
Plinker quality, not combat quality.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Another plug for the M&P Sport. I've been using mine for about a year and a half now. For the first year, all the operating components were left in their stock configurations. I shot about 2-2.5k of mostly Wolf, Tula, and MFS without a single failure. Fit and finish is the same as their higher end AR's. Operations like pulling the charging handle felt much smoother and better quality on the S&W than other low end AR's (Bushmaster, Delton, DPMS, etc.). I believe they come with Magpul MBUS rear sights now.
Another plug for the M&P Sport. I've been using mine for about a year and a half now. For the first year, all the operating components were left in their stock configurations. I shot about 2-2.5k of mostly Wolf, Tula, and MFS without a single failure. Fit and finish is the same as their higher end AR's. Operations like pulling the charging handle felt much smoother and better quality on the S&W than other low end AR's (Bushmaster, Delton, DPMS, etc.). I believe they come with Magpul MBUS rear sights now.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
I have heard a lot of good things about the M&P Sport, especially for the price.
My vote for that $800-900 price range is for a Rock River. I know they call it "plinker quality" but I have run over 1000 rounds through mine and haven't had a single malfuction.
I have heard a lot of good things about the M&P Sport, especially for the price.
My vote for that $800-900 price range is for a Rock River. I know they call it "plinker quality" but I have run over 1000 rounds through mine and haven't had a single malfuction.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
I appreciate all of the responses and information. I agree that the S&W isn't on par with some, but I think it's a good fit for what I am looking for. I want a low price AR that is fairly accurate, and will go bang when I pull the trigger. I have done a lot of reading on the S&W, and everything I have read shows it to be very reliable. I am still not completely sold on it, and will continue to research before purchasing it or any other. Does anyone have information on any reliability issues?
I appreciate all of the responses and information. I agree that the S&W isn't on par with some, but I think it's a good fit for what I am looking for. I want a low price AR that is fairly accurate, and will go bang when I pull the trigger. I have done a lot of reading on the S&W, and everything I have read shows it to be very reliable. I am still not completely sold on it, and will continue to research before purchasing it or any other. Does anyone have information on any reliability issues?
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
There's nothing wrong with the M&P sport, especially for those that are just looking for a plinker. Of course, it doesn't meet the specs of "better built" rifles, but you will probably never shoot it enough to realize the differences.
How much does a Sport go for anyway? I've never bought one, only shot them. If the price is anywhere near about $850 or so, I'd definitely be looking at a Spike's Tactical. If it is closer to $650 or so, it's probably a good buy.
There's nothing wrong with the M&P sport, especially for those that are just looking for a plinker. Of course, it doesn't meet the specs of "better built" rifles, but you will probably never shoot it enough to realize the differences.
How much does a Sport go for anyway? I've never bought one, only shot them. If the price is anywhere near about $850 or so, I'd definitely be looking at a Spike's Tactical. If it is closer to $650 or so, it's probably a good buy.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
They go for around $640 - $700 around here. I haven't heard much about Spikes, I'll have to look into them.
They go for around $640 - $700 around here. I haven't heard much about Spikes, I'll have to look into them.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
My RRA 16" "Elite Operator" build is nasty out to 500. Sure it's a "DI" but still runs like a scalded dog. I took the upper off and slapped it on a budies full auto lower, swapped the bolts and blasted thru 500rds in no time. I stopped when there was no more target to shoot at...
The half round/half quad upper is nice in the hands but is a massive heatsink(wasn't designed for sustained full auto). I am impresed for what it is, a good hardy weapon that i can strip/rebuild easily.
My RRA 16" "Elite Operator" build is nasty out to 500. Sure it's a "DI" but still runs like a scalded dog. I took the upper off and slapped it on a budies full auto lower, swapped the bolts and blasted thru 500rds in no time. I stopped when there was no more target to shoot at...
The half round/half quad upper is nice in the hands but is a massive heatsink(wasn't designed for sustained full auto). I am impresed for what it is, a good hardy weapon that i can strip/rebuild easily.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Have you considered buying used? There's a lot of great deals to be had if you keep your eyes peeled.
Have you considered buying used? There's a lot of great deals to be had if you keep your eyes peeled.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
I own a smith and wesson in 300 black out , 2 rock river rifles, 308 and 458 socom, a 20 inch build on a bushy lower , a colt 6940 and an 11.5 inch m16.
I bought my first ar 15 in 1975 so I am just making some observations gleaned over the years . there are a few low ball suppliers that pop in and out of buisness but most ar rifles run just fine especislly if you dont frequent internet forums to be told your rifle is crap buy brand x the bolt hold open and dust covers are for the most part just something else to go wrong I cannot ever remember using the forward assist or the dust cover . the smith will serve you well , my 300 blackout has run like a sewing machine . the rock river rifles are a far cry from plinker grade contrary to some internet babble I have personally beat up a lower sitting under a 458 socom for over 1000 rounds of 300 grain bullets being launched at 1950 fps.
my 20 inch 5.56 with a yankee hill barrel , bushy lower and hell if I know where its made upper is very reliable and accurate. the colt is just that a colt , never chokes and runs what ever I feed it.
my point is buy what fits you and your budget. then go shoot the crap out of it and have some fun.
I own a smith and wesson in 300 black out , 2 rock river rifles, 308 and 458 socom, a 20 inch build on a bushy lower , a colt 6940 and an 11.5 inch m16.
I bought my first ar 15 in 1975 so I am just making some observations gleaned over the years . there are a few low ball suppliers that pop in and out of buisness but most ar rifles run just fine especislly if you dont frequent internet forums to be told your rifle is crap buy brand x the bolt hold open and dust covers are for the most part just something else to go wrong I cannot ever remember using the forward assist or the dust cover . the smith will serve you well , my 300 blackout has run like a sewing machine . the rock river rifles are a far cry from plinker grade contrary to some internet babble I have personally beat up a lower sitting under a 458 socom for over 1000 rounds of 300 grain bullets being launched at 1950 fps.
my 20 inch 5.56 with a yankee hill barrel , bushy lower and hell if I know where its made upper is very reliable and accurate. the colt is just that a colt , never chokes and runs what ever I feed it.
my point is buy what fits you and your budget. then go shoot the crap out of it and have some fun.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
After researching the Spikes Tactical, I may go that route. It looks like a lot more rifle for only $100 - $200 more.
After researching the Spikes Tactical, I may go that route. It looks like a lot more rifle for only $100 - $200 more.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
The easier question to answer is what NOT to buy. I'd keep away from Olympic, Vulcan, Blackthorne, and Hesse.
Most of the others make pretty serviceable rifles. You'll be paying a premium for the customer service and warranty coverage from the big guys. You probably won't need it, but it's there if you do.
See what your local shop or gun show has to offer. Even Wal-mart is selling ARs now.
I have stuff from Stag, Bushmaster, Spike's, Essential Arms, and DPMS in my safe. I'd have no qualms about owning a RRA, S&W, or Colt either.
FWIW, the easiest solution for "best" is a Colt 6920 or variant thereof. They can reportedly be had for under $1,000, which I consider a bargain.
The easier question to answer is what NOT to buy. I'd keep away from Olympic, Vulcan, Blackthorne, and Hesse.
Most of the others make pretty serviceable rifles. You'll be paying a premium for the customer service and warranty coverage from the big guys. You probably won't need it, but it's there if you do.
See what your local shop or gun show has to offer. Even Wal-mart is selling ARs now.
I have stuff from Stag, Bushmaster, Spike's, Essential Arms, and DPMS in my safe. I'd have no qualms about owning a RRA, S&W, or Colt either.
FWIW, the easiest solution for "best" is a Colt 6920 or variant thereof. They can reportedly be had for under $1,000, which I consider a bargain.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Here is another plug for the M&P Sport. It is ALOT of rifle for the funds. I have owned many many many AR's, and I doubt you could build a better one for cheaper...
DK
Here is another plug for the M&P Sport. It is ALOT of rifle for the funds. I have owned many many many AR's, and I doubt you could build a better one for cheaper...
DK
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
I've never shot one but I'm thinking about buying one for my Dad for his birthday.
Here's a review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YdpE6Lpw9E
I've never shot one but I'm thinking about buying one for my Dad for his birthday.
Here's a review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YdpE6Lpw9E
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality. I own two Armalite AR15 and love them! I would highly recommend them to anyone!
Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality. I own two Armalite AR15 and love them! I would highly recommend them to anyone!
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Why not a Colt 6920? Top quality rifle for ~$999. Plenty of room for future expansion, if so desired.
For my 2 cents-
Don't get to focused on how you must have it now, or how it won't matter what quality of rifle you get as it's "only a range toy", or so on. This is why all the crappy comapnies are still around- because people coerce themselves into settling for less (or as some are fond of saying "just as good as X brand"). Never settle for second if a better product is well within reach. Or to quote another person, "even if you're not in the military you should still be demanding the best."
You mentioned HD- To quote an oft repeated mantra, how much is your life worth?
If defending yourself is ANY part of the equation, second best is never good enough.
Now that's not to say you MUST spend 5-grand to get every "best" thing with the rifle (even an all-out DD,BCM,Etc. is not much more than $10-1500).
And the stuff from Spikes or S&W or PSA are NOT bad choices, BUT why not save for a just a tad longer and get (one of) [see 500grains' list. Same goes for internals, like bolt carrier groups and LPKs] the best that's available while they're still legally available?
I could see if you can walk into your LGS and purchase one of the Spikes or S&Ws tommorrow it might be worth it what with folks going batshit insane buying everything in sight, but if you're going to be ordering and waiting, might as well make the wait worthwile and go for a better item.
Also- you may want to reconsider building- if you shop around on forums and such, and aren't to worried about buying slightly used items, with a little luck you can assemble a rifle above and beyond what you currently want. It's not like you even have to buy every part individually- plenty of factory assembled uppers floating around out there.
You may find this link helpful- http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
Why not a Colt 6920? Top quality rifle for ~$999. Plenty of room for future expansion, if so desired.
For my 2 cents-
Don't get to focused on how you must have it now, or how it won't matter what quality of rifle you get as it's "only a range toy", or so on. This is why all the crappy comapnies are still around- because people coerce themselves into settling for less (or as some are fond of saying "just as good as X brand"). Never settle for second if a better product is well within reach. Or to quote another person, "even if you're not in the military you should still be demanding the best."
You mentioned HD- To quote an oft repeated mantra, how much is your life worth?
If defending yourself is ANY part of the equation, second best is never good enough.
Now that's not to say you MUST spend 5-grand to get every "best" thing with the rifle (even an all-out DD,BCM,Etc. is not much more than $10-1500).
And the stuff from Spikes or S&W or PSA are NOT bad choices, BUT why not save for a just a tad longer and get (one of) [see 500grains' list. Same goes for internals, like bolt carrier groups and LPKs] the best that's available while they're still legally available?
I could see if you can walk into your LGS and purchase one of the Spikes or S&Ws tommorrow it might be worth it what with folks going batshit insane buying everything in sight, but if you're going to be ordering and waiting, might as well make the wait worthwile and go for a better item.
Also- you may want to reconsider building- if you shop around on forums and such, and aren't to worried about buying slightly used items, with a little luck you can assemble a rifle above and beyond what you currently want. It's not like you even have to buy every part individually- plenty of factory assembled uppers floating around out there.
You may find this link helpful- http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality.</div></div>
Definitely far and away above plinker quality. I would put Armalite super high on the list of all the AR's that I have ever owned. They are my #1 choice for the AR15 platforms.
DK
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality.</div></div>
Definitely far and away above plinker quality. I would put Armalite super high on the list of all the AR's that I have ever owned. They are my #1 choice for the AR15 platforms.
DK
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Do any of you guys have a Smith Sport or Rock River that has 10,000 or even 5000 rounds through them?
Do any of you guys have a Smith Sport or Rock River that has 10,000 or even 5000 rounds through them?
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
If it were me and it was at one time or another I would get the M&P Sport. It is the best quality at it's price range. The 5R melonite treated barrel and the magnetic partical inspected bolt on my Sport are great quality at its price point. The barrel is 1/8 twist and is friendly to various weights of ammo.
The next one I would go for is a Colt, it is $400 to $500 more, depending on your area, but like the M&P is worth the price.
If it were me and it was at one time or another I would get the M&P Sport. It is the best quality at it's price range. The 5R melonite treated barrel and the magnetic partical inspected bolt on my Sport are great quality at its price point. The barrel is 1/8 twist and is friendly to various weights of ammo.
The next one I would go for is a Colt, it is $400 to $500 more, depending on your area, but like the M&P is worth the price.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Fatboy, the good, the bad and the ugly of it, as I see it, is this.
First, I'm not going to concentrate of the quality of the parts used, because in the end, all ARs have to have parts replaced. It seems to me that it's a pay now or pay later sort of thing.
What I don't like about the Sport is...
1. There's no forward assist, although admittedly, this feature may or may not be considered to be essential, depending on who you ask.
2. The Sport has no dust cover. Whether or not this is an essential feature, is debatable. I know that I like having a dust cover. I know that my AR sees lots of mud and sand and I just prefer not to have that stuff accumulating in my action.
3. I've been told that I'm pretty much an idiot for pointing this out, but I am one of those peope that have had occassion to HAVE to change my trigger guard. Either because I just dinged it and it was ugly or because I downright screwed it up somehow. On the Sport, the trigger guard is machined as a part of the receiver and cannot be replaced. If you screw up the trigger guard, you pretty much have to replace the lower receiver to fix it.
If you are just going to be using the Sport for trips to the range or keeping it at home as a defense weapon, it might do the trick for you.
Fatboy, the good, the bad and the ugly of it, as I see it, is this.
First, I'm not going to concentrate of the quality of the parts used, because in the end, all ARs have to have parts replaced. It seems to me that it's a pay now or pay later sort of thing.
What I don't like about the Sport is...
1. There's no forward assist, although admittedly, this feature may or may not be considered to be essential, depending on who you ask.
2. The Sport has no dust cover. Whether or not this is an essential feature, is debatable. I know that I like having a dust cover. I know that my AR sees lots of mud and sand and I just prefer not to have that stuff accumulating in my action.
3. I've been told that I'm pretty much an idiot for pointing this out, but I am one of those peope that have had occassion to HAVE to change my trigger guard. Either because I just dinged it and it was ugly or because I downright screwed it up somehow. On the Sport, the trigger guard is machined as a part of the receiver and cannot be replaced. If you screw up the trigger guard, you pretty much have to replace the lower receiver to fix it.
If you are just going to be using the Sport for trips to the range or keeping it at home as a defense weapon, it might do the trick for you.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Well, I have decided on the M&P 15 Sport. I found a shop in Kentucky that has them for $556 for LE,AD military, and retired military. For that price, I have to give it a try.
Well, I have decided on the M&P 15 Sport. I found a shop in Kentucky that has them for $556 for LE,AD military, and retired military. For that price, I have to give it a try.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Save your money. If you spend $800 on at AR15 you will get junk. </div></div>
Going to call bs on that. I have an M&P 15 that I paid about 700 for and got 100 back from smith. It's been through a few rifle classes with me and runs like a swiss watch. It's kept going when several Colts started jamming.
If you buy an AR15 built to mil spec standards and you keep it wet, it should run just fine. If you want to pay twice as much because it says JP on the side instead of S&W that's your business, but saying every ar under 800 is failure prone just isn't realistic.
Particularly when the intended use is home defense and plinking.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Save your money. If you spend $800 on at AR15 you will get junk. </div></div>
Going to call bs on that. I have an M&P 15 that I paid about 700 for and got 100 back from smith. It's been through a few rifle classes with me and runs like a swiss watch. It's kept going when several Colts started jamming.
If you buy an AR15 built to mil spec standards and you keep it wet, it should run just fine. If you want to pay twice as much because it says JP on the side instead of S&W that's your business, but saying every ar under 800 is failure prone just isn't realistic.
Particularly when the intended use is home defense and plinking.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
didn't read all the comments, but the sport is good to go!
for $630 it is a steal! (off of impact guns website, they say backorder, but come in stock all the time)
It has a Thompson center 5R barrel 1/8 twist rate, which is a phenomenal twist. You can run just about everything through it. So it doesn't have a dust cover or forward assist, but in my experience the dust cover is only needed if your in the desert and exposed to extreme harsh conditions, or your going into the drink and wanna prevent swamp slime from getting in there.
if its a biggie for you to have that stuff, I swapped my upper for a blemmed LAR upper I got from them at a gunshow for $59.00 cash. so now your into an AR for $689.00. You cant buy any AR of the same quality for nearly that.
you can't get a better rifle for the price, and anything that will touch it in accuracy, and quality is going to run you 1000+ RRA is a decent rifle for the price, but there so dang heavy. The barrel is also a 1/9 chrome lined barrel on their operator series. The sport barrel is far superior.
Go for the sport, you wont be disappointed.
Also, note that S&W's rebate does NOT include the sport. So if you buy the sport, and want to use the military rebate, it does NOT include the sport. I've tried..
didn't read all the comments, but the sport is good to go!
for $630 it is a steal! (off of impact guns website, they say backorder, but come in stock all the time)
It has a Thompson center 5R barrel 1/8 twist rate, which is a phenomenal twist. You can run just about everything through it. So it doesn't have a dust cover or forward assist, but in my experience the dust cover is only needed if your in the desert and exposed to extreme harsh conditions, or your going into the drink and wanna prevent swamp slime from getting in there.
if its a biggie for you to have that stuff, I swapped my upper for a blemmed LAR upper I got from them at a gunshow for $59.00 cash. so now your into an AR for $689.00. You cant buy any AR of the same quality for nearly that.
you can't get a better rifle for the price, and anything that will touch it in accuracy, and quality is going to run you 1000+ RRA is a decent rifle for the price, but there so dang heavy. The barrel is also a 1/9 chrome lined barrel on their operator series. The sport barrel is far superior.
Go for the sport, you wont be disappointed.
Also, note that S&W's rebate does NOT include the sport. So if you buy the sport, and want to use the military rebate, it does NOT include the sport. I've tried..
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Check Cabelas if you got one near you. They have a Heck of a Sale This Saturday 8/25th on some DPMS and Sig Sauer AR15s! The DPMS Survival Kit on the front page of their Ad looks like a Amazing Deal! Come with 4 Mags, Badass Case, and a Complete Survival Kit! S&W are great too. Good Luck Bro!
Check Cabelas if you got one near you. They have a Heck of a Sale This Saturday 8/25th on some DPMS and Sig Sauer AR15s! The DPMS Survival Kit on the front page of their Ad looks like a Amazing Deal! Come with 4 Mags, Badass Case, and a Complete Survival Kit! S&W are great too. Good Luck Bro!
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
I think a lot of folks blame their AR rifles for issues that eventually trace on down to magazines and ammo.
Maybe rifles don't need to be broken in, but magazines sure seem to need some of that.
If you want ammo that functions, take a look at the components Uncle Suger puts into his folks' ammo; he's done some of this stuff a lot.
USGI ammo recipes, built to good standards, can get a lot of jobs done. You want your AR to shoot something else, go ahead; but if it hiccups, don't blame me.
I looked into Stag Arms before I bought, and I also got the opinions of several shooters who own them. It's easy to peg pebbles at someone. Facts tend to be more helpful. Actually, we all probably do need to read this article, there are some genuine surprises in there for some of us.
Like Lothar-Walther, another supplier for whom I have immense respect; many of us have AR firearms that depend on Stag's parent company for crucial parts, just as many OEM barrels come from L-W.
Greg
I think a lot of folks blame their AR rifles for issues that eventually trace on down to magazines and ammo.
Maybe rifles don't need to be broken in, but magazines sure seem to need some of that.
If you want ammo that functions, take a look at the components Uncle Suger puts into his folks' ammo; he's done some of this stuff a lot.
USGI ammo recipes, built to good standards, can get a lot of jobs done. You want your AR to shoot something else, go ahead; but if it hiccups, don't blame me.
I looked into Stag Arms before I bought, and I also got the opinions of several shooters who own them. It's easy to peg pebbles at someone. Facts tend to be more helpful. Actually, we all probably do need to read this article, there are some genuine surprises in there for some of us.
Like Lothar-Walther, another supplier for whom I have immense respect; many of us have AR firearms that depend on Stag's parent company for crucial parts, just as many OEM barrels come from L-W.
Greg
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Good and cheap... Stag. Forget the cheaper stuff and forget the franken builds.
If you want the best get a LMT.
Good and cheap... Stag. Forget the cheaper stuff and forget the franken builds.
If you want the best get a LMT.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
LMT M4 would be my choice. Don't by the rifle whole though, it costs about $1500 that way. Buy the upper seperate, then get their Defender 2000 lower (in whatever configuration you want, but with the SOPMOD stock it is a pretty good deal). You'll need a mil spec bolt and carrier since that isn't included. I think you'd be in around $1100 or so, but you'd get a rifle that is, in my opinion, better than the Colt I was issued.
I got mine with a 14.5" and set it up just like I had in the army, but I had to blind pin the hider to be legal and that cost a bit more. They make a 16" for the same price. The upper was $475 I think, the lower $450 and the bolt/carrier maybe $125.
That is about the best I was able to do without assmbling it myself from parts.
LMT M4 would be my choice. Don't by the rifle whole though, it costs about $1500 that way. Buy the upper seperate, then get their Defender 2000 lower (in whatever configuration you want, but with the SOPMOD stock it is a pretty good deal). You'll need a mil spec bolt and carrier since that isn't included. I think you'd be in around $1100 or so, but you'd get a rifle that is, in my opinion, better than the Colt I was issued.
I got mine with a 14.5" and set it up just like I had in the army, but I had to blind pin the hider to be legal and that cost a bit more. They make a 16" for the same price. The upper was $475 I think, the lower $450 and the bolt/carrier maybe $125.
That is about the best I was able to do without assmbling it myself from parts.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
I have 2 RRA AR's.
That said I am going to sell 1 to fund an LWRC IC when it hits or an LMT. Maybe sell both and buy both.
I have 2 RRA AR's.
That said I am going to sell 1 to fund an LWRC IC when it hits or an LMT. Maybe sell both and buy both.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
Stag is my choice for cheap and good AR, I have found that they are very accurate and reliable.
Stag is my choice for cheap and good AR, I have found that they are very accurate and reliable.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: z71rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality.</div></div>
Definitely far and away above plinker quality. I would put Armalite super high on the list of all the AR's that I have ever owned. They are my #1 choice for the AR15 platforms.
DK </div></div>
I have owned 3 Armalite rifles 2 AR10's and 1 AR180. All plinker quality. I have had friends iwth their AR15's. Not pure garbage but not something I would trust. They ahve had issues in the past with labeling their barrels 5.56 when they had a .223 chamber. The AR10's I owned were very finicky. You can do a lot better.
Good
Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM, Larue, Noveske etc.
OK
RRA, Stag, Bushmaster (reluctantly put this one in)
Don't buy.
DPMS, OLY.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: z71rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality.</div></div>
Definitely far and away above plinker quality. I would put Armalite super high on the list of all the AR's that I have ever owned. They are my #1 choice for the AR15 platforms.
DK </div></div>
I have owned 3 Armalite rifles 2 AR10's and 1 AR180. All plinker quality. I have had friends iwth their AR15's. Not pure garbage but not something I would trust. They ahve had issues in the past with labeling their barrels 5.56 when they had a .223 chamber. The AR10's I owned were very finicky. You can do a lot better.
Good
Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM, Larue, Noveske etc.
OK
RRA, Stag, Bushmaster (reluctantly put this one in)
Don't buy.
DPMS, OLY.
Re: Cheap, but good entry level AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskapopo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: z71rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality.</div></div>
Definitely far and away above plinker quality. I would put Armalite super high on the list of all the AR's that I have ever owned. They are my #1 choice for the AR15 platforms.
DK </div></div>
I have owned 3 Armalite rifles 2 AR10's and 1 AR180. All plinker quality. I have had friends iwth their AR15's. Not pure garbage but not something I would trust. They ahve had issues in the past with labeling their barrels 5.56 when they had a .223 chamber. The AR10's I owned were very finicky. You can do a lot better.
Good
Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM, Larue, Noveske etc.
OK
RRA, Stag, Bushmaster (reluctantly put this one in)
Don't buy.
DPMS, OLY.</div></div>
you do realize that DPMS, Bushmaster, and Remington are all the same since Freedom Group bought them all right?...
So how can you say Bushmaster is ok, but don't buy DPMS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskapopo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: z71rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phillipjr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at Armalite. This may also be "plinker" quality and not "combat" quality.</div></div>
Definitely far and away above plinker quality. I would put Armalite super high on the list of all the AR's that I have ever owned. They are my #1 choice for the AR15 platforms.
DK </div></div>
I have owned 3 Armalite rifles 2 AR10's and 1 AR180. All plinker quality. I have had friends iwth their AR15's. Not pure garbage but not something I would trust. They ahve had issues in the past with labeling their barrels 5.56 when they had a .223 chamber. The AR10's I owned were very finicky. You can do a lot better.
Good
Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM, Larue, Noveske etc.
OK
RRA, Stag, Bushmaster (reluctantly put this one in)
Don't buy.
DPMS, OLY.</div></div>
you do realize that DPMS, Bushmaster, and Remington are all the same since Freedom Group bought them all right?...
So how can you say Bushmaster is ok, but don't buy DPMS.
