Night Vision Chicken or the egg?

[bullseye13]

I'm sure it gets discussed weekly so I apologize.
For a guy starting out with a clean slate what would you get first; thermal scanner or pvs14? Third piece will be thermal scope.

I am like most here that have a varmint problem. Coyotes, fox, and I've trapped my 19th raccoon in the last month around the house with 2 of my chickens lost.

Guess I'm just wondering what the most useful first piece of the puzzle is with the goal to being a helmet mounted NV/thermal and thermal scope.

Thanks

 

[wigwamitus]

I think I'd go with option three ... get the thermal scope first ... I know some folks don't like holding up to scan ... but I've done it for years with no bother ... my trick is to use a short gun ... a carbine with a short barrel ... to get the center of mass far to the rear ... and then use my elbows on my chest (like some of the olympic shooters do) to convert the position into a "bone" position ... well it works for me I can do 360s while I'm walkin about ... and hold up most of the night.
And I don't have a lot of "no shoot" situations ... other than deer ... and I PID my targets before I shoot, so no safety issue holding up for me.

Then, it depends on how much unfamiliar ground you cover and how much vegetation there is ... as to whether I'd go for thermal or NV spotter ... but on general principles, I'd go for thermal ... but I definitely use both up there ... the so called "dual band helmet setup"

Here's my standard walkin and stalkin setup from 2-3 years ago ...

Same gun, with helmet with patrol on left eye and 14+coti on right eye. Don't need COTI unless shooting with laser a lot.

==
Main plus of thermal weapon sight first, is it gets you shooting most effectively first ... out to 300yds with the setup I'm showing.

 

[Frog05]

Thermal scope is where I would start for a critter problem.

 

[sea2summit]

I disagree slightly with the above because you can’t scan something without pointing a gun at it and if you’re just trying to figure out where you’re buddy is you’re that ain’t cool. Also who randomly does a 360 with their rifle while hunting? That’s an accident waiting to happen.

Now I will agree for hunting focus a thermal scope or clip on is the first recommendation. By the time you get a PVS-14 and a laser you’re at about the same price but less accurate at range compared to a thermal. For scanning you don’t need a whole lot so grab a handheld scout or LTO, in the used market I’ve seen them as low as $250.

 

[wigwamitus]

Disagreements are totally allowed !!!

... I disagree slightly with the above because you can’t scan something without pointing a gun at it and if you’re just trying to figure out where you’re buddy is you’re that ain’t cool. Also who randomly does a 360 with their rifle while hunting? That’s an accident waiting to happen ...

I'm alone 99% of the time ... and so no buddy issue .. .and with buddy ... then we scan our sectors (usually assign 210 sectors with over lap and stay within elbow reach so we always know where each other are) ... but still scan 360 continuously ... the reason is "critter can come from any direction at any time" ... we are out in cattle country ... with good sized fields most of the time ... so no safety issue ... and so scanning 360 continuously while doing critter control is not random, but purposeful !!

 

[Hobo Hilton]

As you are researching your choices, take note of which items are "on the shelf" and can be shipped the next day via 2 day delivery. The supply chain is drying up and these items are in demand. Move expeditiously.

Hobo

 

[bullseye13]

Thanks guys. I wouldn't have gone that route on my own. I have very hilly heavily wooded property with some swampy creek bottom and some crop land. My property is surrounded by crop land. Coyote sets could be on my property line scanning neighbors fields, but getting there I suppose I could use a low lumen red light.

 

[sea2summit]

Thanks guys. I wouldn't have gone that route on my own. I have very hilly heavily wooded property with some swampy creek bottom and some crop land. My property is surrounded by crop land. Coyote sets could be on my property line scanning neighbors fields, but getting there I suppose I could use a low lumen red light.

Most people would be amazed how well they can move at night with no light source if they train a little bit...

If you have an actual yote problem I would totally bait them and have one set. Set a game camera on it to see when their showing up, pick a night, and bam, done. Repeat as necessary.

 

[wigwamitus]

... very hilly heavily wooded property with some swampy creek bottom ... I suppose I could use a low lumen red light ... scanning neighbors fields ...

Hum, thanks for the additional insight!

If you are moving thru heavy woods ... then I would reverse the priories ... and go with dual band on helmet with laser first ... The 14 by itself enables the laser, but does not allow you to see the critters very well, especially in woods. So you'll really need both thermal and 14 up there to be effective. Also, navigating in woods with just a 14 can be tricky. If the moon is over head ... it can light up the inside of the woods enough ... but the moon is not always up there. Then you need thermal.

Well, one thing you could do is get the 14+laser first and start practicing with it ... shooting say a 9 inch circle out to 150yds ... but mostly practice at 100yds. Then you can get decent at hitting your target with the laser.

There are rumors of two non-Chinese helmet mountable thermals coming down the pike, possibly in a few months ... so while your practicing with the laser, the factories will be busy working on those

Then add the thermal up there and you have a viable, inside 150yd solution ...

Yeah scanning other people's property, well that depends on what might be there. Most of my pastures neighbors pastures are 100% unoccupied in the cool half of the year and I have permission to hunt/shoot there in the cool half, when no cattle on the land. But that might not be the case for you.

I've used a 3 lumen gerber recon light ... RGBW ... and still have a lot of those ... the green is great in the woods ... but more detectable ... the red is tougher to navigate by ... I'd still take a compass (or a garmin).

... Most people would be amazed how well they can move at night with no light source if they train a little bit...

Definitely agree with that !! (aka light source = moon or even stars ... we don't have much city light, town light around here). Hence why, on familiar ground ... when I used to use thermal weapons sights ... I would just go out with them ... though I will say navigating in tough woods, crossing lots of deadfall ... moving up and down creek banks, etc. NODs are very useful !!!

 

[SN13]

I'm sure it gets discussed weekly so I apologize.
For a guy starting out with a clean slate what would you get first; thermal scanner or pvs14? Third piece will be thermal scope.

I am like most here that have a varmint problem. Coyotes, fox, and I've trapped my 19th raccoon in the last month around the house with 2 of my chickens lost.

Guess I'm just wondering what the most useful first piece of the puzzle is with the goal to being a helmet mounted NV/thermal and thermal scope.

Thanks

Get the Thermal.
Get a short Rifle.
Get a good sling.
Get a Titanium .308 Suppressor
Pick a heavy stock (Balances the weight rearward) Like the Magpul UBR
Keep the Stock SHORT (Nose to Charging Handle)
Enjoy 8 hours of night stalking without fatigue.

300BLK 10.5" I use with my Pulsar XD50A

 

[bullseye13]

Hum, thanks for the additional insight!

If you are moving thru heavy woods ... then I would reverse the priories ... and go with dual band on helmet with laser first ... The 14 by itself enables the laser, but does not allow you to see the critters very well, especially in woods. So you'll really need both thermal and 14 up there to be effective. Also, navigating in woods with just a 14 can be tricky. If the moon is over head ... it can light up the inside of the woods enough ... but the moon is not always up there. Then you need thermal.

Well, one thing you could do is get the 14+laser first and start practicing with it ... shooting say a 9 inch circle out to 150yds ... but mostly practice at 100yds. Then you can get decent at hitting your target with the laser.

There are rumors of two non-Chinese helmet mountable thermals coming down the pike, possibly in a few months ... so while your practicing with the laser, the factories will be busy working on those

Then add the thermal up there and you have a viable, inside 150yd solution ...

Yeah scanning other people's property, well that depends on what might be there. Most of my pastures neighbors pastures are 100% unoccupied in the cool half of the year and I have permission to hunt/shoot there in the cool half, when no cattle on the land. But that might not be the case for you.

I've used a 3 lumen gerber recon light ... RGBW ... and still have a lot of those ... the green is great in the woods ... but more detectable ... the red is tougher to navigate by ... I'd still take a compass (or a garmin).

Fields are 100% unoccupied. They are mostly rented for cash crop.

 

[bullseye13]

Anyone have a nice thin filmed WP pinnacle pvs-14 they want to get rid of?

 

[300LW]

Wig, can you offer any additional details on this comment?

There are rumors of two non-Chinese helmet mountable thermals coming down the pike, possibly in a few months ...

 

[Mporche]

I scan with a pulsar rqx30 and shoot with a sightmark wraith.Both are in qd mounts and sighted in on the same rifle so switching in the field is easy.

 

[jeffl838]

How far are you shooting? Sounds like you won't be running around a lot when you're on coop defense? What's your budget? We can give you better recommendations with a few more details.

I'd get a thermal scanner because if you can't shoot them if don't know they're there, but at the same time you can't shoot them if you have nothing to aim with.

An alternative option is getting a cheap handheld scanner and a cheaper PVS4. Or maybe a cheap handheld scanner and a head mounted SiOnyx. If you're hanging out by a coop, you can hang around some IR lights and cheap digital NV will be fine.

 

[wigwamitus]

... Wig, can you offer any additional details on this comment? ...

No !!!

(sorry I should respect confidentiality of the information and the sources ... but timeframe expected (by me) to be between now and end of SHOT ... at least for announcements)

 

[bullseye13]

How far are you shooting? Sounds like you won't be running around a lot when you're on coop defense? What's your budget? We can give you better recommendations with a few more details.

I'd get a thermal scanner because if you can't shoot them if don't know they're there, but at the same time you can't shoot them if you have nothing to aim with.

An alternative option is getting a cheap handheld scanner and a cheaper PVS4. Or maybe a cheap handheld scanner and a head mounted SiOnyx. If you're hanging out by a coop, you can hang around some IR lights and cheap digital NV will be fine.

Well, I need to take care of buisness around the house first, but I'd like to have the ability to help friends and neighbors with the coyotes as well.
Budget at the moment would be $4-$5k. Could wait until years end and be around $7k?

 

[NateSavannah]

No !!!

(sorry I should respect confidentiality of the information and the sources ... but timeframe expected (by me) to be between now and end of SHOT ... at least for announcements)

Will they be worth waiting for? thats all I want to know. I hate waiting for shit.

 

[wigwamitus]

... Will they be worth waiting for? thats all I want to know ..

Definitely !!

(( And I don't think I've ever said that before ))

((I am not big on "waiting" ... NO WAITING ... is my mantra ... but every mantra has an exception ))

 

[deersniper]

I vote thermal scope first. Get it on a QD Mount then you can use it to scan also.

Then get a thermal scanner.

 

[PlinkIt]

Whatever you do make sure you can use a thermal as a scanner first. Either dedicated or the scope that you plan to pop on and off the rifle.

No matter what scanning with thermal is unreal in detection of things that deserve a bullet

 

[WhereNow&How]

Most people would be amazed how well they can move at night with no light source if they train a little bit...

Yeah ah .... humm, what about them rattlers and mocassins, I hate rattlers and mocassins.

Nighttime is they favorite feeding time.

That's a biggie & why I love me some NV and Snakeboots.

 

[SN13]

Yeah ah .... humm, what about them rattlers and mocassins, I hate rattlers and mocassins.

Nighttime is they favorite feeding time.

That's a biggie & why I love me some NV and Snakeboots.

You CAN see snakes in thermal... although they are only a shade of grey different than the background.

BUT I've been able to see Alligators, Frogs, and Snakes through my Thermal in "White Hot" but you see a light grey on a slightly darker gray background.

 

[jeffl838]

Gators are really easy to see under i2 if you have a powerful illuminator.

 

[deersniper]

Gators are really easy to see under i2 if you have a powerful illuminator.

What about other reptilians

 

[SkyScrapin]

What about other reptilians

You mean Killary? Ya, she's easy to see too.

 

[bullseye13]

You mean Killary? Ya, she's easy to see too.

Be careful. You dont want to be suicided.

 

[WhereNow&How]

What about other reptilians

I have watched some pretty decent sized bass right up close to the bank in about a 1 1/2 feet of water and a little shallower feeding at night. I used an Evlova T38 on my helmet with a 950 Pass Filter that kills all visible red glow. Long story short I was able to get within about 6 feet from them and their eyes glow and reflect from my Illuminator. They did not have a clue I was there and the water was real clear water. That was a really cool experience.

 

[WhereNow&How]

You CAN see snakes in thermal... although they are only a shade of grey different than the background.

BUT I've been able to see Alligators, Frogs, and Snakes through my Thermal in "White Hot" but you see a light grey on a slightly darker gray background.

Yes, I am aware of that, but the snakes just don't "pop" as well when walking down woods roads and trails as they seem to do with NV at the closer ranges of say out to 20 feet or so.