Night Vision China Skeet vs China Breach

[Namekagon]

Has anyone looked through both MH-25 vs ML-19 and compared them? I have found about 1 video on youtube, from Iray, showing side-by-side video, and I'm surprised the difference between the 2 wasn't greater. To the point that I wasn't sure it was truly representative of the differences.

I want helmet mounted thermal to go alongside my PVS-14. Not trying for fusion, just sick of doing the tripod dance scanning for yotes with my thermal scope. I need something good enough to not piss me off and tell me something is there. Then I would ID with PVS-14 and magnifier if necessary, and kill with 640 thermal rifle scope.

From video I've seen, I don't think a FLIR Breach would cut it. The little bit of ML-19 footage online suggests that it would meet my needs, but I'm surprised there aren't more videos online for this unit for its price point. I know the MH-25 would be awesome, but $4,000 would be a big budget stretch, meaning waiting at least a year. Does the ML-19 punch above its weight class, or would I regret not waiting for the MH-25? And yes a USA-made NOX would be fabulous, but the divorce lawyer would push it out of my budget. Thanks everyone.

 

[French1966]

I’m very interested in this as well. I posted a similar thread over on Arfcom but no one with hands on experience posted. If something changes, I’ll post it here.
I’m a complete thermal newb and am torn between the breach and ml19. I did get to try a MH25 in person and it was ridiculous. If the ML19 performance is in between the breach and mh25, I’m buying it.

Something worth noting is that the breach isn’t really configured correctly out of the box. You have to adjust the settings to make it usable apparently. I mention this because I likely watched some of the same comparison videos as OP and the breach looked like shit. People posted in the comments that it wasn’t configured properly.

Would be great if someone else chimes in here

 

[Lowdown3]

To add on the Breach- plan on only using a battery pack. 90% of the complaints about the Breach stem from folks trying to use CR123s with them. If the battery is the slightest bit out of spec size wise, it can cause the unit to shut off when looking straight up, looking down, etc.

Meanwhile the guys that run battery packs with them never seem to have an issue.

Also, there is evidently some Flir refurbs of the Breach floating around. I didn't even know they did this till about year or so ago, someone new there evidently included a refurb in one of our shipments along with new ones (the only ones we buy). Flir got it swapped out for the guy but I've heard of folks having issues with glass and the refurbished units.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I run RCR 123's rechargeables and the 16650 rechargeables with the Mod Armory Battery Extender. So do a bunch of my buds with Breach's.

We have had zero issues running these batteries in the Breach.

The Breach is a solid piece of kit that is durable and can take some abuse.

Not to sure about the China Skeets/China Breach's.

Im sticking with the Flir Breach.

 

[Backspace]

Tagging in as i have wondered the same thing. Had a breach and it was pretty good for what it was. It would run through some cr123s though. Ended up working out pretty good running an anker power supply on the back of my helmet as a counterweight and power supply for it. Would really like for the 19 to be a good alternative splitting the difference in performance between the breach and mh25 but dont want to be the guinea pig if i can avoid it.

 

[stefan73]

From what I have read you really need to add the PVS-14 eye piece into the equation for best use of the MH25, so add that into your final cost.

 

[TheHorta]

China units crush the Breach. It’s not even close. As Stefan said, PVS-14 eyepiece mod is required. I prefer the MH25 because it is “Unity” magnification and gives true 1:1 view, so you can walk, navigate a Ranger, etc with it. The 19mm version is great for WIDE detection, but I’ve never been left wanting with the MH25.

 

[WhereNow&How]

In the land of the po and blind, a man with a Breach is Kang.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I prefer the MH25 because it is “Unity” magnification and gives true 1:1 view, so you can walk, navigate a Ranger, etc with it.

You forgot and important disclaimer.

"Jack, Makers Mark and other various adult Sarsaparillas combined with a MH25 and Rangers could be hazardous to your health"

 

[Namekagon]

China units crush the Breach. It’s not even close. As Stefan said, PVS-14 eyepiece mod is required. I prefer the MH25 because it is “Unity” magnification and gives true 1:1 view, so you can walk, navigate a Ranger, etc with it. The 19mm version is great for WIDE detection, but I’ve never been left wanting with the MH25.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? (edit to add: referring to the "Unity" magnification comment) I see that the FOV on the 19 version is 19 degrees vs 17.5 on the MH-25. Is the 19 not a true 1x?

Also I noticed just noticed in a spec sheet I found that it lists minimum operation temperature of 14 degrees. I hadn't seen that anywhere before, and I assume that means that the LCOS display is some version of liquid crystal display. In Wisconsin, 14 degrees at night is a perfect night for a hunt. Does the display on these things struggle in the cold?

 

[stefan73]

China units crush the Breach. It’s not even close. As Stefan said, PVS-14 eyepiece mod is required. I prefer the MH25 because it is “Unity” magnification and gives true 1:1 view, so you can walk, navigate a Ranger, etc with it. The 19mm version is great for WIDE detection, but I’ve never been left wanting with the MH25.

View attachment 7803571

My question is durability? https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/nvision-nox-or-rona-skeet.7041585/ since we are on the topic I feel this might be pertinent.

 

[stefan73]

China units crush the Breach. It’s not even close. As Stefan said, PVS-14 eyepiece mod is required. I prefer the MH25 because it is “Unity” magnification and gives true 1:1 view, so you can walk, navigate a Ranger, etc with it. The 19mm version is great for WIDE detection, but I’ve never been left wanting with the MH25.

View attachment 7803571

The 19mm version is a 384X288 sensor, I wonder how its performance compares to the Breach?

 

[Namekagon]

The 19mm version is a 384X288 sensor, I wonder how its performance compares to the Breach?

Some insight as to the performance level of the ML-19 is pretty much the info I seek. Not many comparisons out there, but the few that exist are favorable, IMO.

Another way to look at it is, since FLIR has apparently become a zero-customer-service style of company for civilians, there is no downside to going to an ML-19 with potentially better performance for the same price. In fact, IRAY USA customer service could easily be better than FLIR from things I've read.

 

[Besley]

I have CML25 - clip on. After some modifications it can be used as a helmet mounted (I use it like this). The core will probably be the same as for ML19 - I am able to immediately positively identify roe deer at 100m in the forest, the hare is only detected at 100m (recognizable by movement). In Europe, the problem is to get a PVS14 eye piece - if I had one more, I would rather pay extra for the MH25.
The result - the equivalent of ML19 is enough for detection - in the forest about 100-200m according to vegetation, in open terrain up to 500m. But it's just "enough", nothing great.

 

[stefan73]

I started looking at the listed operational temperature ranges for the MH25 and ML19. I start really seeing preds when the colder temps start to hit.

 

[WhereNow&How]

My Google Foo says that:

MH25 and ML19 have Operational Temps of 14 Degrees F to 122 Degrees F and has a LCOS viewing screen.

Flir Breach has Operational Temps of -4 Degrees F to 122 Degrees F and has a FLCOS viewing screen.

So take all that for what it is worth.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

The ML19 is a good little unit. The picture quality is much better than my 384 Hogster when left at 1x. It degrades quickly when zoomed though. I would say at native mag, the 19 is 75%+ of the image quality of the 25. Personally there is not a need to zoom a helmet mounted thermal though. It is very usable, very light, and very compact.

I have never been around a breach so no comparison against them.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

Also, i have had my 25 out in sub 10 with no problem.

 

[Namekagon]

So, just to be clear, you have or had both?

 

[Namekagon]

The ML19 is a good little unit. The picture quality is much better than my 384 Hogster when left at 1x. It degrades quickly when zoomed though. I would say at native mag, the 19 is 75%+ of the image quality of the 25. Personally there is not a need to zoom a helmet mounted thermal though. It is very usable, very light, and very compact.

I have never been around a breach so no comparison against them.

This is very helpful, thanks.

 

[Besley]

The ML19 is a good little unit. The picture quality is much better than my 384 Hogster when left at 1x. It degrades quickly when zoomed though. I would say at native mag, the 19 is 75%+ of the image quality of the 25. Personally there is not a need to zoom a helmet mounted thermal though. It is very usable, very light, and very compact.

I have never been around a breach so no comparison against them.

Did you upgrade ML19 using PVS14 eye piece? I wonder if it's as simple as the MH25, or if there's a dimensional problem.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

So, just to be clear, you have or had both?

Yes. My dad has a 19, I have a 25. The 19 doesnt have many hours on it yet.

I didnt put a PVS eyepiece on the 19, but it could use it. You can get it adjusted to where it is giving the full FOV, but it makes you want more eye relief. @TheHorta would probably know the does it fit answer. I imagine it would.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Yes. My dad has a 19, I have a 25. The 19 doesnt have many hours on it yet.

I didnt put a PVS eyepiece on the 19, but it could use it. You can get it adjusted to where it is giving the full FOV, but it makes you want more eye relief. @TheHorta would probably know the does it fit answer. I imagine it would.

Horta would not know. He is a Grey Poupon man.

He dont slum around with Some Ting Wongs products.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

China units crush the Breach. It’s not even close. As Stefan said, PVS-14 eyepiece mod is required. I prefer the MH25 because it is “Unity” magnification and gives true 1:1 view, so you can walk, navigate a Ranger, etc with it. The 19mm version is great for WIDE detection, but I’ve never been left wanting with the MH25.

View attachment 7803571

Horta would not know. He is a Grey Poupon man.

He dont slum around with Some Ting Wongs products.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I'm just picking at Horta. He is a fine connoisseur of thermal.

 

[French1966]

Did you upgrade ML19 using PVS14 eye piece? I wonder if it's as simple as the MH25, or if there's a dimensional problem.

The 19 accepts the eyepiece just like the 25, not speaking from experience but just seeing photos with them on…