- Nov 3, 2010
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And stranger that the US says it wouldn’t give tariff relief for parts for the Mac Pro. The ONLY model made in the US. Why would the need tariff relief if it was all made here?
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Chinese products
- Thread starter blue_ridge
- Start date
Apple's new Mac Pro is being manufactured in China | AppleInsider
After six years of manufacturing the cylindrical Mac Pro in Texas, Apple has shifted production of the new Mac Pro abroad to China, even as trade tensions escalate between the U.S. and China.
appleinsider.com
lame
Was looking at inexpensive rifle scopes for a future CZ 457 purchase, and the Vortex Diamondback kept popping into the lineup. Seemed like a decent little scope for something I might shoot at 300 yards at the max. Made in China. I kept going back to that. Kept searching. Back to the Diamondback. More searching. Ugh.
Then, I read something about Nikon halting scope production, but they made great stuff in the past. Decent glass. The Nikon BLACK FX1000 Riflescopes are made in in the Philippines, with Japanese glass and parts. I found one, brand new for less than the Vortex Diamondback costs, and they (the Nikon) had an original SRP of $700. Just had to keep searching, instead of buying the first thing I saw.
There's still a lot of China crap out there. I'm guilty of shopping at Harbor Freight. But it's a start.
Then, I read something about Nikon halting scope production, but they made great stuff in the past. Decent glass. The Nikon BLACK FX1000 Riflescopes are made in in the Philippines, with Japanese glass and parts. I found one, brand new for less than the Vortex Diamondback costs, and they (the Nikon) had an original SRP of $700. Just had to keep searching, instead of buying the first thing I saw.
There's still a lot of China crap out there. I'm guilty of shopping at Harbor Freight. But it's a start.
Everyone wants to blame the politicians. They're owned by Harvard MBAs working in the name of executive compensation. Follow the money. Who did you vote for in the last election? Goldman Saks, Exxon Mobil, Mastercard, Deutsche bank, Lloyds of London? Money talks and bullshit walks. I walk...
Don’t Kidd yourself both recent purchases....Some Danner boots same deal....These are my favorite work pants though....We need threads on HOW to avoid chinese good more than telling us to avoid chinese goods
It can be challenging to avoid them, even on simple stuff.
For example, some made in the USA clothes
Made in the USA Products | Duluth Trading Company
USA-made jeans, shirts, belts, work boots and shoes. Made in America with pride.www.duluthtrading.com
.
Attachments
We need threads on HOW to avoid chinese good more than telling us to avoid chinese goods
It can be challenging to avoid them, even on simple stuff.
For example, some made in the USA clothes
Made in the USA Products | Duluth Trading Company
USA-made jeans, shirts, belts, work boots and shoes. Made in America with pride.
.
That page of Carhatts proclaiming that EVERYTHING is made in the USA is uutter horse shit.
I quite buying their stuff because of it.
Alphabet soup and regulations pushed by politicians to keep their hands clean and pockets flush with cash brought us here. Dem and Rep alike.
Love my old Fenwick baitcasting rod with its made in USA tag,
My Cannondale flies the US flag.
Neither product is made in the USA now.
My Fenwick was lustily saved for circa 1984 and the bike was bought about 2007.
Pretty impressed that Kestrel has remained Made in USA. Im sure some parts must be foreign sourced but they still carry the Madein US tag.
They seem ripe for moving their entire product production over seas.
Pisses me off when I see the new tag "Designed in the US. Manufactured in China". Why not just put on their "We fuck American workers".
They seem ripe for moving their entire product production over seas.
Pisses me off when I see the new tag "Designed in the US. Manufactured in China". Why not just put on their "We fuck American workers".
As of late, I have reduced my Chink Junk, to a minimum. What irks the shi* out of me, is that you'll look for an item on one shelf, it's "made in china" and can't find a like item on another shelf and pick the "made in USA" item. We do not have choices. You either buy Chinese or do without. 99.9% of everything in this great country, is F'n foreign made. I never really realized how we, as a country, are so embolden to F'n China. I remember learning in school, we made F'n everything here, except chrome products (mainly auto body parts), because we could not mine the ores to produce it. Shi*, we even allow China to produce our "life saving" drugs! WTF?? A commie country?? Politicians greed, has just F'd US beyond repair.
We've been sold out and we let it happen. Mac
part of the reason is that we the consumer have not sent a message to retailers that we want MADE IN THE USA PRODUCTS. Once we start taking Extra steps to find USA products and paying a little more, manufacturers and retailers will also.
One thing I do also, I go on Amazon.com and I search for ”made I the USA”. If we all start to do this, Amazon will see the data where there’s a surge of interest in MADE IN THE USA products and they’ll start to offer more of it. When Amazon starts looking for more American Made products, manufacturers and distributors will line up around the block to provide it to them.
For those not familiar with electronics assembly, it's not particularly sensitive to labor cost if the product is designed correctly. It's not someone is picking up parts with tweezers and soldering them with an iron.
Check out just the first frame of this video, or skip to the 0:35 mark:
How many people do you see on that shop floor? How much money is saved by replacing those people and machines with manual labor in a foreign country? What percentage of the sell price of a $600 weather meter (or $1100 phone, or $2500 laptop) would this represent? What is the effect of having product stuck in a shipping container for six weeks? (Or worse, if, say, a pandemic breaks out.) What's the real cost of poor product quality?
But I've had this conversation with supposedly intelligent people, and they just don't get it. Some random Chinese company gave them a quote and cost breakdown that shows a 10% savings, and they run with it and think they're getting a deal. Kudos to the Nielsen-Kellerman guys for not buying into the bullshit.
A quick side note - a few semiconductor manufacturers need to get taken to the woodshed for their preferential pricing in certain Communist regions. Go hit up [name redacted] for domestic pricing on a given microcontroller, then do the same from an office in China. Same part, same performance, comes out of the same plant - but two completely different prices.
Good luck getting a free-trade dipshit like Larry Kudlow to identify and fix subtle problems like that. Fox, henhouse, etc.
Are we going to do an elemental origin analysis? Let me know what product will be left.
Where are the chemicals used in making primer compounds from? Wyoming?
LMAO
Apple is on the list. If one is suspect, they are all suspect. Designed in California. Assembled in China. And, even if the computer is assembled in the USA, the components are "internationally sourced" like your car...
Good points. I’ll add that besides labor you still have to consider the tax and regulatory burden put on these companies by the US Gov’t. China isn’t inspecting g their factories with OSHA, EPA, state labor boards and 10 other regulatory groups.
Also, I worked for a company 10 years ago that had US and German offices. We were developing a new electronic product and it came time to discuss where it should be manufactured. The Germans put together a much lower budget than we did on the USA side, so management gave production to the Germans. Everyone with even basic knowledge of production could look at the German plan and call Bullshit. Within 6 months of production the Germans were at about double their budget, but it didn’t matter, they had already set up everything and taking production away from them would cost even more at that point. I bet this is what the Chinese do also. Just bid rock bottom prices even if it is completely dishonest, then they have leverage to keep the contract because you know if will be expensive to start over somewhere else.
I was talking to our manufacturing VP about this several years ago. One of the key take aways was that "China" can make pretty much anything at pretty much any price point, so long as it can be automated. That is, you want cheap shit? China can make it. You want really high quality, precision shit? China can make it- but it's going to cost more than the cheap shit, and maybe even as much as having it made in the USA. And, the process needs to be automatable. They've got robots and computers and all of the whiz bang shit for automating a manufacturing floor. What they do not have is skilled labor- at least not cheap skilled labor. China cannot compete with the USA on (relatively) low volume manufacturing of goods that require skilled labor to produce. It is precisely that "someone picking up parts with a tweezer and soldering them together" where China falls down.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,699
- 20,240
Assembled by a company called Hon Hai Precision, a chinese owned company. Just a small amount of research shows that a majority of iphones and ipads are built in the shenzen,china factories. They own and operate factories all over the world, you are correct there. They do make SOME iphone and ipads in Taiwan, but not all and not a majority. Either way you cook it, the majority of the money for production is going through mainland china first, I’m sure some makes it back to california. The image was more for the first line that said “Not only are they made in china”
Oh, and .gov is starting to "do something" about China. I received a query from one of my customers about our companies dealings with certain foreign companies. It seems that these .govs can no longer do business with any company that does business with these specific Foreign (Chinese) companies...
Hi,
Yep, check the US Department of Treasury restrictions list for not only foreign companies but foreign individuals that USA based companies are not supposed to do business with.
Along with US Department of Commerce sanctions lists.
Along with US Department of State sanctions/embargo lists.
Sincerely,
Theis
Wait until Biden gets in...the Berry Act will become the Xi Clause
At this point, if someone imports Chinese 9mm or 5.56 at .13 a round, I will buy several thousand dollars worth.
Please Consider the bigger picture when you shop for products. I’m not wealthy and I have 4 school aged kids that I have to pay bills for, so I get it. However, if we continue to turn a blind eye to this consistent pattern where Chinese companies (meaning the communist government) blatantly steal technology, copy it, then offer it at a lower price, then THEY WILL OWN US.
Director Of National Intelligence: China Is Targeting Congress With Threats
On Thursday, writing in The Wall Street Journal, Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe issued a clarion call warning of China’s determination to dominate the United States, revealing that he had “briefed the House and Senate Intelligence committees that China is targeting members of...www.dailywire.com
They already own the influence peddlers particularly the 'tribe' out of ME , the 'tribe' runs US. Nearly of the stuff you buy that is made there has been outsourced there of course there is plenty of IP theft but wast majority of what you buy is not. I understand this is domestic propaganda in the spirit of the times.
But if you are honest you have to recognize that all of this was made possible by folks that got rich on outsourcing manufacturing to China. Even if you decouple if from China same folks will outsource it to Vietnam, Indonesia, Mexico wherever work is cheap and laws are lax. The best case is Apple an over priced product that could be made anywhere on the globe at a profit.
Watch the video before you comment,it shows the Chinese insight into things.
Hi,
THIS!!
It was just 2 days ago that Ukrainian Security Service raided the office and homes of the Government owned Ukrspets Export and Ukrobonprom Export in suspected TREASON charges with 100 Million USD missing.
Sincerely,
Theis
We have an independent owned furniture store that sells only made in USA products. Most of it is Amish, or from manufacturers like Best Home Furnishings and La-Z-Boy
While I realize textiles are getting hard to find that are USA made, as long as products aren't from China or some other communist shithole I don't mind.
Auto parts are some of the hardest to find that aren't made in China. More and more I don't have a choice where the parts are from.
While I realize textiles are getting hard to find that are USA made, as long as products aren't from China or some other communist shithole I don't mind.
Auto parts are some of the hardest to find that aren't made in China. More and more I don't have a choice where the parts are from.
Hi,
Here is a thought/suggestion that is definitely easier to enact change to than "stop getting China products"....
This entire Nationalization of manufacturing thing requires baby steps...
Suggested first step:
Start with the manufacturers that are ALREADY in USA and see just how many employees are on work visas...each one of those are theoretically a job that a USA citizen could be doing.
For example there is a very very well known Furniture chain in Houston Texas that has shitloads of commercials about Quality American Made products yet he sponsors hundreds and hundreds of work visas.
Trying to solve this issue from top down is not going to be very successful but starting at the bottom could very well be.
Stop buying meat products from packing houses that sponsor thousands of work visas.
List goes on and on.
Sincerely,
Theis
Here is a thought/suggestion that is definitely easier to enact change to than "stop getting China products"....
This entire Nationalization of manufacturing thing requires baby steps...
Suggested first step:
Start with the manufacturers that are ALREADY in USA and see just how many employees are on work visas...each one of those are theoretically a job that a USA citizen could be doing.
For example there is a very very well known Furniture chain in Houston Texas that has shitloads of commercials about Quality American Made products yet he sponsors hundreds and hundreds of work visas.
Trying to solve this issue from top down is not going to be very successful but starting at the bottom could very well be.
Stop buying meat products from packing houses that sponsor thousands of work visas.
List goes on and on.
Sincerely,
Theis
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LMAO...I would do a little more of your own research b4 engaging. Hon Hai Precision is aka Foxconn with HQ in Taiwan. Largest CM in the world. Wholly owned by Taiwanese. I have visited Foxconn in Taiwan a number of times. I guess that all of the iPhones/iPads I saw flowing through the line in Taiwan were actually made in the PRC and were there merely to provide us the illusion.
Point being that "Buy made in America" is nothing but empty useless rhetoric. Everything other than highly complex items not made for consumers or expensive specialty items that have a minuscule part of the economy is made in the PRC or somewhere overseas. Wait until smoking Joe and Cuntmilla finish the deal. It will create a nice pile of POORs in the US.
The bankers and globalists sold us out LONG ago....like it or not
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sorry, but just because a lot of groundwork has been done to grease the wheels for Chinese production does not mean that we Americans should lie down and give up. You can if you want, it not me. We make choices every day. Even buying the same products from your local family owned business instead of from Walmart and Amazon will help. At least those sales go to your neighbor rather than companies that buy everything from China. Also, just in Trump’s 4 short years he was making progress and shaking the foundation of this world trade leviathan where all roads lead to China. We need to continue to elect state and federal people who share this same passion.
we also need to continue to ask, “where is this made?” Every time we ask this question it forces retailers and manufacturers to answer and consider that their customers dont want Chinese made stuff.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,699
- 20,240
So this same FOXCONN that is formerly known as Hon Hai? The one with the corporate address in china? Having a HQ in a country doesn’t make it owned by that country. I also said a MAJORITY of iphones and ipads made in china. I have no doubt there are plenty of them rolling out of taiwan.
I sincerely believe that it's nearly impossible to purchase something in the US, labeled as made somewhere other than China, that does not have significant Chinese originated content. It's not completely a conspiracy, it's in no small part just a simple part of the global economy. Just as the recent buy American/boycott Chinese goods campaign has caught the American imagination, we still see those China built Buicks coming ashore and being advertised on our TVs. We honestly can expect no less.
Now, with the recent election, while I give The R's full backing, it looks like there's a reasonable chance that all the preceding Anti-CCP rhetoric is about to die stillborn. I'm feeling disgusted but powerless. This goes beyond the tolerable, as well as the peaceable.
The time to step back from such inequities, leaving them to the government to resolve, has passed. The Democratic process has delivered a spoiled Souffle. The people must step in. The time right now is highly premature (for action), but nearly too late (for planning). The current process must play out, if it is allowed to do so. My biggest worry is that the government will step in and move the ball completely out of play, out of reach for the common Joe and Jody.
I cannot continue on this line of thought without speaking sedition, which is not my intention, never has been. But odd times are descending upon us, and those without a plan will be left sitting at the curb, watching the parade roll by.
You know who your friends are. Talk to them, ask the previously unasked questions. Allow conjecture to run unbound, then chop it all back down to the practical. Don't move on it, but have a plan. Resistance succeeds only when it remains out of sight and earshot. Take your guidance from the French Resistance of WWII, they actually succeeded. They did so at an enormous cost, but that is the way of such things. We are not Antifa, who struts the walk, talks the part, dresses for the role, and runs at the first substantial rebuttal. Uniforms and signs are their way, and it only works when their overlords grant permission. The grey man is the proper role model.
This may all end equitably without our participation, and must be allowed a reasonable opportunity to do so. But that's Plan A. Those without a plan B will regret that absence if Plan A goes South. During the interim, if anyone makes a move to forcibly disarm the populace, not just you, but the folks down the street, resist that outrage as though your very life depends on it, because it could very well come down to just that. Ask the Poles and the Jews, Dutch and French, Russians and Yugoslavians who survived the 1940's in Europe. It was the Nuremberg laws which dictated civilian disarmament, and those same concepts are about to be reenacted at the hands of our officials-elect once they take power. Do not allow that to happen.
The news media these days are discussing the concept that the the cities are all that count, and that the rural sector can be left to wither on the vine. I think that there are still lots of folks in government who are not as dumb as that.
Finally, anyone who thinks that they can stand up to an American military formation and prevail is living in cloud cuckoo land. The numbers and means are not there; period.
Good luck and keep the faith.
Greg
Now, with the recent election, while I give The R's full backing, it looks like there's a reasonable chance that all the preceding Anti-CCP rhetoric is about to die stillborn. I'm feeling disgusted but powerless. This goes beyond the tolerable, as well as the peaceable.
The time to step back from such inequities, leaving them to the government to resolve, has passed. The Democratic process has delivered a spoiled Souffle. The people must step in. The time right now is highly premature (for action), but nearly too late (for planning). The current process must play out, if it is allowed to do so. My biggest worry is that the government will step in and move the ball completely out of play, out of reach for the common Joe and Jody.
I cannot continue on this line of thought without speaking sedition, which is not my intention, never has been. But odd times are descending upon us, and those without a plan will be left sitting at the curb, watching the parade roll by.
You know who your friends are. Talk to them, ask the previously unasked questions. Allow conjecture to run unbound, then chop it all back down to the practical. Don't move on it, but have a plan. Resistance succeeds only when it remains out of sight and earshot. Take your guidance from the French Resistance of WWII, they actually succeeded. They did so at an enormous cost, but that is the way of such things. We are not Antifa, who struts the walk, talks the part, dresses for the role, and runs at the first substantial rebuttal. Uniforms and signs are their way, and it only works when their overlords grant permission. The grey man is the proper role model.
This may all end equitably without our participation, and must be allowed a reasonable opportunity to do so. But that's Plan A. Those without a plan B will regret that absence if Plan A goes South. During the interim, if anyone makes a move to forcibly disarm the populace, not just you, but the folks down the street, resist that outrage as though your very life depends on it, because it could very well come down to just that. Ask the Poles and the Jews, Dutch and French, Russians and Yugoslavians who survived the 1940's in Europe. It was the Nuremberg laws which dictated civilian disarmament, and those same concepts are about to be reenacted at the hands of our officials-elect once they take power. Do not allow that to happen.
The news media these days are discussing the concept that the the cities are all that count, and that the rural sector can be left to wither on the vine. I think that there are still lots of folks in government who are not as dumb as that.
Finally, anyone who thinks that they can stand up to an American military formation and prevail is living in cloud cuckoo land. The numbers and means are not there; period.
Good luck and keep the faith.
Greg
if you guys only knew the scam the government calls “work visa” you’d puke.
for professional jobs/doctors it works pretty well. At times they steal docs (but not more than a purchasing agent takes a few pictures of a pricing screen before they are hired away). A lot of times even if they steal data or methods their country of origin doesn’t have the ability to capitalize anyway.
for what we’re talking about it’s a waste of paper that isn’t enforced 1%...maybe less.
...and yes I know what I’m talking about more so than most unfortunately
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You mean like the crap that Facebook is accused of by the DOJ?
Justice Department Files Lawsuit Against Facebook for Discriminating Against U.S. Workers
The Department of Justice announced today that it filed a lawsuit against Facebook Inc. for discriminating against U.S. workers.
Eh, I have a hard time pinning too much of the blame on these reasons, at least for operations like basic electronics assembly. Most plants now run 100% lead-free process (the exceptions being niche stuff like some legacy military and aerospace products), and the worker safety issues are minimal with modern equipment ("modern" in this context basically being anything less than 25 years old). Same if you're molding some plastic parts or machining castings or any number of other processes that purchasing agents love to send overseas.
The last few places I've worked at which manufactured in the US didn't bother to itemize regulatory costs - and that wasn't because these companies were not concerned about costs (this was in the automotive industry, where we did stuff like adjust prices on a daily basis to account for commodity cost changes).
Yeah, it's a different story if you're running a brass foundry (saw one of those fold due to i regulatory issues with heavy metals that were insurmountable with any sort of reasonable investment), or you've got a one-man operation where it's impossible to bury a few hundred man-hours/year. But that's not what we're discussing.
He’s actually more correct than you think.
It’s not just the materials it’s the infrastructure that costs the big bucks.
certain processing rooms in the us need powered hepa filters for example. Not talking scrips just regular vitamins.
those need
A part number
Maintenance schedule
Maintenance log
Training
Validation they are moving enough air to create positive pressure
Audit trail
Validated supplier
Yearly vendor audit
And a few more
in China the just don’t do it. And because they aren’t audited the same it’s immediate cost savings.
Here you can’t sell to walgreens with out it.
Ban all Chinese products except Ben Wa Balls because without them you have nothing but weak vaginas.
We need threads on HOW to avoid chinese good more than telling us to avoid chinese goods
It can be challenging to avoid them, even on simple stuff.
For example, some made in the USA clothes
Made in the USA Products | Duluth Trading Company
USA-made jeans, shirts, belts, work boots and shoes. Made in America with pride.
Shit sign me up. Besides the fuckin the niece part, I’ll take all the other awesome shit that comes with being the black sheep in a millionaire family.
LMAO...they have facilities all over the planet including the US
HQ is in Taiwan though you can continue to believe whatever floats your boat.
Truth goes down hard. Even white collar jobs are no longer safe. I was VP of engineering at a Bay Area company. Try to get EE engineering positions filled without using foreign engineers on work permits. US Citizens applied, were interviewed and given offers but they were generally not accepted. US applicants had out of line expectations with respect to compensation. An EE with an MSEE and 5 years of experience with XILINX or ALTERA FPGAs wanted $200K min and stock options.
If you're a company like Amazon, FB, Google or Apple, those compensation levels are easy. For smaller companies like I was employed by, not so much. We couldn't compete with the larger Bay Area companies so we were forced to look at applicants from India mostly.
The funny thing is that the engineers from India had stronger work ethics and produced higher quality results than most of their peers.
We made our own bed...it is a crying shame
Here’s another good thread on this same topic. While you may not be buying 100% made in USA, supporting companies like Vortex, Burris, NF, USO will help them add more USA assembly, more USA components and more USA jobs.
www.snipershide.com
Rifle Scopes - OPTICS NOT MADE IN CHINA.
Hello all, I've been really thinking about going the 100% made in the USA for anything I buy regardless of what it will be used for. With that said, I am fully aware that it will be difficult or near impossible when it comes to optics. So if not made in the USA, then at least NOT made in...
www.snipershide.com
We buy equipment from all over the world, some countries make certain pieces better than others.
about 10 years ago we had some Indian equipment come in with the usual 2 engineers for install etc.
One guy was pretty nice so we got to talking about how India works job wise.
he says there are just so many people with the same level of education (speaking about engineers) that there is literally a line outside the big companies.
sounds just like the Great Depression with guys wanting a job.
anyway, if the current employee missed 2 days in a row, he’s out. Pretty much anything other than do the job your told weather it’s you skill or not you do because there are actually 1000’s of people who want your job.
Hunter Biden has nothing on me when it comes to plowing thru lines off strippers asses
I work in the power semiconductor industry. I have a number of customers that wanted to sell their products into China. "The market was YUGE !". There was (and, I assume still is) the requirement from the Chinese government that the American manufacturer must provide all drawings, bills of material, subcomponent manufacturer's information to them before they will allow that American manufacturer to export their products to China.
Most customers did. This was about three or four years ago. Care to guess how much product those customers of mine are exporting to China now ? Would it come as any surprise to you that almost identical knock offs of my customer's products are starting to show up here from China ?
Most customers did. This was about three or four years ago. Care to guess how much product those customers of mine are exporting to China now ? Would it come as any surprise to you that almost identical knock offs of my customer's products are starting to show up here from China ?
One company I worked for ran into the same issues with disclosures.
We got around it by buying a small facility, hiring native production and quality people with some low end sustaining engineering. We manufactured all the products we sold there locally. We also only sold specific products into the China market.
We called it indirect extortion
i had to travel to hong kong and the new territories to visit a floppy disk factory back in the early 90s.
instead of machinery, there were hundreds of workers (i don't know how many) in one building sitting at tables manually assembling them.
i have no idea how many buildings...
this was Swire, who also owns cathay pacific much more.
instead of machinery, there were hundreds of workers (i don't know how many) in one building sitting at tables manually assembling them.
i have no idea how many buildings...
this was Swire, who also owns cathay pacific much more.
