Chronographs suck. Change my mind.

[phlegethon]

OK, I realize both the Labradar and Magnetospeed are incredibly useful tools, huge technological advancements, and very accurate when they work. But they both suck. My Labradar triggers about half the time with the microphone. I ordered Greg Piet's accelerometer trigger, which does work, but it also triggers sometimes just running the bolt, and even with that the Labradar sometimes fails to read or reads insane values (1000 fps below the other rounds, or once 9000 fps, which they said may have been from muzzle brake gases). And the interface is hideous. Why can't they have labels on the buttons? Why is the screen so tiny? They do have an iPhone app, which is worthless and clearly was never tested before being put into production.

Given that, I got a Magnetospeed with the MKMachining mount. That was more reliable once actually set up, but it's really mechanically fiddly to get it exactly .25 inches from the edge of the bore, and no closer. And the Magnetospeed itself seems incredibly flimsy for the price. I don't know how that strap system can ever work.

Neither of these were able to read my .500 magnum, although I realize that's a demanding case. I have a video of shooting five rounds with the gun almost touching the Labradar and it never picked up anything.

Like I said, I'm grateful these things exist, and I know they are an advance over the optical screens...but why can't they be better?

 

[sea2summit]

Out of the box my labradar was picking up no rifle shots and random pistol. Contacted labradar and they replaced the microphone. Hasn’t missed a capture since. Recommend you get ahold of them.

 

[phlegethon]

Out of the box my labradar was picking up no rifle shots and random pistol. Contacted labradar and they replaced the microphone. Hasn’t missed a capture since. Recommend you get ahold of them.

That would explain a lot for me.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

OK, I realize both the Labradar and Magnetospeed are incredibly useful tools, huge technological advancements, and very accurate when they work. But they both suck. My Labradar triggers about half the time with the microphone. I ordered Greg Piet's accelerometer trigger, which does work, but it also triggers sometimes just running the bolt, and even with that the Labradar sometimes fails to read or reads insane values (1000 fps below the other rounds, or once 9000 fps, which they said may have been from muzzle brake gases). And the interface is hideous. Why can't they have labels on the buttons? Why is the screen so tiny? They do have an iPhone app, which is worthless and clearly was never tested before being put into production.

Given that, I got a Magnetospeed with the MKMachining mount. That was more reliable once actually set up, but it's really mechanically fiddly to get it exactly .25 inches from the edge of the bore, and no closer. And the Magnetospeed itself seems incredibly flimsy for the price. I don't know how that strap system can ever work.

Neither of these were able to read my .500 magnum, although I realize that's a demanding case. I have a video of shooting five rounds with the gun almost touching the Labradar and it never picked up anything.

Like I said, I'm grateful these things exist, and I know they are an advance over the optical screens...but why can't they be better?

Did you try changing the sensitivity settings on the magnospeed mine wouldn’t pick up anything until I changed that

 

[Mormegil87]

You do know the Magnetospeed bayonet doesn't not have to be exactly 0.25" from the bore right? Just adjust the sensitivity.

 

[Bradu]

You are right, I would sell them both.

 

[Precisiondada]

The magnetospeed works, so does the strap. Could be an ID 10t error

 

[phlegethon]

The magnetospeed works, so does the strap. Could be an ID 10t error

It does work, but the workarounds to avoid POI shift are a pain. The strap seems inadequate for anything high recoiling. It didn't stay on my .500 magnum.

 

[phlegethon]

Did you try changing the sensitivity settings on the magnospeed mine wouldn’t pick up anything until I changed that

No, I can try that. The magnetospeed was registering every shot when it would stay in position, it was just getting there that was cumbersome.

 

[Precisiondada]

It does work, but the workarounds to avoid POI shift are a pain. The strap seems inadequate for anything high recoiling. It didn't stay on my .500 magnum.

Are you torquing the screw underneath after tightening the strap?

 

[LawnMM]

Try using the strap mount and change the sensitivity level if you don't get the results you want.

 

[lash]

OK, I realize both the Labradar and Magnetospeed are incredibly useful tools, huge technological advancements, and very accurate when they work. But they both suck. My Labradar triggers about half the time with the microphone. I ordered Greg Piet's accelerometer trigger, which does work, but it also triggers sometimes just running the bolt, and even with that the Labradar sometimes fails to read or reads insane values (1000 fps below the other rounds, or once 9000 fps, which they said may have been from muzzle brake gases). And the interface is hideous. Why can't they have labels on the buttons? Why is the screen so tiny? They do have an iPhone app, which is worthless and clearly was never tested before being put into production.

Given that, I got a Magnetospeed with the MKMachining mount. That was more reliable once actually set up, but it's really mechanically fiddly to get it exactly .25 inches from the edge of the bore, and no closer. And the Magnetospeed itself seems incredibly flimsy for the price. I don't know how that strap system can ever work.

Neither of these were able to read my .500 magnum, although I realize that's a demanding case. I have a video of shooting five rounds with the gun almost touching the Labradar and it never picked up anything.

Like I said, I'm grateful these things exist, and I know they are an advance over the optical screens...but why can't they be better?

I’ve had my MS v2 for four years or so and many hundreds of rounds. I shot my .338 LM one session with the MS attached, brake and all. Never moved, never failed to read, for 38 rounds consecutive. I’ve used it on my .308 AR, .260 Rem, .30-06, .224V, .223 AR and .22 LR. Thrown it on numerous rifles of guys at the range.

Never had a problem with it reading. Also never worried if I was 1/8” or 1/4” from the bore, the only trick with the strap is to double wrap it and to make sure that the locking buckle is not on or around the barrel. It’ll loosen if placed on a radius. Otherwise I’ve not ever had mine move, even when strapped to a suppressor.

Sorry that you’re having issues. Maybe I’ve just been lucky.

 

[Fixr]

I bought the Labradar, sold my MagnetoSpeed and gave away my Oehler 35P. Placement is the key, I have found that getting the Labradar above large brakes and in front of and closer to suppressed rifles works well and if using an external battery make sure that it is not low on charge.

 

[tunaman]

Labradar was probably too close. Large magnums are supposed to be 12-18 inches away, as I recall, and you will likely need to adjust the sensitivity.

Also, it should be placed behind the end of the barrel, not out front. Muzzle blast concussion will potentially damage the unit.

 

[phlegethon]

Labradar was probably too close. Large magnums are supposed to be 12-18 inches away, as I recall, and you will likely need to adjust the sensitivity.

Also, it should be placed behind the end of the barrel, not out front. Muzzle blast concussion will potentially damage the unit.

Yes, mine won't pick up anything with the muzzle in front of the Labradar. I think the guy above who suggested a bad microphone may be right because the behavior of mine is really not consistent with what other people describe.

I do appreciate that my venting has resulted in so many helpful suggestions. I've contacted Labradar about the unit.

 

[Racer88]

Hmmm... My magnetospeed v3 worked PERFECTLY right out of the box. I changed nothing. Never touched the sensitivity setting. It works whether I use the strap (and stays on rock solid), or whether I use the MKM rail mount. My only complaint is the s-curve adjustable brackets on the MKM are a bit tedious to get it lined up. But, once I lined it up and cranked down the set screw, it was good to go for many extended shooting sessions. My MS V3 has never missed a shot.

 

[Rthur]

Oehler p35.
Pain in the ass to set up but it works.

R

 

[Archwarder]

A man with one chronograph knows his bullets speed.
A man with many chronographs is never quite sure.

 

[theLBC]

how can i blame load deviation for my misses if i know the velocities from the muzzle are good?

 

[BCX]

It does work, but the workarounds to avoid POI shift are a pain. The strap seems inadequate for anything high recoiling. It didn't stay on my .500 magnum.

I have had a V-3 since they were released. Never had one issue w it. I use it on a 375HH and 338 AI never one issue. Just saying........

 

[65shootmoor]

I agree on the Magnetospeed strap, wish it could clamp somehow. After $350 on the unit, I don't really want to spend more to make it work better.

 

[lash]

I agree on the Magnetospeed strap, wish it could clamp somehow. After $350 on the unit, I don't really want to spend more to make it work better.

Just make sure that the part of the strap with the buckle is vertical and not on a curve of the barrel or mount. Done right, it doesn’t move.

 

[phlegethon]

The display on the Magnetospeed is great. I wish the Labradar had the some type of thing, both the remote connection and the live display of the current group.

 

[65shootmoor]

Just make sure that the part of the strap with the buckle is vertical and not on a curve of the barrel or mount. Done right, it doesn’t move.

I can get it tight, just takes more fiddling than I like. If the teeth on buckle would bite just a bit more, it would be great. A rachet system would be even better.

 

[Strykervet]

I didn't know you had problems with those!

I have my POS Chrony I got over a decade ago that I swear never works when I need it to, but somehow I manage to coax enough useable data out of it to postpone replacing it. I have more than enough stuff on my want list to keep me going for a long, long time without adding more!

But no way I could get by with no chronograph, it's a necessary tool for a handloader and like most handloading tools, going back is almost impossible to imagine, let alone do.

 

[sea2summit]

I didn't know you had problems with those!

I have my POS Chrony I got over a decade ago that I swear never works when I need it to, but somehow I manage to coax enough useable data out of it to postpone replacing it. I have more than enough stuff on my want list to keep me going for a long, long time without adding more!

But no way I could get by with no chronograph, it's a necessary tool for a handloader and like most handloading tools, going back is almost impossible to imagine, let alone do.

I was doing using the same excuse and getting the same results untill a memorial day sale on labradar. After mine got running....I will never go back to a traditional chrony. Ever.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

I don't have either. I have an old Prochrono Plus from the late 90's. Works ok, misses a shot once in a while. I can take my 100 yard zero and velocity from the Prochrono Plus and be on paper at 1k.

 

[BigTex]

I have had 0 issues with my LabRadar. I know that's not everyone's experience, but it is mine.

 

[Steel head]

I have a magnetospeed sporter.

So much nicer than optical crony’s

My local range has a labradar you can use for free.

The one time I tried it it worked excellent giving the same numbers as my sporter.

 

[vh20]

A man with one chronograph knows his bullets speed.
A man with many chronographs is never quite sure.

Point taken, but honestly when I ran my MS3 and Labradar concurrently on two sessions (different days) they were always within 4 fps of each other on every shot.
Now, I also have a Shooting Chrony Beta and a Pro Chrono Digital. You would be correct about them.

 

[steve123]

Oehler p35.
Pain in the ass to set up but it works.

R

For some darn reason my 35P won't pick 17 and 20 caliber bullets well. The ES ends up being like 150 fps??? I know that's not correct because I weigh powder to the kernel and the vertical is normal at distance. Otherwise the velocity's it shows have been right on.

Two of my friends have Labradars and both have their problems, it's a when they work thing???

A friend borrowed my 35P because his dope wasn't lining up with his 6mmCM and Magnetospeed??? The dope worked when he used the velocity with my 35P.

Chrony brand truely does suck, used 3-4 of them both friends and my own, arg. I hate them!!!

I'm just staying with my 35P even though it is a pain to set up.

 

[Rthur]

For some darn reason my 35P won't pick 17 and 20 caliber bullets well. The ES ends up being like 150 fps??? I know that's not correct because I weigh powder to the kernel and the vertical is normal at distance. Otherwise the velocity's it shows have been right on.

Two of my friends have Labradars and both have their problems, it's a when they work thing???

A friend borrowed my 35P because his dope wasn't lining up with his 6mmCM and Magnetospeed??? The dope worked when he used the velocity with my 35P.

Chrony brand truely does suck, used 3-4 of them both friends and my own, arg. I hate them!!!

I'm just staying with my 35P even though it is a pain to set up.

Have used most myself.
There are three Oehlers in my general area.
Have shot across all of them with my load and they all give the same numbers.
I need to make a fixture for the sensors/shades for faster setup.

R

 

[Sutherlandsd]

I literally Chrono every shot fired from my rifle with my labradar. I can't remember the last error. I do get some crazy Bluetooth shit at times with my phone but the labradar just works.

 

[hlee]

It does work, but the workarounds to avoid POI shift are a pain. The strap seems inadequate for anything high recoiling. It didn't stay on my .500 magnum.

Stayed on the brake-less 300 weatherby mag (sporter weight barrel) I was shooting a month or so ago. I set mine up at home and when I get to the range it only takes a minute or 2 to put it on and strap it down. So easy a..., well maybe not.

 

[Bantam1]

I have the MS V3 and the only issue I have is with my .223 and 6.5CM. It shows lower velocity than what I get when I have corrected at 600 yards. My .308 is spot on what it shows for velocity. On the 6.5 I have had it read 75-125 fps slower than what I get with corrected data, and to be honest the corrected data seems to be closer to what it should be. Factory Hornady 140 ELD-M reads 2640-2650 out of my 26" Bartein. Corrected data shows 2725 for example. Maybe I need to play with the sensitivity on the smaller rounds?

Aside from that it always works, always reads and has worked across multiple platforms. I have not had the strap come loose. There is some POI shift with the lighter profile barrels. Even with it being off it still helps with hand loading.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’ve gotten to where I only use chrono to make sure my loads are consistent. And I’ll use it as a starting point (sometimes) in calculator. After that, I just let the real world results + calculator tell me what it wants the muzzle velocity to be.

I can’t go in and change the algorithm/formula in the software, so I don’t have an issue changing the one or two inputs I can change (velocity and bc). So, if I’m willing to let the calculator tell me what my velocity is, not a huge deal to have chrono data except for load consistency.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I will give Magneto speed a shout out. My control unit quit working so I called them and they said send it back we will send you a refurbish one to replace yours. Mine is 5 years old well out of any warranty. So I am happy they will replace at no charge.

 

[Cerwinski]

Only thing about my MS I don't like is that I can't get it to work with my phone. It would be nice to be able to pull up data without getting out the actual unit.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Only thing about my MS I don't like is that I can't get it to work with my phone. It would be nice to be able to pull up data without getting out the actual unit.

Are you trying to connect the bayonet to your phone directly?

 

[sharpdoug]

Both my labradar and magnetospeed are pretty close. I agree with you about the strap setup kind of hokey.

 

[briscoetab]

Labradar was probably too close. Large magnums are supposed to be 12-18 inches away, as I recall, and you will likely need to adjust the sensitivity.

Also, it should be placed behind the end of the barrel, not out front. Muzzle blast concussion will potentially damage the unit.

The unit should be placed in front of the barrel with a brake with ports that direct any gas backwards, which he says he has a brake in the first post don’t know which direction the ports face. I actually think this is the biggest reason people are having issues with the labradar, improper setup. If you look at Fixr’s post with the pictures he has the unit setup correctly. Unless the unit is broke, it works and if it isn’t broke then it is user error not an issue with the labradar.

I have not had one issue with mine, have not missed one shot yet. I have not used it with a suppressor only with braked and non-brakes rifles so I cannot speak about suppressed rifles but from everything I’ve read I’d its setup correctly with a suppressed rifle it works too. I have had to rig up my unit because I have been waiting on a tripod from PVA, so my setup for labradar is very poor and unstable but I have still been able to capture every shot.

 

[ToddM]

All of them have issues in some environments/applications. If you have a range to yourself the lab radar is nice, but mine struggled with .22's, picked up guys next to me, so I was frequently chasing the right sensitivity and was worthless for archery indoors when tuning a bow. However, it's faster to setup, and great if you are doing multiple guns. The magnetospeed is more annoying to setup, can impact POI, etc. but it works on crowded ranges, and has no problems with small calibers.

Honestly aside for load development (getting ES/SD #'s) I think they are over-rated, and even then you are more concerned about consistency than accuracy of the actual velocity. In terms of efficient/accurate dope, rifle shooters are about 3 decades behind archers. We are just now starting to see some advocate for worrying less about muzzle velocity, and more about being able to adjust your dope to your rifle/loads exact performance on the range at various distances, and banded ballistic profiles. Archers have had to do this for a long time because their arrows lose velocity faster/slower because most everyone shoots different fletching/arrow length/weights so everyone's projectile does not perform the same even at the same arrow weight/speed out of a bow and the longer distance you shoot the worse it gets. They learned long ago that just plugging 1-2 numbers into software is a poor fit. To me if your software can do banded profiles, and you know all the various environment variables is vastly superior to just plugging in a velocity and then having to lie to the software based on empirical data.

The one I like is the new trend of shooting at a horizontal line to fine tune elevation/zero, archers have been doing this for at least 4 decades to make/verify sight tapes/dope at various yardages, the human brain naturally shoots better at a horizontal line than trying to hit a bullseye. They do the same with vertical lines to eval wind adjustments/tuning but that really doesn't apply to rifles as everyone's projectile is the same.

It's just kind of interesting to me that the rifle arena ballistics are so far behind what archery has been doing for decades because everyone wants a linear equation to fit their setup based just on muzzle velocity and that was never an option for archery.

 

[powerspc]

Have had the LabRadar for about a year and a half now; I have captured thousands and thousands of rifle rounds (literally thousands, probably somewhere around 11,000+ at this point - .338LM, .300WM and .308) I can count on one hand the number of misses. I would contact them, they're good folks and I'm sure can help you out.

 

[tunaman]

The unit should be placed in front of the barrel with a brake with ports that direct any gas backwards, which he says he has a brake in the first post don’t know which direction the ports face. I actually think this is the biggest reason people are having issues with the labradar, improper setup. If you look at Fixr’s post with the pictures he has the unit setup correctly. Unless the unit is broke, it works and if it isn’t broke then it is user error not an issue with the labradar.

I’m just going by the instructions provided by the people who designed and manufactured the device - here is the diagram from their documentation:

I am fairly new to mine, but haven’t had any problems getting data from .260, 375 H&H and .338 so far.

 

[phlegethon]

Even if my unit has a faulty microphone, the fact that you have to place the Labradar either at the muzzle or in front of it (for muzzle brakes) is a big design flaw in a device where you have to be able to reach the controls. They should have separated the radar and control unit like with the Magnetospeed.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Like I said, I'm grateful these things exist, and I know they are an advance over the optical screens...but why can't they be better?

I'm a proponent of using modern technology but riflemen have been hand loading incredible loads since before chronographs were available. I'm presently working up 6.5 Creedmoor loads with 147 gr. Hornady ELD-M's and Alliant RL-26. I started with data from others who worked up loads and dropped everything 10%.

Today I am getting close to where I want to be - I have exceeded factory 147 gr. ELD-M velocity (because my zero is now wrong - rounds are striking much higher on the same target with the same zero) and my accuracy/group size is shrinking. No signs of pressure and I'm working up in .1 gr. increments now. I'm not looking for 6.5X47 performance from a 6.5 CM but I'm actually getting there. Sub MOA performance, faster than factory performance, no excess pressure signs, and no chronograph.

It'd be easier developing with one *but* I can buy a lot of powder, primers, bullets, and brass for the cost of implementing a chronograph. Plus, like others, I have always wondered why my Nephews Labradar, my brothers MagnetoSpeed, and a borrowed Gun Buddies chronograph with the crazy screens and all that all give a different analysis. Somebody is full of shit...one of them is wrong. I suspect all of them are a compromise.

I'm doing fine without one for 40+ years of shooting and reloading. Cool thing to have...not a show stopper.

VooDoo

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm a proponent of using modern technology but riflemen have been hand loading incredible loads since before chronographs were available. I'm presently working up 6.5 Creedmoor loads with 147 gr. Hornady ELD-M's and Alliant RL-26. I started with data from others who worked up loads and dropped everything 10%.

Today I am getting close to where I want to be - I have exceeded factory 147 gr. ELD-M velocity (because my zero is now wrong - rounds are striking much higher on the same target with the same zero) and my accuracy/group size is shrinking. No signs of pressure and I'm working up in .1 gr. increments now. I'm not looking for 6.5X47 performance from a 6.5 CM but I'm actually getting there. Sub MOA performance, faster than factory performance, no excess pressure signs, and no chronograph.

It'd be easier developing with one *but* I can buy a lot of powder, primers, bullets, and brass for the cost of implementing a chronograph. Plus, like others, I have always wondered why my Nephews Labradar, my brothers MagnetoSpeed, and a borrowed Gun Buddies chronograph with the crazy screens and all that all give a different analysis. Somebody is full of shit...one of them is wrong. I suspect all of them are a compromise.

I'm doing fine without one for 40+ years of shooting and reloading. Cool thing to have...not a show stopper.

VooDoo

Please cite some examples of magneto and labradar being far enough off from each other to matter? Except when user error, they are usually pretty close.

The ones with screens will be different because they are typically not at the muzzle and at least several feet away.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Sorry. Didn't document it. Feel free to disregard my observations. We ran 3 chronographs and they all were more than 2% different than each other. Probably not significant. My point is that I'm developing sub .5 MOA Handloads without a chronograph. They are nice. They are not omnipotent nor essential.

Oh, I see it now- user error. Probably that. The devices are omnipotent. Likely the failure was mine for which I apologize. I'll continue developing sub MOA hand loads without a chronograph but feel free to laugh and trash me when I blow a gun up.

VooDoo