Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

[NICKNICK]

How important is it to remove the powder residue from the outside of the cartridge neck before resizing?

If it is left on and scratches the die, is the damage to the die very important? Are the scratches made in the die enough to functionally damage the brass, or does it only cosmetically damage the brass? I picture anything other than a deep gouge not hurting strength.

I might be more afraid of leaving behind tiny bits of abrasive from scotchbriting the necks than I am of the powder residue. I picture aluminum oxide (or whatever they're embedding in the scotchbrite pads) being harder on a carbide die than burned powder deposits, but I don't know for sure.

Is this something that will only become an issue after using a die 20,000 times?

I'm not interested in polishing brass for cosmetic reasons. I'm only interested in functionality here.

 

[TheGerman]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

I've never gone any further than a regular tumbling with brass and have never had an issue with the dies being scratched or chambering issues.

If for some reason the residue is so thick that its caked on, you have other issues. But from what you are explaining, this is the simple residue left after being fired. I'd tumble it and be done with it; you will probably cause more damage to the brass/die by cleaning/scraping/using abrasives or chemicals than if you left it alone or just tumbled it.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

I know some will not agree, but I have never let that stop me.

If your brass is clean. This means you pull it out of a clean box, put it in the gun, put it back in the clean box when spent.
I do this all the time. It is fine to lube and reload. Now that is assuming you use ISDW for lube. ISDW softens the carbon and when you run it through the die your necks will wipe quite clean I assure you. Dry lubing or some other lube I don't know. I have been known to fire as many as 3 times before tumbling and it is then that I usually tumble to a reasonable polish and anneal.
When you are done sizing take out the decapping stem, clean the stem with soft rag and some ISDW and then wipe out die with a rag on a small wooden dowel that allows you to get all the way through. If you plan to put them up for a while a very light coat of Marvel Mystery oil will suffice.

IF...a piece of brass(or a pile) hits the ground, you can only rightly and safely assume it has picked up a bit of grit. Wipe it down by hand thoroughly or just tumble in your favorite media.

Long story short. I have never had neck carbon scratch a die in the many years I have reloaded. I have never worn out a set of dies either. Your brass does not need to sparkle it simply needs to be clean.

If you shoot in a two man team from the ground, then always clean your brass and assume that your box has gotten infected with dirt or dust. In this case clean your brass and wash and dry your box.

 

[lightman]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

It's probably something that would cause you trouble in 20,000 rounds.But,I would wipe the dirt and grit off,maybe with a towel and some mineral spirits.If you scratch the die,the scratched die will leave a scratch on every case after that.The cases need to be clean,but don't have to be polished.Also,any grit can find its way into your chamber. Lightman

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching


400 grit sandpaper
or
000 steel wool

A twist or two of the wrist of the hand holding either the case or the abrasive removes anything from the case mouth exterior and the case shoulder too.

My case mouth interiors are chamfered, and my bullets are coated, so other than blowing dust out of the case body I'm on to priming.......

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

"How important is it to remove the powder residue from the outside of the cartridge neck before resizing? "

It isn't. I've reloaded for 47 years, none of us had tumblers for a couple of decades after I started then Lyman introduced vib tumblers at a rational price and shiney cases suddenly became the fad that many now seem to think is a necessity; it is not. In fact, the "no lube" quality of carbide pistol dies actually supposed the smoke residue <span style="text-decoration: underline">would</span> still be on the cases to function as a mild lube!

Steel sizers are case hardened like a file. You are not going to 'scratch' a file with the smoke residue on a case, nor will it scratch a die. In fact, it's much harder to scratch a die even with grains of sand than you would believe, the sand will crumble and imbed in the soft brass rather than in the hardened steel die. Carbide sizers make steel dies seem soft, it takes diamond to cut, polish or scratch carbide so no smoke, dirt, sandpaper or green pad is going to change it.

Scratched cases almost always result from bits of dry brass that have adhered to the die wall - it's called galling - due to insufficent case lube on a very clean surface. It starts when we slide two dissimler metals together under pressure - like sizing - and microscopic bits of the softer metal sticks to the harder as if it's welded. After galling starts, the bits will continue to pick up more brass from each successive case and grow. Eventually the scratches can get so large they may actually weaken the cases.

You can remove the galling at home. Make a die lap from a split wood dowel wrapped with a green Scotchbrite pad and chuck it in a medium speed drill, then spin the lap in the die for several minutes to remove the galling; you would have to run the lap for hours to measureably change the dimensions of the die. The green pad will cut the brass much faster if you keep it wet with a good copper solvent bore cleaner like Sweet's 7.62 or similar. Stop and clean the die from time to time, try sizing another case to see if the scratching has stopped.

Contrary to "conventional wisdom", a soft matt finish in a sizer is much better than a mirror shine; case lube can stay in the tiny scratches better. That lube layer helps sizing and reduces the probablity of the galling occuring again. But,if you really want a shiney die start with the clean die and wrap your lap with 4/0 steel wool to burnish the surface and then wrap clean cloth around it and apply green or white metal polish to the lap and shine 'till you're blind!

Good luck.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

First, it was, " Naaah, ya don't need to clean your rifle after ya shoot it".

Now it's, "Naaah, ya don't need to clean your brass before ya resize it".

Your choice. I'll keep putting clean brass into clean dies, and clean ammo into clean rifles.

Some day, a hundred years from now, we'll all be doing the same thing. For the now, I'll clean my brass, my dies, and my guns.

I'd like there to be something left, in good condition, for those who come after me.

Call me irresponsible...

Greg

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

"Call me irresponsible..."

All that is a real stretch of what I said.

Greg, 'clean' is a relitive term; I didn't say to put 'dirty' cases in case hardened steel or carbide dies (or soft steel chambers). I took the time to explain why the common fears of scratching the dies is overstated, how galling occurs and how to correct it; you only counter ME, nothing of what I said.

The current fad of glittery cases is meaningless except as eye candy and you know it. On the other hand, the 'smokey' residue the OP mentioned does nothing harmful and is actually helpful in carbide pistol dies.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

Sorry if I came across as being overly critical; and I wasn't basing my reply solely on your response. You're right; it is a stretch of your comments.

I agree with you that glitter is superfluous; and I also believe that the soot itself is at least relatively harmless. I still remove it anyway;, it galls me, if not the dies.

Greg

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Cleaning powder residue vs. die scratching

I tumble too but I don't kid myself that it means anything to the function of my ammo or to my dies. I polished cases like jewelry at first but after a few years I quit that and settle for a factory like matt finish now.