Need some info on compact climbing and rappelling gear. Looking to add some to my SHTF gear. Good heavy duty carabiners, 8's, rope, anchors, etc..
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Climbing and rappelling gear
- Thread starter Babo
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IsleofGough
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Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Note that rappelling and climbing ropes are often a bit different. You can use climbing rope to rappel, but it stretches and can abrade over edges. Static rope is generally best for descending and ascending but dynamic (stretchy) rope is needed for climbing to avoid shock forces with falls. Choose locking carabiners for your purposes. I personally don't like figure eight devices, since they twist ropes. Both for rescue and for climbing/belaying/rapelling there are better devices (racks, ATC device, etc.). For anchors there are endless varieties and the most expensive but overall most versatile are the spring camming devices. Make sure you learn about backups, distributing loads, etc. A good caving or climbing course will go over this.
Note that rappelling and climbing ropes are often a bit different. You can use climbing rope to rappel, but it stretches and can abrade over edges. Static rope is generally best for descending and ascending but dynamic (stretchy) rope is needed for climbing to avoid shock forces with falls. Choose locking carabiners for your purposes. I personally don't like figure eight devices, since they twist ropes. Both for rescue and for climbing/belaying/rapelling there are better devices (racks, ATC device, etc.). For anchors there are endless varieties and the most expensive but overall most versatile are the spring camming devices. Make sure you learn about backups, distributing loads, etc. A good caving or climbing course will go over this.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Head to your nearest REI. Petzl is world class gear! Check and double check. back up your back ups.~~~~~~~~~~~~bog
Head to your nearest REI. Petzl is world class gear! Check and double check. back up your back ups.~~~~~~~~~~~~bog
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves.
You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
If you don't know how make your own harness out of webbing, make and climb with prusiks and a Texas Rig, and repel with a pair of 'biners, you got no business buying any rope, ascenders/descenders, and trad gear.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about you're better off stuffing more food and ammo in your bag rather than rope an climbing gear.
If you don't know how make your own harness out of webbing, make and climb with prusiks and a Texas Rig, and repel with a pair of 'biners, you got no business buying any rope, ascenders/descenders, and trad gear.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about you're better off stuffing more food and ammo in your bag rather than rope an climbing gear.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
+1 hurt or worse.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
+1 hurt or worse.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
What are you trying to do with climbing/rap gear? That will have a huge impact in what the proper answer to this question will be. I sport climb and am getting in to trad and my buddy is trying to get me in to aid climbing. Your skill level and experience level will dictate what type of gear you need.
Steve
What are you trying to do with climbing/rap gear? That will have a huge impact in what the proper answer to this question will be. I sport climb and am getting in to trad and my buddy is trying to get me in to aid climbing. Your skill level and experience level will dictate what type of gear you need.
Steve
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Check out this book: "Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills".
It has a ton of info and diagrams with regards to anchors, belay devices, etc.
A book alone won't keep you safe, but it's a good explanation of the basic principles and proper use of equipment.
Check out this book: "Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills".
It has a ton of info and diagrams with regards to anchors, belay devices, etc.
A book alone won't keep you safe, but it's a good explanation of the basic principles and proper use of equipment.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
+1 on that book along with several other titles by the Mountaineers. I picked up Freedom of the Hills on Amazon used for like $8 in new condition a while ago.
+1 on that book along with several other titles by the Mountaineers. I picked up Freedom of the Hills on Amazon used for like $8 in new condition a while ago.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
Hell Dude, its a GUN forum. Juss sayin.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
Hell Dude, its a GUN forum. Juss sayin.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
...nothing says "Serious Tactical Marksman" like climbing gear
If the SHTF, the last thing you will be interested in is rock climbing or repelling. Climbing is a great sport (been doing it for 35+ years)but it is not the kind of kit to put in your bug out bag. If you want to learn about climbing gear, hook up with REI and take a class or two. The right gear will start to stick to you as you understand how to use it.
...nothing says "Serious Tactical Marksman" like climbing gear
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Did and taught High Angle, Cave and Cliff rescue for 10+ years until I got a job that wouldn't let me off to participate.
Probably the bible for rope work is "ON ROPE". Currently having a brain fart on the author and having a major WTF is my copy moment. Its not on my bookshelf where it should be and there are only 2 or 3 people who I would have loaned it to and don't remember doing that.
If you are putting together a bug out bag kit I'd keep it simple and light.
100-150' of 8mm static line
20' 1" webbing
small figure 8
2-3 locking carabiners
3 prussic loops
leather gloves
The 8mm is well under the standard 1/2"(12mm) used for climbing/rappeling but still has enough weight capacity to be used in an emergency. It can be stored in a space about the size of a 3mag AR pouch. Can be used as a safety hand line, belay line, aid constructing shelter, etc.
The webbing is to tie a swiss seat and similar uses to the rope.
Small 8 double wrapping would be preferred with this small of a rope. Recommended the small 8 over a Rescue 8 or rack strictly due to size and weight.
Prussics are go get back up the rope.
Did and taught High Angle, Cave and Cliff rescue for 10+ years until I got a job that wouldn't let me off to participate.
Probably the bible for rope work is "ON ROPE". Currently having a brain fart on the author and having a major WTF is my copy moment. Its not on my bookshelf where it should be and there are only 2 or 3 people who I would have loaned it to and don't remember doing that.
If you are putting together a bug out bag kit I'd keep it simple and light.
100-150' of 8mm static line
20' 1" webbing
small figure 8
2-3 locking carabiners
3 prussic loops
leather gloves
The 8mm is well under the standard 1/2"(12mm) used for climbing/rappeling but still has enough weight capacity to be used in an emergency. It can be stored in a space about the size of a 3mag AR pouch. Can be used as a safety hand line, belay line, aid constructing shelter, etc.
The webbing is to tie a swiss seat and similar uses to the rope.
Small 8 double wrapping would be preferred with this small of a rope. Recommended the small 8 over a Rescue 8 or rack strictly due to size and weight.
Prussics are go get back up the rope.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Learn first. Buy second.
The Ontario Rock Climbing Association (ORCA) has a very good manual for learning the basics: knots, prussics, munter hitches, harnesses out of webbing and that kind of stuff.
Learn first. Buy second.
The Ontario Rock Climbing Association (ORCA) has a very good manual for learning the basics: knots, prussics, munter hitches, harnesses out of webbing and that kind of stuff.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: packratt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 8mm is well under the standard 1/2"(12mm) used for climbing/rappeling but still has enough weight capacity to be used in an emergency. It can be stored in a space about the size of a 3mag AR pouch. Can be used as a safety hand line, belay line, aid constructing shelter, etc.
</div></div>
Uh, a static rope should NOT be used as a belay line. A fall as short as 24" onto a hard static line can result in a serious spinal injury.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: packratt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 8mm is well under the standard 1/2"(12mm) used for climbing/rappeling but still has enough weight capacity to be used in an emergency. It can be stored in a space about the size of a 3mag AR pouch. Can be used as a safety hand line, belay line, aid constructing shelter, etc.
</div></div>
Uh, a static rope should NOT be used as a belay line. A fall as short as 24" onto a hard static line can result in a serious spinal injury.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Don't buy anything. Go find the nearest climbing gym, buy a membership, a lesson or two, rent some gear and learn the Basics. Then, ask experienced climbers what to buy, not people on the Hide... no offense.
Don't buy anything. Go find the nearest climbing gym, buy a membership, a lesson or two, rent some gear and learn the Basics. Then, ask experienced climbers what to buy, not people on the Hide... no offense.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Graham has it!
LEARN first, then think about buying.
Your loved ones will thank you for it.
Graham has it!
LEARN first, then think about buying.
Your loved ones will thank you for it.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
"Charlie Bronson's always got rope"
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"Charlie Bronson's always got rope"
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Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Love it.
I concur with Graham.... Be careful, learn, buy GOOD GEAR.
Love it.
I concur with Graham.... Be careful, learn, buy GOOD GEAR.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Babo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need some info on compact climbing and rappelling gear. Looking to add some to my SHTF gear. Good heavy duty carabiners, 8's, rope, anchors, etc.. </div></div>
For the simplest, 200' of 6mm perlon as an escape rope. A trick to tie the end of the perlon into an equalized anchor but no way I can explain it here. Its a modified figure of eight with an extra one or two loops. Running the perlon through 15' of tubular webbing will resist cutting on sharp objects used as an anchor inside a building.
Oval carabiner and use a biner wrap as a friction device to rappel. If you have two carabiners, you can clip one to your sit sling by tying an overhand loop in the sit sling at the 3 -5 oclock, clip the spare krab to this loop, run your 6mm perlon after the biner wrap through the waist krab that will double the friction.
6-8' of webbing to tie up a simple sit harness.
Find at least two solid anchors of course one will work with your life is on the line, tie 200' of perlon into a figure of eight with or without extra loops around the anchor(s).
Tie 8' webbing into big loop using a simple overhand, twist the looped webbing in the middle, sit on the twist, clip oval krab to the ends of the big loop, wrap perlon around the spine of the oval krab, butterfly coil the perlon, throw the middle out the window first, now let the end go...this will keep the perlon from twisting into a rats nest which can be bad, rappel. If you are top heavy with a rifle or what ever, tie another 6' piece of webbing into a loop, twist it and place twist between your shoulder blade and wrap around chest, use another oval krab to clip the chest sling to the 200' perlon, this will help keep you upright. If wearing a pack, clip a krab to one of the shoulder straps. This is the quickest emergency escape system I know. I taught sheep hunters to use it too.
Kleimheist is the best friction hitch for ascending a rope but it is one directional unlike a prussik that is unidirectional. If you load a prussik, it can be very hard to release, with a kleim, once you remove the load it slides.
For actual high angle anchor building
50' of 9/16" tubular webbing
50' of 6mm perlon
5 Black Diamond QuickSilver screwgates
1 set DMM Walnuts
2 pink #.5 Camp Tricams, one filed down to a .3
1 Red #1 Camp Tricam
#7,#8,#9 Wild Country RockCentrics
Black Diamond pitons, AO size dependant
Getting down or going up
1 Black Diamond RockLock or VaporLock
Black Diamond ATC Guide
Black Diamond Alpine Bod
Mammut Revelation 70 meter rope
5' of 5mm perlon
6 - 10 Mammut Contact slings
Up to 24 WildCountry Helium Clean Wire Krabs
Black Diamond Half Dome, I prefer HB Dyneema but try to find one
1 Wild Country Ropeman MKII
Yates Screamer
Black Diamond Daisy 55"
Sharp knife
Pika Cragster Kit with Yo hammer for the most extreme
Proper knowledge, you do not get it from a gym, a book or REI. Backcountry and especially alpine require a high degree of many skills. You must know how to build an anchor (potential belay is the highest skill) escape, tension release, pass a knot, EMT, snow conditions, weather, terrain and a lots more. Escaping from a house or building is quite easy to know. I helped fireman build a quick kit to get out of a window if trapped....see above.
I have decades of guiding and instructing, ran my own guide service, trained local PJs, fireman, PD, sheep / goat hunters, I know lots of tricks but climbing skills are a life long learning and no one actually masters it all.
Any questions just ask.
Good luck!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Babo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need some info on compact climbing and rappelling gear. Looking to add some to my SHTF gear. Good heavy duty carabiners, 8's, rope, anchors, etc.. </div></div>
For the simplest, 200' of 6mm perlon as an escape rope. A trick to tie the end of the perlon into an equalized anchor but no way I can explain it here. Its a modified figure of eight with an extra one or two loops. Running the perlon through 15' of tubular webbing will resist cutting on sharp objects used as an anchor inside a building.
Oval carabiner and use a biner wrap as a friction device to rappel. If you have two carabiners, you can clip one to your sit sling by tying an overhand loop in the sit sling at the 3 -5 oclock, clip the spare krab to this loop, run your 6mm perlon after the biner wrap through the waist krab that will double the friction.
6-8' of webbing to tie up a simple sit harness.
Find at least two solid anchors of course one will work with your life is on the line, tie 200' of perlon into a figure of eight with or without extra loops around the anchor(s).
Tie 8' webbing into big loop using a simple overhand, twist the looped webbing in the middle, sit on the twist, clip oval krab to the ends of the big loop, wrap perlon around the spine of the oval krab, butterfly coil the perlon, throw the middle out the window first, now let the end go...this will keep the perlon from twisting into a rats nest which can be bad, rappel. If you are top heavy with a rifle or what ever, tie another 6' piece of webbing into a loop, twist it and place twist between your shoulder blade and wrap around chest, use another oval krab to clip the chest sling to the 200' perlon, this will help keep you upright. If wearing a pack, clip a krab to one of the shoulder straps. This is the quickest emergency escape system I know. I taught sheep hunters to use it too.
Kleimheist is the best friction hitch for ascending a rope but it is one directional unlike a prussik that is unidirectional. If you load a prussik, it can be very hard to release, with a kleim, once you remove the load it slides.
For actual high angle anchor building
50' of 9/16" tubular webbing
50' of 6mm perlon
5 Black Diamond QuickSilver screwgates
1 set DMM Walnuts
2 pink #.5 Camp Tricams, one filed down to a .3
1 Red #1 Camp Tricam
#7,#8,#9 Wild Country RockCentrics
Black Diamond pitons, AO size dependant
Getting down or going up
1 Black Diamond RockLock or VaporLock
Black Diamond ATC Guide
Black Diamond Alpine Bod
Mammut Revelation 70 meter rope
5' of 5mm perlon
6 - 10 Mammut Contact slings
Up to 24 WildCountry Helium Clean Wire Krabs
Black Diamond Half Dome, I prefer HB Dyneema but try to find one
1 Wild Country Ropeman MKII
Yates Screamer
Black Diamond Daisy 55"
Sharp knife
Pika Cragster Kit with Yo hammer for the most extreme
Proper knowledge, you do not get it from a gym, a book or REI. Backcountry and especially alpine require a high degree of many skills. You must know how to build an anchor (potential belay is the highest skill) escape, tension release, pass a knot, EMT, snow conditions, weather, terrain and a lots more. Escaping from a house or building is quite easy to know. I helped fireman build a quick kit to get out of a window if trapped....see above.
I have decades of guiding and instructing, ran my own guide service, trained local PJs, fireman, PD, sheep / goat hunters, I know lots of tricks but climbing skills are a life long learning and no one actually masters it all.
Any questions just ask.
Good luck!
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Belaying is used in other instances than rock climbing. You can belay someone or a load down a slope something similar.
Typically when a static line is used as a climbing belay it is not a loose belay and is almost tight enough to be classified as an assist.
You don't really find dynamic rope under ground. The loose weave of the sheath and lay of the strands is too susceptible to abrasion of the mud. Plus it's a specialty piece of gear you have to drag along.
Belaying is used in other instances than rock climbing. You can belay someone or a load down a slope something similar.
Typically when a static line is used as a climbing belay it is not a loose belay and is almost tight enough to be classified as an assist.
You don't really find dynamic rope under ground. The loose weave of the sheath and lay of the strands is too susceptible to abrasion of the mud. Plus it's a specialty piece of gear you have to drag along.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
The OP was asking about equipment for a "bug out bag" situation therefore I would keep to a minimum of equipment.
With the exception of initial escape from a building the need for true vertical work (climbing/rappelling)to be of minimum benefit. Most of the time you can detour 100 yards in either direction and there will be a non technical way around the obstacle.
When you are dangling on a rope either going up or down you are a nice target.
More likely scenarios would be using the rope as a safety crossing/descending a scree slope or muddy incline. Crossing running water.
The OP was asking about equipment for a "bug out bag" situation therefore I would keep to a minimum of equipment.
With the exception of initial escape from a building the need for true vertical work (climbing/rappelling)to be of minimum benefit. Most of the time you can detour 100 yards in either direction and there will be a non technical way around the obstacle.
When you are dangling on a rope either going up or down you are a nice target.
More likely scenarios would be using the rope as a safety crossing/descending a scree slope or muddy incline. Crossing running water.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
45 308 do you have a pic of the Kleimheist. Not familiar with that one.
Never had a problem breaking prussiks. Hate the damn things I'd rather have my ropewalker system any day. Haven't ever gotten into it but I've seen people racing on rope and they can cover 600' on a rope walker faster than you'd believe.
Discussing climbing/descending/rescue techniques can generate bigger and more arguments than rifle scopes on this site. There are 3 different schools of thought Climbers, NFPA, and Cavers and all think their way is the best.
45 308 do you have a pic of the Kleimheist. Not familiar with that one.
Never had a problem breaking prussiks. Hate the damn things I'd rather have my ropewalker system any day. Haven't ever gotten into it but I've seen people racing on rope and they can cover 600' on a rope walker faster than you'd believe.
Discussing climbing/descending/rescue techniques can generate bigger and more arguments than rifle scopes on this site. There are 3 different schools of thought Climbers, NFPA, and Cavers and all think their way is the best.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
"On Rope" is by Bruce Smith and Allen Padgett
"Rappelling" by Tom Martin is a good beginning read.
Need these type books check a good friends site out, Mike will have way more reading material then you'll need.
http://www.chesslerbooks.com/eCart/default.asp?idAffiliate=
As for having rappelling gear in your "bug out bag" why?
Takes up a lot of room,and excess weight.
Current maps and proper route finding is way better.
"On Rope" is by Bruce Smith and Allen Padgett
"Rappelling" by Tom Martin is a good beginning read.
Need these type books check a good friends site out, Mike will have way more reading material then you'll need.
http://www.chesslerbooks.com/eCart/default.asp?idAffiliate=
As for having rappelling gear in your "bug out bag" why?
Takes up a lot of room,and excess weight.
Current maps and proper route finding is way better.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Having the gear won't make the man. But shiny new equipment is always fun to have. When I started climbing I could never afford the shiny new stuff. But finding a half-eaten Pizza in the dumpster at Camp 4 was pure gold.
When it comes to climbing, books won't teach you what you need to know, they will only tell you what you need to learn.
Rapelling is easy: a figure-8, some not too trashed static rope, a 30 second lesson, keep your feet straight and you're there. But Rap to the end of your rope, look down, and when it's thirty feet to the ledge you were aiming at you've got a teaching problem that you don't want to absorb on the first day. Or, fail to stop at then end of the rope and, well...you get the idea.
And bomb-proof anchors feel less so when it's 140 feet of run out to the next one. I've placed some solid RP's, but I've also had #4 rocks pop out. That's when I realized it was a long wait to the next piece of pro. The lesson: protection is only as good as the placement you have for them.
You need a good dynamic rope and a harness. Start there. Maybe also get a belay device or a sticht plate, a figure-8, a few locking D carabiners and few web slings. Stick with that until you get comfortable with exposure. You won't need anything more than that in an urban setting anyway.
When you start leading routes get a basic set of mid-size protection: I still use a set of 80's vintage Rocks, a few mid-size hexes, and three original Wild Country Friends. You will probably find that you can do most routes with very few pieces of protection.
You can buy #1 RP's if you like, and hang them on your harness for the all girls to see, but no one will be impressed if you only carry them around. Some girls will, however, be impressed if it stops your forty foot screamer when you're three pitches up. Unfortunately, there was never an audience there for me when I needed one.
Climb within your abilities. Don't get sucked-in to the equipment race. And don't get in over your head unless you have help nearby.
Having the gear won't make the man. But shiny new equipment is always fun to have. When I started climbing I could never afford the shiny new stuff. But finding a half-eaten Pizza in the dumpster at Camp 4 was pure gold.
When it comes to climbing, books won't teach you what you need to know, they will only tell you what you need to learn.
Rapelling is easy: a figure-8, some not too trashed static rope, a 30 second lesson, keep your feet straight and you're there. But Rap to the end of your rope, look down, and when it's thirty feet to the ledge you were aiming at you've got a teaching problem that you don't want to absorb on the first day. Or, fail to stop at then end of the rope and, well...you get the idea.
And bomb-proof anchors feel less so when it's 140 feet of run out to the next one. I've placed some solid RP's, but I've also had #4 rocks pop out. That's when I realized it was a long wait to the next piece of pro. The lesson: protection is only as good as the placement you have for them.
You need a good dynamic rope and a harness. Start there. Maybe also get a belay device or a sticht plate, a figure-8, a few locking D carabiners and few web slings. Stick with that until you get comfortable with exposure. You won't need anything more than that in an urban setting anyway.
When you start leading routes get a basic set of mid-size protection: I still use a set of 80's vintage Rocks, a few mid-size hexes, and three original Wild Country Friends. You will probably find that you can do most routes with very few pieces of protection.
You can buy #1 RP's if you like, and hang them on your harness for the all girls to see, but no one will be impressed if you only carry them around. Some girls will, however, be impressed if it stops your forty foot screamer when you're three pitches up. Unfortunately, there was never an audience there for me when I needed one.
Climb within your abilities. Don't get sucked-in to the equipment race. And don't get in over your head unless you have help nearby.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
Hell Dude, its a GUN forum. Juss sayin. </div></div>
As far as calls go, we respond to a whole helluva lot more dipshits who got stuck/fell climbing than we do on gunshot wounds...Juss Sayin.
Two REI classes, a bowl of dope, two carabiners and a rope do not a climber make
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
Hell Dude, its a GUN forum. Juss sayin. </div></div>
As far as calls go, we respond to a whole helluva lot more dipshits who got stuck/fell climbing than we do on gunshot wounds...Juss Sayin.
Two REI classes, a bowl of dope, two carabiners and a rope do not a climber make
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Someone has to populate the Darwin Awards this year...
The late biologist J.B.S. Haldane, asked by an interviewer what he might have concluded about the Almighty from his observations of nature, said that God must be very fond of beetles, having made so many of them.
From my observations of people, I think He must similarly be fond of morons.
Someone has to populate the Darwin Awards this year...
The late biologist J.B.S. Haldane, asked by an interviewer what he might have concluded about the Almighty from his observations of nature, said that God must be very fond of beetles, having made so many of them.
From my observations of people, I think He must similarly be fond of morons.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
G's Law: The entire universe is composed of only two substances - magic and bullshit.
H's Dictum: There is no magic.
G's Law: The entire universe is composed of only two substances - magic and bullshit.
H's Dictum: There is no magic.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bucketofguts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to wear my #1 RP to the bar tonight anyway! </div></div>
...you'd be better off to hang some Friends from your belt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bucketofguts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to wear my #1 RP to the bar tonight anyway! </div></div>
...you'd be better off to hang some Friends from your belt
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: packratt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45 308 do you have a pic of the Kleimheist. Not familiar with that one.<span style="color: #006600">Using the same perlon loop as a prussik, wrap the perlon around the rope descending down leaving a small bite at the top. 3-4 wraps then take the left over bite of rope at the bottom end, go up and through the small bite loop at the top, load it on the big bite. It frictions only when the loop has a load, release the load and it will slide. But, it only frictions one way. I find it very hard to tie with one hand in a rescue / self rescue...prussik is very easy to tie with one hand.
Bachman is another that affords a handle. Take a krab and place the spine on the rope, take you perlon loop and clip it onto just the spine of the krab, now wrap the perlon loop around the spine and the rope 3-4-5 times and load it. The krab acts like a mini handle that I prefer for glacier work.
Another cool hitch is the Saxxon hitch. I teach / taught in my lesson plan, its a potential belay for guides, been around since the 1900s but is a lost hitch for knowledge. I use it as a potential belay on snow so it can have some floating, very tuff on the rope with twisting. </span>
Never had a problem breaking prussiks. Hate the damn things I'd rather have my ropewalker system any day. Haven't ever gotten into it but I've seen people racing on rope and they can cover 600' on a rope walker faster than you'd believe.<span style="color: #006600">Climbed with some French climbers / guides and they all used 4mm. They also used 4mm as their tag line. I started using 5mm. Drives the N guru's crazy. My call to glory is or was alpine, not the same beast as cragging, summit bagging, sport, caving or anything else. Try the Kleimheist, it is very easy to use and works superbly. </span>
Discussing climbing/descending/rescue techniques can generate bigger and more arguments than rifle scopes on this site. There are 3 different schools of thought Climbers, NFPA, and Cavers and all think their way is the best.<span style="color: #006600">Never had much of an issue with cavers, not like Alaska has a bunch. Cavers have their systems and cool gear. The NFPA guru's drive me crazy. Not here but on a climbing site, the guy was yelling his way is the only "safe" way. Like I said, no one will ever know it all, too much to learn, to see, to experience, and almost all climbing, caving, rescue techniques come from sailing anyway, over centuries of rope work on boats. </span></div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: packratt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45 308 do you have a pic of the Kleimheist. Not familiar with that one.<span style="color: #006600">Using the same perlon loop as a prussik, wrap the perlon around the rope descending down leaving a small bite at the top. 3-4 wraps then take the left over bite of rope at the bottom end, go up and through the small bite loop at the top, load it on the big bite. It frictions only when the loop has a load, release the load and it will slide. But, it only frictions one way. I find it very hard to tie with one hand in a rescue / self rescue...prussik is very easy to tie with one hand.
Bachman is another that affords a handle. Take a krab and place the spine on the rope, take you perlon loop and clip it onto just the spine of the krab, now wrap the perlon loop around the spine and the rope 3-4-5 times and load it. The krab acts like a mini handle that I prefer for glacier work.
Another cool hitch is the Saxxon hitch. I teach / taught in my lesson plan, its a potential belay for guides, been around since the 1900s but is a lost hitch for knowledge. I use it as a potential belay on snow so it can have some floating, very tuff on the rope with twisting. </span>
Never had a problem breaking prussiks. Hate the damn things I'd rather have my ropewalker system any day. Haven't ever gotten into it but I've seen people racing on rope and they can cover 600' on a rope walker faster than you'd believe.<span style="color: #006600">Climbed with some French climbers / guides and they all used 4mm. They also used 4mm as their tag line. I started using 5mm. Drives the N guru's crazy. My call to glory is or was alpine, not the same beast as cragging, summit bagging, sport, caving or anything else. Try the Kleimheist, it is very easy to use and works superbly. </span>
Discussing climbing/descending/rescue techniques can generate bigger and more arguments than rifle scopes on this site. There are 3 different schools of thought Climbers, NFPA, and Cavers and all think their way is the best.<span style="color: #006600">Never had much of an issue with cavers, not like Alaska has a bunch. Cavers have their systems and cool gear. The NFPA guru's drive me crazy. Not here but on a climbing site, the guy was yelling his way is the only "safe" way. Like I said, no one will ever know it all, too much to learn, to see, to experience, and almost all climbing, caving, rescue techniques come from sailing anyway, over centuries of rope work on boats. </span></div></div>
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as calls go, we respond to a whole helluva lot more dipshits who got stuck/fell climbing than we do on gunshot wounds...Juss Sayin.
Two REI classes, a bowl of dope, two carabiners and a rope do not a climber make
</div></div>
I like the fifth of Jack and a clothes line into the cave w/o lights and helmets. We had to pull this one stupid SOB out about 3 weekends in a row with some variation of that. After the 3rd time one of our members forced him to take our vertical course and he turned into a very good caver/cave rescue type. Still wild as hell above ground but safe under.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as calls go, we respond to a whole helluva lot more dipshits who got stuck/fell climbing than we do on gunshot wounds...Juss Sayin.
Two REI classes, a bowl of dope, two carabiners and a rope do not a climber make
</div></div>
I like the fifth of Jack and a clothes line into the cave w/o lights and helmets. We had to pull this one stupid SOB out about 3 weekends in a row with some variation of that. After the 3rd time one of our members forced him to take our vertical course and he turned into a very good caver/cave rescue type. Still wild as hell above ground but safe under.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Go to treebuzz.com it is a tree climbing/arborist forum, but there are some very helpfull people there. You may have more luck learning to climb trees and alot of the gear is used by both tree climbers and rock climbers. The only down side to trees is you have to climb it before you can rappel back down.
Go to treebuzz.com it is a tree climbing/arborist forum, but there are some very helpfull people there. You may have more luck learning to climb trees and alot of the gear is used by both tree climbers and rock climbers. The only down side to trees is you have to climb it before you can rappel back down.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dusty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The only down side to trees is you have to climb it before you can rappel back down. </div></div>
You have to climb rock, snow and ice to get any rope up to rap back down. I have been asked, "how did you get that rope up there" more times than "why do you climb". Lots of odds looks and facial expressions as they try to cipher just how that rope got up there.
Arbor are like cavers, lots of heavy gear and complicated rope systems.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dusty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The only down side to trees is you have to climb it before you can rappel back down. </div></div>
You have to climb rock, snow and ice to get any rope up to rap back down. I have been asked, "how did you get that rope up there" more times than "why do you climb". Lots of odds looks and facial expressions as they try to cipher just how that rope got up there.
Arbor are like cavers, lots of heavy gear and complicated rope systems.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to climb rock, snow and ice to get any rope up to rap back down. </div></div>
...unless you take the well groomed trail with handrails up to the top rope anchors
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to climb rock, snow and ice to get any rope up to rap back down. </div></div>
...unless you take the well groomed trail with handrails up to the top rope anchors
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
funny how some of these threads are packed with people who were born with fantastic skills and never had to learn shit. you guys impress the shit out of me. as far as the original question, find a guide service and learn how first hand. you'll know what to buy as you learn.
funny how some of these threads are packed with people who were born with fantastic skills and never had to learn shit. you guys impress the shit out of me. as far as the original question, find a guide service and learn how first hand. you'll know what to buy as you learn.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
Ya think??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I think its a good idea to have this kinda gear, but what scares me is those that will read this thread and go buy shit and have NO FUCKING CLUE as to how to use it and they will hurt themselves. </div></div>
Ya think??
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
45.308, Have you tried a french prusik aka valdaton tresse? or a distel hitch? I use both for arbor work and they work well. When ascending a rope in alpine climbing do you tend your slack manually or use a mini pulley for your prusik? Just curious, I have never been around anytype of mountain climbing gear and was just wondering how much of the climbing gear crossed over.
45.308, Have you tried a french prusik aka valdaton tresse? or a distel hitch? I use both for arbor work and they work well. When ascending a rope in alpine climbing do you tend your slack manually or use a mini pulley for your prusik? Just curious, I have never been around anytype of mountain climbing gear and was just wondering how much of the climbing gear crossed over.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
Heard of the French prusik, cant say that I ever saw one in use, do not know how to tie it or use it. I like your original spelling of prusik. Not sure what you mean by ascending rope alpine climbing. Friction hitches are used mostly for glacier travel, rescue and for escaping the belay. Some climbers like big wall and speed freaks ascend the rope with mechanical ascenders once the lead puts the rope up each pitch.
Rope is free fall, no need for a pulley. But for solo roped climbing, now that is where a pulley with an ascender work together in climbing. I know a few Arbors, many of the techniques cross over just like caving but I think the main difference is weight and back up safety systems, alpine climbing takes extreme light weight and speed to be safe, kind of the opposite of your fun.
Mr p8re8, I am a guide, was one for almost 30 years, owned my own private guide service and worked for others to include local university as an outdoor skills / survival instructor. Taught Boy Scouts too. And no I was not born with fantastic skills and learned everything I know over 30 years of climbing in Alaska, did some down in the states and little overseas. I do not know everything but being an actual mountain guide, my goal was/is to teach/share what I know/learned and many times I learned from my charges (what guides call clients). Still learning too even though I retired from guiding in 2006....climbing with a young strong buck, got me in over my head on some manky mixed, I got scared belaying him seeing what I had to climb and clean, the switch flipped and I have not climbed since than day in November 06.
Heard of the French prusik, cant say that I ever saw one in use, do not know how to tie it or use it. I like your original spelling of prusik. Not sure what you mean by ascending rope alpine climbing. Friction hitches are used mostly for glacier travel, rescue and for escaping the belay. Some climbers like big wall and speed freaks ascend the rope with mechanical ascenders once the lead puts the rope up each pitch.
Rope is free fall, no need for a pulley. But for solo roped climbing, now that is where a pulley with an ascender work together in climbing. I know a few Arbors, many of the techniques cross over just like caving but I think the main difference is weight and back up safety systems, alpine climbing takes extreme light weight and speed to be safe, kind of the opposite of your fun.
Mr p8re8, I am a guide, was one for almost 30 years, owned my own private guide service and worked for others to include local university as an outdoor skills / survival instructor. Taught Boy Scouts too. And no I was not born with fantastic skills and learned everything I know over 30 years of climbing in Alaska, did some down in the states and little overseas. I do not know everything but being an actual mountain guide, my goal was/is to teach/share what I know/learned and many times I learned from my charges (what guides call clients). Still learning too even though I retired from guiding in 2006....climbing with a young strong buck, got me in over my head on some manky mixed, I got scared belaying him seeing what I had to climb and clean, the switch flipped and I have not climbed since than day in November 06.
Re: Climbing and rappelling gear
I don't climb for fun much, just for pruning and cutting down trees. Louisiana horticulture law doesn't allow gaffs to be used unless the tree comes completely down. So that leaves roping up a tree. I started using a single rope technique with ascenders for those long climbs then switching to a double rope with prusik for working in the tree. We mainly do alot of fema contracts so they usually have areial safety guys dogging us. We are required to have 2 tie in points when using a chain saw. We must also back up any ascender.
I don't climb for fun much, just for pruning and cutting down trees. Louisiana horticulture law doesn't allow gaffs to be used unless the tree comes completely down. So that leaves roping up a tree. I started using a single rope technique with ascenders for those long climbs then switching to a double rope with prusik for working in the tree. We mainly do alot of fema contracts so they usually have areial safety guys dogging us. We are required to have 2 tie in points when using a chain saw. We must also back up any ascender.
