Clip on for a HNT26

[Jnull]

I know the HNT26 isn’t the ideal chassis for a clip on but it’s what I got. This is an all around shortish light hunting rifle for day or night use that’s why I want to use a clip on and not a dedicated night scope. Night use will probably be a secondary for me to use when I have a friend or my wife with me and I put them on my AR that has a dedicated thermal scope.

Absolute longest shot would probably be around 600 yards but most being 200 or less, specs are a 22 creedmoor 20” proof 8 twist NX8 2.5-20 MIL-XT F1. I have no experience with clip ons but most here seem to hate bell mounted setups and it looks like that’s what I’m limited to. Are there repeatably issues using scope mounted clip ons? I’m probably looking at the pulsar krypton 2 FXG50 or super yoter C. Any other similar options to look at?

I’ll probably pair it with a vortex impact 4000 mounted to the left side of the handguard since my action is a nanook with integrated split rail sections, unless someone can point me to a 1 piece scope mount that’ll bridge the gap between the rail sections and offer a bridge to mount the LRF.

Im open to suggestions on setting up this rifle but I think options are pretty limited due to the HNT26.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

@SkyScrapin or @wigwamitus can probably help you out with suggestions.

 

[wigwamitus]

My personal core team has members with interest in HNT26 and hence we have studied the issue, though haven't done it yet.

It is possible to mount a short rail to the front 12 oclock of the '26 ... but for most scopes (I also use the NX8 2.5-20x) the clipon mounted on a short rail up from on the '26 would leave too large a gap between the rear of the clipon and the front of the day scope, which ideally you want to be as small a gap as possible without ability to touch.
So, what to do ?
The preferred option is to get someone to make you a custom rail that attaches to both the receiver and the front mount point on the '26. I've used Ferrell Manufacturing (FM) in Warsaw, MO for several custom rails and they've done a great job at a low cost ( $200 per custom rail ).
Alternate option is a long scope base that just mounts to the receiver, but those are only available for a few actions (from Precision Reflex). This is an off the shelf solution, but costs more these days than custom from FM though FM might have raised their prices and not sent me the memo !

Objective mounting is possible but not preferred due to possible flexing of the scope.

We are definitely interested if you go down any of these roads before we do. We're still in the chin scratching stage on actions and barrels for a group set of 7PRC builds.

==

As to thermal clipons, I honestly wouldn't get one unless you are going to get a "real" one and they all run over $10k MSRP. These are mil-grade units which not only stand up to all manner of rough physical handling but also are hyper-accurately collimated at the factory and thus have much more tolerance for mis-alignment between clipon and day scope. And don't require any "manual" collimation when mounting to different rifles/scopes. Mount and shoot and be dead on - that is provided your mounting scenario is within the collimation tolerance of the clipon ! Ideally you want "same plane" and "same height above rail". Though a little deviation is possible. I mount same plane (use 0 moa scope bases/rings) and try to get within 0.2 inches of tolerance. That's solidly within the tolerance of all the units I've tried. But even being 0.7" out between day scope and clipon I've done with BAE UTC-x and measured zero POI shift. YMMV.

So if you don't want to wait until you've saved up for a "real" thermal clipon, then I'd suggest a TWS (Thermal Weapons Sight) like a HaloLR-XRF. Its got a great image out beyond a mile in all weather conditions and has a built in range finder good out farther than you are likely to shot at night. We've seen guys getting yotes out to 800+ yds in posted videos here on the hide, with the Halos.
So, with a halo, you'll have to swap out your day scope and the Halo. Use a little light grease on the mounts - that will remove false friction which is the source of most of the POI shift from remounts.
And practice your swaps and measure occasionally - like quarterly - YOU - are part of the repeatability equation also, so you're measuring yourself and your remounting process, when you are measuring your remounting ( by shooting groups and measure POI shift for several remounts vs no clipon).
I know 2 very experienced shooters that do this swap thing, so it is hardly a crazy thing

==

And again, we are super interested in your experience with mounting to a '26 as we will be doing the same shortly !

 

[Travis224]

It's action specific, but I run 2 setups with special rails for this chassis. An extended rail will also get you around the height issues with the clipons as no one really has made the nv attachment lower to have things on the same plane. I've done it but with a lot of work

Here is one of my setups, I have my Nox35 on it since I have more rigs than I do clipons and this is my loaner rifle.

Yes, there is a gap between the barrel and the rail, Zermatt made it with a set screw for support so it can be used on different barrel types.

 

[Jnull]

@wigwamitus @Travis224 as I said in my original post my receiver is a Kelbly Nanook and has integrated split bases so the long one piece receiver base is a no go.

@wigwamitus i have no problem spending good money when it’s worthwhile but I don’t see a 10k+ unit killing more coyotes for me then a 5k unit. I’d love to get a ClipIR-LR but I have no way of mounting it on this rifle, and again it likely won’t get me any additional kills for the ranges we hunt it’s just “better”.

I have a good friend that’s a machinist he’s made me all kinds of nonsense over the years. I’ll have to see if the barrel being a proof full sendero leaves enough room to use the mlok slots. I could maybe get him to make me a bridge that attaches to the two forward mlok slots on each side and sets a rail back behind the top closed portion of the forend.

 

[wigwamitus]

Yeah, Nox35s like travis224 is sportin' are halfish the size of the halo-50s ... and solid out to 400-ish yards with real holding reticles.

As to clipons, if you're not anchored (with screws) on both ends, on the forearm and the receiver with anything long enuff to get the job done, then you will have some oscillation.

If you note travis224 is anchored on receiver, but not forearm BUTT he has a little screw thru the long scope base with a nylon tip "almost" touching the top of the barrel. This removes 99% of the oscillation on the overhanging long scope base and enables the ability to get the clipon as close as you need. His is custom.

So bottom line, if you've got custom part capability, that's the way to go for most actions, for clipons.

 

[Jnull]

Yeah, Nox35s like travis224 is sportin' are halfish the size of the halo-50s ... and solid out to 400-ish yards with real holding reticles.

As to clipons, if you're not anchored (with screws) on both ends, on the forearm and the receiver with anything long enuff to get the job done, then you will have some oscillation.

If you note travis224 is anchored on receiver, but not forearm BUTT he has a little screw thru the long scope base with a nylon tip "almost" touching the top of the barrel. This removes 99% of the oscillation on the overhanging long scope base and enables the ability to get the clipon as close as you need. His is custom.

So bottom line, if you've got custom part capability, that's the way to go for most actions, for clipons.

Are you saying if I get a mount made it needs to be attached to the receiver and forearm? With the forearm being carbon fiber and only held on by 3 tiny screws I doubt it’ll be enough to hold a mount and clip on with zero movement or deflection. I don’t see any way of getting an additional attachment point onto the receiver either unless I get taller rings to open up the front of the integrated pic rail some and have the mount tie into that.

I’ll look over things with my machinist buddy but if I want to utilize this chassis a bell mounted clip on is probably my best bet which has me looking at the krypton 2 fxg50, super yoter C and maybe the Steiner C35 gen 2 once it hits the states?

 

[st1650]

I really wish MDT would update that forend to allow for a full pic rail. It really wouldn’t be that hard to do.

 

[Jnull]

I really wish MDT would update that forend to allow for a full pic rail. It really wouldn’t be that hard to do.

Im sure they don’t want people hanging a ton of weight off the forearm since it’s barely held onto the rest of the chassis with those 3 tiny screws but it would be nice to have a more stout option for things like this.

Any recommendations @MDT_Josh @MDT_OFFICIAL ?

 

[wigwamitus]

look at what Travis224 did, anchored to the receiver and oscillation mitigated by nylon tipped set screw. Thats what I will be doing !

 

[Jnull]

look at what Travis224 did, anchored to the receiver and oscillation mitigated by nylon tipped set screw. Thats what I will be doing !

Yea I can’t do that since my receiver has integrated split bases.

 

[Travis224]

For my mdt Hnt26 chassis, I use my longer rail for clipons...the XLR Magnesium 4.0s I use the nv rail they make and that has me super close to being perfectly aligned when I use a 1.5 scope mount

 

[MDT_OFFICIAL]

I really wish MDT would update that forend to allow for a full pic rail. It really wouldn’t be that hard to do.

We do offer the HNT26 with a full integrated ARCA rail forend. There are also M-LOK slots on the bottom for you to attach an M-LOK ARCA rail

 

[Jnull]

We do offer the HNT26 with a full integrated ARCA rail forend. There are also M-LOK slots on the bottom for you to attach an M-LOK ARCA rail

We’re talking on top for night vision clip ons and such.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I wouldn't mount a clip on thermal on the forend of a HNT26, they are much more susceptible to POI shift from forend flex than NV clip ons and while the HNT26 is pretty solid for being a skinny piece of CF mounted with 3 little torx screws, its still pretty flexy and nowhere near solid enough for mounting a thermal. You might get away with it for 200 yard max shots but no way is it going to be solid enough for 600 yard shots with a thermal. Not happening.

You could run something like the Spuhr NV rail that clips to the side of their mount but I would seriously question that thing with the weight of a clip on, I wouldn't do it. A lighter NV clipon like a 24LR would be a decent option and isn't as effected by the flex. Ideal situation would be a KN253 though and not worry about the forend flex at all.

 

[Jnull]

I wouldn't mount a clip on thermal on the forend of a HNT26, they are much more susceptible to POI shift from forend flex than NV clip ons and while the HNT26 is pretty solid for being a skinny piece of CF mounted with 3 little torx screws, its still pretty flexy and nowhere near solid enough for mounting a thermal. You might get away with it for 200 yard max shots but no way is it going to be solid enough for 600 yard shots with a thermal. Not happening.

You could run something like the Spuhr NV rail that clips to the side of their mount but I would seriously question that thing with the weight of a clip on, I wouldn't do it. A lighter NV clipon like a 24LR would be a decent option and isn't as effected by the flex. Ideal situation would be a KN253 though and not worry about the forend flex at all.

Yea you’re definitely right just not a good idea all around to try and hang a clip on off the rail alone. I wonder if it’s even sturdy enough to mount a LRF on and get accurate ranges at distance.

I’ll check out the stuff you mentioned, thanks.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

As long as it emits a IR laser I’d run it. Even if you get deflection you can see where the laser is hitting and know if the range is going to be accurate or not.

 

[Jnull]

As long as it emits a IR laser I’d run it. Even if you get deflection you can see where the laser is hitting and know if the range is going to be accurate or not.

Good point, man that KN253 is fuckin massive but pretty cool how it mounts, 4+ pounds tho…

 

[redneckbmxer24]

That’s the 203, the 253 is much smaller and lighter. They’re like 2.5lbs or so and not much bigger than your typical clip on. The 203 is like a damn Folgers can.

 

[Travis224]

Here is what I did with the XLR and this is literally about as good as I think one can get without getting too crazy. And no, this won't be possible or advisable with the HNT 26. That's why I shifted to the XLR Magnesium 4.0 (I have 2 HNT 26s) This is rock solid with this configuration.

 

[evilsvt]

I’ve tried most of the commercial clip ons and I just keep going back to a dedicated scope. For what I would have to spend on a prism collimated clip on, I could get 3 rifles rigged up with dedicated scopes. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still going to get a prism collimated clip on down the road for my 338NM.

 

[st1650]

I’ve tried most of the commercial clip ons and I just keep going back to a dedicated scope. For what I would have to spend on a prism collimated clip on, I could get 3 rifles rigged up with dedicated scopes. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still going to get a prism collimated clip on down the road for my 338NM.


View attachment 8313655

That’s what I did.
Iray bolt TH50v2 on a ADM Delta QD mount and I swap it between 3 different rifles and they all have their own zeros and their own BDC reticle.

 

[MDT_OFFICIAL]

We’re talking on top for night vision clip ons and such.

There are M-LOK Slots on the top of the forend for you to attach M-LOK accessories to use an NV optic

 

[Travis224]

There are M-LOK Slots on the top of the forend for you to attach M-LOK accessories to use an NV optic

Yes correct there are. But if you look at my picture at where the attachment point is for me to run a clip-on with a shorter optic versus what your chassis has optioned. You will see what the problem is. I will say it's probably not a common problem because I do run specialized equipment for my hunting purposes. But you can see that it's not apples to apples

 

[Jnull]

There are M-LOK Slots on the top of the forend for you to attach M-LOK accessories to use an NV optic

If you look at the picture of my setup in post #7 you’ll see my scope is a country mile away from the top mlok slots. Also how much weight would be ok to hang that far out? Are you guys using these chassis with a clip on mounted off the top of the forend? I’d love some details if you guys are.

It seems if I want to use this barreled action with a clip on for day/night time use I’d be better off selling the mdt and getting an xlr element that actually has suitable night vision capability.

 

[MDT_Josh]

I really wish MDT would update that forend to allow for a full pic rail. It really wouldn’t be that hard to do.

In theory, you're right but with the finicky nature of carbon fiber, it is easier said than done! The reason that we do not have a "full rail forend" is a.) in our development, shooters requested that they were able to mount their scopes as low as possible to the barrel, which is why we included the forend cutout, and b.) when matching a "full rail" up to the action, which height do you standardizes on? With a factory Remington, you could switch out your rail to a taller scope base, however, clone actions are all over the place for rail height.

That being said, if there is enough request, we could certainly look into a dedicated "full rail" forend for the HNT-26!

Im sure they don’t want people hanging a ton of weight off the forearm since it’s barely held onto the rest of the chassis with those 3 tiny screws but it would be nice to have a more stout option for things like this.

Any recommendations @MDT_Josh @MDT_OFFICIAL ?

It's definitely not ideal on this chassis and not something we had really anticipated during development! @MDT_OFFICIAL is correct that the M-Lok slots on the top of the forend were intended to match a 5" M-Lok rail to a "high Scope Base" on your action, however, you may see forend flex if you were to mount a clip on that weighs more than roughly 2 lbs.

If you look at the picture of my setup in post #7 you’ll see my scope is a country mile away from the top mlok slots. Also how much weight would be ok to hang that far out? Are you guys using these chassis with a clip on mounted off the top of the forend? I’d love some details if you guys are.

It seems if I want to use this barreled action with a clip on for day/night time use I’d be better off selling the mdt and getting an xlr element that actually has suitable night vision capability.

I would suggest contacting the team at DNA Firearms (https://www.dnafirearmsystems.com/product/seventy5-ti-carbon-tactical-bolt-action-rifle/) who we featured in this series (https://mdttac.ca/blog/mdt-mention-turning-predator-into-prey-thermal-coyote-hunt/) as they have the most experience with night hunting and HNT chassis! Sean will be able to provide you with the most hands on feedback in my opinion!

- Josh

 

[Jnull]

In theory, you're right but with the finicky nature of carbon fiber, it is easier said than done! The reason that we do not have a "full rail forend" is a.) in our development, shooters requested that they were able to mount their scopes as low as possible to the barrel, which is why we included the forend cutout, and b.) when matching a "full rail" up to the action, which height do you standardizes on? With a factory Remington, you could switch out your rail to a taller scope base, however, clone actions are all over the place for rail height.

That being said, if there is enough request, we could certainly look into a dedicated "full rail" forend for the HNT-26!

It's definitely not ideal on this chassis and not something we had really anticipated during development! @MDT_OFFICIAL is correct that the M-Lok slots on the top of the forend were intended to match a 5" M-Lok rail to a "high Scope Base" on your action, however, you may see forend flex if you were to mount a clip on that weighs more than roughly 2 lbs.

I would suggest contacting the team at DNA Firearms (https://www.dnafirearmsystems.com/product/seventy5-ti-carbon-tactical-bolt-action-rifle/) who we featured in this series (https://mdttac.ca/blog/mdt-mention-turning-predator-into-prey-thermal-coyote-hunt/) as they have the most experience with night hunting and HNT chassis! Sean will be able to provide you with the most hands on feedback in my opinion!

- Josh

So I clicked one of those links and saw their short action chassis has the 2 additional screws on the sides holding the forend to the chassis block like my long action HNT26 with arca does, I figured it was a long action vs short action deal but it appears to be the arca forends get 2 additional screws and the non arcas don’t, I just took mine apart quick and it has the extra screw holes in the chassis block.

Why not have them all installed with the extra hardware if all it means is drilling out the carbon forends? That seems really stupid especially in this case where we want to run forend mounted clip ons. I didn’t get the arca version on this one since the carbon arca seems kind of gimmicky, I was planning on just mounting an aluminum arca to the bottom. Had I know the arca version was held on with additional hardware I would’ve just gotten it. It’s not like people aren’t putting bipods/tripods on the non arca version so it just makes zero sense?

 

[Tx_Aggie]

So I clicked one of those links and saw their short action chassis has the 2 additional screws on the sides holding the forend to the chassis block like my long action HNT26 with arca does, I figured it was a long action vs short action deal but it appears to be the arca forends get 2 additional screws and the non arcas don’t, I just took mine apart quick and it has the extra screw holes in the chassis block.

Why not have them all installed with the extra hardware if all it means is drilling out the carbon forends? That seems really stupid especially in this case where we want to run forend mounted clip ons. I didn’t get the arca version on this one since the carbon arca seems kind of gimmicky, I was planning on just mounting an aluminum arca to the bottom. Had I know the arca version was held on with additional hardware I would’ve just gotten it. It’s not like people aren’t putting bipods/tripods on the non arca version so it just makes zero sense?

I think the second set of screws may have been discontinued. I’m guessing here, but possibly because they provide little in the way of extra stiffness and it’s easy for folks to accidentally strip them out.

For reference, I have an early (nearly 2 year old now) non-arca short action chassis and it has both sets of screws.

 

[Jnull]

I think the second set of screws may have been discontinued. I’m guessing here, but possibly because they provide little in the way of extra stiffness and it’s easy for folks to accidentally strip them out.

For reference, I have an early (nearly 2 year old now) non-arca short action chassis and it has both sets of screws.

Interesting. 5 had to be better then 3, if they discontinued that they went about it the lazy way leaving the threaded holes in the receiver block.

 

[MDT_Josh]

@Jnull your concerns are valid, however, @Tx_Aggie hit the nail on the head that we have discontinued the "5-hole" forends in favour of the "3-hole" forends for two reasons:

1. The two front screws provided VERY little in terms of strength/rigidity/stiffness/etc.
2. Customers were routinely stripping out/over torqueing the front two screws meaning that we had to replace many expensive chassis for 2x stripped holes

Again, we have learned quite a lot during the development of other chassis in regards to forward mounted clip on optics since the release of the HNT-26 and I believe that we would handle this forend much differently now if we were to redevelop the chassis from scratch!

- Josh

 

[Jnull]

@Jnull your concerns are valid, however, @Tx_Aggie hit the nail on the head that we have discontinued the "5-hole" forends in favour of the "3-hole" forends for two reasons:

1. The two front screws provided VERY little in terms of strength/rigidity/stiffness/etc.
2. Customers were routinely stripping out/over torqueing the front two screws meaning that we had to replace many expensive chassis for 2x stripped holes

Again, we have learned quite a lot during the development of other chassis in regards to forward mounted clip on optics since the release of the HNT-26 and I believe that we would handle this forend much differently now if we were to redevelop the chassis from scratch!

- Josh

Will there be a V2 of the HNT26 that’ll more easily accept clip ons?

 

[MDT_Josh]

Will there be a V2 of the HNT26 that’ll more easily accept clip ons?

There is nothing in the works for a HNT-26 Gen2, however, we are always developing new chassis and solutions for problems that you guys run into! Design feedback like this is imperative to helping us develop better products, so thank you, even if I don't have the best solution for you right now.

- Josh

 

[4O6shootist]

The best easy choice for clip on with chassis use, is the krg bravo and bravo nv bridge. I put together a xlr element with the nv bridge, had to mill down the bridge height and run a low pro Pic rail to get somewhat close to parallel nv mount with scope rail. The AI atx is very good for this purpose, but very heavy as well.

 

[st1650]

The best easy choice for clip on with chassis use, is the krg bravo and bravo nv bridge. I put together a xlr element with the nv bridge, had to mill down the bridge height and run a low pro Pic rail to get somewhat close to parallel nv mount with scope rail. The AI atx is very good for this purpose, but very heavy as well.

Correct. There’s no good lightweight chassis solution for clip on. XLR envy is heavy although can be mitigated with a smokes carbon stock, MPA ultralite doesn’t really work , HNT26 doesn’t really work, XLR element is high, ATX as you said is heavy, so is the Xylo

 

[Travis224]

The absolute most solid I've found has been the XLR Magnesium 4.0 with bridge. If you look close, the alignment is barely off. Nothing I've tested or tried has been this light AND solid. Sorry MDT, I love the chassis, I will keep my 2 HNT 26..but for this application, XLR wins. Fully kitted out, I'm under 12lbs using Ti3, Bartlein carbon barrel 18", chassis, NV bridge, TB Dominus, Leupold 1.5 scope mount and Leupold MK5 2-10 Illuminated with thumb rest and a modified MPA grip.

In comparison, a TL3 with 16" proof barrel, HNT 26 folder, Q Trash Panda, Nox35 using Bobro mount weighs in at 8lb 3 oz.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Yeah the element is going to be the best bet for a light chassis with solid NV bridge. KRG Bravo is probably next but you’re at 4lbs almost by time you add the bridge. ATX is 4lbs for the chassis plus a few more ounces for the rail.

 

[Jnull]

Yeah the element is going to be the best bet for a light chassis with solid NV bridge. KRG Bravo is probably next but you’re at 4lbs almost by time you add the bridge. ATX is 4lbs for the chassis plus a few more ounces for the rail.

Well you pushed me down the simrad rabbit hole and after doing a ton of research and getting a line on a kn253 I think I’m going to give it a try. I’m just trying to figure out a mounting solution to clear my NX8 but I’m confident I can get that worked out, if not I have numerous other scopes that would work without issue. I’ve been using a thermal scope for years coyote hunting so I’m interested to see how I like this in comparison.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’d say there’s a good chance you’ll be able to get it mounted but those stubby objective optics and also ultra long ones can be complicated. I ran them in a couple S&B ultra shorts in Spuhrs but I’m pretty sure those have more real estate than the NX8. Even if you have to change the optic the KN253 is going to be the most viable solution for a HNT26.

 

[Jnull]

I’m hoping with a 4mm spuhr spacer it’ll clear, the 253 I’m looking at has the shorter US style mount I’m not sure if that’ll help or hurt me but worst case scenario my machinist buddy can make a whole new mount for me if needed but I don’t think it’ll come to that.

 

[NudeLobster]

Yes correct there are. But if you look at my picture at where the attachment point is for me to run a clip-on with a shorter optic versus what your chassis has optioned. You will see what the problem is. I will say it's probably not a common problem because I do run specialized equipment for my hunting purposes. But you can see that it's not apples to apples

what about running a sunshade to take up space between the day optic and CNV?

 

[Travis224]

It's not that being the issue, it's the distance between the two since the scope and thermal are on the shorter side