Clue me in on why GDI sucks.

[nikonNUT]

Hey all,
So it is nearly new car time and I have been pondering a new-ish Subie Crosstrek (The 6MT goes away for 2024 and still on the fence about the CVT tho the MPG is impressive and I have a 600 mile a week communte). Anyways, it ticks the boxes. More room inside that a 4runner, AWD, good MPG, timing chain instead of a belt, and not boosted BUT they run GDI and I see ere'body saying GDI sucks. Honest question here... Why does it suck? A little reading suggests that the right oil (something with a low brix number (?) aka less volitiles) and a seperator inline in the PCV system might keep the gunk in the intake to a minimum so what an I missing? TIA.

Edited to add. I am not a trade in every three years guy. I keep my rides until the wheels fall off. Current rig is 12 years old, 380K on the clock, and still gets 32MPG. Why yes, it is a Toyota.

 

[Milf Dots]

Subes aren't bad cars but they place about third behind Toyota and Honda on the average reliability list.

But they're kinda ugly, on average don't get the fuel mileage of the first two, and they're a favorite car brand of the LGB community. Just my humble opinion.

Also, lately I've spoken to two different people who had blown engines on their "bought new" Subes, and they're middle aged folks who do all the maintenance stuff. Neither had more than 90-120K miles on their cars.

 

[Buzzinga]

My old man's 2015 Subaru Forester with the CVT has been a nightmare. He drives like a little old man because that's what he is, and his transmission just died last week at 134,000. The repair bill is $7700.

He started having problems at about 100,000. There was an $850 part ($1300 bill) that went out on the transmission and the AC has been a nightmare.

Having driven Hondas and Toyotas since 1989, this whole experience was radically different.

 

[Buzzinga]

If you can make a 4Runner work, it think it is one of the best all-around vehicles available at a normal middle-class price point. I drove one for nearly two decades, took it everywhere from the sand dunes to the mountains. It saw snow about four straight months in the winter and with studded tires would drive like the snow wasn't there.

Pretty much all Toyotas are great vehicles, but the 4Runner has been perfected.

 

[JMGlasgow]

CVT's are junk. Stay away from them. They are expensive and will fail sooner than a traditional automatic. Subaru engines also aren't anywhere near as reliable as they once were. I've seen so many issues with them since I've been back in automotive service work. They leak oil, head gaskets are still an issue, they burn oil, and they just fail prematurely compared to other manufacturers. Manufacturers have gone away from timing belts because everything is VVT. Direct injection seems reliable, but there is additional service needed to keep the intake valves clean. Some manufacturers even use dual injection, both MPI and GDI on the same engine.

Even new Hondas are finicky when it comes to their engines. Stick with Toyota and even Ford is better than Subaru.

 

[7.62willdo]

Up here in the northwest it’s a well know fact that 99.99999% of all subarus are driven by lesbians…..so…..make of that what you will…….

 

[zeroz]

IMO head gaskets get 100-125k. I'd take a 4 runner any day of the week over a lezbaru. Tacoma preferably but a 4 runner if it was suby or that.

 

[nikonNUT]

Ok, ok... I get it! Don't shoot a 6.5CM and don't read directions but drving a Subie will still get my man card pulled! BTW, I identify as a lesbian soooo. Toyota it is! But not a 4Runner. I have zero use for a rig that big at this point. I'd honesly rather have another Yaris. The 1NZ is one tough little engine! Plus I'm reading the 2.0 Dynamic Force is "problematic". The hunt continues! I'm guess there is another 100K in the Yaris so I'm not in a hurry. BTW, WTF is with all the RAV4s for sale? More garbage?

BTW, took the bossman's 2022 2500HD Denali Duramaxt to Texas for a material run. NICE truck but all I could see was electrical gemlins ready to pounce and talk about gutless. I mean it is a lot ot truck but damn! I figured it would at least pull the hat off my head.

P.S. Looks like the Tacoma (in TRD Pro trim) is getting the i-Force Max next year.

 

[JoshPutman]

CVT's are fucking garbage. Stay away from anything with one in it.

 

[Sirshredalot]

Bought my subaru new...
Ate 02 sensors at 68k
Leaky radiator at 89k
Cats clogged at 90k
Timing set/water pump at 102k
4 quick struts at 108k
Clutch grenade at 110k
Head gaskets and valve guides at 124k... ate the valves and shit them out the exhaust.
Ball joints and control are bushing nightmare at 125k
Rear suspension worn out and rattles at 125k
Fuel sending unit shit the bed at 135k
3 wheel bearing and 1 cv axle.
Eats 2qts of oil between oil changes....since 30k

Currently at 146k mi.

Got 28 mpg when new...now averages 22mpg....single owner, i do all my own work.

Great for what it does and fun to drive.... but my toyota walks all over it...140k and not a single hiccup.

No more subarus for me..plus theyre dropping the 6mt...fuck'em.

Toyota only...no other choice.

Shred

 

[Redmanss]

The wife has an ‘18 Crosstrek, 135k on it, CVT with the little 2.0 engine, every bell and whistle, bought new straight off the truck. I replaced one rear hub at 90k or so, all else is just oil changes by me past warranty period every 6k, couple recalls done at the dealership. The little fucker just runs, same fuel mileage as new, but I do need to do plugs and trans fluid this spring. We only use top tier gas, Mobil 1 oil full synthetic, OEM filters. I did also change out the battery, -20*F was kicking its ass.

It’s not fast, but it’s fast enough. It’s not powerful, but powerful enough. It’s a Wyoming commuter car that gets her to work and home every blizzard. It’s cramped in the back, just as bad up front for me, is full to the brim on monthly city grocery runs, but it runs well and I’d fully say worth what we paid.

What it won’t do is everything a Subaru commercial says it will. The thing drags the ground off road with minor ruts, is gutless up steep hills with no 4L, limited on OEM size tire offerings to handle rocks, and aftermarket parts are difficult to nonexistent to find with OEM at times being just as hard.

Would we buy another? Yes, to do the same duty as a fuel efficient all weather commuter car on the prairie, but no more long road trips or mountain playing. A Lexus GX and probably a Taco is in our future for that, respectively.

 

[Int1968]

Engines that also employ port injection and gdi still don’t keep the intake valves clean (think of an emissions diesel and what the intake looks like).

Needless tech, that’s a reliability and maintenance problem.

 

[atomic41]

Toyota over a Subaru any day, especially a 4Runner. I had a WRX with way too many issues to type out, I lost a lot of money on that thing. Fun as hell to drive but that engine was a disaster. All of my Toyotas have been flawless. An old Taco ran over 300K before I sold it, current FJ is at 215k and still running down the hwy or wheeling trails and I have abused the hell out of that thing. (lots of hard wheeling, really ran it hard) Toyotas are just built to do what you need them to do.

 

[kenny1773]

Subes aren't bad cars but they place about third behind Toyota and Honda on the average reliability list.

But they're kinda ugly, on average don't get the fuel mileage of the first two, and they're a favorite car brand of the LGB community. Just my humble opinion.

Also, lately I've spoken to two different people who had blown engines on their "bought new" Subes, and they're middle aged folks who do all the maintenance stuff. Neither had more than 90-120K miles on their cars.

Holy crap, I was about to make a very similar post

The one that really got me was I had a co-worker that did car maintenance as a hobby. I mean to an extreme, oil was always changed 500 miles early, always used synthetic, did more maintenance than required. His engine blew at 110k. He went and bought an accord once he found out for certain the engine was toast. His accord has over 150k on it now, still running strong.

Cars are all a crap shoot, but when you keep hearing the same story over and over, there is something to it.

 

[The D]

If you have that much of a commute, I second the Yaris. Or how about a deleted tdi?

My next commuter car purchase will be an 05 or 06 Merc cdi but those are getting a tad long in the tooth and can be expensive if you don’t do as much of your own work as possible

 

[Bacarrat]

If you can make a 4Runner work, it think it is one of the best all-around vehicles available at a normal middle-class price point. I drove one for nearly two centuries, took it everywhere from the sand dunes to the mountains. It saw snow about four straight months in the winter and with studded tires would drive like the snow wasn't there.

Pretty much all Toyotas are great vehicles, but the 4Runner has been perfected.

Couple of bad things about the 4Runner is that it's dirt slow. Been to the West plenty of times with my friend and it just feels really underpowered. Second thing is that it has horrible gas mileage. I don't know how people can get 18-20MPG with one, but when I drive it's more then 12-13MPG at best. But I guess if you are cruising at 80-85MPH in a lifted and fully decked out with all the overlanding bits, you are hauling around a lot of additional weight. The 5th gen 4Runner really needs the V8s from the GX.

 

[nikonNUT]

Engines that also employ port injection and gdi still don’t keep the intake valves clean (think of an emissions diesel and what the intake looks like).

Needless tech, that’s a reliability and maintenance problem.

That is exactly what I was after. GDI bad! Guess I'm looking for a 4Runner and maybe another Yaris for the work commute.

 

[BurtG]

drove one for nearly two centuries, t

 

[lash]

Up here in the northwest it’s a well know fact that 99.99999% of all subarus are driven by lesbians…..so…..make of that what you will…….

My BIL drives one. That explains a lot…

 

[nikonNUT]

If you have that much of a commute, I second the Yaris. Or how about a deleted tdi?

My next commuter car purchase will be an 05 or 06 Merc cdi but those are getting a tad long in the tooth and can be expensive if you don’t do as much of your own work as possible

Think I've said it before but my current Yaris has 380K on the clock. Runs great, I can fit all my match gear in it, and it STILL gets 31 MPG. Uses a quart of oil every 500 miles (BTW Toyota says a quart every 600 miles is acceptable ) so it lives on!

 

[Carlos Danger]

Every Subaru owner I've ever met has been a total fucking douchebag.

 

[Bacarrat]

Every Subaru owner I've ever met has been a total fucking douchebag.

Or a lesbian/beta male.

 

[Redmanss]

If you think a vehicle is part of your identity, good or bad, YOU are the beta.

 

[co_nucleus]

Had done OK with a 2016 CR-V Earth Dreams until about 45k miles. It is GDI and all of a sudden started putting fuel in the oil. Gas mileage went from 24 town, 34 highway down to 12 town and 20 highway. Oil was black and smelled of gas at 400 miles. Multiple trips to the dealer, they found nothing wrong. Everything tested in spec per a Master Honda Tech. He said, 'Change the oil more often, put in Top Tier gas, then add injector cleaner often." That kinda blew any benefit of getting better gas mileage that went down. Sold it the next day.

Haven't owned a Sub, probably won't ever want one. Agree about the people driving them. Looking toward Toyota now, hoping their GDI has had improvements on keeping the valves cleaner.

 

[chevy_man]

If you can make a 4Runner work, it think it is one of the best all-around vehicles available at a normal middle-class price point. I drove one for nearly two centuries, took it everywhere from the sand dunes to the mountains. It saw snow about four straight months in the winter and with studded tires would drive like the snow wasn't there.

Pretty much all Toyotas are great vehicles, but the 4Runner has been perfected.

If you fit in and can see out of it.

I never thought I was a giant until we rented a "luxury SUV" and got stuck in a 4runner.

I'm still wondering how they took something roughly the same size as my Yukon and made it feel that cramped inside. And they could have whittled down the A pillars so you could actually see past them. (I guess nothing is like driving my 90s junk with pencil thin A pillars, but Toyota made them giant).

All my rigs get studded snow tires. They make every vehicle handle in the snow, Toyotas aren't special there.

I just remember spending the whole week wondering why people think they're amazing. They couldn't even make the v8 fast.

The next time we got a suburban, and it got better fuel mileage, I actually fit, and was way quieter on the interstate.


You'd probably be better off with a 2.7 f150 on fuel mileage and repair prices. (I do happen to live where not everything is instantly stolen out of the truck box though).

 

[chevy_man]

If you think a vehicle is part of your identity, good or bad, YOU are the beta.

Damnit!

Let me enjoy shitbox life thinking I'm cool driving junk!

 

[Bender]

Imagine thinking a car is a personality.

Subaru yes,

CVT, not only no but FUCK NO!

Manual or nothing.

By the way, two year old BMW’s are a hella deal. I have 140k on my x5, better than a subie in fit and finish. 23mpg with a heavy foot. TURBO! And only oil changes and a new water pump this week. Next car will be BMW.

 

[BCP]

Hey all,
So it is nearly new car time and I have been pondering a new-ish Subie Crosstrek (The 6MT goes away for 2024 and still on the fence about the CVT tho the MPG is impressive and I have a 600 mile a week communte). Anyways, it ticks the boxes. More room inside that a 4runner, AWD, good MPG, timing chain instead of a belt, and not boosted BUT they run GDI and I see ere'body saying GDI sucks. Honest question here... Why does it suck? A little reading suggests that the right oil (something with a low brix number (?) aka less volitiles) and a seperator inline in the PCV system might keep the gunk in the intake to a minimum so what an I missing? TIA.

Edited to add. I am not a trade in every three years guy. I keep my rides until the wheels fall off. Current rig is 12 years old, 380K on the clock, and still gets 32MPG. Why yes, it is a Toyota.

Crosstrek is good but underpowered. A friend of mine has one with a ton of miles on it that he uses for his gold prospecting. Lift kit offroad tires he drives it all through nevada and arizona.

From everything I've seen at work between chevys, fords, dodges, toyotas, it's luck of the draw no matter what you buy. Any new car today I would get 100k mile warranty just because of how expensive everything is.

 

[BCP]

Every Subaru owner I've ever met has been a total fucking douchebag.

Around here it's the lifted diesel crowd. Usually some flatbiller white guy with dumb tattoos blasting rap music.

 

[nikonNUT]

Imagine thinking a car is a personality.

Subaru yes,

CVT, not only no but FUCK NO!

Manual or nothing.

By the way, two year old BMW’s are a hella deal. I have 140k on my x5, better than a subie in fit and finish. 23mpg with a heavy foot. TURBO! And only oil changes and a new water pump this week. Next car will be BMW.

@Bender Seems like everything I look at that fits the bill is a freaking CVT! Toyota, Honda, Subrau. Fucking ALL of them! I'm really wanting a longroof (wagon) which is why the crosstrek caught my eye. My GF drives 4 Runner but I am underwhelmed by it. Had a BMW and it was awesome (5-speed manual 525i) until the "troubles" started. This whole thing makes me want to try and source an early 80s Merc 300TD wagon but they have devolped a cult following.

 

[Bacarrat]

If you fit in and can see out of it.

I never thought I was a giant until we rented a "luxury SUV" and got stuck in a 4runner.

I'm still wondering how they took something roughly the same size as my Yukon and made it feel that cramped inside. And they could have whittled down the A pillars so you could actually see past them. (I guess nothing is like driving my 90s junk with pencil thin A pillars, but Toyota made them giant).

All my rigs get studded snow tires. They make every vehicle handle in the snow, Toyotas aren't special there.

I just remember spending the whole week wondering why people think they're amazing. They couldn't even make the v8 fast.

The next time we got a suburban, and it got better fuel mileage, I actually fit, and was way quieter on the interstate.


You'd probably be better off with a 2.7 f150 on fuel mileage and repair prices. (I do happen to live where not everything is instantly stolen out of the truck box though).

Toyota is good for one thing, and it's a big one. Reliability.

I find they are a bit dated in the options they offer in their vehicles. Remote start? CarPlay, Android Auto? WTF is that? You can now get them in their vehicles, but not standard. The current gen 4runner has been out since 2010! The previous Tundra before the 22 restyle was introduced in 2007. I like Toyota, but if you are looking for anything new and cool, Toyota isn't the car company to buy from.

 

[Bender]

@Bender Seems like everything I look at that fits the bill is a freaking CVT! Toyota, Honda, Subrau. Fucking ALL of them! I'm really wanting a longroof (wagon) which is why the crosstrek caught my eye. My GF drives 4 Runner but I am underwhelmed by it. Had a BMW and it was awesome (5-speed manual 525i) until the "troubles" started. This whole thing makes me want to try and source an early 80s Merc 300TD wagon but they have devolped a cult following.

Try a 2012-2015 x5. It’s a big Subaru with awesome 4wd. Probably find a near new condition one with 30k miles under $30k. 8 speed built proof auto. Same one in the 700hp challenger hellcat. Low pressure turbo on a straight six? Near perfect car. Just don’t buy new unless you have the cash.

 

[Dingodog]

My last Subaru was a 2016 2.5l outback. Had nearly 200k on it Before I bought my new acsent. Great cars. Took to Outback off roaring many a time and drove in the snow quite a bit. Great cars. Abused the shit out of and was super reliable. No engine or CVT issues. As a matter of practice I dump cars a 200k so every 5-6 years for me. Really like the Subaru product. And no I don’t drink bug light.

 

[vh20]

BTW, took the bossman's 2022 2500HD Denali Duramaxt to Texas for a material run. NICE truck but all I could see was electrical gemlins ready to pounce and talk about gutless. I mean it is a lot ot truck but damn! I figured it would at least pull the hat off my head.

OT, but since you are the OP I guess it's not derailing to ask. I'm curious about this observation. The specs on that engine are 445 hp and 910 ft lbs. torque. While I used to drive Chevys from 1982 to 2016 (79 to 05 year models) with no complaints, I switched to a Ford 6.7 diesel in 2017 (450 hp and 935 ft lbs) and again in 2022 (475 hp and 1050 ft. lbs). While both of those are a little more than the 2022 Duramax, they aren't a LOT more. I found both of the Fords to have incredible power and would/will pull a 22,000+ lb heavy-loaded tandem-dual gooseneck with plenty of authority. Unloaded, they will accelerate and pass slower traffic effortlessly, about as fast as you can think about it. The 2022 will actually start to get a little squirrely if you stomp it and maneuver too aggressively to pull out and pass when the turbo kicks in (can feel the back end wanting to come around). Regardless of any Chevy/Ford arguments (reliability/maintenance/personal preference/brand-bias, etc), I would think that the Duramax would be anything but gutless with those respectable power/torque specs. I'm not brand-biased, and would switch back to a GM if it offered the most of what I was looking for when the time comes. Anyone else have this observation?

 

[Numedal]

Try a 2012-2015 x5. It’s a big Subaru with awesome 4wd. Probably find a near new condition one with 30k miles under $30k. 8 speed built proof auto. Same one in the 700hp challenger hellcat. Low pressure turbo on a straight six? Near perfect car. Just don’t buy new unless you have the cash.

And don't get one with a sun/panorama roof, they tend to fill some of the modules in the floor/back with water.

 

[Int1968]

I’ve had good luck with a 2014 civic dx stick, so no ac, no power locks, no fob. 300,000 miles still going and that’s in the rust belt.

Great commuter car and if I could buy a new one I would, not sure if Americans got the stripped down dx models. Honda’s sorta gone all turbo engines now, shame

 

[OkieMike]

I only have one question about Subarus...

Do you tell them which virtue-signaling stickers you want?

"I need a Coexist, a 13.2, a Save the Whales..."

Or is there a big Lista cabinet with drawer after drawer full of self-important activism stickers you get to pick yourself?

Mike

 

[cas6969]

A shame what happened with Subaru, they were great cars up to a certain time, ran forever. Then they just became average. I guess corporate wised up, they just did it a lot later than the other Japanese automakers.

 

[Rookie]

Surbs are not Japanese

 

[lash]

Surbs are not Japanese

Where do you think they are made?

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Ok, ok... I get it! Don't shoot a 6.5CM and don't read directions but drving a Subie will still get my man card pulled!

Shit, I own and shoot two CM’s and gave up on doing things without reading the directions first, so, am I supposed to go to the local dress shop and check it out?

Our latest GMC runs great but I do fear all the electrical / electronics. Give me a 67 350/4speed Corvette or a 66 Tripower/4 speed GTO and I am ready to go

 

[lash]

Sadly, the days of simple vehicles without electronics are long gone.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

You guy realize Subaru and Toyota work together,. Toyota owns a portion of Subarus and they use a lot of the same parts and assembly lines on some models. BTW fuck a boxer engine, and direct injection+EGR valves= carbon build up on the Valves and intake.

 

[BCP]

Most vehicles today use GDI, even the ones that you think don't have it will use a functionally similar system.

And yes Toyota and Subaru have a working relationship and share components/facilities.

Sadly the Toyota I really want to buy isn't available in the US for marketing and emissions reasons:

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I had a 2008 Subaru Legacy. By 127,000 miles, both head gaskets needed replacing, and the transmission was dead and needed rebuilding.

 

[Jgunner]

Get a toyota. Nothing compares to their reliability. They are not perfect, but if you are buying a vehicle for bells and whistles, then younare not buying a car for the right reasons.

The new corolla gr is interesting, but the mileage is dissapointing. Sounds fun to drive though!

 

[BCP]

Sadly, the days of simple vehicles without electronics are long gone.

Cars were much bigger pieces of shit "back in the day" it's just that they were so cheap it didn't matter. Nowadays they're expensive so people expect them to last 200k miles.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

You know, if you are dead set on older is better.

You don’t have to buy new. Go buy an older car and rebuild it.

But there is no way in hell you are getting a carb/mechanically injected diesel to get the combination of fuel mileage and power of modern engines with digital fuel control, VVT across a range of different atmospheric conditions. It is impossible.

Does your dope at sea level in 90 degree heat with 100% humidity align with your dope at 6,000ft in sub zero temps? Neither does the fuel curve required for optimal operation.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

You know, if you are dead set on older is better.

You don’t have to buy new. Go buy an older car and rebuild it.

But there is no way in hell you are getting a carb/mechanically injected diesel to get the combination of fuel mileage and power of modern engines with digital fuel control, VVT across a range of different atmospheric conditions. It is impossible.

Does your dope at sea level in 90 degree heat with 100% humidity align with your dope at 6,000ft in sub zero temps? Neither does the fuel curve required for optimal operation.

Everything you say is true. But, unlike my newer GMC, when something goes wrong, I could break out the wrenches and dig in (with a fair chance of getting home on something less than hooked to the end of a a tow truck)

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Everything you say is true. But, unlike my newer GMC, when something goes wrong, I could break out the wrenches and dig in (with a fair chance of getting home on something less than hooked to the end of a a tow truck)

I hear you, they are more complicated systems, a lot more links in the chain. But they are not impossible, just require an different knowledge base. IF you are a DIY'r a simple $50 OBDII scanner can tell you a lot.