CMP sold Unertl and USO MST-100 scopes

[capthook]

I've been working on a complete list of all CMP Unertl and USO MST-100 scopes sold.

Totals are as follows:

614 total scopes
62 conversions to .50 Cal (Orange)
93 .50 Cal Scopes 5XXX serial numbers (Yellow)
2 USO scopes

I also have (2) issued scopes that I've pulled from pictures posted here. There are (2) other scope that I've listed (Not sure if they were issued or not) (Green)

I will be updating the spreadsheet to possibly include Sold Date, USO Mod and maybe a picture or thumbnail. (This will be a work in Progress)

All of this information is available on the CMP websight using the advanced search function. My fear is that the CMP will remove this info at some point and it will be lost.

Thought it would be nice to have a way of tracking these scopes. (Specifically USMC issued Unertl and USO MST-100 scopes)

If anyone has any additional info to add (Scopes known to exist, scopes known to have been destroyed, etc) we can post it here and I can update the master list.

If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions let me know. I have an excel file that I can't post but can email if you would like a copy.

Thanks.

 

[capthook]

Some updates.
All CMP Users have been added. Some sell date, USO Mod and pictures have been updated. You can't really zoom in on the pdf to view the pics but they are clear in the original excel file. I probably won't drop another copy of this until I have all the sell dates and Pictures added. Please let me know if you have any info contrary to what I have here. Thanks.

 

[ODCMP]

Great work, thanks!

 

[capthook]

No sweat. I did find some errors. I hope to fix them and have everything updated by Thursday. Any input is appreciated.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

s/n 1480 went for $7801 about double what your list has for price. One of life's mysteries. 2 off from mine.

 

[capthook]

Thanks Lonegunman. I had the first auction listed. I have updated it to reflect your notes. That was a really nice scope, almost perfect new condition.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Idk if you are looking for more info but I have 1435. I'm not the original purchaser.

Came with the A3 badger mounts and no USO mod.

 

[capthook]

I have it on the spreadsheet but haven't gotten to it yet. I'll use this pic if the cmp pictures aren't available. Appreciate the help. Thanks

 

[Threadcutter308]

Tagging in

@buffalowinter

@sirhrmechanic

@Schütze

If they’re interested.

Perhaps they can tag in others that might also be interested that I don’t know about.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Tagging in

@buffalowinter

@sirhrmechanic

@Schütze

If they’re interested.

Perhaps they can tag in others that might also be interested that I don’t know about.

Was here the moment it popped up!!! Awesome info!

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

@Skunk As well!

 

[Skunk]

I want that scope @FUNCTIONAL has.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

@Skunk got some sentimental value to you?

 

[Skunk]

@Skunk got some sentimental value to you?

Nah, just looks awesome and my eye-disease tells me I need them all.

 

[Stevo86]

I have 1092 and 1815 both purchased from CMP

1092 had to go to ironsight and get a new reticle installed and be freshened up, glass still has some scratches, but it’s ok.

1815 was perfect. Came with rings

skunk fingerbanged 1092 and tainted it tho….

 

[Skunk]

I put that glorious stank on it!

 

[Rookie]

That is some excellent work Hook. Would be cool to sort by date and see price tends.

 

[capthook]

That is some excellent work Hook. Would be cool to sort by date and see price tends.

Thanks. Working on it. Should have something today...maybe monday.

 

[capthook]

I've finished most of the spreadsheet but have asked for a review prior to posting.

Some quick stats to the best of my knowledge:

613 total CMP scopes sold (611 Unertl and 2 USO)

63 scopes converted to .50 Cal scopes

92 .50 cal scopes 5XXX serial number range

2 USO scopes

I've listed any info that was on the exterior of the scope. Several had what appeared to be serial numbers for the service rifles taped to them. A couple of them had "WACO" on tape attached to the scopes. (Anybody have any idea of what that is about?) I have tried to list scopes that are known to exist outside of the cmp. Scopes identified in publicly posted photos, other scopes that were sold on other auction sights (Ebay, RIA or other raffles)

I'll post once this is reviewed. Everyone's input is greatly appreciated, just Im me if you'd like a copy of the excel file.

Thanks.

 

[capthook]

I have a couple of questions regarding how many of these scopes were produced. From what I've read the Unertl Mst-100s started at serial #1001 with the first 5 scopes being the prototype scopes. After these 25 were produced with the football windage knob, think most of these were converted when the standard knobbed scopes were being issued. The last CMP unertl sold was serial #1913. Does anyone know how many scopes were built after #1913? Or the final serial # issued? This would give us a rough total of how many Unertls were issued. Any thoughts or input?

Second question is in regards to how many Mst-150's were built. As I understand it there were around 100 scopes issued to the USMC. Cmp Unertl MST-150s start at 5001 and run through 5150. A total of 92 of these scopes have been sold through CMP. Do we have any idea of what the last scope serial # is?

I appreciate any corrections to the info listed above and any additional insight regarding these scopes...

 

[RemCustom6]

Aren’t there Canadian Unertl as well. Maybe off topic to the USMC scopes but I have seen 2 with the Canadian maple leaf on them as well. I can get pics of 1 tomorrow. Both of my bosses have 1 each.

 

[kft101]

Aren’t there Canadian Unertl as well. Maybe off topic to the USMC scopes but I have seen 2 with the Canadian maple leaf on them as well. I can get pics of 1 tomorrow. Both of my bosses have 1 each.

Yup. And scopes were made for the FBI too, I believe. Those were marked “10X Sniper”.

 

[capthook]

I'm currently trying to stay focused on USMC issued scopes, Unertl and the handful of USO scopes. We can always expand the list to include the FBI scopes (2xxx serial range I think) and the Canadian scopes, maybe even the T series scopes and non issued USO scopes. I'd be curious to see how many total scopes actually exist. USO had at least 3 runs of 100, think the T series Unertl were rarer than that.

 

[ODCMP]

I have a couple of questions regarding how many of these scopes were produced. From what I've read the Unertl Mst-100s started at serial #1001 with the first 5 scopes being the prototype scopes. After these 25 were produced with the football windage knob, think most of these were converted when the standard knobbed scopes were being issued. The last CMP unertl sold was serial #1913. Does anyone know how many scopes were built after #1913? Or the final serial # issued? This would give us a rough total of how many Unertls were issued. Any thoughts or input?

Second question is in regards to how many Mst-150's were built. As I understand it there were around 100 scopes issued to the USMC. Cmp Unertl MST-150s start at 5001 and run through 5150. A total of 92 of these scopes have been sold through CMP. Do we have any idea of what the last scope serial # is?

I appreciate any corrections to the info listed above and any additional insight regarding these scopes...

Your observations on the serial ranges are the same as mine. I haven't seen or heard of any serial numbers higher than 1913 in the .30 Cal. scopes and 5150 in those originally made as .50 Cal. scopes.

 

[lockedandloaded]

Chandler, Death From Afar {Vol. 1, pgs. 128~130} lists every Unertl 10X and the date of purchase. I think he also lists the Barrett 50 scopes in a later edition

 

[B_Colt]

That’s some solid work you’ve done, mate! Really appreciate the effort you’re putting into this. Thanks again for doing this

 

[capthook]

Chandler, Death From Afar {Vol. 1, pgs. 128~130} lists every Unertl 10X and the date of purchase. I think he also lists the Barrett 50 scopes in a later edition

Well Damn. That's the first time I've heard that. I'll have to dig my copy out and check it. If anybody has easy access to their copy, can they post that info here? Thanks.

 

[ODCMP]

Chandler, Death from Afar, Volume 1 list the serial numbers and dates of purchase for scopes from 1006 up through 1651. It also lists 1652 through 1673 as "test scopes". In the higher serial numbers shown, the dates of purchase bounce around between 1983 and 1988.

Based on the higher serial numbers observed in the CMP scopes, there were apparently purchases and deliveries made subsequent to the list in Vol. 1.

 

[Random Guy]

Based on the higher serial numbers observed in the CMP scopes, there were apparently purchases and deliveries made subsequent to the list in Vol. 1.

Yes, DFA covers the delivery’s for the first batch circa 1980 until August 1988 (ending w/ serial number 1673). However, in 1992 the USMC ordered 100 new M700 receivers from Remington (C-prefix) and my guess is they possibly ordered more Unertl scopes as well (these would have serial number above the upper 16XXs). Unfortunately records have not shown up regarding orders in the 1990s, but it seems that about 200 plus Unertl scopes for the M40A1s were ordered at some point after 1988.

 

[capthook]

Good info guys. Thanks for the input.

Does anyone know if there were any CMP Unertls sold prior to 4/26/2014? That is the first sell date for the scopes that I have been researching.

Also, does anyone see a problem with listing the possible or actual serial #'s of the rifles that these scopes were issued to.

I have several scopes that have what appears to be the rifles serial number listed on a piece of tape. I also have pictures of scopes that are on actual USMC rifles, Is this information something I can post or do I need to leave that info off. This is public available info from photos pulled from this sight and the internet. Any thoughts?

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

not sure what harm it could do but I'm no expert in that field.

I would, publicly or privately, love to see any pictures of the scope I have on a rifle if you have them. I think many others would as well.

 

[capthook]

not sure what harm it could do but I'm no expert in that field.

I would, publicly or privately, love to see any pictures of the scope I have on a rifle if you have them. I think many others would as well.

Unfortunately most of the pics I have were pulled directly from CMP. I do have other photos of what I assume to be service rifles with some of the scopes I was missing from the CMP list. The spreadsheet will differentiate CMP scopes from the non CMP scopes. I'm just not sure if the Gov wants the serial #s of actual rifles available to the general public. There is also the possibility that some of these rifles could exist as A6 rifles currently in use. So, if an expert could chime in, it would be appreciated. Otherwise I can hide this info...or delete it

 

[kft101]

Serial numbers and dates of sale pulled from Death From Afar Volume 1, pages 128, 129, and 130. I’ll let someone else scan the data in to a more digitally accessible structure format, lol.

 

[lockedandloaded]

I called Unertl back in the late 1980's, in Mars, PA. His wife answered the phone. When I asked if they sold their scopes to the public, she got real nasty towards me and said no and to not call again

 

[capthook]

Serial numbers and dates of sale pulled from Death From Afar Volume 1, pages 128, 129, and 130. I’ll let someone else scan the data in to a more digitally accessible structure format, lol.

View attachment 8410080View attachment 8410081View attachment 8410082

Damn. Good info and thanks. So it appears that the USMC ordered at least 240 additional scopes which would cover #s 1674 trough 1913...if they are, in fact sequential. Be awesome to confirm 1913 was the last Unertl issued...that would mean 913 Unertl 10x sniper scopes were issued to the Marine Corps...

 

[capthook]

Ok,
Here is the CMP Unertl/ USO list to the best of my knowledge. Please let me know if I have any errors so I can fix my data.

613- total CMP Scopes
63-converted to .50 cal (Orange)
92-.50 cal 5XXX (Yellow)
2-CMP USO's

393-Do not have the USO Mod (Interesting b/c the USO Modded scopes are actually rarer than without the mod)
217-Do have the USO Mod
11-were not visible to verify.

Once again. I appreciate the help and enthusiasm with this endeavor. If you have any updates or would like a copy of this in Excel let me know.

Thanks and enjoy

 

[capthook]

Aren’t there Canadian Unertl as well. Maybe off topic to the USMC scopes but I have seen 2 with the Canadian maple leaf on them as well. I can get pics of 1 tomorrow. Both of my bosses have 1 each.

Yes, a pic would be awesome...

 

[RemCustom6]

I’ll get them on Monday. Wasn’t sure I should post any here.

 

[cplnorton]

I could have bought Unertl Scope 1913 a couple weeks back but passed because it had the USO modification and I built an early M40A1.

Seeing this post makes me sort of wish I bought it. lol

 

[capthook]

Lol...it still hasn't been confirmed...

 

[HarryBC]

Capthook: scope 1603 was sold by CMP paired with one of their MK13 creations..... may want to add that one to the list. Your list is an outstanding work. Thanks much for providing this resource.

 

[capthook]

Awesome. Thank you and I'll get it added

 

[ODCMP]

I worked with the numbers some to see whether there were any significant gaps in the serial numbers that would indicate missing data. I developed a scatter chart and a column chart using @capthook spreadsheet.

They didn't show any significant gaps. Going through the 1xxx numbers, I found two steps of 7 (6 missing serial numbers) and three steps of 6 (5 missing serial numbers). In the 5xxx series, I found three steps of 5 serial numbers (4 missing serial numbers). There are many runs of sequential numbers offsetting these gaps.

For a sampling like this, that indicates very complete data. It seems unlikely that the serial numbers extended more than a few serial numbers above either the 1913 or 5150 numbers.

 

[capthook]

Awesome work. Thanks

 

[capthook]

Serial #1603 has been added as well as comments for some of the Items. Green Items are scopes that are outside of CMP Sales.

 

[Rookie]

Some may not have come back salvageable enough to sell.

 

[capthook]

Would they have a list of destroyed scopes? or a list of scopes received as parts/ unserviceable? I'd love to get my hands on some of these "parts"

 

[HarryBC]

Regarding some "missing serial numbers" I recall several years ago(5-8?) that USO sold several scopes commercially with originally delivered Unertl Serial numbers with a description to the effect that during their rebuilding program several battle damaged scopes were not repairable so they were replaced with new production USO MST100s....techonology advanced over the years and USO was now able to repair the scopes.... The fact that several USO new manufactured scopes were sold by CMP seemed to validate the story. Also CMP sold several of the 10x which were inoperative with internal issues.....buyers had them fixed. I also recall that Toki reversed the 50 bmg internal modifications... if i am remembering correctly.

 

[capthook]

This will probably be my last update for a while. Work is starting to pickup again. I will, however update this as I receive input from you guys.
I have updated the comments column to include more info as well.

The total counts are as follows:
614-CMP Sold Scopes (+1 scope for the MK13 sale with a scope 1603)
63-converted to .50 cal
92-.50 cal scopes 5XXX Serial#

Total # of Issued, Privately owned or Possible CMP scopes are highlighted Green. The total is now 14.

So the spreadsheet accounts for a total of 628 total scopes.

For the 1001 to 1913 serial number range we have 522 of the 913 scopes accounted for. This is assuming a total of 913 scopes.

For the 5001 to 5150 serial number range we have 92 of the 150 scopes accounted for. This is assuming a total of 150 scopes.

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

 

[MikeMiller]

I was lucky enough to get to TxE some of the US Optics modified Unertl scopes back when they had the USMC contract. USO and I often found ourselves at each others throats but the work they did on the Unertls was great. The USMC had a problem because the Unertls would not get a 100 yard zero on the 30moa base on the M403’s. USO developed a new spring system for the erector that allowed a 100 yard zero to be achieved. It worked better than the original Unertl system. So if you wonder why they made the modification now you know