CMP to offer a MK13 mod 3 on auction
- Thread starter HarryBC
- Start date
- Nov 3, 2010
- 10,284
- 22,297
I think that anyone that bid on it that hard has FU$ and has zero remorse about wining the auction. Probably excited to get it, rub it for an hour or two and let it disappear into a safe.
Apparently not to two people...
Rarity is what it is. And value is what it is.
Is a Boss and Co. "Racehorse" shotgun worth $60K? Well... they sell for that regularly.
All in the eye of the beholder. And I bet that in 5 years, this gun sells for double the auction price.
Sirhr
Respectfully, I completely understand what you're saying, but I haven't explained myself enough so that you're tracking on what I'm saying. When it comes to the value of something, I'm the king of wasting money, lol. Hell, I just paid $6,000 for a brand new Glock 19 and everyone on here is probably thinking I'm insane for that. However, now I have a set of original contract overrun Mk27 Mod 1 and Mod 2 pistols, with original contract overrun Trijicon SU-291 RMR's on each of them. I'm now the only person in the world with a set like that. Like anything else, you have to pay to play.
The difference between spending money on those Glocks vs spending money on the Mk13 is absolute authenticity. I know for a fact what these pistols and sights are, but we truly have no idea what this rifle is, where it came from and exactly how authentic it is. We assume it came from Crane, because they have sent a ton of stuff to the CMP. But is the rifle in original condition or has it been messed with? Has it ever had a barrel journal (Crane armorers call the barrel collar a journal, that's their official name for that specific part) on it? If so, was it ground down? Or is it a Mod 3 in the same sense that we call it a late Mod 0?
Like I've said before, this is the shittiest paint job I've ever seen on a military rifle and out of the 155 original Mod 0 stocks I had, I don't think I've ever had one with this type of paint job. Was it done by a sniper or was it done by someone at the CMP or Crane?
What I've only told a few close friends is that I originally had a partner with all of those Mk13 stocks. I bought out his share when he took home a MIRS rail, painted it and then told me that we should fake all of the unpainted stocks in order to make more money. He wanted to paint them, then pull them behind his riding mower on his lawn to give them "battle wear." I was absolutely disgusted with this and it took me hours to take his fake paint off that rail with acetone. I'm an honest person and he's a fucking cock knob who has faked other things as well. So, what about the CMP? Have they ever done something like that?
According to the wife of the Major who actually started the CMP's website, yes, they have messed with shit. She explained to me that if an almost all original Garand is missing a part or 2, they'll just add it and sell it as 100% original all matching parts. Does that matter to some people? Yes and no. I trust this woman with a lot of information because of her ties with the CMP, but can I verify it myself? No, I can't. This is hearsay and I'm not saying that the CMP has or hasn't done this, I'm just repeating what I've heard from a trusted source. But, if it is true, how far are they willing to go?
I typed up a lot more information about the CMP, but I'm going to send it to you via PM, I decided that I don't want to publicly share it. My point is that even with the CMP, caveat emptor, there's more that people don't know about.
That is why we're saying the price is ridiculous. Not because it actually has that value, it's because of questions surrounding it. If it had actually battle worn paint in a known pattern like the stocks I had and if they called it a Mod 0, then it would have brought in more money. I know for a fact that there's people who have posted in this very thread who have the money to buy it at multiple times the sale price, but they stayed out of it because of unknowns.
I hope this explains why the auction didn't go higher and what collectors are looking at. And once again, the information about the CMP that I received isn't something I've been able to verify myself. I believe what my source told me, but everyone else here should take it with a massive grain of salt.
I don’t dispute any of that!!!
But still came down to two people wanting it and setting the price.
Right, wrong or indifferent the market spoke on this one.
I still think, too, that in 5 years, the price will look cheap. Even with more issues on the gun than Readers Digest!
Sirhr
You could be absolutely right about that. Maybe more information will be provided that shows this rifles true authenticity and answers the questions everyone has. If that happens, then 18k is a steal!
I also want to say that I'm not ragging on the CMP. Just because a few people may have done something stupid every now and then doesn't mean that the CMP isn't a great organization. I love the CMP for what they do, and I've personally spent close to $50k buying stuff at their auctions and I will continue to do so. Unfortunately, this just wasn't one of the items I personally felt comfortable bidding on.
I started this thread to see what other collectors thought of the rifle. I did not bid. I have purchased from CMP since 1997, when they were on Anniston Army Depot. All of my contacts within CMP Have passed on or are not there anymore, so I could not obtain any insider info on the rifle……Yes, they assemble lots of rifles, and “correct” many before auction. At the end of the day the rifle is the only MK13 legally released to date that I am aware of, irrespective of “correctness”…..
We appreciate you starting this thread. I'm not trying to shit on it, it's actually quite the opposite. I've tried to analyze and provide every bit of information that my friends and I have discussed. It would be interesting to know if there are actually other Mk13's out there in the wild. We know of all sorts of rifles given out as shooting trophies, so why not a Mk13? It would be interesting if there were other rifles or receivers out there, maybe someday we'll see more (either through the CMP or other legal channels).
The FOIA response for this rifle didn't show any source. There is no record before 2013 when the DLA registered the weapon. The CMP has had it since 2013. Here is the response:
This letter is in response to your Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. The request
is for ownership history on a Remington Model 700 MK13 Sniper Rifle serial number
G6553999.
The following Information was found in the Department of Defense (DoD) Small
Arms/Light Weapons Registry for a Rifle, Sniper, NSN: 1005-00-537-1996, Serial
Number: G6553999. The records for this weapon are listed below in chronological
order:
1. December 03, 2013 – The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) Distribution -
Anniston, Alabama registered the weapon into the DoD Small Arms/Light
Weapons Registry.
2. December 06, 2013 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian
Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama received the weapon from the DLA
Distribution - Anniston, Alabama.
3. December 06, 2013 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama
conducted an annual weapon serial number reconciliation on the weapon.
4. December 07, 2013 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian
Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama shipped the weapon outside the
DoD to the Civilian Marksmanship Program South - Anniston, Alabama.
This letter is in response to your Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. The request
is for ownership history on a Remington Model 700 MK13 Sniper Rifle serial number
G6553999.
The following Information was found in the Department of Defense (DoD) Small
Arms/Light Weapons Registry for a Rifle, Sniper, NSN: 1005-00-537-1996, Serial
Number: G6553999. The records for this weapon are listed below in chronological
order:
1. December 03, 2013 – The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) Distribution -
Anniston, Alabama registered the weapon into the DoD Small Arms/Light
Weapons Registry.
2. December 06, 2013 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian
Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama received the weapon from the DLA
Distribution - Anniston, Alabama.
3. December 06, 2013 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama
conducted an annual weapon serial number reconciliation on the weapon.
4. December 07, 2013 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian
Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama shipped the weapon outside the
DoD to the Civilian Marksmanship Program South - Anniston, Alabama.
"registered the weapon into the DoD Small Arms/Light Weapons Registry"
Well, that's weird. It would suck to find out that it's a civilian build that was donated to the CMP in 2013, lol. Good thing it shows that the CMP received it from the DLA, so it's not a civilian rifle. It's a legit Mk13, but that FOIA information really, really sucks. And it's not because it's secret squirrel SOCOM, my M24's show that they went to Special Forces units. It's just really strange that the government just doesn't have any information on that Mk13 until it was sent to the CMP in 2013. It just raises even more questions.
Also, for comparison here's a few FOIA requests that I have for my M24 receivers, they each have multiple pages of very detailed information:
Well, that's weird. It would suck to find out that it's a civilian build that was donated to the CMP in 2013, lol. Good thing it shows that the CMP received it from the DLA, so it's not a civilian rifle. It's a legit Mk13, but that FOIA information really, really sucks. And it's not because it's secret squirrel SOCOM, my M24's show that they went to Special Forces units. It's just really strange that the government just doesn't have any information on that Mk13 until it was sent to the CMP in 2013. It just raises even more questions.
Also, for comparison here's a few FOIA requests that I have for my M24 receivers, they each have multiple pages of very detailed information:
Nice history on those M24's!
Here is an example of what I was looking for on this MK13. This was an FOIA on a 1911A1 sold by the CMP that had a previously unknown rebuild marking, "A 6 81", which was believed to indicate a rebuild at the USMC Logistics Base in Albany. The FOIA verified that the Army received it from the USMC at Albany, so that confirmed the source.
1. January 13, 1988 – The Marine Corps Logistics Base - Albany, Georgia shipped
the weapon to the Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama.
2. January 30, 1988 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama received
the weapon from the Marine Corps Logistics Base - Albany, Georgia.
3. January 26, 1991 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama shipped
the weapon to the Director of Logistics Supply and Services – Fort Benning,
Georgia.
4. February 26, 1991 – The Director of Logistics Supply and Services – Fort
Benning, Georgia received the weapon from the Anniston Munitions Center -
Anniston, Alabama.
5. April 29, 1998 – Owning activity of the weapon has been reported as the
Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama and posted to the DoD Small
Arms/Light Weapons Registry.
6. February 27, 1999 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama
shipped the weapon to the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) Distribution -
Anniston, Alabama.
7. February 27, 1999 – The DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama received the weapon from the Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama.
8. September 08, 2000, January 31, 2003, January 29, 2004, January 23, 2005, February 12, 2006, January 29, 2007, January 27, 2008, January 25, 2009, January 24, 2010, March 06, 2011, December 03, 2011, January 19, 2013, March 07, 2015, May 01, 2016, March 05, 2017 and June 04, 2017 – The DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama conducted annual weapon serial number reconciliations on the weapon.
9. February 02, 2018 – The DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama shipped the weapon to the Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama.
10. February 02, 2018 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama received the weapon from the DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama.
11. February 02, 2018 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama shipped the weapon outside the DoD to the Civilian Marksmanship Program South - Anniston, Alabama.
Here is an example of what I was looking for on this MK13. This was an FOIA on a 1911A1 sold by the CMP that had a previously unknown rebuild marking, "A 6 81", which was believed to indicate a rebuild at the USMC Logistics Base in Albany. The FOIA verified that the Army received it from the USMC at Albany, so that confirmed the source.
1. January 13, 1988 – The Marine Corps Logistics Base - Albany, Georgia shipped
the weapon to the Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama.
2. January 30, 1988 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama received
the weapon from the Marine Corps Logistics Base - Albany, Georgia.
3. January 26, 1991 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama shipped
the weapon to the Director of Logistics Supply and Services – Fort Benning,
Georgia.
4. February 26, 1991 – The Director of Logistics Supply and Services – Fort
Benning, Georgia received the weapon from the Anniston Munitions Center -
Anniston, Alabama.
5. April 29, 1998 – Owning activity of the weapon has been reported as the
Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama and posted to the DoD Small
Arms/Light Weapons Registry.
6. February 27, 1999 – The Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama
shipped the weapon to the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) Distribution -
Anniston, Alabama.
7. February 27, 1999 – The DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama received the weapon from the Anniston Munitions Center - Anniston, Alabama.
8. September 08, 2000, January 31, 2003, January 29, 2004, January 23, 2005, February 12, 2006, January 29, 2007, January 27, 2008, January 25, 2009, January 24, 2010, March 06, 2011, December 03, 2011, January 19, 2013, March 07, 2015, May 01, 2016, March 05, 2017 and June 04, 2017 – The DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama conducted annual weapon serial number reconciliations on the weapon.
9. February 02, 2018 – The DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama shipped the weapon to the Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama.
10. February 02, 2018 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama received the weapon from the DLA Distribution - Anniston, Alabama.
11. February 02, 2018 – The Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Civilian Marksmanship Program - Anniston, Alabama shipped the weapon outside the DoD to the Civilian Marksmanship Program South - Anniston, Alabama.
For me, I can see someone wanting a CMP certificate for a rifle like the one in this auction. It may be debatable as to exactly what it is or exactly what its history is, but it does give the "common collector" the opportunity to own a "legit" sniper rifle that is associated with a military history through CMP. A CMP certificate means a lot to many people in the military collectibles market. Is CMP rock solid, no...but a CMP "collector grade" certificate for a M1 Garand does fetch a premium at the military shows. The same goes for GunBroker sales. An "all correct" Garand without a certificate doesn't bring near what one in the same condition, parts, and certificate will bring.
I have taken advantages of the rare opportunities that came to me over the past 20+ years of collecting. I have few "special" M40A1- M40A5, MK13, M24, and other pieces that came only through private contacts that never seem to list such items for sale. There is an upper echelon of a small group of collectors that have accumulated the bulk of the rarest of the rare unicorns and it's like pulling teeth to find them and even harder to get them to turn them loose lol. Once that hurdle is crossed...have your PayPal, Zeele, or whatever payment option ready and a hefty amount of $$$ available .
Short version: "Regular Joe's" like me... do not have the contacts or the opportunity to buy REAL prior issued (legally DRMO/DLA) M24's, Mk13's, S&B NSN marked scopes, etc... and if we do the prices involved reflect such rarity. CMP is the only resource most of us have. Without CMP I wouldn't have a "legit" USMC Unertl, US 40x .22, M1D, etc.
I have taken advantages of the rare opportunities that came to me over the past 20+ years of collecting. I have few "special" M40A1- M40A5, MK13, M24, and other pieces that came only through private contacts that never seem to list such items for sale. There is an upper echelon of a small group of collectors that have accumulated the bulk of the rarest of the rare unicorns and it's like pulling teeth to find them and even harder to get them to turn them loose lol. Once that hurdle is crossed...have your PayPal, Zeele, or whatever payment option ready and a hefty amount of $$$ available .
Short version: "Regular Joe's" like me... do not have the contacts or the opportunity to buy REAL prior issued (legally DRMO/DLA) M24's, Mk13's, S&B NSN marked scopes, etc... and if we do the prices involved reflect such rarity. CMP is the only resource most of us have. Without CMP I wouldn't have a "legit" USMC Unertl, US 40x .22, M1D, etc.
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