Gunsmithing cnc bolt handle threading

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

lol, exactly what I was thinking about too.

'Course, you'll never break an axle if you never drive the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Scout</span> truck... </div></div>

now that's funny although i probably have no room to laugh at it. my 4runner has been sitting for a couple years now with a rod knock on a bran new engine.

 

[yama]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

What size Iroks are those? Your metal breakage talent is excellent! Been there plenty of times, lol.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

lol, exactly what I was thinking about too.

'Course, you'll never break an axle if you never drive the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Scout</span> truck... </div></div>

now that's funny although i probably have no room to laugh at it. my 4runner has been sitting for a couple years now with a rod knock on a bran new engine. </div></div>

I have nothing to say...

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yama</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What size Iroks are those? Your metal breakage talent is excellent! Been there plenty of times, lol. </div></div>

39".

 

[bohem]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

300-

From an engineer's point of view you're exactly right that a threaded insert does add a stress concentration in the bolt handle.

My suggestion if you need to bore the stub out is to drill and ream it to ~.001" radial clearance (.002 diametral clearance) over a steel dowel pin.

Silver solder the dowel pin into the pocket. This will reduce the stress concentration from the internal threads.

When you decide to take on work, I have 2 bolt handles (RH 700 and RH 7) that need this done.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300-

From an engineer's point of view you're exactly right that a threaded insert does add a stress concentration in the bolt handle.

My suggestion if you need to bore the stub out is to drill and ream it to ~.001" radial clearance (.002 diametral clearance) over a steel dowel pin.

Silver solder the dowel pin into the pocket. This will reduce the stress concentration from the internal threads.

When you decide to take on work, I have 2 bolt handles (RH 700 and RH 7) that need this done. </div></div>

thanks for your input.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300-

From an engineer's point of view you're exactly right that a threaded insert does add a stress concentration in the bolt handle.

My suggestion if you need to bore the stub out is to drill and ream it to ~.001" radial clearance (.002 diametral clearance) over a steel dowel pin.

Silver solder the dowel pin into the pocket. This will reduce the stress concentration from the internal threads.

When you decide to take on work, I have 2 bolt handles (RH 700 and RH 7) that need this done. </div></div>

The handle is silver soldered on to start with. Silver Soldering a dowell pin in place would tend to loosen the original solder joint.

 

[Hateca]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

I had an engineer / metallurgist friend look at this ten years ago and in short with the internal thread there is less stress then with external threading of the cast Remington bolt handle plus with spreading the load over a greater area internally there is no need to silver braze or any other welding if one chooses to insert a steel stud.

In most cases in stress and strength testing the stud alone was just as strong if not more then simply threading the outside of the Remington bolt handle, but this is one of those things that is always being revised and changed.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Not if you sink the heat away before it reaches the original solder joint.

The same as welding on a steel handle.

 

[toolmaker]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

I 'am still waiting for the five minute bolt knob conversion video. Well i'am waiting.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I 'am still waiting for the five minute bolt knob conversion video.</div></div>

It aint happening

 

[toolmaker]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Did'nt think so.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did'nt think so. </div></div>

By your screen name.........you probably already knew that

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

it sounded like mikki reconsidered his position a few pages back so i've let it go. now if he really can thread a bolt handle on a manual lathe in 5 minutes, hell even 15 minutes including setup time, i'd still like to see the video.

now i am trying to figure out if i can justify a full profile insert style thread mill so i can get mine down to under ten minutes including setup time.

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

I'm curious , what does a set up like that run you ? CNC that is

 

[subgunr]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Iscar HM90, 950 IC insert,.060r, 720 SFM dry,.003-.004 chip load, helical interpolate down in Z as you run XY arcs.Use cutter comp so you can get OD to size( major dia +.01) with first tool.Then face top also.
1/2 carbide 45 deg .050 champ on top of handle.
Iscar IC908 full profile SAE insert,full thread only .25 down. set up time (0) leave it on the corner of the table,Throw lever clamp to clamp bolt handle..(maybe 10 secs each on and off),op time
( 1.32 min).

Handle/knob bore -.003-.005 under OD size of shaft, amount equal to lenght of unthreaded shaft +.03 with a .060r internal( you want the knob to shoulder on the .060r of the bolt shaft created by the first tool) ,thread ID of bolt knob past this bore to full depth. Aluminum bolt knob finished to Mil-C-8625E,no finish in the bore...heat it up to about 250-300F,screw it on quickly. When it cools it will shrink down on the bolt handle shaft and you are done. With very minimal stress points and a supported bolt handle shaft by the tight fitting bolt handle.

Done 1 maybeeeee 2 this way .......lol

 

[toolmaker]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Just throwing out an idea. I dont know if it would work but what about doing a shrink fit instead of threading? Turn the bolt handle to .312 then ream the knob to .310/.3105. I know there are CNC Toolholders that use shrink fit technology. I relize that is a steel to steel interface and that the bolt handle to knob is steel to aluminum. It could not hurt to try. If i can get my hands on a extra Rem.bolt i will see if it can be done.

 

[GasLight]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PadronAniversary</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curious , what does a set up like that run you ? CNC that is </div></div>

Here is a link to the package breakdown:

http://www.tormach.com/Product_PCNC_packages_standard.html

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Ill make all of you a bet that , Both Myself or Flounder can knock them out in under 5 Min on a manual machine.

Did thousands on the manual before going the CNC route. It can be done. Hell Ill Video it. This is just for fun so what the hell .

Stay Tuned.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

It will have to wait till tomorrow , I dont have my Vid Camera here. Deifnatly tomorrow.

Fixture, and the correct cutters/threader are Key in this, I already know guys are going to cry foul when they see the vid.

LOL

 

[Hateca]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

^^^^ LOL I wouldn't take that bet for a second.

Oh you guys are going to hate this, you all only think there's only one way to do them on a manual machine, well there is more then one way, and it doesn’t always require a special fixture either.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Here is the only Items needed + Flounderand one Rem 700 bolt

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

i'm looking forward to seeing what you do.

i suspect an annular cutter and a floating die holder would be very fast in a manual machine once you have it setup.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

I like doing them on the Mori, But we did them with this setup for 8 years so we got prety good at it.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^^ LOL I wouldn't take that bet for a second.

Oh you guys are going to hate this, you all only think there's only one way to do them on a manual machine, well there is more then one way, and it doesn’t always require a special fixture either.
</div></div>

And it too takes about 5 minutes if you had your coffee

okay 10 minutes

 

[19Scout77]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^^ LOL I wouldn't take that bet for a second.

Oh you guys are going to hate this, you all only think there's only one way to do them on a manual machine, well there is more then one way, and it doesn’t always require a special fixture either.
</div></div>

Randy- I figured you'd wait to chime in on the 5 min bet until the Wager became interesting enough to be worth your time!!

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Video is done, Uploading it now, Flounder raised the Bar to 3 Min. He even dropped a tool trying to rush a tad, thank god we have Rubber mats under the machines, this could have been an Expensive video.


Im thinking it could have been done in 2:45.

Video coming shortly

 

[USMCj]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Holy shit, LOL 3 min?

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Here you go,

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3i2lCg8MHXQ"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3i2lCg8MHXQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

cool! that was great!

now i am going to have to get a full profile threadmill and get more aggressive with my doc on my endmill to try to get bellow the 2 minute mark also

i am wondering if i could write a macro to spiral in using radial chip thinning and get the shank machined even faster than a helix down. using the full axial depth of cut should be better for the life of it too.


edit: after watching the video, am i the only one that was scared seeing his hair so close to the cutter?

 

[GasLight]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

am curious about how that thread cutter works in the video. Do you have to reverse the spindle to get it off the stud? Do you just let the cutter pull the spindle down?

Very cool video

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

On the Mori we use a 1/2 " Small tooth Rougher to take down the knob. Its doen in 3 rotations and the cutter life is good. I replace it every 150-200 knobs. The Thread Mill lasts about 300 bolts and pretty much just snaps off to let you know its done. LOL. That program runs 1 min 38 sec. Ive pushed it to 1 min but it didnt sound really swift.

Still do Winchester knobs on the Lathe , those suckers are hard and a pain in the ass.

 

[USMCj]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Very cool!

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cool! that was great!
edit: after watching the video, am i the only one that was scared seeing his hair so close to the cutter?</div></div>


Thats why we call him Flounder. He is actualy more than a foot from the spindle, it looks like he is kissing it in the Video.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">am curious about how that thread cutter works in the video. Do you have to reverse the spindle to get it off the stud? Do you just let the cutter pull the spindle down?

Very cool video</div></div>

It releases compleatly when you pull back the z axis.

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

any chance we can get a shop tour via video of where our sticks are born ? kick butt video. That thread cutter I've never seen before, very cool

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Very nice George. You guys look like you have a lot of fun over there.

Be an honor to learn from you sometime

 

[gamma]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Man Im jealous your even quicker than me. Im waiting to get a few bolt knobs in so I can prove to the knowalls here that it can be done in 5 minutes. I notice a sudden silence from some of the greats after you came up with the 3 minute video, they dont seem to have quite as much to say now. Great stuff man. The one thing I will say to 300sniper now is, I think after looking at A10xrifles video it looks very like you could now do it on the CNC in about a minute or less.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

keep in mind you said on a manual lathe with insert tooling. when i see your 5 minute video from bench to bench on a manual lathe using insert tooling, i'll eat crow.

i don't think i could do it better than two minutes on my machine. i have no atc nor a pneumatic/automatic draw bar but my tool height does index automatically. tool changes take about 30 seconds.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mikki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I notice a sudden silence from some of the greats after you came up with the 3 minute video, they dont seem to have quite as much to say now. </div></div>

Big difference between a manual lathe and a mill. No doubt it can be done in the mill with annular cutters and fixtures but we're still waiting on that 5 minute bolt knob install video done on a manuel lathe, to include setup time.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Nice video George

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Hey, Hey, Hey, There were no Intentions to start a shit stirring contest. Like I said it was meerly for fun. The Fixture and Tooling makes the difference. 9 years ago when we first started doing these it took 30 Min each. With the right wave type rougher. and a faster toolchange (2010 Mori CNC) I bet it could be done in under a Min easy.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice video George</div></div>

Thanks William.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, Hey, Hey, There were no Intentions to start a shit stirring contest. Like I said it was meerly for fun. The Fixture and Tooling makes the difference. 9 years ago when we first started doing these it took 30 Min each. With the right wave type rougher. and a faster toolchange (2010 Mori CNC) I bet it could be done in under a Min easy. </div></div>

i was not referring to you in my last post. i hope it didn't sound that way. i know you were doing this in fun. i was pointing out that mikki said he would have 3 done in 15 minutes on a manual lathe with insert tooling including the setup time.

 

[gamma]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

The minute I get a Remmy bolt handle in, Ill show you my 5 minute job. If you had the ATC you would probably hit the 1 minute mark. I just spotted the ugliest crow I ever saw. Ill need your postal address, he's got your written all over him. I look forward to seeing your video of you eating this guy.

 

[monteboy84]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Nice work 300, always impressed by your brilliance in the machine shop. I'd love to have your machining skills, but my mind can't grasp much more than some pretty basic lathe and mill work.

Keep up the good work.

-matt

 

[19Scout77]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monteboy84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice work 300, always impressed by your brilliance in the machine shop. I'd love to have your machining skills, but my mind can't grasp much more than some pretty basic lathe and mill work.

Keep up the good work.

-matt </div></div>

Hey Matt- Don't sell yourself short brother! My personal preference for a Rem knob is your technique.

 

[triggerguard1]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

It's all fun and games till a guy fixtures more than one on a CNC....

 

[dareposte]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Jeeze that was fast... It took me about 20 minutes on a pedestal grinder to do mine. I have a mill and a lathe, but the mill tooling looks pretty specialized and my lathe is just a hair too small to swing the bolt.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Well I just tried recording me doing an install but I recorded the parts I didnt want to. I didnt have anyone to hold the camera so I planned to just film clips of every step.

Well I got it done in 5:45 but have only video of my work bench, the wall, and Metallica playing.

I'll film one tomorrow if one comes in. I can beat 5:45 too. I took time to film myself, and forgot to take out my tap set.

I'll try to beat 5 flat