Gunsmithing CNC exploits

[average_freak]

Ok guys, I have to throw this up to the forums. Probably going to get shredded on this but oh well. I have been seriously considering going into manufacturing, specifically ar stuff. To get to the point I am looking for advice on what equipment to get into.
I would like to lease or lease to buy something that can turn out uppers and lowers relatively quick, not so much big production level stuff. Leaning towards Haas. I would like to keep cost for financing below 50k, I got space and I'm in Cali but the town I'm in has no licensing requirements for firearms so the 07 FFL should not be that big of a deal.
oh yeah, ZERO experience machining but I don't have time to go to school since I already do and work full time. Don't care how much I have to study, tinker and putz around b/c I will enjoy doing it. This is just for feeding my bolt gun habit. If it doesn't work oh well, I still got a job and will just know a little more about a skill that I want to have eventually.

Thanks for reading and please don't pull any punches

 

[LRI]

Re: CNC exploits

A haas is considered by many as "the chevy" of cnc equipment. They are prolly the most common of any modern cnc.

That being said they can often be picked up cheap. So can FADAL machines. (Another brand)

I own a haas and it serves my purposes well. You however are heading down a path with big shoes to fill.

Palletize. Huge tool carriages, high speed tool changers, high rpm spindles, high pressure through spindle coolant delivery, and powerful software should all be considered std equipment for any kind of volume manufacturing.

Its all doable, just takes a lot of visa cards and that carries a boss payment each month.

CA and manufcturing aren't often good bedfellows. Exactly why many have left the state. EPA, etc. . . doesn't lend well to new growth.

If your serious you could get your "fix" with a knee mill fitted with a conversational style control. Learn to crawl with this, get some software, post to the control (memory or via DNC) and when you out grow it step into a production center. You'll never get rid of the knee mill as its often not practical to run a quick job on a big center.

Always remember, you ONLY make $ on a CNC when that spindle is running and the load meter is 50% or above. The more it runs the more you make.

Its an expensive learning curve. Prepare.

My honest advice, get chit part time job at a job shop first. Crash/bust up their machines on their dime. Something as dumb as a G0 where a G1 is supposed to can mean thousands of dollars when the rapid rate is 1200ipm.

Just sayin.

Best of luck. If ya want it bad enough it'll happen.

C.

 

[average_freak]

Re: CNC exploits

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If your serious you could get your "fix" with a knee mill fitted with a conversational style control. Learn to crawl with this, get some software, post to the control (memory or via DNC) and when you out grow it step into a production center. You'll never get rid of the knee mill as its often not practical to run a quick job on a big center.

C. </div></div>
Would this be like a retrofit of a manual knee mill? Is this something between a DRO and full on g-code. Again probably a dumb question but if you have any specific names or examples that would be awesome.

This sounds like my best option, with an undefined schedule working 60-80+hr weeks w/ full time night school I just can't conform to another at the moment. I would love to sweep chips and clean tanks for some extra $ but I just can't now. I think you hit it on the head, it's more along the lines of "getting my fix," stupid addictive personality.

 

[300sniper]

Re: CNC exploits

i dabble in the cnc stuff but i am far from qualified to recommend equipment.

equipment aside, the ar market is pretty much over saturated. if you want to make money, or even survive, you had better have something extremely unique and sought after.

 

[angelballer]

Re: CNC exploits

Here is one company for knee mill retrofits: http://www.southwesternindustries.com/swi/index.shtml. If you are just planning on making AR uppers and lowers, I have a hard time believing you are going to even make a profit when you take into account tooling, CAD/CAM, ITAR, electric, etc. The AR market is just too saturated. I think there is money to be made in the gun industry but not in uppers and lowers unless you have something unique and can produce large quantities. A retrofit knee mill is not a good start to quantity production.

EDIT: 300 beat me on your flawed business model.

 

[300sniper]

Re: CNC exploits

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something as dumb as a G0 where a G1 is supposed to can mean thousands of dollars when the rapid rate is 1200ipm.</div></div>

even at paint drying speed of 65ipm, accidental being in g91 when manually probing the center of a hole can cost an electronic edge finder when you thought you were in g90

 

[average_freak]

Re: CNC exploits

What I was getting at was making custom Ar's along with just about anything else I can think of gun wise, not just uppers and lowers. Didn't really say that at all in my initial post but that's where I'm going with it. Is that an even worse business idea? probably, but the good thing is is that I don't need to survive off the income, just make enough so I can go broke with this stuff.

Thanks for the input links and little bit of a reality check, back to scheming.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: CNC exploits

There is only so much you can do with "custom" AR's that isn't being done already. Anybody can assemble them which is why I am baffled that anyone would pay $2k+ for a big name AR when you can assemble a better one for half the cost.

 

[crunchysuperman]

Re: CNC exploits

I've been in CNC machining for 22 years. Get prepared for some serious sticker shock! The machine is the relatively easy part. What you're not prepared for (I guarantee) is the cost of material, tooling, consumables & spare parts. You will not believe how costly this business can be! If you can find a nice little niche part that you can be profitable with in your spare time in the garage, then you're fortunate. The AR market is awash with folks doing what you're suggesting, so unless you're prepared to be tooled up to the point of driving cost very low, my advice would be to think again.

 

[ScottWatkins]

Re: CNC exploits

Like Dixon said, bad things can happen when there is a G0 where a G1 was supposed to be. And a decimal point in the wrong place can cost you thousands of dollars. See if you can take a machining course from a local trade school. Learning manual machining will give you more insight on HOW to machine and will give you a better understanding of a CAM software. And be ready to spend money there also. You can spend $10K easy on a good CAD/CAM package.
Good Luck.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: CNC exploits

Can you say, "Z-Down Club"???

Basic machining knowledge is a MUST. Software doesn't generate thought and planning.