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PRS Talk CO Prs Match
- Thread starter DocRDS
- Start date
Yeah--sounds I'll be driving out west. I thought USPSA was a shit show. They got nothing on this BS.
I've been a member since 2014 and an active competitor since 2019.
Is it drama-free? Nope. Are there some malcontent howler monkeys? Yep, and they are ignored. What I haven't seen is this "shit show" of which you speak.
I have seen controversies and assholes dealt with according to the rules and bylaws of the organization.
PRS is in a league of its own when it comes to shit shows.
This is just like MSM reporting, one sided, no context and all opinion, WTF
Its been mostly at the top with the presidents/finances--has largely left competitors unaffected. Except for the bogus production rules that made it "almost limited 10"
And also Area 6. Don't be Area 6. (Which is the South East...hmmmmmm)
But PRS as you say is next level.
The president got dealt with. It took a while but you have to do things right.
I sorta agree with you about the changes to production and carry optic guns, but in the end they don't matter. Nils Johnasson is proof of that. If fools want to burn thousands in a Shadow 2 Orange or 320 Legion Max to stay in C class, I'm not gonna stop them.
Area 6 is alright
I was at Colorado. I spoke to Doug about it at length and heard it all first hand from him and the shooters involved. I already heard everyone's version of events.
Doug made the right decision. Stage briefs are written out for a reason. I feel bad he spent nearly two hours having to deal with it and had to assign a chaperone to follow the squad on Sunday to keep them from further damaging the integrity of the match.
One of the shooters involved has been removed from my Pro Series match and range entirely. That has absolutely nothing to do with his behavior in Colorado. As the NW Regional PRS director, this had already fallen into my lap and myself and multiple other MDs had decided he would be removed from our ranges. I was waiting until after the Colorado match to discuss it with him. We have received so many complaints and so many shooters reaching out to us because he joined their squad and they refused to shoot with him. He's also been banned from the other Idaho ranges. His multiple events of unsportsmanlike conduct, one witnessed instance of cheating, and inability to take any reposonsibility for his actions has lead to this. Just like with his behavior in Colorado, he thinks everyone else is to blame. Per my communication with him he has not been banned from the PRS. I issued him a warning on the behalf of the PRS over his behavior and informed him of the ranges where he was no longer welcome. Unless Shannon reached out to him later and banned him, he is still a member of the PRS.
So I think its important to understand that if you're going to go public in the defense of someone, you should know who they are.
In every sporting event there exists someone who has to interpret events and make a decision. Be it a referree, a judge, or in this case, the RO and Match Director. And just like with all sporting events, disgruntled competitors make a stink because they don't agree with the call. Doug Koenig made the right call. Its an imperfect series of events, these things happen. But he made the right call.
Doug made the right decision. Stage briefs are written out for a reason. I feel bad he spent nearly two hours having to deal with it and had to assign a chaperone to follow the squad on Sunday to keep them from further damaging the integrity of the match.
One of the shooters involved has been removed from my Pro Series match and range entirely. That has absolutely nothing to do with his behavior in Colorado. As the NW Regional PRS director, this had already fallen into my lap and myself and multiple other MDs had decided he would be removed from our ranges. I was waiting until after the Colorado match to discuss it with him. We have received so many complaints and so many shooters reaching out to us because he joined their squad and they refused to shoot with him. He's also been banned from the other Idaho ranges. His multiple events of unsportsmanlike conduct, one witnessed instance of cheating, and inability to take any reposonsibility for his actions has lead to this. Just like with his behavior in Colorado, he thinks everyone else is to blame. Per my communication with him he has not been banned from the PRS. I issued him a warning on the behalf of the PRS over his behavior and informed him of the ranges where he was no longer welcome. Unless Shannon reached out to him later and banned him, he is still a member of the PRS.
So I think its important to understand that if you're going to go public in the defense of someone, you should know who they are.
In every sporting event there exists someone who has to interpret events and make a decision. Be it a referree, a judge, or in this case, the RO and Match Director. And just like with all sporting events, disgruntled competitors make a stink because they don't agree with the call. Doug Koenig made the right call. Its an imperfect series of events, these things happen. But he made the right call.
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More speculation and 3rd party tap dancing around. If we we can't have the facts and just let everyone else say "trust us"--whats the point.
I don't trust any of you bastards farther than i can toss you. Everyone has an agenda. Frank is at least open about his. He may be a bastard, but he's a bastard who consistently lets me know where I stand rather than telling me "its all good--trust me"
I don't trust any of you bastards farther than i can toss you. Everyone has an agenda. Frank is at least open about his. He may be a bastard, but he's a bastard who consistently lets me know where I stand rather than telling me "its all good--trust me"
The very existence of this thread shows its already blown out of proportion. I wont stir the pot further.
The guy has a loud mouth, he’s also very helpful to new shooters around the South ID and North UT area.
I personally don't have a problem with that but i know a lot of people do. I’ve never seen him openly cheat, i have seen him argue a point here and there tho. I have also seen him drop the argument when its clear he’s in the wrong.
Cheating is one thing, no one comes back from that. Being unsafe around guns, DQ the shit of of him. If that’s what actually happened, swing that axe.
Now, effective area bans for a loud mouth, arguing some points, touching props or looking for a reshoot at 1 day matches…
Wrong? Yes. Should 20 other people get banned tonight, yes again.
I personally don't have a problem with that but i know a lot of people do. I’ve never seen him openly cheat, i have seen him argue a point here and there tho. I have also seen him drop the argument when its clear he’s in the wrong.
Cheating is one thing, no one comes back from that. Being unsafe around guns, DQ the shit of of him. If that’s what actually happened, swing that axe.
Now, effective area bans for a loud mouth, arguing some points, touching props or looking for a reshoot at 1 day matches…
Wrong? Yes. Should 20 other people get banned tonight, yes again.
The
But that's the thing.....The rest of the story has not been told such as what really happened? Frank's podcast suggests some people were granted the right to re-shoot a stage while others were denied. If the reason around the re-shoot was the same as the denial, that is BS! I've been part of such a scenario....where some were able to re-shoot a stage that I just completed. I was dumbfounded and moved on but it still pisses me off a year later. Coincidence or not, the guys that were able to re-shoot the stage were some of the top competitors.
Doug made the right choice attacking the squad, accusing Chris of being being a slimeball (who was just trying to stop the drama) he was not right
The entire squad stopped signing the practiscore and just shot for no score rather than leave
It was a shit show Doug was not telling the truth but he’s Doug so who will question him
The entire squad stopped signing the practiscore and just shot for no score rather than leave
It was a shit show Doug was not telling the truth but he’s Doug so who will question him
No cheating
The DQ was for arguing he deserved a reshoot when others got one on the same stage
He argued it was unfair and was removed for not dropping it after Doug poisoned the squad threatening them via ROs who pre warned the squad they were a problem
Plus he made a Facebook post they didn’t like so he was banned for that too
The DQ was for arguing he deserved a reshoot when others got one on the same stage
He argued it was unfair and was removed for not dropping it after Doug poisoned the squad threatening them via ROs who pre warned the squad they were a problem
Plus he made a Facebook post they didn’t like so he was banned for that too
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Stay relevant haha.
The PRS has less participation than a kindergarten class and I reach 100s of 1000s bordering on millions
Please define “relevant” for me ?
The PRS has less participation than a kindergarten class and I reach 100s of 1000s bordering on millions
Please define “relevant” for me ?
Chris Way was part of the issue, he was in the squad and had words with Doug, my phone was called and I spoke to him for a long time
He also spoke to Shannon as he was selected to be banned also for trying to calm Doug down and settle the issues. Doug turned on Chris. Shannon was gonna remove him, funny he is not a member
If Doug was right why did Shannon offer Chris a call from Doug to apologize? Hmm that part seems weird if he was right ?
He also spoke to Shannon as he was selected to be banned also for trying to calm Doug down and settle the issues. Doug turned on Chris. Shannon was gonna remove him, funny he is not a member
If Doug was right why did Shannon offer Chris a call from Doug to apologize? Hmm that part seems weird if he was right ?
Chris called me on his way home from the match. He told me that Doug also told the squad that they couldn't speak while at a stage. Instructed their babysitter to DQ anyone who talked. I'm sorry, but I'm a grown fuckin man. You try to tell me I can't speak AND call me a slime ball when I didn't do anything, we got a real problem.
Also, Chris said that Keith Baker was a complete professional and a gentlemen during the whole ordeal. I expect no less from Keith. He is a serious competitor and knows the drill so he can see things from a shooters perspective.
Also, Chris said that Keith Baker was a complete professional and a gentlemen during the whole ordeal. I expect no less from Keith. He is a serious competitor and knows the drill so he can see things from a shooters perspective.
They are picking winners and losers the cheating claim is to make the punishment more palatable
Doug lied to people to protect his position it’s that simple
Lots of people in that squad are known shooters nobody there I spoke defended Doug
Sorry typical PRS bullshit rewritten for the masses. They have a history of lying about the facts and shutting down discussion
The man was cancelled
Doug lied to people to protect his position it’s that simple
Lots of people in that squad are known shooters nobody there I spoke defended Doug
Sorry typical PRS bullshit rewritten for the masses. They have a history of lying about the facts and shutting down discussion
The man was cancelled
So who got the reshoot and what was it for? Was it a legitimate reshoot or did some pro get extra benefits based on name recognition?
If the PRS had a Range Officer training program this would end.
But Shannon is greedy and lazy
You have the rules handed down that suck, should have been rewritten years ago (see lazy)
They then go from MD to RO to Competitor ( reshoots were real so spare me) interpreted along the way.
If you trained ROs and used some of the money to create an “official” you’d have less issues (see greedy) send the guys to events to run the range officers you make enough
You have tons of repeat volunteers hire some
But Shannon is greedy and lazy
You have the rules handed down that suck, should have been rewritten years ago (see lazy)
They then go from MD to RO to Competitor ( reshoots were real so spare me) interpreted along the way.
If you trained ROs and used some of the money to create an “official” you’d have less issues (see greedy) send the guys to events to run the range officers you make enough
You have tons of repeat volunteers hire some
Pros with a name they got reshoots I believe it was 2 or 3
Phil got a reshoot…
See guys know the game, was it a name, yes, of course it was - people see it
The inconvenient problem here for the PRS apologist is Chris Way,
He was in the squad and dragged into this by Doug. Chris has a podcast too and was not happy at all He is just more diplomatic than I will be.
Let’s see the apologist debate him if they want “first hand” cause his retelling is different than above.
The agendas are clear they have a coordinated narrative, see above. They circle the wagons, hide the bodies and put out their fake news. Protect the crown at all costs even their reputations. Which we all know given the chance you’re the next body under the bus if the mob declares it.
He was in the squad and dragged into this by Doug. Chris has a podcast too and was not happy at all He is just more diplomatic than I will be.
Let’s see the apologist debate him if they want “first hand” cause his retelling is different than above.
The agendas are clear they have a coordinated narrative, see above. They circle the wagons, hide the bodies and put out their fake news. Protect the crown at all costs even their reputations. Which we all know given the chance you’re the next body under the bus if the mob declares it.
I’m not an apologist. Diplomacy and Honey will often times catch and bring more changes. Otherwise you are just seemingly trying to elevate your brand over the next and drawing attention and drama to make it about yourself. That overshadows the actual issue at hand. That’s what it appears to many. But most of us know that’s the Frank way. Hahaha. Then it becomes even more tribal as you eluded to in your podcast.
This is awesome, because you don’t see my outreach
1. I have had multiple 2+ hour calls, you never hear about.
2. I tried hosting a summit to settle the entire country - PRS said no
3. I offer solutions every time - less now because they fall on deaf ears. How much change have you seen ?
4. I partner outside my economic interest to help others and lend support - usually for free
5. I provide content - what does the PRS do ?
So please expand for me ?
What has Shannon done to grow the sport that didn’t pay him first ? What outreach has the PRS done to grow the sport
Grow the sport is his fall back line - name the programs ?
And PS
I started with the competitions in 2001 and host the fIrst SHC in 2003.
There was not series for 10 years, we grew things then too. Truth is we helped create this experience that these guys are fucking up.
Sue me I don’t like what they are doing to a sport I am considers an OG in. I have a long history here, they are fucking that up.
There is a ton of drama even without me pointing it out. Deny all you want that I amplify things. It was ok when I amplified them, but not now.
Sweeping things under the rug is their specialty. Why wouldn’t you want it better. I’m asking for improvements and we have plenty of threads outlining some minor ones that never happen.
Why people insist on protecting something from someone who doesn’t care about them mystifies me.
I started with the competitions in 2001 and host the fIrst SHC in 2003.
There was not series for 10 years, we grew things then too. Truth is we helped create this experience that these guys are fucking up.
Sue me I don’t like what they are doing to a sport I am considers an OG in. I have a long history here, they are fucking that up.
There is a ton of drama even without me pointing it out. Deny all you want that I amplify things. It was ok when I amplified them, but not now.
Sweeping things under the rug is their specialty. Why wouldn’t you want it better. I’m asking for improvements and we have plenty of threads outlining some minor ones that never happen.
Why people insist on protecting something from someone who doesn’t care about them mystifies me.
Oh and for the Johnny Cum Lately(s)
The PRS was conceived on here, this is where it started like that fact or not, so I get to say whatever I want
Funny how it’s all about shooting the messenger, but the message is no problem. They act like if they shut down the topic the problem will go away. 10 years later, here we are
And since nobody wants to mention it, I’ll keep on amplifying the problems as they cross my desk. I love I’m the first call of a disgruntled shooter it’s like a new hobby
The PRS was conceived on here, this is where it started like that fact or not, so I get to say whatever I want
Funny how it’s all about shooting the messenger, but the message is no problem. They act like if they shut down the topic the problem will go away. 10 years later, here we are
And since nobody wants to mention it, I’ll keep on amplifying the problems as they cross my desk. I love I’m the first call of a disgruntled shooter it’s like a new hobby
Yeah know I was gonna come back here and say "If you think Frank is such a loudmouth, why not post details and show him for the 'scoundrel' he is". But we got a big deadline for a conference today so I'm late to the keyboard gladiator arena.
As El Jeffe said: silence is deafening.
I've also seen the cover ups, "trust me", deleting posts, banning people. That never happens when people want to cover up the truth <sarcasm>.
What do you think we are stupid or born yesterday?
As El Jeffe said: silence is deafening.
I've also seen the cover ups, "trust me", deleting posts, banning people. That never happens when people want to cover up the truth <sarcasm>.
What do you think we are stupid or born yesterday?
Let's talk about agendas and narratives for a second, a couple of people have said how Lewie is a bully, and argues every point he can get. Well let's look at the examples we have here:
How did Doug win 2 years in a row, the PRS Production Class ?
He complained to the Series about technicalities twice, he bitched so the winner's points were stripped and he was awarded the win, doing the same thing he complained about. No need to rehash it, it's here, but he shot rifles not in production until they were, and then complained to the series to get his wins.
What was the outcome of giving him the wins after complaining, Ruger sponsored more.
So the idea they didn't like a squeaky wheel is beyond comical
we know the squeaky wheel gets the grease, he was taught that by the rockstars of the series. They all love to use technicalities when they can... beats shooting for a win.
How did Doug win 2 years in a row, the PRS Production Class ?
He complained to the Series about technicalities twice, he bitched so the winner's points were stripped and he was awarded the win, doing the same thing he complained about. No need to rehash it, it's here, but he shot rifles not in production until they were, and then complained to the series to get his wins.
What was the outcome of giving him the wins after complaining, Ruger sponsored more.
So the idea they didn't like a squeaky wheel is beyond comical
we know the squeaky wheel gets the grease, he was taught that by the rockstars of the series. They all love to use technicalities when they can... beats shooting for a win.
I don’t have a clue what happen or didn’t happen in CO. And this may not mean anything to anyone else, but it pertains to RO’s.
At the GAP Grind last year, I saw with my own two eyes, an RO, whom I know personally, get handed a whopping $60.00 dollars for three days of work ROing in piss pouring rain. I asked him how many hours he worked the three days. When he totaled it up, he made $3 a flipping hour for his three days.
Yeah, he walked the prize table for something that was donated, not paid for by PRS. Hell with that…..I’d set those three 20’s on fire right in the parking lot. How much did that match bring in, again? $60.00, are you kidding me.
At the GAP Grind last year, I saw with my own two eyes, an RO, whom I know personally, get handed a whopping $60.00 dollars for three days of work ROing in piss pouring rain. I asked him how many hours he worked the three days. When he totaled it up, he made $3 a flipping hour for his three days.
Yeah, he walked the prize table for something that was donated, not paid for by PRS. Hell with that…..I’d set those three 20’s on fire right in the parking lot. How much did that match bring in, again? $60.00, are you kidding me.
As a shooter of said squad, I think there’s information on both sides of the conversation that has mudded what transpired.
I would have to sit down and write the whole two days out in chronological order in order to paint “my” version of events. The short version is there was an inconsistency to the ruling of being able to call “wrong target” as the rules state it’s up to the MD if it’s allowed or if it’s “coaching” keep in mind we had many new shooters in the squad.
