Coating options for Sugeon

[Gil P.]

I tried contacting surgeon, but haven't received any response after a couple weeks.

Will any particular coating or treatment hurt the action? I heard that the surgeons come ion bonded. Can someone confirm?

 

[jg6.5]

I tried contacting surgeon, but haven't received any response after a couple weeks.

Will any particular coating or treatment hurt the action? I what the surgeons come ion bonded. Can someone confirm?

See attached, they ship unfinished - mine did too 7 or 8 years ago.

I had mine Cerakoted, and I'd venture to say that's the most popular option.

 

[Backspace]

When i bought mine they came bare steel also. I had them melonited and extremely happy with the results.

 

[Gil P.]

When i bought mine they came bare steel also. I had them melonited and extremely happy with the results.

Does the melonite process affect the heat treat at all? Who did the meloniting?

 

[Gil P.]

See attached, they ship unfinished - mine did too 7 or 8 years ago.

I had mine Cerakoted, and I'd venture to say that's the most popular option.

I see, so the steel comes bare, no treating of any kind, aside from heat treat.

 

[kthomas]

If it was me, I would be looking hard at a DLC finish.

I don't believe there's any chance that DLC can hurt the action. However, it can flake off if not applied properly. If applied properly, it's an excellent surface treatment.

 

[Backspace]

Does the melonite process affect the heat treat at all? Who did the meloniting?

I believe it was MMI that did mine. My smith handled it all for me. I dont think there were any adverse effects to the action. Both actions are on their 3rd barrel and look like new and smooth as glass.

 

[jg6.5]

Does the melonite process affect the heat treat at all? Who did the meloniting?

Nitride (Melonite) is a surface hardening process, so in the technical sense, yes, it affects heat treat - but it's only at the surface, and the remaining heat treat through the rest of the part remains unchanged.

...at least the way I understand it. The way I see it, if nitriding an action was truly bad for it and ran the risk of ruining an action, it wouldn't be as common as it is. I wouldn't worry about it if that's what you truly want.

 

[spife7980]

Nitride (Melonite) is a surface hardening process, so in the technical sense, yes, it affects heat treat - but it's only at the surface, and the remaining heat treat through the rest of the part remains unchanged.

...at least the way I understand it. The way I see it, if nitriding an action was truly bad for it and ran the risk of ruining an action, it wouldn't be as common as it is. I wouldn't worry about it if that's what you truly want.

*ideally*
unideally it can.
Which is why most say to leave the nitriding to the manufacturers who know what they are making and out of what vs someone who is making a best guess and hoping for a good outcome.

 

[Gil P.]

Nitride (Melonite) is a surface hardening process, so in the technical sense, yes, it affects heat treat - but it's only at the surface, and the remaining heat treat through the rest of the part remains unchanged.

...at least the way I understand it. The way I see it, if nitriding an action was truly bad for it and ran the risk of ruining an action, it wouldn't be as common as it is. I wouldn't worry about it if that's what you truly want.

Looks like there's nothing to worry about then. Does the bolt get treated as well?

A long time ago I asked LRI about either meloniting or DLCing my PTG bolt and was told it would weaken the bolt. I'll have to try and find the post...

 

[Gil P.]

*ideally*
unideally it can.
Which is why most say to leave the nitriding to the manufacturers who know what they are making and out of what vs someone who is making a best guess and hoping for a good outcome.

Are you saying that if its not an option from the action manufacturer, don't do it?

 

[jg6.5]

*ideally*
unideally it can.
Which is why most say to leave the nitriding to the manufacturers who know what they are making and out of what vs someone who is making a best guess and hoping for a good outcome.

I don't disagree.

I guess I can only really offer my thought process:

1st choice - just have it Cerakoted and be done with it.
2nd choice - buy an action already nitrided from the manufacturer
3rd choice - send an action off to a reputable processor for treatment, specifically someone that caters to the firearms industry as opposed to a generic metals processor (or whatever). Don't know who that would be off the top of my head, but the manufacturer might recommend someone if they don't do it themselves.

 

[spife7980]

Are you saying that if its not an option from the action manufacturer, don't do it?

I wouldnt send my own off after the fact, no. Because whoever you send it to may not know the details of the thing to properly do what needs to be done.
But if you do it then I would sure try option 3 so that the place you send it to is at least familiar with it. Nitrided parts still get scrapped all the time.
Id much rather have the manufacturer get it back and approve of what has been done to their product first before I potentially turn my money into scrap.

I don't disagree.

I guess I can only really offer my thought process:

1st choice - just have it Cerakoted and be done with it.
2nd choice - buy an action already nitrided from the manufacturer
3rd choice - send an action off to a reputable processor for treatment, specifically someone that caters to the firearms industry as opposed to a generic metals processor (or whatever). Don't know who that would be off the top of my head, but the manufacturer might recommend someone if they don't do it themselves.

 

[Edds]

I believe Surgeon Bolts are Nitrided, and the receivers are not. They have the proper clearance for both pieces to be Cerakoted.

 

[rijndael]

I believe Surgeon Bolts are Nitrided, and the receivers are not. They have the proper clearance for both pieces to be Cerakoted.

When I bought my replacement bolt, they told me it was 'flash nitrided' and I should still plan to coat it because it can still rust. I had it Cerakoted, specifically the Micro Slick coating.

 

[brianf]

I would think there is a “best” coating as the specs of the action are made with coating thickness in mind.

Any coating will work but a call to them would prob be the smart route.

 

[rijndael]

Any coating will work but a call to them would prob be the smart route.

FWIW: They specifically told me Cerakote.

 

[Huskydriver]

Some of the worst feeling actions I have ever felt were cerakoted surgeons.....

 

[BCX]

Does the melonite process affect the heat treat at all? Who did the meloniting?

I spoke w Surgeon on melonite . They told me it shouldn't hurt the heat treating but there is always a slight risk. I have one w a melonited bolt w cerakote action , my buddy did the entire action body and bolt in melonite, my XL was full cerakote and ran very smooth.

 

[candyx]

1581XL cerakote feels like glass

 

[BCX]

Some of the worst feeling actions I have ever felt were cerakoted surgeons.....

Thats how i felt w 1 Defiance i owned

 

[Supersubes]

I thought later surgeons could be had nitrided from Surgeon? Call them and ask if they can be, and by whom.

Defiance has their actions done by H&M. The vast majority aren't done though, so I send the naked ones out myself after I receive them.

 

[Nortex]

I have a surgeon that has been dlc coated, at least the bolts have been. It’s on numerous barrels on both the standard bolt face and the 223 bolt.

 

[kthomas]

Some of the worst feeling actions I have ever felt were cerakoted surgeons.....

Cerakote is just a bad surface treatment/coating for actions, IMHO.

 

[Gil P.]

1581XL cerakote feels like glassView attachment 8052950

What kind of cerakote was used? And were the inside of the race ways costed as well?

 

[Huskydriver]

Cerakote is just a bad surface treatment/coating for actions, IMHO.

totally agree.... I would never do that to one of my actions but I have ran others and its bad but the surgeons I have felt had it seemed to be even more gummy

 

[WeiserBucks]

I've paid way to much for cerakote to be applied by some of the best builders in the country. It sucks dry dong and I'll never pay for it again.

 

[Huskydriver]

I've paid way to much for cerakote to be applied by some of the best builders in the country. It sucks dry dong and I'll never pay for it again.

It's a great coating just not on the inside of an action

 

[WeiserBucks]

It's a great coating just not on the inside of an action

I agree, it's just frustrating when the top applicators tell you "We've got it down, we're the best, this time will be different, we're way better than the guy you used last time, those guys didn't know what they were doing".

I've spent over $1k on a single build getting cerakote up one side and down the other and it sucked. I'm not talking about uncle Jimmy's tire shop and gun coating, but top builders. It blows and every time I see them here talking about how awesome they are it makes me want to puke.

 

[BCX]

Hornady One Shot will slick up any action.

 

[DJL2]

I had an action Cerakoted (somewhat unintentionally) - I can confirm that this is a terrible idea.

Have you looked at Birdsong Green-T? Looks and feels very nice on my Surgeon 591 (Delta-51).

 

[BCX]

I have a hard time believing a cerakoted Surgeon runs like shit. I have owned 6-7 w cerakote and all have ran like a well oiled machine, smooth as glass. Plenty of clearance for cerakote. Are you guys running the bolts dry?

 

[rijndael]

I have a hard time believing a cerakoted Surgeon runs like shit. I have owned 6-7 w cerakote and all have ran like a well oiled machine, smooth as glass. Plenty of clearance for cerakote. Are you guys running the bolts dry?

Yep, mine work just fine too. I have one bolt hard chromed, it was the original one Preston did for me with the whole build. The other bolt is the Cerakote Micro Slick coating I got so I could have a non-internal extractor and a small pin.

 

[lte82]

I melonited my surgeon action, and it works perfectly. Zero bolt bind or drag, and it doesn’t slow down in dusty conditions like a cerakoted action.

 

[candyx]

What kind of cerakote was used? And were the inside of the race ways costed as well?

H-146 Graphite Black and the bolt and inside the action was coated.

 

[otnot]

I just recently had my 1581 XL Cerakoted inside and out. It was definitely scratchy at first, but with a little oil and a couple hundred manipulations it smoothed out.

 

[Gil P.]

Hornady One Shot will slick up any action.

I live in the desert, and usually don't put oil on my bolts.

 

[Gil P.]

I had an action Cerakoted (somewhat unintentionally) - I can confirm that this is a terrible idea.

Have you looked at Birdsong Green-T? Looks and feels very nice on my Surgeon 591 (Delta-51).

I just read about it. It sounds like an ideal finish. Did it have any break in time like cerakote needs?

 

[DJL2]

It was so smooth out of the case that I'm not sure I'd notice it breaking in. Ran exactly like I wanted it to from the get go.

 

[tho98027]

Call TS Customs. Hes found someone they really like to do DLC on actions for him. He’s had some surgeons done and was very impressed with the finish.

 

[Baron23]

Not for nothing, Gradous cerekoted Surgeon actions routinely, I believe, and I've not heard complaints about his guns.

Last action I bought was a Defiance from Altus and they sent it out for nitride treatment...not just mine, they seemed to send them all out in batches as received from Defiance....and it runs very well and I'm quite pleased. I have no idea who they sent it to but perhaps they will tell you if asked nicely.

 

[rijndael]

Altus uses H&M