"Cold Bore"

[chrisgrammar]

A little background. I am a true amateur. I am 63 y/o and have my own range out to 700 yards. I shoot a Tikka Tactital A1 with a Night Force ATACR. My competency is reliably hitting a 12 inch target at 700 yards with a constant crosswind no greater than 5mph. I have taken classes with the world's best-Frank Galli and Marc Taylor. Simply stated I am okay at a low intermediate level of competency in action and thought. So please be gentle. This cold bore concept bothers me. It is as if that cold bore shot were preliminary to a hot bore series of shots. Sort of a warm up to the real action. Now I call that an incompetent thought. In most? all? tactical situations the first or cold bore shot is the one that counts. To use a phrase from another field of endeavor, I would call it "the money shot." So I expect "well that's obvious!" I would reply, when you generate DOPE do you let your barrel cool before you shoot at each distance? Do you take three shots and average them. What happens to the barrel as it heats up with those three shots? Does it expand and reduce pressure and velocity? Do you generate DOPE strictly with a chronometer and generate DOPE strictly with a "cold bore shot" at each distance. If you think these thoughts are irrelevant then why is it necessary to have a distinct phrase, "cold bore?"What are your thoughts. Only competent ones though.

 

[Dthomas3523]

With modern rifles and barrels, centerfire “cold bore” changes in POI are 99% the shooter and not the rifle.

If you test enough to know for sure you have a barrel exhibiting a cold bore shift, send it back or buy a new barrel.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sporter barrels may exhibit some shifts after a few shots.

But they are not designed to be run for long strings of fire. Doing so is using the tool improperly.

 

[_Windrider_]

Cold shooter not cold bore, like what @Dthomas3523 said

 

[seansmd]

I think the best example of testing out the shooter is to warm you up on a different rifle with live fire. Getting all your habits dialed in, npa, breathing, setup, bipod, bags, trigger pulls, etc.

Then switch to the cold rifle and see if it demonstrates a shift.

All this assumes a cold but fouled rifle, first firing after cleaning is another discussion all together.

 

[6.5SH]

Try nothing but dry fire for the first 10+ shots then see if your cold bore shot still deviates from the rest.

 

[seansmd]

Try nothing but dry fire for the first 10+ shots then see if your cold bore shot still deviates from the rest.

This is good, but doesn't take out first shot flinchers, some folks need that first one to get their brain dialed in that shit goes boom.

 

[MikeRTacOps]

A little background. I am a true amateur. I am 63 y/o and have my own range out to 700 yards. I shoot a Tikka Tactital A1 with a Night Force ATACR. My competency is reliably hitting a 12 inch target at 700 yards with a constant crosswind no greater than 5mph. I have taken classes with the world's best-Frank Galli and Marc Taylor. Simply stated I am okay at a low intermediate level of competency in action and thought. So please be gentle. This cold bore concept bothers me. It is as if that cold bore shot were preliminary to a hot bore series of shots. Sort of a warm up to the real action. Now I call that an incompetent thought. In most? all? tactical situations the first or cold bore shot is the one that counts. To use a phrase from another field of endeavor, I would call it "the money shot." So I expect "well that's obvious!" I would reply, when you generate DOPE do you let your barrel cool before you shoot at each distance? Do you take three shots and average them. What happens to the barrel as it heats up with those three shots? Does it expand and reduce pressure and velocity? Do you generate DOPE strictly with a chronometer and generate DOPE strictly with a "cold bore shot" at each distance. If you think these thoughts are irrelevant then why is it necessary to have a distinct phrase, "cold bore?"What are your thoughts. Only competent ones though.

A good barrel receiver fit ( High torque ) has a lot to do with no POI shift or Extremely minimal if any at all.

Thought I would chime in…

But what would I know

Mike R.

 

[chrisgrammar]

A little background. I am a true amateur. I am 63 y/o and have my own range out to 700 yards. I shoot a Tikka Tactital A1 with a Night Force ATACR. My competency is reliably hitting a 12 inch target at 700 yards with a constant crosswind no greater than 5mph. I have taken classes with the world's best-Frank Galli and Marc Taylor. Simply stated I am okay at a low intermediate level of competency in action and thought. So please be gentle. This cold bore concept bothers me. It is as if that cold bore shot were preliminary to a hot bore series of shots. Sort of a warm up to the real action. Now I call that an incompetent thought. In most? all? tactical situations the first or cold bore shot is the one that counts. To use a phrase from another field of endeavor, I would call it "the money shot." So I expect "well that's obvious!" I would reply, when you generate DOPE do you let your barrel cool before you shoot at each distance? Do you take three shots and average them. What happens to the barrel as it heats up with those three shots? Does it expand and reduce pressure and velocity? Do you generate DOPE strictly with a chronometer and generate DOPE strictly with a "cold bore shot" at each distance. If you think these thoughts are irrelevant then why is it necessary to have a distinct phrase, "cold bore?"What are your thoughts. Only competent ones though.

Thank you for your thoughts. I will go to the range and do 10 dry fires before my first shot and see what happens. I re-affirm zero at 100 yards before every session and notice the wandering zero usually only .1mil but if I am off that at 100 that could mean off target at 700. I will get back to you. Thanks again for the thoughtful replies. By the way I forgot to mention I shoot .308 and never clean my barrel. Sort of a steady state hypothesis and frustration with the contradictory advice I've gotten. Someone who I respect advised not cleaning; something about the necessary build up of copper inside the barrel.

 

[Dthomas3523]

A good barrel receiver fit ( High torque ) has a lot to do with no POI shift or Extremely minimal if any at all.

Thought I would chime in…

But what would I know

Mike R.

Mike, what torque you using on Lone Peak?

 

[High Desert duck]

I re-affirm zero at 100 yards before every session and notice the wandering zero usually only .1mil but if I am off that at 100 that could mean off target at 700.

just a thought if your zero confirmation is a single shot and your shooting .5 moa groups. That zero shot is possibly just the outlier of the group. Once I’m confident in my zero I don’t go chasing .1 mil.
it is a recipe for frustration.

 

[Delta Tactical]

A good barrel receiver fit ( High torque ) has a lot to do with no POI shift or Extremely minimal if any at all.

Thought I would chime in…

But what would I know

Mike R.

I can confirm this. There was vitually zero POI shift on Cold Bore. I can also confirm the High Torque barrel receiver fit.

When i shot out my 260 we tried pulling off the barrel and almost broke the wrench off. The only way to get it out was to part it off on the lathe.

 

[Travelor]

I have been shooting competitively for 60+ years and have NRA classifications in High Master centerfire competitions out to 1000 yards and Master in RF competition.

It has been a observed fact that a cold clean core shot in many rifles does not necessarily impact in the same location as shots out of a "fouled" barrel. I have some guns that put this cold clean barrel shot in the same impact point as the remainder of the match and some that do not. It is more a matter of the barrel having been cleaned before the shot rather than the barrel being cold, That is why when shooting a 600 yard match with only 2 allowed sighter shots we go to the match with a gun that we have shot before arriving. If you read the log books pf true snipers both military and law enforcement you will find a page on the observed impact shift in first shot from a cold and cleaned barrel.

 

[1moaoff]

Agreed that normally its the shooter.
UNLESS!!!!! You swab or clean your barrel after shooting. And this is still a maybe. It depends on your set up.

Honestly dryfire before sending the first round. Get in and out of position a few times.

Find out if your first shot is the consistent one and the others are change of position.

 

[308pirate]

I have been shooting competitively for 60+ years and have NRA classifications in High Master centerfire competitions out to 1000 yards and Master in RF competition.

It has been a observed fact that a cold clean core shot in many rifles does not necessarily impact in the same location as shots out of a "fouled" barrel. I have some guns that put this cold clean barrel shot in the same impact point as the remainder of the match and some that do not. It is more a matter of the barrel having been cleaned before the shot rather than the barrel being cold, That is why when shooting a 600 yard match with only 2 allowed sighter shots we go to the match with a gun that we have shot before arriving. If you read the log books pf true snipers both military and law enforcement you will find a page on the observed impact shift in first shot from a cold and cleaned barrel.

See post #8

 

[b6graham]

I think its fair to assume most of us do not clean barrels every time we go to range or a match.

Don't confuse cleaned bore with cold shooter(bore)

 

[Steel head]

I used to believe/blame that cold bore.
It was 100% me.

 

[chrisgrammar]

Thank you again. By the way loved the Pinochet quote. I have considered free helicopter rides for my liberal friends. Only one way tickets allowed. If it worked for Kobe it will work for you is my slogan. Haven't had much interest though probably should stick to my day time job.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have been shooting competitively for 60+ years and have NRA classifications in High Master centerfire competitions out to 1000 yards and Master in RF competition.

It has been a observed fact that a cold clean core shot in many rifles does not necessarily impact in the same location as shots out of a "fouled" barrel. I have some guns that put this cold clean barrel shot in the same impact point as the remainder of the match and some that do not. It is more a matter of the barrel having been cleaned before the shot rather than the barrel being cold, That is why when shooting a 600 yard match with only 2 allowed sighter shots we go to the match with a gun that we have shot before arriving. If you read the log books pf true snipers both military and law enforcement you will find a page on the observed impact shift in first shot from a cold and cleaned barrel.

No LE sniper is going to take a clean barrel shot in real life. If they do, they are not adequately prepared. That page is just something that has hung around and is circa 1980 information.

 

[dgheriani]

Yeah, huge difference between "cold bore" and "cold, clean bore". "Cold bore" shift is all shooter. "Cold, clean bore" is another matter. Although most of my rifles don't exhibit a poi shift (and when they do, it's slight, 0.1 or so) even for the 1st round after cleaning, they always exhibit a noticeably slower muzzle velocity, somewhere in the vicinity of 50-60fps, that disappears after the first shot down a freshly cleaned barrel. I've logged this over numerous rifles/barrels across every caliber I shoot (.223, 6 Creed, 6.5 Creed, .308) pretty much every time I've checked zero after cleaning.

 

[chrisgrammar]

I just tried the 10 dry fires then cold bore. Worked great. zero was perfect. Must be cold shooter rather than cold bore. Probably jerking the trigger.
Thank you again. And thank you for affirming what must be a rudimentary issue.