Gunsmithing cold void help needed

[grambo]

I have a remington 700 sps that I have poured about $3000 into. it has about 600 down the tube, and the last hundred or so it only starts grouping after it heats up some. my bench rest shooting buddy tells me that i need to remove the barrel, clean the threads and re torque it down. something about it having a gap that is filled when the barrel expands or something.

long story short I need an action wrench. I made a barrel vice, but I am only an ok machinist, and I can't justify buying one when they are $80+ when I am only gonna need it this once. also I like to do my own work, as I am quite mechanical and somewhat untrusting of gunsmiths.

does anyone have a remington 700 action wrench I can borrow? I am willing to pay shipping both ways and reximus can vouch for my character, I am no thief.

thanks for any and all help in this matter.k

 

[ugsly]

I have a remington 700 sps that I have poured about $3000 into. it has about 600 down the tube, and the last hundred or so it only starts grouping after it heats up some. my bench rest shooting buddy tells me that i need to remove the barrel, clean the threads and re torque it down. something about it having a gap that is filled when the barrel expands or something.

long story short I need an action wrench. I made a barrel vice, but I am only an ok machinist, and I can't justify buying one when they are $80+ when I am only gonna need it this once. also I like to do my own work, as I am quite mechanical and somewhat untrusting of gunsmiths.

does anyone have a remington 700 action wrench I can borrow? I am willing to pay shipping both ways and reximus can vouch for my character, I am no thief.

thanks for any and all help in this matter.k

Is it a stock remington 700 barrel? The reason I ask is stock barrels can be fussy and require a whole wrap around wrench. If its a new barrel another gunsmith put on then you can possibly use a side or thru wrench to take it off. I like to use the surgeon wrench as I can put my torque wrench on it.

Casey

 

[grambo]

It is the factory barrel but it was removed a while back when the action was trued and the lugs were lapped, I asked them to use anti seize during reassembly. It should not be too difficult of a prospect.

 

[persistant7500]

How or why would you have half of a truing job done on an action. I always clean up the threads or most of the time open up and recut the threads of an action. In either case this increases the minor and major diameters of the barrel tenon required so thus if you reuse the old barrel you have introduced a weakness into the system and at best you are only able to hold against the shoulder and recoil lug. It seems as though this will actually result in a loss of potential accuracy. All that said what do I know.

 

[grambo]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I just need to borrow an action wrench, can you help me with that?

 

[19Scout77]

What he is saying is that nobody with half a clue reinstalls a factory barrel after a receiver has been properly trued as a proper job requires that the threads are recut larger than factory. It may be in your best interest to proceed as if you have a factory barrel that was not removed and there is no never seize present.

 

[grambo]

I am gonna pretend that you think you are being helpful and refrain from really speaking my mind.

Now back to the matter at hand I have a rifle that has the factory barrel reinstalled after the lugs were lapped and a gunsmith went through and did a bunch of work to, but because I chose to keep the factory barrel didn't true up everything. That is not the issue.

The issue is I still have a cold void that is not letting the gun shoot good until it heats up and NEED AN ACTION WRENCH TO FIX THAT!!!

Really guys I didn't think this was gonna be a big deal.

 

[geargrinder]

What everyone is trying to tell you (very nicely in fact) is that what you want to do isn't going to fix your problem.

How do you get $3000 into a rifle and still have a POS factory barrel on it?

 

[Asperly Aimless]

What everyone is trying to tell you (very nicely in fact) is that what you want to do isn't going to fix your problem.

Sorry to copy you geargrinder, but what you said needed to be said again.

You (op) had a Remington action trued and stuck the factory barrel back on. That was a poor decision for many reasons that I really don't feel like detailing here.

I have an action wrench, but you may not use it. You created a problem by going cheap on the barrel, then you get aggravated at everybody who is trying to help you come up with the real solution.

Good luck on your search.

 

[ugsly]

What everyone is trying to tell you (very nicely in fact) is that what you want to do isn't going to fix your problem.

Sorry to copy you geargrinder, but what you said needed to be said again.

You (op) trued a Remington action and stuck the factory barrel back on. That was a poor decision for many reasons that I really don't feel like detailing here.

I have an action wrench, but you may not use it. You created a problem by going cheap on the barrel, then you get aggravated at everybody who is trying to help you come up with the real solution.

Good luck on your search.

To OP like said in post above, when you have your action trued your threads in the action will be opened up or should have been. IF he did and reinstalled the factory barrel your problem most likley is that. It would be like sleeping with a well used prostitute (like throwing a hotdog down a hallway). You have a lot of slop now in your threads, he should of talked to you about that and setback your existing barrel and recut the threads to mate up with your threads on your action. We are here to help, please listen and try to understand what we are talking about and we may save you a lot of heartache in the end.

Casey

 

[sgtsmmiii]

PM sent.

 

[bohem]

I don't lend tools like that, but if you want to send me the barreled action (no trigger) I can get you my FFL via PM and I will simply pull the barrel off, check the receiver and bolt contact and retorque like you want to do. The charge is only shipping/insurance both ways.

I doubt that it's going to fix your issue but once I look at it I will be able to advise you better on HOW to fix the issue instead of chasing phantoms.

If there's other work that you want to do once I get it and send you a report, we can discuss after the fact, but for right now I'll do what you've been advised for just the cost of round trip shipping.

Send me a PM to get in touch with me.

 

[Red_SC]

long story short I need an action wrench. I made a barrel vice, but I am only an ok machinist, and I can't justify buying one when they are $80+ when I am only gonna need it this once. also I like to do my own work, as I am quite mechanical and somewhat untrusting of gunsmiths.

You should be able to make one very easily if you're an OK machinist. Take a piece of hex stock and mill most of it flat and a chunk out for the antibind rail, and there it is. Or, take a piece of flat and weld a nut to the end of it. Since your barrel has already been off, it should work just fine.

BTW, where are you located? If you fill out your profile, there may be someone local who can help you.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

I don't lend tools like that, but if you want to send me the barreled action (no trigger) I can get you my FFL via PM and I will simply pull the barrel off, check the receiver and bolt contact and retorque like you want to do. The charge is only shipping/insurance both ways.

I doubt that it's going to fix your issue but once I look at it I will be able to advise you better on HOW to fix the issue instead of chasing phantoms.

If there's other work that you want to do once I get it and send you a report, we can discuss after the fact, but for right now I'll do what you've been advised for just the cost of round trip shipping.

Send me a PM to get in touch with me.

Wow, what a nice offer!!!

 

[flylo]

You can't beat that offer. I'd be all over that. Very kind offer indeed!

QUOTE=bohem;2898267]I don't lend tools like that, but if you want to send me the barreled action (no trigger) I can get you my FFL via PM and I will simply pull the barrel off, check the receiver and bolt contact and retorque like you want to do. The charge is only shipping/insurance both ways.

I doubt that it's going to fix your issue but once I look at it I will be able to advise you better on HOW to fix the issue instead of chasing phantoms.

If there's other work that you want to do once I get it and send you a report, we can discuss after the fact, but for right now I'll do what you've been advised for just the cost of round trip shipping.

Send me a PM to get in touch with me.[/QUOTE]

 

[19Scout77]

Don't forget the old adage...No good deed goes unpunished!

 

[bohem]

Don't forget the old adage...No good deed goes unpunished!

Reading the posts by the OP more carefully I'm beginning to get concerned in that direction...

 

[Rthur]

This could be a bear trap Bohem.
Factory barrel on a 3k rifle sounds fishy to me.
The op could be a great guy and his smith not so much.

R

 

[bohem]

I'm hoping that it's just that he's (sorry to say it OP) been taken for a ride by the 'smith and he's never been advised by someone that really knows the job.

I'm not agreeing to do anything other than what he initially asked, which is to remove, inspect, retorque and then tell him what I think. I won't agree to anything further, and while I might rethink doing it now, I've made the offer so I'll stand by it.

I strongly suspect another issue, but even a loose fitting barrel isn't necessarily a death sentence to accuracy, I dealt with an action that was cut to 1.077 x 16 TPI and fitted with a barrel that the major diameter on the threads was 1.045, it still torqued up tight and for the first 4k rounds shot in the low 0.2's for the owner. He wore the barrel out and needed a new one, I was surprised, but it did show me that just because you can cut threads to only have 1/4 RCH of clearance doesn't mean you're actually getting more from the gun. I replaced it with a barrel that I threaded for 1.073 x 16 TPI and it shoots similarly, in the high 0.1's and low 0.2's regularly.

 

[Straight Shooter]

You should be able to make one very easily if you're an OK machinist. Take a piece of hex stock and mill most of it flat and a chunk out for the antibind rail, and there it is. Or, take a piece of flat and weld a nut to the end of it. Since your barrel has already been off, it should work just fine.

BTW, where are you located? If you fill out your profile, there may be someone local who can help you.

View attachment 26700

Red, I would be very careful of an action wrench like this. By the time you reach 150 to 250 foot pounds torque to break the threads loose on a tight fitting barrel the action will have to twist quite a bit.

A better one is cut away through the action and only grabs the front action bridge right up at the barrel. Even that style will not tolerate much over 150 pounds.

We just built one for use on the Chey Tac sized Stiller actions.

Here it is beside the Holland 700 sized wrench.


Gambo,
If you are within driving distance you can use my stuff right here in the shop. A SH courtesy to help a buddy out if you will. Sorry I just can't send it out though.
Shawn

 

[Red_SC]

A better one is cut away through the action and only grabs the front action bridge right up at the barrel. Even that style will not tolerate much over 150 pounds.

Thanks, excellent suggestion.

 

[grambo]

I just want to take a minute and publicly thank "sgtsmmiii" for his kindness in loaning my the action wrench to fix my r700, you sir are a true gentleman. I have now removed and re torqued my factory barrel and am back to shooting 1/2 moa average. Also my cold bore shots are far more consistent (about 3/4" right at 100) my woes are over, and I am most grateful. I would also like to say I believe some of you meant to help, but my lord some of you are ass holes about it. Work on that?

As for my character that was questioned repeatedly during this ordeal you can all ask sgtsmmiii if I screwed him...

Also for the haters here is a pic.:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachment.php?attachmentid=28823&stc=1&d=1391385997


yes, $3000+

 

[Straight Shooter]

I'm still trying to figure out where $3000 went and still have a factory barrel.

Second I am stunned that the barrel torqued up to a different location when you did it than when the guy that built it did it. What was done different?

The issue is I still have a cold void that is not letting the gun shoot good until it heats up and NEED AN ACTION WRENCH TO FIX THAT!!!

What is a cold void? 40 years of shooting and 5 years fitting barrels full time and I have yet to ever hear the term. In the future one of the marks of good true gunsmithing is the rifle will shoot about anything you put in it very well. Seating depth, bullet choice, powder charge and most other variables it should still group pretty well.

Anyway, glad it all worked out for you.

Shawn