Coldbore

[OzTRG]

Thought we could start a thread on all things Coldbore (hardware, software, questions, advice etc). I am by no means a expert, I have some experience with the desktop and app on a windows phone, there are however some very knowledgeable folk on the hide whom I hope will join in and help out.

For those interested I run Coldbore 1.0 on a Nokia 550. I don’t have a SIM card in it as I use a kestrel to obtain environmental data and input that into the application, and upload and download tracks via wifi. I run seperate battery bank/charger and can readily get a couple of days use out of the phone at a competition. I have not tried it for an expended hunt in inclement weather - plan to put it in a small pelican type case and print/ laminate Density altitude cards for hunting.

I have gathered real world dope for my 260 rem (a Tikka T3x in an AICS stock) and my 300WM (TRG42) out to 1008m so far and and both are spot on.

I trust that this will get the questions and discussions flowing.

 

[223remfmj]

Good thread. Thx for starting it.

I am considering buying an unlocked Nokia Lumia 635 for this purpose. Does anyone have any experience (good/bad) running Coldbore on this device?

 

[OzTRG]

223,

As stated above I run the Nokia Lumia 550. From the Patagonia website it suggests the following hardware and software to run its mobile edition:

Hardware specs ( minimum )
-ARM-based processor (if different, please contact us).
-Display resolutions : QVGA (240 x 320), WQVGA (240 x 400), VGA (480 x 640), WVGA (480 x 800).
-Touch Screen device.
-624Mhz processor.
-128Mb of total device memory is highly recommended.
-55Mb of free program memory (during execution).
-35Mb of free storage memory (for program, databases and associated files).
Software specs ( minimum )
-Microsoft® Windows Mobile® 2003 Second Edition
-Microsoft® Windows Mobile® 5.X
-Microsoft® Windows Mobile® 6.X

Looking at a comparison between my 559 and the 635 they appear to have comparable hardware
550 on left and 635 on right

HARDWARE
System chip
Qualcomm Snapdragon 210 Qualcomm Snapdragon 400
Processor
Quad-core, 1100 MHz, ARM Cortex-A7 Quad-core, 1200 MHz, ARM Cortex-A7
Graphics processor
Adreno 304 Adreno 305
System memory
1 GB RAM 1 GB RAM
Built-in storage
8 GB 8 GB
Storage expansion
up to 200 GB up to 128 GB


Not being a phone geek this looks like it should work with the 635. From a display point of view the comparison looks like this:

Resolution 720 x 1280 pixels 480 x 854 pixels
Coldbore displays fine on the 550 and it looks like the 635 is in the range for the Patagonia minimum required. Pixel density is a little less in the 635 (see below) so it might be a tad grainy.

Pixel density
314 ppi 218 ppi

So it appears it should work provided it is running the appropriate windows software. Depending on the price of the unit you could always try it and if it didn’t work sell it. Alternatively you could email patagonia.

Hope this helps.

 

[CavReconScout]

FWIW I am running Cold Bore on a Nokia Lumina 928 with 32gb it runs great. I run it in airplane mode and don’t use it for anything else. I believe it has a dual core chip, but it is really fast running Win 8.1. I paid $65 for it and it is basically new in the box.

 

[Conrad]

Will Coldbore mobile sync up with a kestrel for environmental input? I didn’t see anything in the mobile manual. Also, I’m not sure how to manually input into the weather tab in mobile, seems to only work off of RSS feed which requires internet connection.

 

[Diver160651]

Knowing why any piece of gear is the correct choice for your type of shooting is a good idea.

I am a Cold Bore and FFS fan, but find myself using things I never thought I would like BallisticArc.

I transparency, I must say that I have grown completely tired of devices that need to be reset, lockup, spit out bad data or need to wait consistently for a software update or fix. As such, some of these devices and solvers have changed what I might use in a field. My watches with temp and station pressure never screw me, if I need wind, I’d rather toss my money at something without a AB solver in it..

So when I consider the frustration and many thousand $ I have wasted on devices in this category, CB and a damn $50 phone with my watch are a damn good price, for piece of mind.

Before we start going down a rabbit hole of singing all Cold Bore as the end all be all, I think knowing how it best fits or even were it is beat out might be wise.

As an example on the field uses:
1. Inside were most people are shooting and actually past it, most the solvers are VERY good a their drop predictions.

2. For fields of fire like a match where you have been given the Stage/target distances beforehand, or creating a field map for hunting, other solves like BallisticARC or FFS offer better solutions.

Now, if you are a true ELR shooter, meaning your systems shoot from a 100 yard zero and need/want a curve that works from a 100 zero all the way to your end game; there are only two easily accessible solutions. This will drive you to FFS or Cold Bore. FFS only runs in a Trimble or somewhat smaller Juno and 3x the price of Cold Bore. Most of us used FFS because of the field features being very fast and vast, but also ran Cold Bore on the desktop, if not side by side occasionally. The gear was expensive, large and heavy. See an old image below.

For everyday shooting and positional type matches, I am running BallisticsARC. For shooting where I know I am going further than 1200-1300 I start thinking CB on the mobile. I can get the same “drops” (NOT all the same features as FFS), in this in a tiny, light and CHEAP package.

I found even the cheapest Actel windows 8.1 phone works. I paid $40 on Amazon.

But again, if I am going to a match, I simply just taking the BallasticARC because the range cards are so fast.

So buy and use the best tool for the specific job.. usually it isn’t just one tool..

 

[Conrad]

^^Good post and good visuals. I have accumulated a lot of gadgets and solvers and also use Coldbore on the desktop. I have always liked the layout of BallisticsARC and find myself using it more and more. The multi target layout for is just really nice. The layout of Coldbore mobile seems better for single targets and getting that better solution for ELR. It’s not hard to scroll through distances though, I just haven’t figured out how to sync or manually input weather besides in the zero/load set up.

A and B winds in BallisticsARC for bracketing would be cool.

 

[223remfmj]

Fantastic information Oz and Diver. Thank you both so much for your detailed and informative responses. This is why I am so impressed with SH. Tapping into the wisdom of others is invaluable. So thank you again.

I am envious of your ability to get a cheap Nokia Lumia or similar. Up here in Canuckistan (ie The Great Socialist Republic of Kanada) I can’t find a (now discontinued) Windows phone such as the Lumia 635 or 550 for less than $200-300 on Amazon or EBay. I will keep up my search and hopefully find the elusive cheap Windows phone so that I can get onboard with the mobile version of CB. As Diver puts it so very well, I think that this would be a good addition to my 1000M+ toolbox.

 

[223remfmj]

Update. Using a little field ingenuity I’ve found and purchased a Nokia Lumia 635 (I believe this is the same one that Lowlight uses for CB) off of the US version of Amazon and remarkably they’re prepared to ship it to the Great Frozen Socialist North. So I’m all set.

I’ve also downloaded the premium version of BallisticsArc due to your advice.

I think I’ve really learned something here today and I’m grateful for all of the comments. I really like Diver’s comment that one tool is not necessarily the right way to go and so having multiple tools at my disposal will lead to more data and better results, particularly at the 1000M+ distance as I’m used to shooting up here.

As we say up here - Thanks eh!

 

[OzTRG]

Awesome info, thanks diver. The right tool for the right job is a definite.

Conrad, I just manually input the environment data obtained from my kestrel.

 

[LastShot300]

I've been running all versions of CB for the last 5 years or so, which gives me, to a certain extent, some solid basement to base my opinions on. I've to add that I used most of what is offered today on the market, since the dark ages of Exbal.

I agree with Diver about CB to be the most accurate tool to do ELR work, but his usage is different from mine. He, for instance ranks high the "range cards" while I don’t and in that regard the GPS Targets module of CB is all I need, including a real satellite map with locations of all my waypoints.
What CB does is a list of targets sorted by distance, which is different to what GeoBallistics does because it also includes the fire solution. I'm sure that arrangement works well for those interested in PRS or something akin to.

In my hunting outings I only care about the distance to bedding spots and other features I get from topo maps (as calculated internally by the software taking the GPS signals) simply because I laze the game when I got ready to take the final shot.

I also agree that if you are not into LR or ELR there are other packages that do the job, and most of them are way cheaper. CB is a specialized tool meant for the discriminating shooter. It takes time to master it given its many modules and features. The manual itself is the best one around fully loaded with all kind of details and awesome info on general ballistics.

CB on the Phone is wonderful, ultra fast and great UI, but not so on a PDA where FFS is faster for sure, but the engines are very different too. Have to say the only other package I’ve really like is FFS for its accuracy.

Before I moved to the Phone, I ran both FFS and CB on a NOMAD and later on a JUNO3B. Honestly I cannot bear those old horses any more, and a man should do something about so, I got rid of both (sold both time ago for a good price) and never looked back.

To those new to CB my advice is take the time to fully read the manuals and don’t let the impressive array of features daunt you. Trust me on this, CB is as simple as you want to use it or as fully fledged as you dare to go.

FFS on the other hand, never showed me any love with its interface full of menus and submenus…and submenus…but we were not all created the same and has a loyal base of followers despite its price which I’ve never come to appreciate. I can get CB Desktop and Phone for less than half of what FFS will put me down.

About CB coolest features is the ability to sync data between all 3 versions very easily.

 

[Diver160651]

In agreement. Would like to add a bit of context to the FFS/CB/GeoBalistics range card.

FFS’s utility come from milgrade RF tethered. Range set done, multiple targets near meter accurate. It also includes GPS and mapping features that are slow and cumbersome... fine for planning but not the best on site tool.

CB and BallisticARC use similar GPS and Sat images to determine FFP to targets. But like FFS this method is NOT the same as tethered.

When it comes to manual entry, lazed beats GPS/Topo for time and precision. Manual known range is way faster than using a GPS tool.

Are you showing up at a match and have 20 minutes to make your game with know distance stages? Go BallisticArc. Do you need meter accuracy? Go tethered. Want the best desktop program? Go Cold Bore Etc.

These are all things for your consideration.

However, if you decide you want to run CB on Mobile ... blow up Lastshoots300’s email, he is the resident expert on CB mobile

 

[LastShot300]

In agreement. Would like to add a bit of context to the FFS/CB/GeoBalistics range card.

FFS’s utility come from milgrade RF tethered. Range set done, multiple targets near meter accurate. It also includes GPS and mapping features that are slow and cumbersome... fine for planning but not the best on site tool.

CB and BallisticARC use similar GPS and Sat images to determine FFS to targets. But like FFS this method is NOT the same as tethered.

When it comes to manual entry, lazed beats GPS/Topo for time and precision. Manual known range is way faster than using a GPS tool.

Are you showing up at a match and have 20 minutes to make your game with know distance stages? Go BallisticArc. Do you need meter accuracy? Go tethered. Want the best desktop program? Go Cold Bore Etc.

These are all things for your consideration.

However, if you decide you want to run CB on Mobile ... blow up Lastshoots300’s email, he is the resident expert on CB mobile

+1 as usual

BTW, I'm just a regular user with lots of time behind the wheel but far from being an expert LOL

 

[Snuby642]

Ok so between you and pallmeto-pride, cheap samsung thread.
I have an old phone with a dead battery I'm going to replace the battery, try and strip any non ecentiial apps,
run in airplane mode until I need 2 wifi.

Would any of the gps programs work without cell or wifi?
They call it gps on the apps but i figure they lie and it comes from towers instead.
I could get environmental and gps from my primary if connection available or plan ahead as suggested as for a hunt
I do love the setup you have and am changing mine to mimic.

If a 15$ battery will get my old android workin good, if not will go the rout of pallemeto-pride and get a new rig.

It will be like a new girlfriend if it works out, maybe the wife wont shoot it? Lol

 

[OzTRG]

Snuby, I don’t use the GPS however I just tried it (no SIM card and wifi turned off) and it was able to obtain a valid fix. The last and long I was able to confirm with dedicated gps unit The map displayed a position (a red flags with GPS Pos written on it)but no map was shown. It displayed “unable to contact server” which makes sense.

I trust this is of some use to you

 

[tag_heuer]

Is there any plans you know of to run this on an iPhone? Seems like finding a windows phone will become harder and harder in the future

 

[c ward]

Ok so between you and pallmeto-pride, cheap samsung thread.
I have an old phone with a dead battery I'm going to replace the battery, try and strip any non ecentiial apps,
run in airplane mode until I need 2 wifi.

Would any of the gps programs work without cell or wifi?
They call it gps on the apps but i figure they lie and it comes from towers instead.
I could get environmental and gps from my primary if connection available or plan ahead as suggested as for a hunt
I do love the setup you have and am changing mine to mimic.

If a 15$ battery will get my old android workin good, if not will go the rout of pallemeto-pride and get a new rig.

It will be like a new girlfriend if it works out, maybe the wife wont shoot it? Lol

Coldbore won't run on Apple or Android , windows only .

 

[_Windrider_]

Federal law requires all cell phones to have functioning gps at all times.

 

[Nik H]

+1 as usual

BTW, I'm just a regular user with lots of time behind the wheel but far from being an expert LOL

Can either you or @Diver160651 elaborate on the exact model of phone you are using. I am planning to switch from the NOMAD as well.

 

[LastShot300]

Can either you or @Diver160651 elaborate on the exact model of phone you are using. I am planning to switch from the NOMAD as well.

I followed Patagonia's advice and got a simple Nokia 635 because any Lumia is GTG and purchased a new license. Later a Panasonic and another license to have both running concurrently.

 

[Nik H]

I followed Patagonia's advice and got a simple Nokia 635 because any Lumia is GTG and purchased a new license. Later a Panasonic and another license to have both running concurrently.

Thank you...I see some good deals on the 950 but I certainly don't need to spend more than I need to

 

[Snuby642]

Sad news the cold bore won't run on android, will just run my sniper pro and stralok, they seem to resolve very close, 1 click normaly.
Was extatict to find out the gps functioned unsuported by web or cell, thanks for that!
I did run into a hassle with gps, 3 diffrent devices 1 foot apart and got a 100 foot spread on altitude.
May have to dig out the old garmin gps was +/- 1 foot just 1 more thing to carry.
I did stupidly conduct the test indoors, new battery on way for old samsung will get out asap.
All 3 samsung all 3 same program (google maps), a 1/4 moa shift at 400 yards, nothing I can't deal with just frustrating.
Using all this to make first dope card per round then adjustments to the card as range is met.

As the wind blew my grandson off the sidewalk by about 10 mils in 30 foot, i decided to save ammo today.

Want to drive a german decedent nuts, give him more than 1 balistic calculator and a beer! Lol

 

[Timo Turl]

Coldbore will probably go the way of Loadbase it’s predecessor. They’ll drop all service, support & upgrades when they move to a new version.

 

[Darkside-Six]

A lot of great info in here fellas! I've been looking at a new Ballistics solver as I use Trasol but without continued support I need to start looking at other options. I've been looking into BallisticArc as something I may try. I've heard great things about CB but my primary use will be for matches and I seldom shoot past 1000y.

Any other suggestions?

 

[tag_heuer]

I use BallisticsARC and I love it

 

[slayer 2c]

Anyone having issues exporting info to excel? My computer will not do it without file errors.

 

[sevans1965]

Good morning all,
I just purchased a copy of CB (desktop only). I want to keep a detailed database at home, and rely more on hardcopy data in the field (hunting and practical field matches like CD).

That said, I read the manual this weekend, and have a broad understanding of the system.

My first question (and forgive me if its been discussed or I failed to find my answer via "search"): how or where do I set up my scope error in the software ?

 

[sevans1965]

Good morning all,
I just purchased a copy of CB (desktop only). I want to keep a detailed database at home, and rely more on hardcopy data in the field (hunting and practical field matches like CD).

That said, I read the manual this weekend, and have a broad understanding of the system.

My first question (and forgive me if its been discussed or I failed to find my answer via "search"): how or where do I set up my scope error in the software ?

I feel like a dump $h1t, I found the answer I'm looking for on page 139 of the manual. I must of grazed over that part thinking it was the normal explanation of mils and moa !!
Although I feel like a DS, I'll leave the question up incase someone else down the road is looking for the same answer!!

 

[sevans1965]

Question about measuring bullet velocities at multiple distances: I'm not sure of the brand name of my clubs system, but we have the electronic target system for F Class/Bench rest (max range 1K yards). @lowlight conducted a training class at our range in MN Labour day weekend 2019, so he is maybe familiar with the specs.
Opinions/Guidance appreciated----- Is the average velocity reported by our electronic target system good enough data for CB ?

 

[sevans1965]

Question about measuring bullet velocities at multiple distances: I'm not sure of the brand name of my clubs system, but we have the electronic target system for F Class/Bench rest (max range 1K yards). @lowlight conducted a training class at our range in MN Labour day weekend 2019, so he is maybe familiar with the specs.
Opinions/Guidance appreciated----- Is the average velocity reported by our electronic target system good enough data for CB ?

The system our club has is "Shotmarker". I did ask the manufacturer the same question and received their reply this morning. I did ask about setup tolerances for accurate velocities which I don't have an answer yet. So for those interested, here is their reply---

Hi Steve,

This kind of question is one you have to ask me.

As far as measuring an accuracy average velocity, what's important is the frame is flat. The sensors need to be mounted exactly parallel to each other (NOT to the shooter, to each other) on a planar surface. If one sensor is twisted towards or away from the center then the velocity will be skewed accordingly.

So for precision velocity measurements you are going to want to put extra effort into your frame to ensure the brackets are mounted flat.

You need to shoot on a calm day. Wind will hurt the precision of the readings requiring you to fire many shots to settle an average.

Then, it should be within 5 fps. Theoretically it would be perfect, but we are talking about real world scenario here and the limit is how accurately you can build your frame. So the answer to your question is, it's as accurate as you care to build and test a frame to be, and can control the conditions. The sensors just measure what they get and the accuracy is dependent on where they are positioned. Error is a result of sensitivity to various factors which you may or may not be able to control.

 

[sevans1965]

Evening guys,
Sorry for the rookie questions, but I'm trying to get my head around Coldbore (desktop). Once you enter all your data from the range, is there a specific process for truing CB, like specific tools within CB, or do you adjust MV manually until elevation lines up ?

 

[sevans1965]

Anyone having issues exporting info to excel? My computer will not do it without file errors.

Mine appears to be exporting without errors (I'm using CB Desktop, Win 10 Pro, Exel 2010).

 

[slayer 2c]

Evening guys,
Sorry for the rookie questions, but I'm trying to get my head around Coldbore (desktop). Once you enter all your data from the range, is there a specific process for truing CB, like specific tools within CB, or do you adjust MV manually until elevation lines up ?

I was only able to figure out the MV, I actually used the mv to true to 800 and .Bc after that.

 

[sevans1965]

I was only able to figure out the MV, I actually used the mv to true to 800 and .Bc after that.

One of the everyday sniper podcast Frank talked about trueing, I asked the same question over there, specific to CB and tagged Frank. I'm sure he gets tagged in a shitload of posts, but if he or anyone else answers, I'll copy their reply here.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

As long as I know all the imputes are correct for the bullet profile and the rifle the only thing I will true up or adjust is the BC number. If your getting a constant speed that is proven then tweaking the speed is only a short lived bandaid. Micro adjusting the BC number is common because you may be running slower or faster then what the manufacturer of the bullets was running when testing and establishing a BC rating. Also your barrel - lands and groves may or may not be distorting the bullet as much in comparison to the manufacturers barrel that was used during testing, the more tore up the bullets gets the less BC value it will have.

Coldbore set up in a Panasonic FZ-E1 Mobile Toughpad Phone used here for the 375 and 416s we push to 3500+ yards with great results.

Cheers

 

[LastShot300]

As long as I know all the imputes are correct for the bullet profile and the rifle the only thing I will true up or adjust is the BC number. If your getting a constant speed that is proven then tweaking the speed is only a short lived bandaid. Micro adjusting the BC number is common because you may be running slower or faster then what the manufacturer of the bullets was running when testing and establishing a BC rating. Also your barrel - lands and groves may or may not be distorting the bullet as much in comparison to the manufacturers barrel that was used during testing, the more tore up the bullets gets the less BC value it will have.

Coldbore set up in a Panasonic FZ-E1 Mobile Toughpad Phone used here for the 375 and 416s we push to 3500+ yards with great results.

Cheers

+1

If I have at hand a well behaved BC and a solid MV sometimes I only need to make tiny adjustments to the DC when shooting ELR. The DC is a fantastic mechanism to develop a custom curve.

 

[NY700]

is coldbore releasing updates for its library. its been a while since ive gotten into coldbore been using Arc.

 

[LastShot300]

is coldbore releasing updates for its library. its been a while since ive gotten into coldbore been using Arc.

My current version is 1.0.10.0 and libray is 1.0.9.0

 

[NY700]

My current version is 1.0.10.0 and libray is 1.0.9.0

so I. The past I had to write the company and they sent me a link to update. Is that still the case?

 

[LastShot300]

so I. The past I had to write the company and they sent me a link to update. Is that still the case?

Sometimes the link got messed up and out by some email filters, so I write Patagonia in case some time has gone by and they send me the link