Colt 1911 identification help?

[southerngolfer]

My buddy’s brother passed away and he asked me to help find some info/pricing on this 1911 for him. He told me …..

He was CO of his reserve unit during Vietnam era. I thought he said it was his service pistol? That’s all I know.

I can take more photos if needed. Thank you

 

[RONIN45230]

Aftermarket Essex frame, Colt slide and grips…… who knows what’s inside…..

 

[rjacobs]

https://www.m1911.org//essex.htm

Cast frame...

400-500 bucks MAYBE if its functional and isnt filled with crap parts.

Thats probably one of those "sentimental" guns that you keep knowing its not worth much.

 

[Bigfatcock]

$350 all day long. It’s a mixmaster.

 

[n2ishun]

And....there's a crack straight down the mainspring cover.

 

[southerngolfer]

Appreciate any and all info hide. I’ll pass it on to my buddy

 

[rjacobs]

Were the original colt slides that rough in texture?

Or was that gun a bucket of rust at one point and then was blasted...

 

[BigTex]

And....there's a crack straight down the mainspring cover.

Probably cracked it when that did that nice texture job with a center punch.

 

[bluegrasspicker]

I'd advise my buddy to not do anything with it for a while. Eventually I bet he shoots it on his brother's birthday and thinks about good times.

 

[southerngolfer]

I'd advise my buddy to not do anything with it for a while. Eventually I bet he shoots it on his brother's birthday and thinks about good times.

more than likely he will probably just pass it on to his boy bc he really doesn't have any interest in firearms.

 

[retrieverman]

Around here the asking price on a “service” 1911 would be in the $1500-2000 range. I have no idea if any of them actually sell though.

 

[Son of Dorn]

And....there's a crack straight down the mainspring cover.

I'm not sure that's a crack. There's a line on the other side too. I think that's where the texture, probably serrations, originally started but it's been ground down and stippled. Not 100% 'cause mine has a knurled mainspring housing, but the knurling doesn't go from edge to edge and starts in the same place as those lines. And that housing looks really squared off and short versus mine, so I think it was trimmed down.

ETA See what I mean re: the mainspring housing on this one (also Essex frame/Colt slide/mixed parts):

 

[rjacobs]

Around here the asking price on a “service” 1911 would be in the $1500-2000 range. I have no idea if any of them actually sell though.

thats probably not a "service" 1911 though I believe is the point a few people are trying to make.

 

[cas6969]

I see something like that for what it is/was, a piece of shooting / gunsmithing history, when there was no 1911 market, new Colts were about the only game in town. But surplus parts were cheap, and you buy an Essex frame and assemble one yourself. I have an affinity and appreciation for things like this. Which is I why I always seem to over pay for bubba'd junk that nobody else wants, then get stuck with them, or end up selling them for 25% what I paid.

 

[TexPatriot]

Essex frames w/Colt slides were not uncommon back in my day. One of the neatest old Essex/Colt beaters I know of was carried by a guy that had a safe full of 1911s to choose from.

Your buddy needs to just hang on to it.

 

[cas6969]

$350 all day long. It’s a mixmaster.

Around here that would be $950 and they would assure you it was 100% as issued USGI. WW2, WW1, maybe even Civil War era.

 

[retrieverman]

thats probably not a "service" 1911 though I believe is the point a few people are trying to make.

I seriously doubt the ones I’m talking about are true “service“ 1911’s either, but that doesn’t stop someone from making claims and asking a ridiculous price.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Around here that would be $950 and they would assure you it was 100% as issued USGI. WW2, WW1, maybe even Civil War era.

Lol. Look how the frame is ground around the grip safety.

 

[hlee]

I got a Rack Grade 1911 from the CMP (Remington Rand slide on Colt frame), with substantially less wear and pitting- and no garage stippling- for $850. I'd price the OP's pistol below that...

 

[TexPatriot]

I got a Rack Grade 1911 from the CMP (Remington Rand slide on Colt frame), with substantially less wear and pitting- and no garage stippling- for $850. I'd price the OP's pistol below that...

I'm not sure Essex was in business in the 60's, early 70's during the Vietnam era and 1911s with Essex cast frames were ever formerly issued by the military.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Were the original colt slides that rough in texture?

Or was that gun a bucket of rust at one point and then was blasted...

Not that rough. This gun is a 1914 production date and doesn’t even come close to looking that rough.

 

[hlee]

I'm not sure Essex was in business in the 60's, early 70's during the Vietnam era and 1911s with Essex cast frames were ever formerly issued by the military.

My point was just that I have a mixmaster on a colt frame with actual military provenance, with less wear, that was purchased for $850. I think the OP's pistol is worth less than that value, given the wear, cast frame, and lack of provenance.

 

[TexPatriot]

My point was just that I have a mixmaster on a colt frame with actual military provenance, with less wear, that was purchased for $850. I think the OP's pistol is worth less than that value, given the wear, cast frame, and lack of provenance.

I understand. My statement was completely unrelated.

 

[ssc45]

Just some random info that may or may not be worth looking at:

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/essex-1911-frame-information.376613/

Cheers, Steve

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Its still cool! But, yes, an Essex frame isn't great! As has been mentioned above, it is a sort of vernacular piece for a point in time when 1911's were just... old pistols. And you could get parts from Numrich or even Bannermans for almost nothing and put a gun together on the kitchen table.

I'd say worth a bit more than the $300 -350 folks are talking about. Simply because it is a shooter and representative piece. Perhaps 600 - 700 just because it's hard to find a shooter 1911 or even a parts kit for that kind of money.

Neat gun and thanks for posting!

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

Hey OP, give us a shot of the barrel hood if you can please. Just want to see what kind of parts are on the upper

 

[Son of Dorn]

Not to derail the thread but my 1911A1 ('43 Ithaca production) has a block numeral 5 on the right side of the trigger guard. Is that an inspection number or something else? The Atwood inspection stamp, the P proof stamp, and the Ordnance Department stamp I know, but the random #5 not so much.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Not to derail the thread but my 1911A1 ('43 Ithaca production) has a block numeral 5 on the right side of the trigger guard. Is that an inspection number or something else? The Atwood inspection stamp, the P proof stamp, and the Ordnance Department stamp I know, but the random #5 not so much.

Pretty sure it is an S, not a 5. Should mean pistol was meant for commercial sales and not gubment which would have a G there

 

[Son of Dorn]

Pretty sure it is an S, not a 5. Should mean pistol was meant for commercial sales and not gubment which would have a G there

Nope, definitely a 5, and there's the US property marking/Army marking anyway. Pistol was given to my dad by an Army officer who used it in WWII and Korea.

Perhaps a final inspection marking from Colt, since this was part of the Ithaca contract?

 

[roostercogburn98]

View attachment 7960921

Ahh dang ok. Maybe a rack number then? Mine does not have anything like that

 

[Son of Dorn]

Ahh dang ok. Maybe a rack number then? Mine does not have anything like that

Oh hmmm could be?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Oh hmmm could be?

Is it an Arsenal rebuild? Maybe spent some time after .mil service with a pd, prison, or some other civil service org.

 

[southerngolfer]

Hey OP, give us a shot of the barrel hood if you can please. Just want to see what kind of parts are on the upper

 

[Son of Dorn]

Is it an Arsenal rebuild? Maybe spent some time after .mil service with a pd, prison, or some other civil service org.

I don't believe so. My dad said that the officer who gave it to him had kept it since leaving the military sometime after the Korean War. Has the original holster, too. It's a relatively low serial for Ithaca and while it MAY have been rebuilt after WWII, I'm not convinced. Small parts (hammer, mainspring housing, trigger, slide-stop) appear to be Colt style ones with the knurling on, but since it's such a low number, Ithaca might've used existing Colt parts? I couldn't say. Slide is a Korean War-era replacement "hard slide" by Colt. I can't find any indication of arsenal rebuild marks.

Two Ithacas listed on Simpson Ltd's website (one sold, one for sale) both have a number there. One has an 8, the other appears to be a 9; the 8 has a higher serial number than mine, and the possible-9 has an even high serial. A number of Colt pistols have a number in the same place, usually a double-digit. I'm leaning towards it being a Colt quality-control inspection number for finished pistols.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I don't believe so. My dad said that the officer who gave it to him had kept it since leaving the military sometime after the Korean War. Has the original holster, too. It's a low serial for Ithaca (within the first hundred pistols) and while it MAY have been rebuilt after WWII, I'm not convinced. Small parts (hammer, mainspring housing, trigger, slide-stop) appear to be Colt style ones with the knurling on, but since it's such a low number, Ithaca might've used existing Colt parts? I couldn't say. Slide is a Korean War-era replacement "hard slide" by Colt. I can't find any indication of arsenal rebuild marks.

Two Ithacas listed on Simpson Ltd's website (one sold, one for sale) both have a number there. One has an 8, the other appears to be a 9; the 8 has a higher serial number than mine, and the possible-9 has an even high serial. A number of Colt pistols have a number in the same place, usually a double-digit. I'm leaning towards it being a Colt quality-control inspection number for finished pistols.

Serial number is below 900k i assume? Been reading some and may be the numbers didn’t appear until the 900k serial number range. Supposedly it’s the assemblers stamp.

ETA: Arsenal rebuild didn’t mean complete parts swap a lot of times. Sometimes it was just an inspections and reassembly. Yours would have a SA stamp on the frame some if it was a rebuild

 

[Son of Dorn]

Serial number is below 900k i assume? Been reading some and may be the numbers didn’t appear until the 900k serial number range. Supposedly it’s the assemblers stamp.

ETA: Arsenal rebuild didn’t mean complete parts swap a lot of times. Sometimes it was just an inspections and reassembly. Yours would have a SA stamp on the frame some if it was a rebuild

My apologies, I made an error in reading the serial number. I thought it was within the first 100; it's within the first 2K lol. But out of 60K pistols, that's still pretty low! I amended the post.

But yes, below 900K in the mid 858K range. I can't find a single stamp other than the ones mentioned. Unless it's under the grips. And since the slide is one of the late-40s/50s hard slides, it doesn't actually have any military markings. Just the Colt stuff.

 

[roostercogburn98]

My apologies, I made an error in reading the serial number. I thought it was within the first 100; it's within the first 2K lol. But out of 60K pistols, that's still pretty low! I amended the post.

But yes, below 900K in the mid 858K range. I can't find a single stamp other than the ones mentioned. Unless it's under the grips. And since the slide is one of the late-40s/50s hard slides, it doesn't actually have any military markings. Just the Colt stuff.

I’m gonna go with some sort of rack number or tracking number for accountability. My best guess

 

[Son of Dorn]

I’m gonna go with some sort of rack number or tracking number for accountability. My best guess

On Colts the ## number there is an assembler's number, apparently. I'm guessing something similar for this one.

 

[hlee]

I would expect a rack number to be more prominent. Mine has a rack number in white paint (large block numbers) on one of the grip panels. It also has a “53” on the trigger guard. The rack number on the grip, if I remember correctly, is 23.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Just had a chance to strip it. Only other marking I found on the frame was the flaming bomb inside the dust cover. But the barrel is a Hi Standard. Still leaning towards an assembler's number since as @hlee mentions, I'd expect a rack number to be painted on the grip or else electropencilled into the metal like how USMC did with the MEU(SOC) serial numbers for slide/frame fit or, y'know, something along those lines.