Sidearms & Scatterguns Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

[gjantzer]

Have a chance to buy either a Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom tomorrow at a pretty good price without having to pay shipping charges, transfer fees and background check fees. Having a tough time deciding between the two.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtRailGun.aspx

http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/tactical-ii/tactical-custom-hd-ii

I understand that the Colt Rail gun is on an "80 action" with the built in firing pin safety and have heard that it adds about 1/2 lb of trigger pull. I have very little experience shooting 1911's so I am not sure if this a big deal or not. Input would help. I also understand that the Kimber has the firing pin safety but the safety mechanism is removed prior to trigger pull.

I have heard that the Kimber's are better built guns and that you pay extra for the little colt logo on the side of the gun. I am also unsure if the rail on the Colt is something that I will ever use or if it will bug me in the future. Does the rail kill the classic elegant lines of the 1911 pistol?

Anyone have an input on which direction to go for my first 1911?

On a side note, I was able to pick up one of the browning 1911-22 pistols today. It will be sitting in my gun safe until my first born (born in 2011) is ready for it!

thanks for the input.

 

[Ellerjinspect]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

You can't go wrong with a Kimber. My 2 cents. I liked mine right out of the box. I have not messed with the new Colts but have heard good things.

 

[skatz11]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I'd go for the Colt. I was in the similar position this summer when I won a raffle and had a choice between a SS Colt (80 series) or a commander sized Kimber (not sure of the model). I chose the Colt without hesitation. The only reason I chose it is because I've always wanted one. They're the original manufacturer, and that means something to me.

After the fact I did a bunch of 1911 research and I think I made the right choice. Since you are spending some hard earned money on if I suggest doing some major research before purchasing. Check out the 10-8 Articles and Blog.

 

[Glock45]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

For the most part, both will serve you well. I currently have a Colt Combat Elite, hasn't been a problem at all. I had to drift the sights to my sight preference, but that's it.

I've owned Kimbers in the past as well. The Kimbers I had did not cause me issues.

I believe Colt will hold it's value later one. It's amazing how much influence that little pony can have on people.

If it were me, I'd go Colt. Be aware though that railed 1911's are a tad more troublesome to find holsters for. Not impossible, but can be tricky.

-G45

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

if you want a kimber with a rail look for the rl in the name. you need rail holsters, some non railed will fit the railed frame, some not. just a reason to have one of each

 

[Guest]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

Yes, the Colt has the Series 80 firing pin safety. Most experts will tell you that compared to others (Kimber/Schwartz), it is the best of the bunch. Brownells also sells the appropriate spacers should you want it to be of the Series 70 variety w/o the fps.

I have owned 11 Colt 1911's at this point and was in brief possession of 2 Kimbers a while back (as I wanted to see what all the fuss was about). Neither Kimber would run reliably out of the box. I was later informed of a "break-in period" by a Kimber user. IMHO, a 1911 should run right from the jump and then be tuned to the intended purpose (be it reliability, carry, accuracy, competition). Since that time, the volume of dissatisfied Kimber users has only increased.

I love Colts as my base for a build, but they are far from perfect. I have had a few that were a little rough around the edges, but ALL (of those purchased new/or like new) would function reliably out of the box.

If it were me, I'd get the Colt, and in time get proper sights, trigger job, and reliability package.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I'd go Colt, Kimber makes some less then perfect sidearms on occasion.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I would avoid both of them. What I would recommend in their place would depend on budget and rail versus no rail.

 

[Who Dat]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

Go with the Colt and Safariland makes holsters for it, anything that will fit the Springfield will fit the Colt. Our department had Kimber and then we scrapped them due to issues with them. It is mandatory to follow the owners manual for Kimber especialy changing the recoil spring in it.

 

[smokshwn]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I am not necessarily a fan of either but if the choice is only those two go with the Colt. As of late Kimber's reputation and advertising budget far outstrip their actually quality and value.

If you are not fenced in to these two guns, I would seriously consider an STI Trojan or Spartan. They would be exceptionally good choices for a first 1911.

 

[chaser_2332]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

<------- will not own another kimber

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I have done some research into the STI Trojan but hear over and over again that the STI pistols will not cycle hollow point ammo well at all. This is going to be my primary defense weapon, so a 1911 that does not process every type of round that I put in it is hard to consider.

 

[c4xplsv]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

Similar decision at one time. I got the Colt XSE Goverment. Added some miltac grips and a nighthawk trigger. Great price on the colt ($825 at the time) and its been 100% reliable.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gjantzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have done some research into the STI Trojan but hear over and over again that the STI pistols will not cycle hollow point ammo well at all. This is going to be my primary defense weapon, so a 1911 that does not process every type of round that I put in it is hard to consider. </div></div>

STI has a lifetime warranty if you can manage to get one that is unreliable, which is extremely unlikely.

$850 for the above colt with that terrible beavertail is a travesty.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

here is 5 minutes worth of research into STI pistols not cycling hollow points:

http://ezine.m1911.org/STIRogue.htm

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=95105

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=121408

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-508929.html

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=313490

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110314070507AASnnfd

STI also makes an AR-15! You guessed it........reported failure to load in the AR-15 too:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/15159/sti-tactical-sporting-rifle/

The vast majority of people seem to recommend STI, but a 1911 that will not load and fire hollow point rounds completely reliably has no place as a personal defense weapon. I am wanting a 1911 right now in .45 but am not sure I am willing to risk my life on STI's track record of failing to function on hollow points. Are all of the 1911's in the same boat? If so, I see why people swear by Glocks. I'd love to get an STI Trojan but if it will not cycle and fire hollow points at the exact moment i need it to it could be tragic.

 

[tickled pink]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I just ordered an American Classic II .45 ACP which a friend has and has never had a hiccup and cost around $450. Here is a review read it closely:

http://www.gunblast.com/Firestorm-1911Deluxe.htm

40gt

 

[Who Dat]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I have a Colt Enhanced Goverment Model Series 80, I have had it for 20 years and it shoots hollow points with no issues. I upgraded it with a new grip safety, ambi-safety, speed trigger, MMC sights, forward cocking serrations and one piece guide rod. No work on the slide or barrel, also have a Surefire MRO7 tactical light rail for it for my X200 light. 1911 products are for people who shoot and are going to keep up on the maintanence of their weapon. If you want no maintanence go with a S&W M&P or Glock. STI is the weapon to have if you have the money. If it does not feed that is an issue to be taken up with STI right away. Colt has not listen to its shooters for along time case in point look how long it has taken them to come out with the Rail. I asked them at the Shot Show when they were coming out with a high capacity 1911 like the STI and they really had no interest in producing one. As I stated to them Law Enforcement has changed bad guys are not carrying 6 and 7 round shooters anymore. Stay away from Para, Taurus makes a damn good 1911 with a lot of bells and whistles for a hec of a decent price and it has a life time warranty.

 

[MQXL308]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

How about a Kimber tle rl

 

[leprechaun]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

One word answer....COLT hands down

 

[Birddog1911]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I've owned Colts and Kimbers. I'd buy the Colt in a second over the Kimber. The last Colt that I purchased was the re-introduced Combat Elite, and other than the rear sight needing a touch of loc-tite, it performed flawlessly.

I would not be afraid to consider the higher end Springfields, either.

 

[coryj]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I'd vote Colt. The 80 series fire control group is the lesser of two evils compared to the Kimber Schwartz safety system.

 

[HPCR59]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chaser_2332</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><------- will not own another kimber </div></div>

Care to elaborate?

 

[Temper]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I was in the same situation as gjantzer. I wanted a railed 1911 that was good out of the box and was under 1000. It was between
the Colt Rail Gun, Springfield OPERATOR and the Kimber Warrior.

After extensive research on each the Kimber was gone. Too many MIM parts, especially when your paying 1000 bucks for a gun with as many MIM parts as a Taurus. Another factor was the in-the-white barrels that rusted like crazy, tons of reliability issues out of the box with less than spectacular customer service quickly eliminated the Kimber. While the Springfield's aren't bad guns, they again have a lot of MIM parts, aren't made in the USA and Springfields aren't exactly perfect out of the box at times. From the info I gathered, the Colt seems the best out of the box. The slightly looser fit aided in reliability, the national match SS barrel provided great accuracy and being made in the USA with only 3 MIM parts if was hard denying the Colt of my hard earned money. I have yet to encounter one single malfunction in the ~1500 rounds I've fired through my Colt.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

Colt .

Stay away from Kimber .

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

Two words... Sig Sauer. Mine is a Scorpion. I paid $799 for it. But if you don't like the color look at the Tac Pac. I've seen them go for even less on popular auction sites.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

You guys have sure made it easy to pass on the Kimber. I am now down to two choices: The Colt Rail Gun or the STI Trojan. Both right around $1050. Both hand finished right here in the US. The Colt has the 80 series firing pin block. Anyone know if the STI has something similar? Those of you that would recommend the Colt over the STI, is it because of the little pony on the side or an actual quality difference? I am also going to be buying a .22lr conversion kit for my 1911. I am not sure if STI is still making one or not. Input on the .22 conversion kits would be appreciated also.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gjantzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys have sure made it easy to pass on the Kimber. I am now down to two choices: The Colt Rail Gun or the STI Trojan. Both right around $1050. Both hand finished right here in the US. The Colt has the 80 series firing pin block. Anyone know if the STI has something similar? Those of you that would recommend the Colt over the STI, is it because of the little pony on the side or an actual quality difference? I am also going to be buying a .22lr conversion kit for my 1911. I am not sure if STI is still making one or not. Input on the .22 conversion kits would be appreciated also. </div></div>

Do you want a railed gun or not? It'd seem that's a pretty important feature for those who want it.

STIs do not have any additional safety devices. They are as Browning intended them in that regard.

There is a <span style="text-decoration: underline">remarkable </span>difference in quality between an STI and a Colt. A factory STI is about as tight as any mass-produced gun can be. A Colt is going to be sloppy.

The frames are essentially the same, so any .22 kit made for one should fit on the other. 1911 .22 kits, though, have varying degrees of reliability. I would usually suggest just getting another gun; there are .22 caliber 1911s for under $300.

 

[M21guy]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I do have a Railgun. It had some issues, more so than the rest of the world it seems. True my luck sucks, If I didn't have bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all. Here is what I can tell you with mine.

I've had mine for a year almost a year now. I haven't shot it all that much, but I'm sitting with close to 2k through it.

Right away I had issues with the thumb safety. It was sent back and replaced by Colt. The new one is better, but it does not have positive feel. It is very weak. I do not like it.

Second trip back was to correct the barrel to slide fit. It would hang up on the barrel hood going into battery. Simple enough, but Colt took the liberty to loosen up the slide to frame fit. Now it is loose and rattles. I was pretty pissed about that. They also tweaked the extractor which I ended up adjusting myself keeping the brass from flying into my face. I smoothed out the barrel hood and got it pretty reliable now. I still need to correct the slide to frame fit they f'ed up.

Trigger could use a little going over. Getting out the creep and roughness would be nice.At least it isn't way too heavy out of the box.

The sights on it are not that great. Just painted on white dots that fall out. I'd plan on changing them out.

Typical Colt it has sharp edges. Most don't bother me, but the relief under the trigger guard is uncomfortable. It is sharp there and should be smoothed out.

What is missing on the pistol is it's front strap checkered. I really wish it had that done. So eventually I'd like for that to be addressed.

It's a nice enough pistol. I think I just got a Friday gun. Definitely no one gave two shits when they made mine or worked on it. I've seen others that where far better and were nice. So I guess best advice is to really inspect anything you buy. I should have been more informed, and had two or three of these sitting in front of me when I bought this one.

I should add I sent it back to Colt the second time at roughly 1400 rounds down the pipe. At that time I had 2-3 failures to chamber due to that barrel hood issue. I got it back and saw the problem still was there, so I took it upon myself to correct it. Since then no reliabily issues have occured. So not too bad. I will be aquiring more mags. Probably CM power mags. I had good luck with them on the Delta. So that is it.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I would go Colt over STI any day of the week .

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

it seems like there are two class of buyers. Those that want the little pony on the side of the gun and those that want the best possible firearm you can get for the money. What I have been finding is that the people who support buying Colt do not support it with a legitimate argument other than "colt is the original". I think I'll go with the STI and come back for a Colt when I'm looking for more of a safe queen.

 

[M21guy]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gjantzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it seems like there are two class of buyers. Those that want the little pony on the side of the gun and those that want the best possible firearm you can get for the money. What I have been finding is that the people who support buying Colt do not support it with a legitimate argument other than "colt is the original". I think I'll go with the STI and come back for a Colt when I'm looking for more of a safe queen. </div></div>

I suppose there is other reasons. STI might not be something available at the local level where others might be. STI might not be on a departments approved list. Or you could really dislike Texas. There is an infinite number of reasons why someone chooses anything. Try explaining why you're dating someone. There is a lot of "why" anyone does anything, or buys what they do.

Of the big name brands I have Colt, Kimber, Springfield, S&W Wilson, and now Nighthawk available to me at the shop. Anyone one of them could be fine, some better than others. Why I chose the Colt I have now is this; the majority of the departments I'm applying for in the area, that allow 1911's, recognises Colt and it's approved for duty carry. It's pretty simple.
Personal carry, something awesome, it's probably going to be a Nighthawk.

Unless you buy a full on custom, you got to assume, any 1911 you buy is going to require a personal touch, fitting, options and such. Colt let me down a little, but the platform is solid. It will eventually be a nice duty pistol when it's gone through. Just like something else could be.

I like the pony, I'm a Colt fan, but don't assume there are just two classes of buyers in the 1911 market. The market is flooded with 1911s and parts for 1911s. So many chooses, and so many reasons.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

M21Guy - nice! I appreciate the response. 99 times out of 100 Colt supporters just chime in with something like:
"just go Colt and never look back"
"Colt 7 days a week"
"Colt is the original"

People supporting Colt almost never back it up with anything other than Colt's name recognition. Your post shed light on a REAL reason why Colt might be a better choice than other manufacturers. Thank you.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

I don't know why people think Colt is the original anyway.

 

[M21guy]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know why people think Colt is the original anyway. </div></div>

Colt was the original and only manufacture of the 1911 pistol at first, but WWI came along and they couldn't keep up. So the government owned Springfield Armory started building them also. Since then everyone and their brother builds the 1911 pistol. Things have been modified, things have change from the original design spec, but people say that because Colt has been doing it since day one. Not to say Colt is better. It's just the truth really is that Colt is the original manufacture of this type of pistol.

 

[stockdoc]

Re: Colt Government Rail or a Kimber Tactical Custom?

"Colt was the original and only manufacture of the 1911 pistol at first, but WWI came along and they couldn't keep up. So the government owned Springfield Armory started building them also. Since then everyone and their brother builds the 1911 pistol. Things have been modified, things have change from the original design spec, but people say that because Colt has been doing it since day one. Not to say Colt is better. It's just the truth really is that Colt is the original manufacture of this type of pistol."

+1 on above plus, Colt has had its issued over the years, most of them related to poor management and bad relations with their union employees.

However Colt is the ONLY manufacturer that test fires and proofs their firearms, to include their M4 rifles. True, not perfect, but way better than the other handguns mentioned here in the same class. And they're built by Americans, here in America. If that matters to you.

So, it's not just the word "colt" on the slide or that they're the original. Also, if possible check out the latest Surefire Tac magazine feature article on Colt. Explains a little better what's gone on at that factory over the years. Hope this helps