A dozen C-17s full of our best guys with common sense ROE this shit would be over in a week….PROVE ME WRONG!
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This is the problem, we don't let the dog off the leash.because we cannot bomb those spaces (unannounced) without violating some international treaty
You're half wrong. When we are there they are all poor innocent civilians. They are only Taliban goat fucking extremists when we leave. Thus the question is when will we let them get back to their evil ways.A dozen C-17s full of our best guys with common sense ROE this shit would be over in a week….PROVE ME WRONG!
How does bombing downtown Kabul get you 10.000 US civilians behind enemy lines evacuated ? Many of these folks are not even in Kabul and those that are, are spread all around hunkering down . So you can't even make an armed excursion outside the fence to go and pick them up.This is the problem, we don't let the dog off the leash.
Ok so maybe a better question is why the hell do we have 10K US civilians stuck over there didn't they know we were pulling out?How does bombing downtown Kabul get you 10.000 US civilians behind enemy lines evacuated ?
We haven't perminantly (meaning -- stamped out of relevance and ability to rebirth) won against any force than hides inside of civilian spaces because wecannotwon't bomb those spaces...
Dude,wake up because carpet bombing went out in 1970's
Jane you ignorant slut. 1775 called and wants its meme backA dozen C-17s full of our best guys with common sense ROE this shit would be over in a week….PROVE ME WRONG!
ROFLSeems to me this is an opportunity. Surround Kabul and set up an outer perimeter and hunt down all the Taliban that are in Kabul. Lots of the leadership in there now. Yes it would be a bloody shit show, but probably get more of the Taliban leaders than at any other time. Kill them all, take back all the weapons and destroy anything we dont want to take back home, blow ammo in place. Get everyone out and leave again. Maybe I watch too much t.v.
Im sure the 82nd and 101st airborne could drop in outside the city and land 20 C-17 at the airport full of ass kickers!
Yes, you watch too much TV. We all do. We all still continue to have hope.Seems to me this is an opportunity. Surround Kabul and set up an outer perimeter and hunt down all the Taliban that are in Kabul. Lots of the leadership in there now. Yes it would be a bloody shit show, but probably get more of the Taliban leaders than at any other time. Kill them all, take back all the weapons and destroy anything we dont want to take back home, blow ammo in place. Get everyone out and leave again. Maybe I watch too much t.v.
Im sure the 82nd and 101st airborne could drop in outside the city and land 20 C-17 at the airport full of ass kickers!
Ahhh...somebody that understands!!! Thank you Doc!!!!!!!!!!!!Jane you ignorant slut. 1775 called and wants its meme back
There was a mid-level officer in the British Army who was quoted as saying he could put down the rebellion with 5000 (or perhaps 3000) well trained soldiers. ( i can look up the quote for you)
How'd that work out for him.
Napoleon: Russia.
Napoleon: Spain
Britain: Afghanistan (19th Century).
How to win in Afghanistan: Put the country (U.S) on war footing. Instate the draft and rationing. Send 10 million men and woman and backed with our full airforce (sorry Navy, you can give em a ride, but the stan be Landlocked). Dig up W.T. Sherman and say "GO get em hoss"
Until you do that, we're just mental masturbating. You have to want to win. And that means killing every last man woman and child that moves if you have to. (see Japan, 1941-1945, also German 1917-18 and Germany, 1942-1945, Civil War later years). Get out the flame throwers and go cave to cave. Flame it, charge it, blow it. Move on. When they've had enough they will submit. Or you kill them all. Otherwise, stop wasting my time.
Isn't this what Ross Perot did when Iran took over?Anyway we can get together a group of veterans that would be willing to go back and get our citizens back.
Would have a great influence back here and would be great to get our people back alive.
I'd be willing to go. Just dont have the financial means to start this.
Doc
Isn't this what Ross Perot did when Iran took over
I’m in.Anyway we can get together a group of veterans that would be willing to go back and get our citizens back.
Would have a great influence back here and would be great to get our people back alive.
I'd be willing to go. Just dont have the financial means to start this.
Doc
I'd be in, and I have some friends that would too, but it would take someone like Trump to get us there and more importantly, Get us outI’m in.
He has the money to pull off something like that.Sounds like a job for Mike Lindell.
Trump has actually already gotten my brother out of the sandbox once before, many years ago, but things were different then. That was in accordance with the state dept.Sounds like a job for Mike Lindell.
Anyway we can get together a group of veterans that would be willing to go back and get our citizens back.
Would have a great influence back here and would be great to get our people back alive.
I'd be willing to go. Just dont have the financial means to start this.
Doc
I'd be in, and I have some friends that would too, but it would take someone like Trump to get us there and more importantly, Get us out
Still hard to believe that dumbass biden did what he did. Of course, just think of the Brass that actually carried it out... it's so sickening.Panjshir Valley?
The acting President of Afghanistan has raised the Flag of the Northern Alliance there once again and is collecting fighters.
Might be a place to set up shop and/or send support.
Reports are coming in that those Afghan Army soldiers still willing to fight are starting to collect there to resist the Taliban.
First,Our entire combat philosophy of 'nation building' needs to die a fiery death, which ironically, I think it may just have. it doesn't work. It will never work. There was never any actual plan or prior performance that said that it even COULD work. Yet, that was the plan.
This is where the shittastic ROE began. Don't kill 'the wrong people' because it would then upset the 'good' people. We doubled down on that idiocy when we embraced COIN as anything more than a pie in the sky theory that 'could' work, just like communism; yet in actual real life practice, will absolutely never work. Yet, that was Plan A, literally.
First,
The problem with COIN in the American military, is that most people in our own military are often poorly educated about it. Most only know what it is from the manuals which restricted most of their material to HAM and cost/benefit theory.
Julius Caesar, Pol Pot, General Sherman, Kemal Ataturk, Napoleon, Hafez al-Assad, Stalin and even Saddam Hussein all had successful COIN operations. Even Machiavelli and Clausewitz had some commentary on it.
Genghis Khan's and his successors methods appear to be the only successful example of counter insurgency operations that proved to be successful in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think you are specifically referring to the United States COIN theories of HAM and cost/benefit theory. If so, then I agree these ideas need serious reevaluation, but it should be noted, that they are the only ones we have formulated that allow us to maintain the political will of our populace to support the war effort. Scorched Earth policies tend to repel American sensibilities.
Second,
Its odd that you are advocating that the "Nation Building Strategy" doesn't work, when the theory was created by George C. Marshall and executed by Dwight D. Eisenhower immediately after WWII. Its roots can be traced to the Reconstruction Period in the American South. Last I checked we still have troops stationed and bases open in German and Japan. It looks to have worked pretty well there.
I've seen you make the point elsewhere in this forum that the basic societal fundamentals were in place in those countries that allowed it to thrive, but I disagree with your assessment that the concept should be thrown out altogether. Maybe more of just asking the simple question, "Hey can it work in this 3rd world country?" prior to implementation in the future.
One important part you're forgetting here; Germany and Japan were destroyed and gave a formal surrender when nation building began. When we showed up in Afghanistan, all the way until 20 years later, the enemy was always actively at war with us. Huge difference.
There was also an engagement that we did a version of COIN again with an active enemy with the same results we've seen in Afghanistan; Vietnam.
Step 1 of COIN even remotely working, maybe, sometimes, allegedly; the active enemy needs to be destroyed and/or has to have surrendered.
COIN is a complimentary philosophy to winning/fighting a war by turning the inhabitants away from aiding/joining/agreeing with the enemy; not the main way of fighting it. It's like saying I'm going to win this fist fight with love.