For those who have experience with both scopes how do you compare the two scopes. mainly from an optical standpoint.
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Rifle Scopes Compare Steiner M5xi military 5-25 x 56 vs. SB PMII 5-25 x56
- Thread starter stradibarrius
- Start date
I have never owned a Steiner, just looked through them in stores and shot one or two over the years on other people's rifles. I don't have an educated opinion.
I do own multiple S&B 5-25s, however, and considering you can pick one up for as low as $2195 right now at places like Mile High, I wouldn't even consider a Steiner. The S&B will knock your socks off.
I do own multiple S&B 5-25s, however, and considering you can pick one up for as low as $2195 right now at places like Mile High, I wouldn't even consider a Steiner. The S&B will knock your socks off.
I have owned both. For the price, Steiner has good glass and good illumination on the reticle. But the turrets are questionable. You might get a winner or might get a loser. You never know. I currently have 2 S&B PM2. They are about $800-$1000 more, but the glass is better and I like the Gen 2XR reticle. The turrets track every time and the parallax adjustment is much better. The illumination on the reticle is pretty dim. But, I would pay the extra $ every time.
I think it is a personal preference. I own both, and to me they are comparable. I mean, the gold standard, IMHO, of 5-25x scopes is the S&B PMII, by which all other 5-25x scopes are compared.
I am a tactical scope guy, and I disagree that there is anything "questionable" about the M5Xi turrets. The T5Xi had turret issues a year or two back (which have been fixed), but I have never heard that on the M5Xi. As to the glass being "dull," I suppose that is subjective. I have not seen that. The M5Xi is made in Germany, like the S&B, and is a very popular scope in Europe, and also has been adopted by German and US military, as has the S&B, which speaks both to durability and quality. Bill Geissele has chosen it for his new military rifle. Also, as to price, the two are quite comperable. I am not sure where the "$800 to $1,000" price difference comes from.
You can pick-up a basic reticle S&B, as noted, online in the $2,200 to $2,400 range, but as you move to the military low-profile turrets and different reticles, the price on the S&B goes up, as does the Steiner.
I recently took on both brands, as a dealer, so I have some exposure to market and pricing. Also, I do own and use both brands personally. From a personal perspective, in the mid-magnification area, I like the Steiner 3-15x better than any other scope, although the S&B 3-20x is a very close second (although, at 20x, I am not sure it is mid-mag). On the long-range, I do prefer the S&B 5-25x, but, again, from my perspective, the reasons are all personal preference and not quality or craftsmanship. I suppose more design.
They are very, very comparable, to me.
I am a tactical scope guy, and I disagree that there is anything "questionable" about the M5Xi turrets. The T5Xi had turret issues a year or two back (which have been fixed), but I have never heard that on the M5Xi. As to the glass being "dull," I suppose that is subjective. I have not seen that. The M5Xi is made in Germany, like the S&B, and is a very popular scope in Europe, and also has been adopted by German and US military, as has the S&B, which speaks both to durability and quality. Bill Geissele has chosen it for his new military rifle. Also, as to price, the two are quite comperable. I am not sure where the "$800 to $1,000" price difference comes from.
You can pick-up a basic reticle S&B, as noted, online in the $2,200 to $2,400 range, but as you move to the military low-profile turrets and different reticles, the price on the S&B goes up, as does the Steiner.
I recently took on both brands, as a dealer, so I have some exposure to market and pricing. Also, I do own and use both brands personally. From a personal perspective, in the mid-magnification area, I like the Steiner 3-15x better than any other scope, although the S&B 3-20x is a very close second (although, at 20x, I am not sure it is mid-mag). On the long-range, I do prefer the S&B 5-25x, but, again, from my perspective, the reasons are all personal preference and not quality or craftsmanship. I suppose more design.
They are very, very comparable, to me.
I have 5x25 PMII & MX5i in 3x15 both with the same Horus reticle. The glass is very comparable, I like the MX5i turret a little better than the S&B mtc, also the second rotation indication on the MX5i is the cake. That being said my go to is the S&B because of the 25x is useful on paper, small targets, kyl and targets that don't require a lot of panning. You would probably be happy with either being both tier 1 euro scopes, I would get the features you want at the best value between the two.
I have had limited time behind the S&B 5-25 next to my M5xi but was able to do an in depth comparison with my S&B 3-20.
Glass was very comparable. I think the resolution was actually better on the M5xi while the S&B had better contrast and CA. I could have the resolution and contrast backwards but the S&B definitely had less CA.
Glass was very comparable. I think the resolution was actually better on the M5xi while the S&B had better contrast and CA. I could have the resolution and contrast backwards but the S&B definitely had less CA.
Ive seen more Steiner failed on tracking vs pm2 and sh user percentage is much bigger than Steiner
I owned the two and compared them side the side. If you're talking purely from an optical standpoint, my Schmidt had more pop and slightly outresolved the Steiner. Having said that, I felt like it was knit picking and loved running both scopes.
I think guys mentioning tracking failures and questionable turrets are confusing the M5Xi (Military) with the T5Xi. Yes, the T5Xi's failures and/or shortcomings are well known, but the M-series is a completely different animal. Strictly speaking about optical performance, the Schmidt offered better contrast and resolution, but that's not to say the Steiner was far behind it. I had a couple of M5 5-25s on a few of my rifles and I can tell you I never had a reason to doubt their tracking.
I ordered a Military 5-25x56 yesterday from Sportoptics.com. It will be here tomorrow and I can compare it to my Razor AMG. I have owned a S&B PMII and it edged out the AMG ever so slightly. Can't wait to get my hands on the Steiner tomorrow
Yes, my mistake. I did not read the Military 5x25. I was thinking tactical 5x25. I have only had experience with the T5Xi.
Please tell us the results between the S&B and the M5. I have just purchased an M5 that was never mounted for $2k. I'm waiting for it to arrive any day. I do own a T5xi 5-25 and have been pleased. I did have to send it back but it was repaired and returned in about 10 days so I happy with my tech support experience. At this point, hearing what those with both S&B and the M5, I think it is one of those personal opinion things. If I don't think the M5 is what I hoped for I have no problem saying so. People generally have some bias toward how they spent their money...it's just human nature. If I'm not happy I'll sell the M5 and get a S&B PMII.
I’ve got 3 M5xi’s - 2x 5-25’s and 1x 3-15 all MSR, a s&b 5-25pm2 with h58 and a NF 7-35 mil-C.
The steiner turrets with the second rev is awesome. The track perfect also. The Schmidt might edge out the clarity of the steiner by 1% in my opinion (20/20vision) but that doesn’t mean much. I can look through all of them all day and never have an issue. Given a choice I think it would come down to what reticle was in it. Personally, I’m not a fan of the h58 so I typically grab a rifle with a steiner on it when I go to a match.
I haven’t had enough time behind the NF to compare the glass honestly to the stieners and s&b.
In my opinion, you can’t go wrong with either Schmidt or steiner. Find someone near you who has both and look through them and pick what your eye likes better.
The steiner turrets with the second rev is awesome. The track perfect also. The Schmidt might edge out the clarity of the steiner by 1% in my opinion (20/20vision) but that doesn’t mean much. I can look through all of them all day and never have an issue. Given a choice I think it would come down to what reticle was in it. Personally, I’m not a fan of the h58 so I typically grab a rifle with a steiner on it when I go to a match.
I haven’t had enough time behind the NF to compare the glass honestly to the stieners and s&b.
In my opinion, you can’t go wrong with either Schmidt or steiner. Find someone near you who has both and look through them and pick what your eye likes better.
hic28, thanks! This is exactly the type of info I wanted. you have "skin" in all 3 games so your info is good! I hope my M5 will arrive today.....
+1 on hic28's comments. I've got 3 of the M5xi's in 5x25 with the MSR and they are rock solid. 2 of them have great glass and the 3rd not so much. I had an S&B and of course the glass was great I personally just didn't like the spacing on the turrets and the battery compartment. With the new MSR2 reticle either one of these scopes would be a great scope.
I also have both scopes in MSR.
Just some stuff that I can quickly think off.
Glass, Both have very good glass the Steiner may resolve slightly better the S&B. Almost impossible to tell without lab equipment.
Turrets, The S&B has deeper louder detents than the Steiner's lighter quieter ones (I actually prefer the Steiner's).
Tracking, have not tested the S&B but the Steiner tracks perfectly.
Magnification Ring, S&B is light and smooth the Steiner is harder to turn.
Illumination, Steiner has a much better design with off between the settings not that I have ever used it. I really do not mind the iluminaton switch position on the S&B. I have reached to focus the Steiner and touched the illumination switch.
I am no optics expert but with both scopes at their highest magnification the Steiner MSR reticle shows 7mils at the bottom where the S&B shows 8 mils and at lowest magnification the Steiner's FOV is much larger than my S&B. I dont know why this is if someone knows let us know.
To me its like having two smoking hot bond girlfriends that are good at what they do.
Neither one gets thrown out of bed.
Just some stuff that I can quickly think off.
Glass, Both have very good glass the Steiner may resolve slightly better the S&B. Almost impossible to tell without lab equipment.
Turrets, The S&B has deeper louder detents than the Steiner's lighter quieter ones (I actually prefer the Steiner's).
Tracking, have not tested the S&B but the Steiner tracks perfectly.
Magnification Ring, S&B is light and smooth the Steiner is harder to turn.
Illumination, Steiner has a much better design with off between the settings not that I have ever used it. I really do not mind the iluminaton switch position on the S&B. I have reached to focus the Steiner and touched the illumination switch.
I am no optics expert but with both scopes at their highest magnification the Steiner MSR reticle shows 7mils at the bottom where the S&B shows 8 mils and at lowest magnification the Steiner's FOV is much larger than my S&B. I dont know why this is if someone knows let us know.
To me its like having two smoking hot bond girlfriends that are good at what they do.
Neither one gets thrown out of bed.
There is really no setting the zero stop, you sight in the rifle, loosen the setscrews and rotate the cap to 0 then tighten the setscrews.
I've only had the 3-15x M5xi to compare to my 3-20x ultra short and the bigger 3-20x.
I found the eyebox to be less critical on the M5xi than my S&B's.
Illum is better on the Steiner than the Schmidts.
I liked the turrets more on the Steiner, just wish they locked or the windage was capped.( The second rev indicator is tits.)
My M5xi seemed to have significantly more CA than my S&B though. Maybe it was my copy or the norm but if the CA was out of the question, I thought the glass on my Steiner had a bit more pop to it but all thing else were near equal.
I found the eyebox to be less critical on the M5xi than my S&B's.
Illum is better on the Steiner than the Schmidts.
I liked the turrets more on the Steiner, just wish they locked or the windage was capped.( The second rev indicator is tits.)
My M5xi seemed to have significantly more CA than my S&B though. Maybe it was my copy or the norm but if the CA was out of the question, I thought the glass on my Steiner had a bit more pop to it but all thing else were near equal.
