Re: Competition pistol opinions
Since we're way off on a tangent, my 3 cents as a USPSA Open GM/Limited M. Granted, I'm not competing much any longer and I'm not Chris Tilley or Max Jr or JJ or Todd or... Just a serious hobbyist that has won a few state titles and top-10 Area match finishes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the top level guys are so good that they don't need the little gadgets.
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Every "top level guy" I know runs a pistol that has had every part worked over or improved.
I'm not syaing they couldn't smoke the average competitor if given a stock gun, but they might not smoke another "top level guy".
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Aggie, you are up in the night...the exact opposite of your statement is the reality.
By definition there is not a top level guy in the world who does not extract every last bit of potential performance from their gear. Regardless if Jerry or Ernie shoot a production platform weapon, the last thing they are is stock.....Ernie Langdon Speedbump Trigger, Miculek Signature Revolver Grips, on and on....
To the OP....Like everything else in the shooting games there are several different tools that can be up to the task. I am in the camp that it is a little easier to shoot the 2011 well rather than the Glock....however specifically to 3Gun/Tac matches the Glock(and other striker fired guns) offers some very strong advantages. Namely when you have to abandon a pistol, the gun either has to be on safe or completely empty.
With a 1911/2011 platform gun there is some risk of the safety being knocked off in the abandonment box so you either must take extra time to unload or take extra time in your placement of the gun. With the striker fired guns as soon as your finger is out of the trigger guard it is by definition on safe and can be abandoned rather vigorously without unloading or apprehension that the safety could be knocked off.
K2: I've never had it happen but I've only been competing in 3gun for two years. Could it happen? I suppose. Would I take the time to drop the mag and rack the slide (even with a slide racker)? No way if the clock is still running. That's .5 seconds.
YMMV
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1st off I never said because they didn't <span style="font-weight: bold">need</span> every little thing didn't mean they don't <span style="font-weight: bold">have</span> every little thing. In fact most sponsored shooters have 3 or 4 identical guns. One that is designated as a practice firearm, a competition firearm, and then 1 or 2 that are identically fitted as the competitive firearm for parts. In the words of an unnamed sponsored shooter I used to carpool to matches with "If you don't want to win bad enough to cheat you don't want to win bad enough" He went as far as to use different loads, he would have one load that was just enough juice to make his gun function, which happened to be about a power factor of 115, and another load that was pushing the ceiling of most logical shooters reloads. He would stack his mags to put loads that made power factor where he would reload, and after he finished the stage so people who would pick up his mags for him or find his "unload and show clear" round that he unloaded would keep his rounds out to test them in their own gun because his gun sounded so weak during the stage. They would get an insane 200pf boom from his unused 38 super rounds.
K2: I don't doubt your account. This makes me sick and pisses me off though. There's a karma factor in life. It reminds me of watching a good Limited shooter (M class) I think at Nationals in Bend intentionally run over an RO. He intentionally did this by backing up, looking for the RO as he did it. Ran into him, knocked him down, demanded a re-shoot (he had tagged a no shoot or something), and subsequentially got DQ'd. The Air Force team, myself, and a few others witnessed it first hand. The guy arbitrated it and got re-instated despite all of our testimony. Really poor form, imo.
BTW
This shooter was paid to go to matches by STI, and if you handed him an incomplete scoresheet to sign after a stage, he would not only sign it but fill in other information to his benefit as well. Ask me how I know...
K2: I'm still a big supporter of USPSA -- I think it's a great sport. I do believe that having pros in a sport where there really isn't any money drives all sorts of dysfunctional behavior. Winning vs. losing at a major match means alot to the guys that are trying to get more sponsorship and build their resume. It's too bad. Definitely double standards slanted toward the "pros" in the sports vs. the people that actually pay most of the bills.
Not that it's an excuse. The PGA players are some of the most ethical sportsmen anywhere. It's the ethos of their sport and the outcry is intense if they ever bend the rules let alone outright cheat. The irony is there's millions of dollars on the line in the PGA especially when compared to IPSC/USPSA.
I agree with you, all the big names have every possible advantage stacked in their favor. My point is: any GM class USPSA shooter will smoke an A class shooter (my highest rank) if I was shooting the most whizzbang thing I could afford and they were shooting a glock 35 in 40 S&W out of the box.
I say so, because I've watched it happen
K2: I agree with the comments above. It's not luck or pre-disposition -- it's hard work that makes them so much better. Are you willing to devote your life, dry fire pretty much every day (at least for your foundational years) and/or go to the range multiple times per week shooting literally thousands of rounds per week? That's the secret, so to speak. Have you ever talked to Chris or Max or Travis or Eric G as to what their training schedule is like? It is planned, coached, thoughtful, devotion and hard work. When I was competing seriously, I was training with some damn good GMs -- even they are amazed at the hard work the current cream of the crop have put in over the years.
Also if you look at the details most of the gainfully employed shooters in this discipline are using heavier guns that have compound spring recoil systems to reduce recoil, where the top end guys have their technique perfected to a point where their guns are milled and lightened as much as possible, with a single heavy spring. They are physically dealing with the recoil and using lighter guns to transition between targets quicker.
K2: generally agree once again. I like light and quick for the transition speed. A few top guys use 6" slides in Limited but the reciprocating mass is typically lightened. The original SV IMMs were maybe an exception. They transmitted so much violent recoil energy directly back into my forearms that I developed tennis elbow for a year. I copied Max Jr's more sedate set up and the problems went away. Lot's of subtle tricks in the sport for sure that many have obsessed over. I give major props to many of the top guys in the sport that are very willing to share "what works for them". Specifically I've witnessed this from Max, Chris, Robbie, Todd, Henning, RonAvery, and many others.
Final Thoughts: to the original poster. As a hardcore 2011 guy, I certainly love that platform or other comparable ones, e.g., Tanfoglio. But, you really need to decide on your application and goals. Glocks and XDs and Sigs and ... can all be very serviceable competition guns. Just ask Dave Sevigny.
Talk about a different league!
I am really liking this thread, keep it the comments, thoughts, and pictures coming! </div></div>
