Can someone recommend a concentricity gauge? I was looking at Sinclair, but I would like to get some opinions from those who have used a couple different brands. Also, what does everyone think about the Hornady gauge? Can it really correct runout? It doesn't seem like it could but nevertheless I'm very curious. Thank you
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Concentricity gauge
- Thread starter Dutch405
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Have the Sinclair and it works well. I have a hard time thinking that the Hornady (or any other) concentricity gauge can then correct runout. Better to determine what is causing the runout IMO and correct that instead.
Neco, then Sinclair.
If you want a concentricity 'fixer' get the Bersin tool, IMO.
I'll probably pick up a Sinclair down the road, as the Bersin 'bodies' are a bit spendy and I'd need two more to do everything that I load.
Chris
If you want a concentricity 'fixer' get the Bersin tool, IMO.
I'll probably pick up a Sinclair down the road, as the Bersin 'bodies' are a bit spendy and I'd need two more to do everything that I load.
Chris
Not to hijack but where can one purchase the Bersin Tool and do you know approx cost of that little jewel?
thanks
[email protected] They actually make the bodies.
"Chris you are looking for a Small body cost is $170.00 plus $12.00 shipping. You can order at this e-mail with a Master Card or Visa or call 518 561-0307 9am to 4pm eastern time Mon. thur Fri. or 518 562-1232 other times.
Marvin Benton"
They supply one of two Swiss dial gages with each body: the standard one for most of the bodies reads to 4/10,000ths of an inch. The Varmint gage reads to 2/10,000ths of an inch. Yeah...you're reading that correctly.
You can get one dial gage and run it in all the bodies.
A couple of years back, they packaged one gage and two bodies for ~$280 + shipping.
As per their reply to me, a single body sans gage is $182 shipped.
Their standard deal is one body, one gage and a fitted 'gun case' for $240ish before shipping.
Bodies work on a family of cartridges and are double ended. My 7RM body will do the smaller (300WM) magnums on one end and the 30'06 sized carts on the other.
The small body does 223 at one end and 308 family on the other, for example.
Chris
I have the following concentricity gauges: Sinclair, Neco, 21th Century and Accuracy One.
Without a doubt the Accuracy One is the best unit hands down.
Unfortunately it is also the most (very) expensive one . But for extreme ease of use( concerning operation and adjustment ),
quality construction and versatilely it is the best.
But once again it is very expensive.
I do not use my gauge to correct run out, only to measure it.
Without a doubt the Accuracy One is the best unit hands down.
Unfortunately it is also the most (very) expensive one . But for extreme ease of use( concerning operation and adjustment ),
quality construction and versatilely it is the best.
But once again it is very expensive.
I do not use my gauge to correct run out, only to measure it.
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+1 on the Accuracy One gauge. I used a Sinclair for many years then recently acquired and Accuracy One. I find myself using it all the time and extremely accurate. Couple it with a Starrett dial test indicator and you will never need anything else. A bit on the expensive side but well worth the money.
Yeah, you and Walt are right. That Accuracy One looks pretty nifty and I like that hand crank, but does it do more measurements than the Neco, which seems to be the most flexible one of all, if not a bit challenging to use?
Chris
I'm not sure if the Accuracy One has more measuring options than the Neco . The Neco is pretty versatile but the many great features of the AO is hard to beat.
If nothing else just the one handed crank feature is fantastic. No more having to hold the cartridge down and in place while trying to spin it. Also the no clamp sliding magnetic roller bases are a snap to use. And the adjustable screw to fine tune the indicator reading and setting is a absolute joy to use. Also it being a bit heavy and having rubber feet helps keep it in place without shifting around on the work surface.
It is very Expensive but to some people it may be worth it.
If nothing else just the one handed crank feature is fantastic. No more having to hold the cartridge down and in place while trying to spin it. Also the no clamp sliding magnetic roller bases are a snap to use. And the adjustable screw to fine tune the indicator reading and setting is a absolute joy to use. Also it being a bit heavy and having rubber feet helps keep it in place without shifting around on the work surface.
It is very Expensive but to some people it may be worth it.
I concur. Sinclair gauge does a great job measuring runout. Focus on the cause of the runout rather than getting a gauge to try to correct it.
Id get nothing but the Hornady, this round was out to almost .004", as you can see its gooder now.
Well then, you must watch this vid. Unless you want me to make the same vid.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sgjk-zoW-WU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I've seen that, and other, videos showing how the Hornady gauge "fixes" runout by supporting the round at both ends and then using the "bullet pusher" to adjust the bullet until the dial indicator shows an improvement. My comment was more to the point that something in the OP's reloading process is introducing runout and it would be better, IMO, to identify and correct that that rather than trying to fix rounds after the fact. In addition I suspect that all the Hornady gauge may be doing is transferring the runout away from the indicator though since I do not have one I can't confirm. Has anyone ever measured the runout on a round at several different places not just where the Hornady indicator is, noted those numbers and then "fixed it then go back through and remeasure, noting the new numbers to see how they line up with the originals? I would not be surprised to discover that the runout at the point where the Hornady gauge is set to measure has improved the runout elsewhere has degraded. Just some thoughts.
I have never checked for run-out. I look at the Hornady gauge and I can't help but ask, The cartridge base is on a flat surface and the bullet nose is in a hole. Why wouldn't this gauge show the run-out of the base of the cartridge? So you are just aligning the bullet to the face of the bolt not the bore.
The thing to keep in mind about the tool, is what it is designed to do: measure and correct the concentricity of the bullet to the case. To that extent, the tool is designed around a few assumptions though:
1) the case head is concentric
2) the case neck is concentric
3) the bullet is concentric
Given these three assumptions are true, then the tool will properly align the center of the bullet to the center of the case in order to correct any misalignment which may have occurred during the seating process.
I will also add that I rarely see runout of more that 0.004" from my loads. But, given my OCDness (yes I am making my own word here haha), I will still correct the runout to less < 0.001"
1) the case head is concentric
2) the case neck is concentric
3) the bullet is concentric
Given these three assumptions are true, then the tool will properly align the center of the bullet to the center of the case in order to correct any misalignment which may have occurred during the seating process.
I will also add that I rarely see runout of more that 0.004" from my loads. But, given my OCDness (yes I am making my own word here haha), I will still correct the runout to less < 0.001"
I have the Hornady. It is nice to be able to reduce the indicated run-out right in the gauge; usually to less then +/- .0002". For what it is worth, Lapua brass has less run-out then WW.
OFG
OFG
I guess you're meaning checking the runout down the length of the bullet? Yes, Ive tried that and the measurement is the same no matter where you place point of the dial indicator. Is that what you mean?
And for the other poster saying the base of the shell is on a flat surface in the gauge, its actually like as cone shape, only the rim of the headstamp is touching.
And yet Sinclair sells them.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...ck-n-load-concentricity-gauge-prod37691.aspx#
Sinclair is good for measuring run-out, but then what?
In spite of doing all the little details to your components to make them perfectly concentric, perfectly concentric loaded rounds are very rare. That is where the ability to reduce run-out has value.
OFG
Link to a old post I did on how I check concentricity and fix runout.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=37960&highlight=concentricity+gage
Terry
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=37960&highlight=concentricity+gage
Terry
I haven't tried to correct runout, but I have read multiple sources from both the rimfire world and the centerfire world that bullets with corrected runout shoot no better than bullets with the same runout uncorrected. I can't seem to locate any of them right now, but the point above is valid. Runout can be used for QC. If you have high runout, you use the gaude to determine what part of your process is inducing runout and fix it. Think about what you are doing when you are fixing it at the tail end... you are bending the case neck to get the bullet to point straight. That could be problematic.
The bullet is not seating straight for a reason. You need to find out why. Oddly, I have found that while I can't tell a difference between higher runout and lower runout ammo (within reason... less than, say .0025"), sorted ammo always shoots better groups than unsorted for me. In other words, as long as the bullets have similar runout, the groups will be smaller than if there are large differences in runout. I generally sort 0 - .75 thou, .75 - 1.5 thou, 1.5 - 2.0 thou, and >2.0 thou. Usually, the 1.5-2 thou and > 2 thou are the smallest group, so I use those for sighters and foulers in practice and simply don't shoot them in a match.
The bullet is not seating straight for a reason. You need to find out why. Oddly, I have found that while I can't tell a difference between higher runout and lower runout ammo (within reason... less than, say .0025"), sorted ammo always shoots better groups than unsorted for me. In other words, as long as the bullets have similar runout, the groups will be smaller than if there are large differences in runout. I generally sort 0 - .75 thou, .75 - 1.5 thou, 1.5 - 2.0 thou, and >2.0 thou. Usually, the 1.5-2 thou and > 2 thou are the smallest group, so I use those for sighters and foulers in practice and simply don't shoot them in a match.
I like the Sinclair. With a concentric chamber and good dies setup properly, the runout is almost always within 0.001". I doubt the Hornady gauge fixes crooked brass. More than that I think it's like splitting hairs or atoms at that point?
NECO does just about everything.......they also sell a CAT (cartridge alignment tool) to tweek the rounds back into shape
Chariot.....
I looked at the CAT from NECO. No discription of how it works. Does the CAT come with instructions?
I looked at the CAT from NECO. No discription of how it works. Does the CAT come with instructions?
Only down side to the hornady is u can't measure run out on case neck of an unloaded brass. Must have bullet in it.
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