Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

[michael_aos]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I had a ~2000 Ford F250 with the 7.3L turbo diesel. Got a pretty consistent ~16mpg back when fuel was ~$.86/gal.

Just a great truck. Traded it toward a ~30mpg 2003 Honda Accord EX-L V6 in late 2002 because I no-longer needed to tow anything.

I really, really like turbo diesel's, but I'm just not sure they're cost-effective anymore unless you absolutely have to have the towing capacity.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Truckman11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swarrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
HIGH BINDER


FORD does NOT own Cummins. Ford owned -10% of Cummins, but that was back in 2005 and have senice sold off all there shares. Cummins owns Cummins all that ford owns cummins is internet BS.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/ownership?Symbol=US:CMI </div></div>

OK. Last I heard Ford did so I was going off that. Doesn't change the fact that Ford SHOULD use Cummings engines though. </div></div>

That would be pretty cool if you had the option to put a Cummins in your Ford truck from the factory.
I know of a couple of company's that will do it after the fact </div></div>

I've seen it done but it costs $15,000 and it looks kinda chinsy. Like they take the steering wheel buttons off and mount them to the dash and things like that. So it looks like it was a swap.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every few weeks I will get a DPF needing a regen using my Tech 2. you would not believe the heat that comes out of the exhaust. That is a whole bunch of unused fuel just getting dumped into the exhaust (air). </div></div>

Have you had one come in with the piezo stuck open (flame throwers)? Those are the fun ones that burn other cars at stoplights.</div></div>
Haven't had one of those, but then again I mostly work on the Duramax.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every few weeks I will get a DPF needing a regen using my Tech 2. you would not believe the heat that comes out of the exhaust. That is a whole bunch of unused fuel just getting dumped into the exhaust (air). </div></div>

Have you had one come in with the piezo stuck open (flame throwers)? Those are the fun ones that burn other cars at stoplights.</div></div>
Haven't had one of those, but then again I mostly work on the Duramax. </div></div>

What are the problems you're seeing with the Duramax? I don't follow Chevy at all but I just drove one the other day (family member bought one) and liked it. The only thing I didn't like was that the urea tank was hung way too low.

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I run a 2001 cummins ram w/ the 24 valve 5.9L and a 5 speed. I've got it jacked up 3.5" and am running 37" HMMWV tires. I'm getting 16-18 in town depending on how much I drive like an ass. I get 20+ on the highway, usually more like 22mpg.

BTW- this truck weighs 8k pounds, has deer killer bumpers om both ends, and still gets awesome mileage. I love the stick shift, I won't go back to autos or gassers.

Diesel here is $3.759 on average.

 

[RollinCoal11]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run a 2001 cummins ram w/ the 24 valve 5.9L and a 5 speed. I've got it jacked up 3.5" and am running 37" HMMWV tires. I'm getting 16-18 in town depending on how much I drive like an ass. I get 20+ on the highway, usually more like 22mpg.

BTW- this truck weighs 8k pounds, has deer killer bumpers om both ends, and still gets awesome mileage. I love the stick shift, I won't go back to autos or gassers.

Diesel here is $3.759 on average. </div></div>

Thats the good thing about pre 07 trucks no emission's crap to kill your fuel milage

 

[BForhan]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I work for Ford and Ford did sue over the 6.0 and 6.4. The waranty cost that International did not want to cover was a large part of it.
Ford no longer uses International engines due to those suits. Ford is now building their own diesel engines starting with the 2011 6.7.

Brian

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BForhan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I work for Ford and Ford did sue over the 6.0 and 6.4. The waranty cost that International did not want to cover was a large part of it.
Ford no longer uses International engines due to those suits. Ford is now building their own diesel engines starting with the 2011 6.7.

Brian </div></div>

OK that makes sense now. Have any idea how much they sued for? or won as a result? Was International trying to put some of the blame on Navistar parts?? Thanks!

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Truckman11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run a 2001 cummins ram w/ the 24 valve 5.9L and a 5 speed. I've got it jacked up 3.5" and am running 37" HMMWV tires. I'm getting 16-18 in town depending on how much I drive like an ass. I get 20+ on the highway, usually more like 22mpg.

BTW- this truck weighs 8k pounds, has deer killer bumpers om both ends, and still gets awesome mileage. I love the stick shift, I won't go back to autos or gassers.

Diesel here is $3.759 on average. </div></div>

Thats the good thing about pre 07 trucks no emission's crap to kill your fuel milage </div></div>

My '04 has emissions crap (EGR, cat, etc..) but that stuff doesn't even hold a candle to the the fuel killing emissions that the newer ones like my 2011 has..

 

[popeyecop]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I just bought a 2004 F250 with the 6.0 in it. it had 114,000 when i bought it. it gets 22+ on the high way and not sure in town. I bought it from a farmer who mainly used to go out to Elk hunt in Co.

So far no problems with it. he keep a maintence log on it and changed the oil every 7,000 miles.

I bought it to pull my camper with it. Has any one had any problems with the 04 let me know.

 

[BForhan]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I belive it was in the 2 billion range I am going from memory here.International was saying it was Fords programing that could be. But there where issues with bedplates and leading to oil leaks turbos,injectors,head gaskets.egr valves and so on. I have a 03 and it had some of those issues but has been trouble free since it was fixed.
Another part of the lawsuit had to do with Ford developing the Scorpion or 6.7 while under contract with International. That was won by Ford and development continued.
There was a lot of finger pointing by both parties. All I can say is thank God it is over from a waranty cost stand point.

Brian

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: POPEYECOP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> changed the oil every 7,000 miles.

Has any one had any problems with the 04 let me know. </div></div>

If your build date is early '04 than you've got the good EGR cooler so that's good but plan on swapping out the ICP and oil cooler sooner than later. You're right at the mileage that the oil cooler starts to plug up. You NEED a scangaugeII to watch the spread between ECT and EOT. You also NEED a coolant filter. You'll want to check your FICM voltages so you don't kill your injectors ($200/injector). There is a lot that every owner of these trucks needs to know.

P.S. Oil changes at 7,000 is bad! 5,000 at most! Dirty oil causes you're injectors to latch a lot sooner.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BForhan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I belive it was in the 2 billion range I am going from memory here.International was saying it was Fords programing that could be. But there where issues with bedplates and leading to oil leaks turbos,injectors,head gaskets.egr valves and so on. I have a 03 and it had some of those issues but has been trouble free since it was fixed.
Another part of the lawsuit had to do with Ford developing the Scorpion or 6.7 while under contract with International. That was won by Ford and development continued.
There was a lot of finger pointing by both parties. All I can say is thank God it is over from a waranty cost stand point.

Brian


</div></div>

Wow! Thanks for the info!

 

[cmh2007]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I have a 6.7 cummins that i love, I have done the DPF and EGR deletes on it. i was seeing some 15mpg freeway and 12 city, i now see aroudn 19 freeway and 16 city. for me, the difference in price of gas versus diesel is a major savings, considering i had to feed my old truck premium to get it above 14mpg freeway.

 

[swarrick]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
P.S. Oil changes at 7,000 is bad! 5,000 at most! Dirty oil causes you're injectors to latch a lot sooner. </div></div>

Wrong again HIGH BENDER, Sorry! Depending on the make and model that is Good to go. Cummins Schedule A in the maintenance manual suggest an oil change every 7,500 miles. Cummins themselves say you can go a maximum of 15,000 miles on an oil change, provided you use oil that meet specific criteria. If you don't use oil that meet that, they recommend a maximum 7,500 change intervail. In fact if you run a oil bypass system and get it tested every 10,000 some oils you can run MUCH MUCH longer. Now with that said I change mine ever 5000, I figure a $50.00 oil change is much easier than replacing a $12,000 motor. Also dont buy into all that high priced syn oil unless you just like throwing your cash away. Shell Rotella or Mobil Delvac work just fine, just make sure and run a good filter. I would not filter my toilet water threw a fram oil filter, run a mopar, amsoil filter or another high end filter. If you want to realy want to help extend your motors life, you should add a fuel filter and a water separator.

 

[wdebo]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I really like My Duramax. And I am getting ready to order a new Duramax Denali. I pull a trailer everyday so I need a diesel.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swarrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
P.S. Oil changes at 7,000 is bad! 5,000 at most! Dirty oil causes you're injectors to latch a lot sooner. </div></div>

Wrong again HIGH BENDER, Sorry! Depending on the make and model that is Good to go. Cummins Schedule A in the maintenance manual suggest an oil change every 7,500 miles. Cummins themselves say you can go a maximum of 15,000 miles on an oil change, provided you use oil that meet specific criteria. If you don't use oil that meet that, they recommend a maximum 7,500 change intervail. In fact if you run a oil bypass system and get it tested every 10,000 some oils you can run MUCH MUCH longer. </div></div>


Wrong SWABBICK! Sorry! We're not talking about your Cummings (read the post) We're talking about an F250 with a 6.0! And he doesn't have a by-pass system so why bring that up???

The 6.0 (Again not a Cummings) needs frequent oil changes to slow the onset of LATCHING (said that twice now) which becomes more and more prevalent in higher mileage 6.0/4s...

Like you said syn v. dino oil doesn't matter all that much in the overall function of the engine but a syn WILL slow the onset of latching so for that reason alone a syn is worth running in a 6.0. If latching wasn't an issue in the 6.0s than you would be right about oil change intervals but in terms of 6.0/4s you're not...Sorry!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swarrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to realy want to help extend your motors life, you should add a fuel filter and a water separator. </div></div>

SWABBICK, this guy's 6.0 already has the above...

 

[swarrick]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

Well latie da, there is a perfect reason not to buy a ford. Your correct I did not understand that we were posting about fords. I was refrancing a cummins maintenance manual not a international or who ever it is that make the ford motor now. I bring up an oil bypass becuase it has revalance, it will extend the oil life if you wish to install it. Good luck with the ford diesel...HaHa


I do agree that if Ford had the Cummins it would be unstopable.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swarrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well latie da, there is a perfect reason not to buy a ford. Your correct I did not understand that we were posting about fords. I was refrancing a cummins maintenance manual not a international or who ever it is that make the ford motor now. I bring up an oil bypass becuase it has revalance, it will extend the oil life if you wish to install it. Good luck with the ford diesel...HaHa


I do agree that if Ford had the Cummins it would be unstopable. </div></div>

... and if coupled to an Allison tranny you'd have a million mile truck.

On a side note: Latching is not unique to Fords. It will occur in any HEUI system including Cummings so bumping up the frequency of oil changes as the truck gets higher in mileage will benefit any diesel's HEUI system (CAT, Deere, Cummings, International, Scorpion, etc..) and slow the onset of latching.

 

[swarrick]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I will keep an eye on that but for now every 5000 is doing fine. I only have 108,000 miles on the ticker. I do think regular maintenance will save your ass when it comes to a Diesel. Good oil changes with a good oil filter, change the fuel filter and just other GP maintenance goes along ways. As for an Allison I would not trade my Manual 6 Speed for one. If the body last I have a Million mile truck.

 

[18Echo]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

... and if coupled to an Allison tranny you'd have a million mile truck.

</div></div>

Dodges are already Million mile trucks without the allison.

Swarrick, I run an oil bypass filter on my 07 5.9L, and use the Donaldson extended life filters, with mobile delvac right now (just cause I got a smoking deal on a couple cases).

I have an aux transmission filter kit, but I haven't gotten around to putting it on yet. I'm nervous about drilling my frame... I don't know if my drill would do it.

The main thing to remember with a diesel (unless you have a lot of money) DONT CHIP IT!!!!

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

OK I am glad someone answered the questions about the lawsuit with Ford and International. I know a lot of had to do with the 6.0 and the warrenty. I have the information at work and as was posted that is why now Ford is builds it own engine. After working on quite a few 6.0's I can understand why Ford is now building there own engine.

Many have posted about a Cummins in a Ford truck. I can tell that when Cummins first came out with the B5.9 diesel they went to Ford and Chevy and asked them if they would like to put a Cummins in there trucks. Of course both Ford and Chevy already had a diesel in there pickups. So Cummins went to Chrysler and ask them if they want to put a diesel in there pickup. Well of course at the time chrylser did not have a diesel in a pickup. Cummins signed a contract with chrylser and part of the contract was that they did not sell the engine to say Ford or Chevy to use in a pickup or truck smaller then 1 1\2 ton. Of course if you buy a truck bigger than 1 ton you can get it with a cummins engine. Also as was posted people do put cummins in there ford or chey pickups. They sell kits for doing it.

Of course the B 5.9 is a big seller for Cummins. Not only are they in pickup trucks, but many other different applications. Currently there are several different Dodge trucks with B 5.9 engines that have at least 1 million miles.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm nervous about drilling my frame... I don't know if my drill would do it.

The main thing to remember with a diesel (unless you have a lot of money) DONT CHIP IT!!!! </div></div>

You're drill will do it but your drill bits might not, HSS will just grenade. Go get one or two TiN coated bits and you'll get through it no problem.

AMEN to not "chipping" them. Any change to the program usually results in $$$

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every few weeks I will get a DPF needing a regen using my Tech 2. you would not believe the heat that comes out of the exhaust. That is a whole bunch of unused fuel just getting dumped into the exhaust (air). </div></div>

Have you had one come in with the piezo stuck open (flame throwers)? Those are the fun ones that burn other cars at stoplights.</div></div>
Haven't had one of those, but then again I mostly work on the Duramax. </div></div>

What are the problems you're seeing with the Duramax? I don't follow Chevy at all but I just drove one the other day (family member bought one) and liked it. The only thing I didn't like was that the urea tank was hung way too low. </div></div>
Not to many problems mechanically. I thing the Duramax is pretty much kink free now. There are some problems in freezing areas. Luckily I am not in one of those. Most of our problems are related to aftermarket add on products and some mileage concerns. The PCM's are on parts restriction so they are a little tough to get right now. GM really wants us to tell them about aftermarket products as they are denying warranty claims to save money. Should have seen the guy that came in about 3 weeks ago with a motor knock that was flagged at another dealer in AZ. He went through the roof when we told him it is $7,800 to fix it. Oh just to let you Duramax owners know, if you have a programmer and go to the dealer, I would know and GM will know if you programmed the ECM/PCM and changed it back. It shows up as the last 7 programmings saved in the NVM (non-volatile memory).

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

What are the problems you're seeing with the Duramax? I don't follow Chevy at all but I just drove one the other day (family member bought one) and liked it. The only thing I didn't like was that the urea tank was hung way too low. </div></div>
Not to many problems mechanically. I thing the Duramax is pretty much kink free now. There are some problems in freezing areas. Luckily I am not in one of those. Most of our problems are related to aftermarket add on products and some mileage concerns. The PCM's are on parts restriction so they are a little tough to get right now. GM really wants us to tell them about aftermarket products as they are denying warranty claims to save money. Should have seen the guy that came in about 3 weeks ago with a motor knock that was flagged at another dealer in AZ. He went through the roof when we told him it is $7,800 to fix it. Oh just to let you Duramax owners know, if you have a programmer and go to the dealer, I would know and GM will know if you programmed the ECM/PCM and changed it back. It shows up as the last 7 programmings saved in the NVM (non-volatile memory). </div></div>

Ha, Ford's have the same thing, my 6.7 has it. It's some kind of auxiliary memory unit that will show any recent flashes even when flashed back to the OEM strategy. I've heard of a lot of people loosing their warranties due to that. Apparently even some/all of the hard-wired (non-software) fuel type mods show up somehow in that unit. I guess, like the 6.7 the new Duramax's issues won't show up int he shops until right after the 100,000 mile point but it looks like a solid engine and I kind of wish I would have gotten that instead of the 6.7 'cus I just don't trust Ford.

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I own a 2004 Dodge 3500 dually. It is my daily driver and has 180,xxx miles. I own a hotrod/bike shop but I have never modified anything on this truck. It has been very dependable and averages 21.5 mpg dry and 16mpg pulling a loaded 3-horse gooseneck trailer. I would not buy anything newer right now. 2004 was the peak of reliability for the Cummins in Dodge trucks. Everything changed in 2005 and is still changing due to new EPA regs. Granted, diesel fuel is pricey right now but the mileage more than makes up for it.

Bob

 

[Super Bee 950]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I would like to do an EPA everything removal to my truck, but since I have business link warranty service on the truck I cant do it

 

[High Binder]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to do an EPA everything removal to my truck, but since I have business link warranty service on the truck I cant do it

</div></div>

I'm not 100% sure about your truck but you might be able to do an EGR by-pass, it makes it look like you EGR system is still intact but it isn't and you could gut your cat.

 

[silverstang]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

I worked on Ford Powerstrokes for years. I know them in and out, I'm Ford certified on pretty much any gas, diesel, hybrid Ford vehicle out there. My specialty was diesel however. 6.0 was a decent truck, they just required more maint than previous diesels of any type (customers would NOT listen to this). Still too many problems out of them to be considered a reliable vehicle.

6.4 is a uber P.O.S. when it breaks, but they do run fairly well. Had a friend put 200k miles on his without the first issue. Also had a friend on his 3rd motor within 30k miles. You won't see any of them coming into the shop spitting fire out of the exhaust, that was a fluke on first release vehicles and you will not see it unless you watch it on youtube.

I drive a 6.4 for a living now (ironic, huh?) and I keep the maitenance up, it doesn't fail me. Don't be a retard and put gas in it, use quality fuel, and Motorcraft filters ONLY.

If you want a diesel, you should either be very wealthy and/or have a need for a diesel.

 

[Kirker912]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

+1 Duramax. This is the truck I want to keep for a lifetime

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Considering a diesel truck...advice requested

OK Cummins is doing it again. After there success with dodge and the B5.9 they are going to come out with a new engine and put it in a Nissian truck. Stay tune.

Cummins IBF