Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

[Scoop]

I have been using my Beanland-built Light Tactical 6.5X47 (~12 pounds suppressor and all) for hunting whitetails this season, but it is just a little heavier than what I think is ideal in a hunting rifle (OK, the truth...I am just trying to justify building a new rifle). Now that the truth is out, I need some input on the new build. Max range is 300 yards (98% of the time), very unlikely to have a 400 yard shot. Here's what I have in mind. Let me know what you think.

- Caliber will be 6.5X47 or .260 Rem or 6.5CM based on input from the Hide (which would be most efficient/retain the highest velocity in a short barrel?). I really like the Barnes 120 gr TTSX's (my present bullet) or I may try the Hornady 120 GMX with its slightly higher BC.
-Remmy Action
-16.5 inch barrel (I want short & light). I can push the 120 TTSX to 2750 out of my 18.5 inch 6.5X47 with a modest load of Varget.
-Brux #3 contour barrel threaded for suppressor. Looks like the #3 would finish at ~.715 at 16.5 inches so I may have to opt for 9/16X24 threads. What say you?
-In keeping with the lighweight theme, A Quicksilver Titanium suppressor or Gemtech's Titanium Sandstorm. Both weigh around 13.5 oz.
-McMillan Remmy Varmint or maybe another A1-3 (just cause I like 'em). Either would be of "Edge" construction. ~24 oz.
-Staying with just plain BDL bottom metal setup (may use some PTG aluminum BDL-type BM 'cause I have it). Don't need anything else for a Hunter.
-Shilen trigger @ 3.5 pounds
-TPS Aluminum scope base and rings 'cause I have 'em
-Leupold VX-R 3-9X40 Patrol Optic

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

One thing I can comment on, the Quicksilver standard 308 can didn't impress me with regards to sound reduction. I think the 1.25" diameter is a little too small for 308, the 1.5" and larger diameter cans do much better. I have an AWC ThunderTrap that I wish was titanium, it's a boat anchor....
If I were shopping right now I would be looking at the Thunder Beast 30P-1 in titanium. Around the same weight and getting great reviews.

 

[bohem]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Scoop - Here's the 308 that I have in process

Short Action
18.5" light contour, 8.5tw 30c from Brux.
Contour is 0.82" @ 18.0" from breech, just heavy enough for suppressor
McMillan HTG, non-adjustable
APA DBM
ARC Rings, extra low 30mm
NF NXS 2.5-10x32

All up it pencils to 8.9lb with 5rd of 308

The fast twist barrel is so that I can launch 240 SMK's and 220RN's at subsonic speeds and remain stable.

We can hunt with suppressors in PA, the short barrel is for weight and running it from a climbing stand. Suppressor goes in my pack til I'm in the stand, screwed on, and then I hunt with subsonics because the shots are rarely more than 75-100yd away. My last 2 deer were both inside 40yd.

Quiet, heavy bullets do a great job penetrating and leave a good blood trail if a head shot isn't possible.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scoop - Here's the 308 that I have in process

Short Action
18.5" light contour, 8.5tw 30c from Brux.
Contour is 0.82" @ 18.0" from breech, just heavy enough for suppressor
McMillan HTG, non-adjustable
APA DBM
ARC Rings, extra low 30mm
NF NXS 2.5-10x32

All up it pencils to 8.9lb with 5rd of 308

The fast twist barrel is so that I can launch 240 SMK's and 220RN's at subsonic speeds and remain stable.

We can hunt with suppressors in PA, the short barrel is for weight and running it from a climbing stand. Suppressor goes in my pack til I'm in the stand, screwed on, and then I hunt with subsonics because the shots are rarely more than 75-100yd away. My last 2 deer were both inside 40yd.

Quiet, heavy bullets do a great job penetrating and leave a good blood trail if a head shot isn't possible. </div></div>

Sounds like a sweet little build. SC is GTG for suppressed hunting too. I never hunt without one now. I have taken many whitetails with suppressed AR's and suppressed .308/6.5X47/.45 ACP bolt guns. I have a .300 Whisper for the closer-range stuff. Running 220 Outlaw States through it. On my hunt club, there are stands in the woods where ranges would be <75 yards and also several on fields where shots can range up to 400 yards (300 yards practical max).

I like the weight you have listed. Copuple of questions. Is your HTG the Edge variety? Is that weight calculated from published weights of the parts or is it the actual weight of the finished rifle? If the latter, then I may be able to up my barrel profile a little. Thanks.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSSamurai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing I can comment on, the Quicksilver standard 308 can didn't impress me with regards to sound reduction. I think the 1.25" diameter is a little too small for 308, the 1.5" and larger diameter cans do much better. I have an AWC ThunderTrap that I wish was titanium, it's a boat anchor....
If I were shopping right now I would be looking at the Thunder Beast 30P-1 in titanium. Around the same weight and getting great reviews. </div></div>

Thanks SSS. That's the kind of input I am looking for. I have an older SWR Omega .30 cal can that I am using now, but it is heavy (like 28 oz IIRC). I'll check out the 30P-1. The 1.25" diameter of the Quicksilver was appealing in that I thought it might look more at home on a thinner contour barrel, but sound reduction is important too. Less so on this rifle, but still important. Did you shoot the Quicksilver side-by-side with the Thundertrap? Same day, same time? Tell me more. Thanks.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

I'm a HUGE fan of the 6.5mm as well, but it seems that you can push a heavier bullet faster from a short-barrel 7mm or 30-caliber.
--

 

[Rthur]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

You should ckeck out Jerod Joplin's (meat stick) hunting rifle. It might be the answer you are looking for.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a HUGE fan of the 6.5mm as well, but it seems that you can push a heavier bullet faster from a short-barrel 7mm or 30-caliber.
-- </div></div>

That may be and I am open to the subject. Give me some real-world numbers if you don't mind. I have a good bit of time behind short barreled .308's but no experience with shorty 7mm-08's. I am pushing the 120 TTSX to 2730 fps with a modest load of Varget out of my 18.5 inch 6.5X47. I would think that I could get that same velocity out a a 16.5 inch tube in 6.5CM or .260 Rem. Anybody running a 6.5 mm cartridge with that short a tube?

 

[michael_aos]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

No hard numbers, but it's been my impression for a given barrel-length, the 7mm-08 can always push a 140gr bullet faster than 260 Remington.

I'm guessing a 155gr 308 bullet would be right in there, if not faster.

The 6.5mm bullet would have the highest BC of the bunch, but at the ranges you're talking about that may not be a big deal.
--

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

You might not agree, but I think your stock options are a bit chunky for the barrel contour listed. IMHO, the McMillan Remington Classic is a far superior stock for a #3 contour than those listed, especially the A1-3.

And another thing - the TPS rings and base with a 40mm bell scope might place the scope a bit high. For a strictly hunting rifle, I'd suggest some Talley lightweight low rings.

 

[Rhys]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Check out the Manners SL for the stock. I really like them on barrels from a #5 on down.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Thanks darren. My reasoning on the stocks is that I like the wider, flat-bottomed forend of the Varmint or A1-3. They ride the shooting rails on my stands well and will sit upright without tipping to the side with the butt just rested on my knee. I don't have any experience with the Classic but I am open to the idea. What's the width on the forend? Good point on the rings too. What I have are the super low (.820) TPS HRT's. Just figured I'd use 'em 'cause I have 'em. I also considered the aluminum one-piece from Game Reaper, but the Talley aluminums are super light. I'll have to look at that some more.

Thanks Rhys. I have looked at the Manners several times, but their lightweights are heavier than the McMillans and weight is the primary concern all else (quality-wise) being equal.

 

[19818119]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Re velocities from short barrels, I'm able to push the 130gr TTSX @ 3100fps from my 19" barrel in my .308 Steyr Scout, given you wont be reaching further thab 300yds this might be an option.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Re velocities from short barrels, I'm able to push the 130gr TTSX @ 3100fps from my 19" barrel in my .308 Steyr Scout, given you wont be reaching further thab 300yds this might be an option. </div></div>

Thanks rath. Pretty hard to argue against that. Must be a fairly stout load. Care to lay out the details? What kind of accuracy you getting with it? Sounds interesting and I already have dies, brass, etc for the .308 win.

 

[6.5BR]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Ruger 77 Compact 260, 16.5", DONE.

2750= no problem.

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Ah, you hunt from a stand. That does make a difference. The Classic forearm is fairly slender and rounded - likely not the best fro your situation. I might then suggest something like the Remington Varmint model of McMillan. It has a wider, flat forearm but is shorter in length than the Remington Hunter. It will look more proportional with a shorter tube.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah, you hunt from a stand. That does make a difference. The Classic forearm is fairly slender and rounded - likely not the best fro your situation. I might then suggest something like the Remington Varmint model of McMillan. It has a wider, flat forearm but is shorter in length than the Remington Hunter. It will look more proportional with a shorter tube. </div></div>

Thanks darren. The Varmint was the one I was leaning toward.

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

It was years ago, but the Quicksilvers had just come out. We compared the Quicksilver to a ThunderTrap, Gemtech HVT and a AAC Cyclone. It was all subjective, no testing equipment, but at the time we all agreed on the results. Best to worst for sound reduction, AWC, AAC, Gemtech, Quicksilver.
On the other hand, their .223 can compares much better to others. I shot that side by side with an AWC Raider and a Gemtech M4-02 and the difference was so minimal that the weight savings became well worth it. I ended up buying one of those.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Thanks for the input SSS. As long as the comparisons are done same-day, same-time, your ears are generally fine for determining which can is the quietest or "sounds" the best.

 

[bohem]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scoop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like a sweet little build. SC is GTG for suppressed hunting too. I never hunt without one now. I have taken many whitetails with suppressed AR's and suppressed .308/6.5X47/.45 ACP bolt guns. I have a .300 Whisper for the closer-range stuff. Running 220 Outlaw States through it. On my hunt club, there are stands in the woods where ranges would be <75 yards and also several on fields where shots can range up to 400 yards (300 yards practical max).

I like the weight you have listed. Copuple of questions. Is your HTG the Edge variety? Is that weight calculated from published weights of the parts or is it the actual weight of the finished rifle? If the latter, then I may be able to up my barrel profile a little. Thanks. </div></div>

I did a little hunting in SC when I was there for work for about 5-6 months. I really enjoyed it there.

The HTG is a non-adj. "Edge" and the weight on that is a published value as well as the barrel contour. The contour weight comes directly from Brux when I ordered the barrel and talked through various contours with Kyle at Brux.

The action, DBM, scope, and rings are all known values that I either weighed myself or attained by making a phone call and getting a friend to go check with stuff on his shelf.

I thought about keeping with a 6.5 for a little longer legs but quickly decided that the heavy 30's at short range were a bigger trade off to being able to use a little less elevation/drift on a 400yd shot... if I ever see one from a tree stand.

 

[19818119]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Sorry Scoop I missed this earlier.

Load is safe in my rifle:

49.5gr AR2206H (H4895 to you guys) puts me .5gr over max "book" load
Lapua Brass
Fed GMM 210 Primer
OAL: 2.893
.03 jump
Zero over-pressure signes
3110fps (in the Australian summer)
Managed to push up to 3190fps before pressure signes.

Note the OAL, one of the great things about the scout is that they are throated long enough to seat projectiles a long way out and still mag feed, this really allows to get the most out of case capacity. I don't think you'll fit this load into a AI mag but an internal should be able to be modified without problem.

I took this load to africa and it just flattens things.

Rath

Edited to add: Load is sub MOA out to 300.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Thanks rath! I love those TTSX bullets. You may swing me back toward the .308 before it's over.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

I've got a rifle to show you.....Weighs half what your current one does.

I'd second the Thunderbeast over the Sandstorm.

I prefer light accurate rifles, suppressed or otherwise. Build enough heavy ones and you will too. Weight didn't become a big deal to me until a few years ago. It's funny, as the higher up the more serious you go in other sports the more weight conscious you become. Except in this sport.

I'm going to say you should rebarrel a Kimber Montana and mount your optic with Talley one piece mounts.

 

[steve123]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

How about a 16" AR in 6.5 Grendel since you already have a nice bolt gun ?

More fun and enough gun

Edit. I bet you could build one that shoots sub moa and weighs less than 7 lbs. 400Y is easy for the Grendel.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about a 16" AR in 6.5 Grendel since you already have a nice bolt gun ?

More fun and enough gun

Edit. I bet you could build one that shoots sub moa and weighs less than 7 lbs. 400Y is easy for the Grendel.
</div></div>

I know I could build that animal. I've built, and hunted with, ultralights in 6.8SPC and 5.56 before. Not sure you could get enough velocity with the 16 inch tube in the Grendel to do what needs to be done. 400 yards might be easy, but would it have enough juice to get the job done once it got there? What weight-class bullets does the Grendel like best? I'm running the 120 TTSX in my X47.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a rifle to show you.....Weighs half what your current one does.

I'd second the Thunderbeast over the Sandstorm.

I prefer light accurate rifles, suppressed or otherwise. Build enough heavy ones and you will too. Weight didn't become a big deal to me until a few years ago. It's funny, as the higher up the more serious you go in other sports the more weight conscious you become. Except in this sport.

I'm going to say you should rebarrel a Kimber Montana and mount your optic with Talley one piece mounts.
</div></div>

I'd like to see that one Aaron. We'll have to get together and shoot some.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

I don't think McMillan builds their lightweight mountain stocks anymore. Ditch the
bottom metal and go ADL style. It's nice looking, and serves a great purpose if you
road hunt (or should I say are in and out of the truck a lot) but is nothing but
dead weight otherwise. Their has to be an up and coming stock maker out there
doing a featherweight stock like the McMillan Mountain. My 700 Stw is slightly over
5.5 lbs bare. 26" barrel.

 

[steve123]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scoop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about a 16" AR in 6.5 Grendel since you already have a nice bolt gun ?

More fun and enough gun

Edit. I bet you could build one that shoots sub moa and weighs less than 7 lbs. 400Y is easy for the Grendel.
</div></div>

I know I could build that animal. I've built, and hunted with, ultralights in 6.8SPC and 5.56 before. Not sure you could get enough velocity with the 16 inch tube in the Grendel to do what needs to be done. 400 yards might be easy, but would it have enough juice to get the job done once it got there? What weight-class bullets does the Grendel like best? I'm running the 120 TTSX in my X47. </div></div>

The 123's are probably the most popular. I'd use the new 123Amax.

I'm not much of a deer hunter but I used some 105 Amax to head shoot 2 coyotes at 330Y with my 6mmART40 which is a wildcat cartridge based off 6.5 Grendel. Blew their heads up pretty bad.

It's all about shot placement right ?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Sounds like you're already set-up for a 6.5x47, so why not stick with that?

Maybe go with a Manners Super Light hunting stock or a 90% carbon shell? For barrel contour, maybe try a Remington Varmint contour and chop it off at 20-22"? Maybe install a NF 2.5-10x32? That would be a nice hunting rifle for out to 300 yards for sure.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like you're already set-up for a 6.5x47, so why not stick with that?

Maybe go with a Manners Super Light hunting stock or a 90% carbon shell? For barrel contour, maybe try a Remington Varmint contour and chop it off at 20-22"? Maybe install a NF 2.5-10x32? That would be a nice hunting rifle for out to 300 yards for sure. </div></div>

Thanks tyler. 6.5x47 is a consideration for the chambering as per my original post. All your other suggestions add up to a rifle considerably heavier than my present lightweight tactical rig. That rig, from my original post, has an overall weight of ~12 pounds fully equipped and is configured as follows: 18.5 inch Fluted 8-twist Lilja in Remmy Varmint contour, Surgeon 591 Action/Bottom Metal and a McMillan A1-3 Edge stock (lighter than the Manners lightweight). Only place I could shave a few ounces would be in changing the optic from the heavy 5-20 SS HD to something lighter (have decided on the Leupy VX-R 3-9 Patrol - it'll be here tomorrow). I can continue to use what I have, but I <span style="text-decoration: line-through">need</span> want something a good bit lighter (say in the 8.5 pound range fully equipped).

 

[19818119]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

This weighs 8.8 pounds as pictured, a can would take it over your limit:

If you are dead set at your weight target I would get a .243 or 260 tikka T3 lite, chop the barrel to 16.5, add a Mcmillan Sako Hunter as seen here and rock on:

Regardless of your direction let us know how it turns out.

Rath

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This weighs 8.8 pounds as pictured, a can would take it over your limit:

If you are dead set at your weight target I would get a .243 or 260 tikka T3 lite, chop the barrel to 16.5, add a Mcmillan Sako Hunter as seen here and rock on:

Regardless of your direction let us know how it turns out.

Rath
</div></div>

Thanks Rath. Nice Scout by the way. I have considered that very option (Tikka Lite) and may end up going that route depending on what I find out. It may be that 8.5 pounds is not doable. We'll just have to see. Still leaning towards the specs I listed in the original post. Just picked up a Remmy 700 in .308 with factory sporter profile barrel as a test bed for total weight. Having it cut down/threaded tomorrow. The flimsy factory plastic stock weighs 26 ounces. That should let me test the weight fully equipped with my can. If it passes muster, I'll add a McMillan in Edge construction (~24 ounces) and go from there.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Proof-of-concept testing is complete. Here's a pic of the rifle fully equipped as I plan on using it. It is a factory sporter contour .308 chopped to 16.5 inches and threaded. It weighs 8 pounds 13 ounces as you see it with the suppressor and Leupy VX-R Patrol. I am going to send it off for the treatment I posted in my original post. Caliber will be .260 Rem. The flimsy plastic factory stock weighs 26 ounces. I figure the lower weight of the McMillan Edge will come pretty close to cancelling out the small added weight from the #3 contour barrel. Still haven't decided on which stock for sure, but I'm leaning toward the Varmint for the flat forend to ride the shooting rails on my stands. Still open to suggestions there. The Thunderbeast titanium suppressor is 10 ounces lighter than what I have now, so I'm hopeful that I'll end up just under 8.5 pounds. Thanks for all the input folks.

 

[19818119]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Awesome...

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

The lightweight hunter is done and here is the promised update. For the sake of my Visa card, I had to change/lower a few of the specs. I am pleased with how it turned out. Headed to the range tomorrow to sight in and test out a hunting load. Hoping to bloody it next week. Here's how the final product shaped up:
-Remmy 700 Action
-PTG Aluminum BDL Bottom Metal
-Douglas Stainless #4 contour 8-twist XX Air Gauged barrel. The #4 contour added a little weight, but is just right for the muzzle threads
-Barrel is 17.25 inches & threaded 5/8x24 for my SWR Omega (will go to the lighter Thunderbeast Titanium can as funds permit after the first of the year)
-Bell & Carlson Ultralight Alaskan II Ti Stock with my camo job
-Barreled action, bottom metal & scope base coated in Norrells Moly Resin by me (mix of OD Green & Desert Tan). The suppressor is coated in coyote cerakote and matches another rifle.
-Shilen Trigger
-Leupold VX-R Patrol Optic in TPS low aluminum rings (HRT Version) on a TPS base
-Tactical Works Stock Pack
-Total weight as pictured with Suppressor is 9.5 pounds (will be under 9 pounds with the Thunderbeast Titanium can)

Lightweight .260 Rem Hunter 011_crop by Scoop86, on Flickr

 

[BigNoise]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

That thing is freakin SWEET!

I want to build something similar, possibly in .338 Federal.

 

[RBros]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

Let us know what you get for velocity with this one in the shorty barrel.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Considering A Lightweight Tac Hunter Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let us know what you get for velocity with this one in the shorty barrel. </div></div>

Got her sighted in today and ready to hunt. Since I want to hunt with it for the last two weeks of the season, I did not have time to do a lot of load development. I just punched 120 gr TTSX and RL17 into QL and went with the OBT load for my barrel length (of course I worked up to that load with a few rounds just to make sure pressures were safe). I'm getting a consistent 1 moa with the 120 gr TTSX's @ 2754 fps (avg velocity) using 43.5 gr of RL17. Nothing to write home about. When deer season is over I will do some more experimenting and work up an accurate load with probably H4350, but for now this load will work just fine ( I will be hunting with it tomorrow morning

). Zeroed at 100 yards, it's .5 mil to 200 and 1.3 mil to 300 yards. I verified these number on the range today. I really like this little rifle. Hope I can christen it before the season ends.