Considering selling my 5R and buying a TRG or AIAE

[matt33]

A little over a year ago, I got into long range shooting. I bought a .308 Remington 5R which has proven to be an exceptional value and a great shooter. That said, I’m thinking about selling the 5R and putting the funds toward a Sako TRG 22 or something similar. I’ve got a fairly tight budget and I can’t afford multiple precision rifles right now. I like the Remington, but the HS Precision stock has never fit me well (I don’t like the palm swell) and I’d also like to get the stainless steel coated matte black. Once I started doing the math ($800+ for an AICS or McMillan with bedding and bottom metal, $200 to have the barreled action coated, $90 to have a Badger knob installed, possibly a new trigger), I’m really not that far away from a TRG 22 ($2,698).

If you have personal experience with the TRG, how do you like it? How do they shoot? I held one once and I really liked the stock, but I didn’t get to shoot it. I’ve also been looking at the Accuracy International AE series, but at $3,369 it’s more than I can comfortably afford. That said, until yesterday, I didn't realize the AI AE could be had in 6.5 CM; that's really my dream setup. In the past I’ve found that I'm better off getting what I want rather than compromising, especially when the TRG 22 is $2,700 and the AE is only around $600 more. The largest factor holding me back is my tight budget, but I’m willing to save a little longer if need be. Another factor is all of the reloading gear I already have for .308 (16 lbs of Varget, 500 new Lapua cases, 700 175 SMK's, premium .308 dies, ect...).

To complicate things a little more, I just found out my local Sako/AI dealer (Euro Optics, they are outstanding by the way) is having a special group buy on a Sako TRG 22 chambered in .260 Rem. That said, I’m not sure if that deal is still going on. If I was to buy a 6.5, I’m leaning more toward the 6.5CM because Hornady makes good/affordable brass, but I suppose I could use my .308 brass and neck it down to .260.

On a related note, I’m fortunate to have free and unlimited access at a private 1,000 yard range that was recently built behind my home, but I haven’t yet taken my .308 past 600 yards. Coincidently, Euro Optics has a TRG 42 in 300 Win Mag on sale for $2,400 which is very tempting. However, I worry the 300 may be less than enjoyable to shoot all afternoon so I’m leaning more toward the .308 or 6.5mm if I can swing the coin.

Please feel free to share your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I posted my comments in your post at ARFCOM, but I will also comment here.

You will not be disappointed with the AE MkII.

 

[matt33]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I posted my comments in your post at ARFCOM, but I will also comment here.

You will not be disappointed with the AE MkII. </div></div>
Thanks. I post a lot more over there, but I though I might get more traffic here. Your posts have been very helpful and your AI review was awesome. That's what's really making this choice more difficult for me. Yesterday afternoon, I was leaning heavily toward selling my R5 and buying a TRG 22 in .308. Now, I'm leaning more toward saving a little longer and getting the AI AE in 6.5 CM, but the TRG 22 in .260 is also intriguing.

 

[SFTexan]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

You can't go wrong with the TRG or the AE MkII. Best thing you can do is try to get some range time on both and then go with the one that fits you-at a minimum get your hands on them to get a "feel" even if you can't shoot 'em. It sounds like you have a good, solid set up now and holding on to that for a few months to get the extra cash for the MkII would be worth it-if you go that route. I personally think, the TRG-22 in .308 is going to be exactly what you're after. You'll save a little money, be able to easily use all 1000 meters of your range, and you'll have a gun that shoots as well as any custom build out there.

 

[GorbashUK]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

Both great, peas in a pod. TRG stock fits me better, AI stock fits my shooting buddy better, pay your money and take your choice. You will NOT outshoot either rifle. Go .308, more shooting for the money and none of that nasty flinch inducing recoil.

 

[Mike]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

TRG is a fantastic rifle however, you can't go wrong with either

 

[Adam B]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

Having owned both I will say they are both great guns. I do prefer the TRG, I feel the stock is easier to get behind the bolt is a bit smoother to operate than the AIAE but those are my personal preferences, ymmv. If you do like the TRG take a look at what krg-ops.com is bringing out, that AICS mag conversion looks sweet.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I'd die for a 1000yd range on my back door step, I'd NEVER go to work! Make the most of it!

+1 on staying with the 308 on more shooting for the money.

LoneWolfUSMC's review tells it how it is - I have an AW, not an AE but I'd say all AI's are built to last and great shooters.

You hear a lot of talk about the initial cost of an AI compared to the Sako but then the cost of accessories is higher on the TRG (so they say).

If you have the chance, get behind both and see which you prefer.

I'm a died-in-the-wool AI guy but as others have said, you can't go to far wrong with either.

It's going to come down to personal preference.

One thing I would definitley say is, if needs be, wait a little longer and put together the money for whichever is the most expensive. then you know your decision is based on the right criteria (the rifle) and not just financial issues.

There's nothing worse than having to make a choice based only on money and then spending the next months/years wondering if you did the right thing....or even worse regretting your buy!

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I have a TRG-22. For me it was the most comfortable choice, as I have never felt that great behind the AI stock. So, take SFTexan's advice and try to get behind both of them. Get whichever feels the best for you. They are both equally capable, durable, and well built. You will not be giving anything up by choosing one over the other.

Josh

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I'm partial to AIs and would recommend the AE MkII. Though Sako makes a great rifle so you shouldn't be disappointed with either.

 

[matt33]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I'm going to stop at Euro Optics next week and sit behind both the Accuracy International and the Sako TRG. With all of the .308 reloading gear I have, I think I will stay with .308 regardless of which rifle I select. After this choice is made, I'll start saving for a 6.5mm, then a .338 LM, and so on. I'm coming to terms with the fact that this sickness dwarfs Black Rifle Disease. Having a 1,000 yard range behind me and Euro Optics down the road is having a negative impact on my checking account balance.

 

[bm11]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I own a TRG-22 folder and an AIAW, and I will say, like many others on here, that you can't go wrong with either!

 

[johndoe]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

It's win win either way. I run both but the Trg is way more comfy
to shoot and it's lighter.

 

[Katahdin]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I didn't realize the AI AE could be had in 6.5 CM; that's really my dream setup.</div></div>

You answered your own question already in your post, now just figure out a way to get the money required. The 6.5 is a great cartridge and the AI AE is a great platform, go for it! Sometimes the best things in life are worth waiting for, save your pennys!

 

[matt33]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Katahdin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I didn't realize the AI AE could be had in 6.5 CM; that's really my dream setup.</div></div>

You answered your own question already in your post, now just figure out a way to get the money required. The 6.5 is a great cartridge and the AI AE is a great platform, go for it! Sometimes the best things in life are worth waiting for, save your pennys! </div></div>
Unfortunately, upon further inquiry, the AI AE MKII is not currently available in 6.5 CM. Per Jonathan from SRT Supply, he can hook me up with an AI AE MKII in .308 for $2,995. Locally, the Sako TRG 22 in .308 is $2,698 plus 6% tax. Once a BO rail is added to the TRG (a rail is included on the AI), my actual cost for either the TRG or the AI is the same.

I’m almost 100% sure I’m going to stick with the .308 and add a 6.5 rifle to my stable down the road. I’ve got a ton of .308 reloading components and I’m comfortable enough with the round to stick with it. I’m going to sit behind both the AI and the TRG next week and see how each feels. Without starting a shit storm, I was wondering if in general terms, either the AI or the TRG are considered to be more accurate than the other? Accuracy and comfort are the criteria that I’m still not sure about. I’ll have a good idea about comfort next week, but if anyone has any input on accuracy of these two compared to each other, please share your thoughts.

 

[SFTexan]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

As for accuracy, you will be the weak link. Glass and ammo will play a part as well, but every TRG-22 and AI I have ever seen made bug holes as long as the guy on the trigger didn't screw the shot up.

 

[MEDICGORDO]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

this is the same response i posted on the guy asking about the ae vs aw series.accuracy between the two could be summed up like this,if a hot redhead and a hot asian walked up to me then ask two choose one my answer would simply be "YES"

 

[zunrj5]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

SFT is right. The tigger monkey is most definitely the weakest link when it comes to these platforms. I own an AW and two TRGs; all 3 are top notch shooters but for me personally the TRGs are more comfortable and a bit easier to shoot. I would suggest trying both platforms out if you can and see what works for you. Either way you won't be disappointed.

Also, my other TRG is a WM with the Elite Iron "Max Tac" brake, which = all day comfort.

-John

 

[Conqueror]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

Have handled but not shot the AE, own a TRG-22. As many have said, the only difference is your personal comfort behind the rifle, as they are both incredibly capable guns.

 

[Brettdec]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I will happily meet up with you at the 1,000 yard range sometime to give you some good advice. As we load our rifles and shoot, these are the points that I will probably make as our thoughts become truly clear....

1. I just went through the same process. I had a limited budget to set up a single precision rifle and cannot afford a collection of highly expensive toys. The purpose here is performance within a price envelope. SO, I now own a TRG-22.

2. I went through the process of owning a stock Remington PSS and parting with it vowing that Remington would have to spend more than $11 on their barrels before I would buy another. It never did season properly or shoot better than 3/4 inch despite the finest of benchrest loading, shooting and cleaning practices. Many fellow shooters I know had similar experiences with the same turn of the century vintage remington 700's. I wasted tons of money in gunsmithing and ammo in vain. The worst part was my lost time. I can never get that back.

3. I have experience both selling guns and using them as part of my job, I cannot with a clear conscience advise you to switch over to a new caliber if the word "budget" is in your vocabulary. You are currently in the .308 business. Stay there... It's a good business!

4. This should clarify your decision...Take 2 sheets of paper and inventory every single item you will ultimately NEED and BUY for each different platform. Yes, this means 3 mags, a bipod and the muzzle brake. Check suppliers actual inventory and sales prices. Tally your spreadsheet of everything that you will eventually own and you now have a starting point to consider. NOW take another sheet and tally the costs for a caliber change. Consider dies, brass, bullets, different powders, cleaning rods, patches, etc... You will see that by the time you have purchased the inventories you need to get started with your barrel break in and load testing, you will be
invested to the tune of a grand at the least. Ten years from now you will kick yourself for not staying with the .308 that everyone else wants and shoots. By 2020 the rage caliber will be something like ".257 Lapua" or some other exotic match winning development. The 6.5 CM will most likely be a bargain bin item. but commonality and availability of the .308 will still make sense. It is easier to load for and extract accuracy from than the .300 Win mag you are considering too. I owned that caliber too.

5. How do I like the TRG-22? Just as a camera is ultimately about the lens. The rifle is ultimately about the barrel. I am a little over halfway through seasoning the bore and things are looking good. Group sizes with Lapua scenar 167 gr. factory ammo is in the 3/4 to 1 MOA range for the first 10 (3 shot) groups. Velocities out of the 20" barrel chrono'd 2,500 fps. Shot patterns were a bit erratic with all the cleaning going on but steady improvement was noticeable, then settling in to 1/2 to 1/4 MOA for the last 3 groups, which were 185 grain scenars at 2,350 fps. Still much to be done with load development and I can't wait until the brake arrives. Recoil was stiffer than I thought considering the weight of the rifle... and I have read that the brake enhances accuracy. Here's hoping!
I was a bit worried about the condition of the barrel when I initially cleaned the factory fired bore. It took a while before I got rid of the copper fouling. Then it seemed to take more effort than expected to clean after the initial rounds, but it seems to be improving nicely. Definitely not up to the standards of the custom bores that I own which merely require a wet and a dry patch to come completely clean - even when new, but a far cry from the factory Remington pipe that I never could get seasoned-even after hundreds of rounds. BTW, my 80's vintage 700 BDL was a vastly better quality bore than the 2000 PSS. For SHAME!
I found the stock and the trigger to be excellent. The size and shape of the palm surfaces made for a great backup platform for the squeeze. I love the easy adjustability of the trigger and the superior break it has. I haven't even gotten to adjusting the angles yet. Hope I don't get too spoiled.

All in all, I think I have a keeper. I have dumped every rifle I ever bought that did not display superior accuracy. Who wants a disappointing and uninteresting chunk of metal that wrecks one's confidence in their marksmanship? Nobody, that's who! Too there is not an open bazaar at every rifle range where manufacturers compete for your business with their bone stock rifles. The results being posted for all to see. Until this happens, I will offer these results. My 20" TRG shoots half MOA groups off of a harris bipod factory ammo in less than an hour of range time. I can only see this relationship getting better.

Good Luck!

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

Brett De Campos,

What an interesting read. Hope you have time for some questions:

What is "seasoning" a barrel? I season chickens, but never barrels. Perhaps you can expound on that.

Shot patterns were erratic with all the cleaning going on? Is your rifle undergoing a white glove inspection? If not why the devil are you cleaning it?

Let's see, 3/4" groups and $800 dollars spent on a Rem 700 PSS is unacceptable. But $3k spent on a Sako Trg 22 and 3/4" groups (first 10-3 shot ones you quoted) is outstanding???

Wait, your barrel is only half way to "seasoning"? I hope it tastes better fully seasoned.

Kidding aside I think the TRG 22 and the AI-AE are both great rifles, and will shoot great without much cleaning, and leave the seasoning to the chicken.....please.

Enjoy your rifle.

Bob

 

[sgj2025]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

^^^

 

[Brettdec]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

Bob,

Thanks for the kidding, perhaps it would have helped if I used the term "break in" I know that "seasoning" is a somewhat controversial concept. In 30 years of shooting rifles, I have found that factory bores tend to be rougher and not as highly polished as customs. They pick up copper cladding easier and cost accuracy - then it takes tons of time to get them truly clean. By cleaning thoroughly after each shot initially, the bullets themselves polish and burnish the bore surfaces yielding a more accurate barrel that is easier to clean.

As far as the Remmy, it NEVER shot a group better than 3/4. Not once! I had the crown recut and bedding cleaned up, trigger reworked, etc... I ran through dozens of combinations reloads and seating depths. It usually printed 1-1/2 inches. I gave up on it when I realized the problem was the quality of the barrel. It took forever to clean and cladded copper. The next serial number gun out of the factory was owned by a friend. That rifle had a chamber so eccentric that it was impossible to lift the bolt after firing. Remingon fixed it, but that gun was inaccurate as well. Other friends and associates had these in both .300 wm or .308 with similar results. All of them are now sold off. The .22 bores seemed to do much better. I have seen them shoot consistently 1/2"

The TRG did not throw a single shot outside 1 MOA. After 35-40 rounds, it did not throw anything outside 1/2 MOA. This is before break in has finished and load development has even begun. It has yet to shoot with the advantage of fired brass.

Yes, the devil is in the details. A precision rifle that can't produce same hole performance is unacceptable to me no matter how affordable it is. I hate having to spend $2,580 bucks to get there, but that is the reality. My preference would have been a GAP or McMillan, but that would mean even more money AND a wait.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

i love the TRG 22, I sold both my remy shortly after shooting it at a couple F class match improving my scores.
I recently won the 51 NRA long range regional championship held at 29 palm with my TRG 22 and an IOR scope, beating several remy shooters. it fits me way better and i didn't have to do anything to it out of the box but adjust the cheeck piece and zero the scope.
hope this helps.

 

[Brettdec]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I should probably add that it HAS been a decade since my compadres and I gave up on Remington factory rifles. My sincere hope is that they have completely corrected their Q/C issues and that this kind of thing never happens again.

Any Remington owners with later production factory rifles getting better than consistent 1/2 MOA with 30 cal. barrels?

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

All I can say is the most accurite rifles on our planet are all Remington 700 based, not factory Remington, but Rem 700 based, so with that being said look into a full on custom from GAP, Surgeon, Terry Cross, Shunkworks, whatever and get it exactly the way you want it, don't spend custom gun money on a production weapon.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is the most accurite rifles on our planet are all Remington 700 based, not factory Remington, but Rem 700 based, so with that being said look into a full on custom from GAP, Surgeon, Terry Cross, Shunkworks, whatever and get it exactly the way you want it, don't spend custom gun money on a production weapon.</div></div>

in what way is a custom 700 better than a trg or ai ae rebarreled to whatever caliber/contour you want.

both have great triggers, great actions, fully adjustable chassis, fantastic bipods, great mag systems and all are field proven reliable. i have owned many customs and just a month ago got my first trg and after one session with it i wondered why i waited so long.

 

[Mschloss]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

I went with the TRG42 in .300WM over the TRG22. With the brake, it is a pussy cat to shoot (not so much for the shooters on either side). On a normal day at the range, I can easily put 100 rounds through her and could fire 100 more. My son who is 13, loves to shoot this rig as well. You obviously reload and doing so for the .300 is a pleasure. With an average of 5 reloads/brass I can put together a round for about 80 cents (208g amax's with H1000).

I also purchased from Alex and was exceedingly happy with the price/transaction.

 

[bm11]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mschloss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went with the TRG42 in .300WM over the TRG22. With the brake, it is a pussy cat to shoot (not so much for the shooters on either side). On a normal day at the range, I can easily put 100 rounds through her and could fire 100 more. My son who is 13, loves to shoot this rig as well. You obviously reload and doing so for the .300 is a pleasure. With an average of 5 reloads/brass I can put together a round for about 80 cents (208g amax's with H1000).

I also purchased from Alex and was exceedingly happy with the price/transaction.
</div></div>The downside to the 300 win mag from what I see is that if you do put 100 rounds through in a range session, you are re barreling in 15 or so range sessions.

 

[mgd45]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guapomatic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I should probably add that it HAS been a decade since my compadres and I gave up on Remington factory rifles. My sincere hope is that they have completely corrected their Q/C issues and that this kind of thing never happens again.

Any Remington owners with later production factory rifles getting better than consistent 1/2 MOA with 30 cal. barrels?

</div></div>

Not to start an argument with you, but I think your expecting too much out of a factory rifle. If you want a precision accurate Remington, then you either buy one from their custom shop or you spend money making it more accurate with a custom barrel & other work.

I have a newer 700 PSS in .0308. It definitely shoots sub MOA & even dipped below 1/2 MOA a few times......but it's normally around a 3/4 MOA rifle. However, I can't complain when it cost under $900.

Show me another factory rifle company that sells a 1/2 MOA rifle for under $1000.....I can't find one, which is why the AI & TRG start off over $2000....you get what you pay for....

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guapomatic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I should probably add that it HAS been a decade since my compadres and I gave up on Remington factory rifles. My sincere hope is that they have completely corrected their Q/C issues and that this kind of thing never happens again.

Any Remington owners with later production factory rifles getting better than consistent 1/2 MOA with 30 cal. barrels?

</div></div>
my LTR shoots lights out when I don't goof it up =] I think I got it used off a hide member for 750 bucks shipped, and it's sitting underneath a USO ST-10 scope that has lots of options but can be had in it's simplest form for under a grand as well. Burris Rings and a USO Base and the whole setup is around 2 grand and chunks 168grain Federal Gold Medal Match rounds downrange into cloverleafs all day long.


that being said I just put it in an AICS, and will probably screw in a new .260 barrel in the next thousand rounds!

If I ever get good enough to justify it I'll jump into an AIAW in 300 or 338.

 

[matt33]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

OP here:
I sincerely appreciate all of your replies. I’ve read through a ton of good info in this thread. Last Friday, I stopped at Euro Optics here in PA and fondled both the Sako TRG-22 and the AI AE MKII. I was extremely impressed with both rifles. In the end, I liked the ergonomics of the TRG slightly more, I liked that the TRG was significantly lighter, but most of all, the Sako trigger was amazing.

Alex and Jason were a pleasure to deal with. They gave me a great deal ($200 cheaper than any quote I found online). I put $500 down on the TRG and hope to get back in a couple weeks to pick it up.

The fact that these guys have an unbelievable selection of fine optics is not helping my resolution to become a better saver. After looking through several nice scopes outside (S&B, USO, NF,…), I decided to upgrade in that area as well. Now, I'm planning on selling my Leupold 6.5-20x50mm MK4 TMR and switching to NF. The Leupold has been great, but mil/mil, zero stop, HS turrets, and lit reticle seem like worthwhile upgrades. It may be a couple more months before I have the new scope, bipod, Sako 3 ring mount, and some spare magazines, but in the end I think I made the right choice.

 

[ARsR4ME]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or

The thing I notice is the ergonomics of the guns. Ya my 5R shoots good too and the difference between 1/2 moa and 3/4 isn't shit when you shoot more than 300 yards. You can miss read the wind that 1/4 moa difference. The TRG just fit me so much better than my 5r does that I'm even lookin into a stock that mimics the trg just to get that feel. The actions of the AI and TRG were smoother than a 700 but does that shave off moa? Whats a fraction of a second, but the feel of it all is whats swaying me I don'tIMHO

 

[bolloxinaspanner]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

" I’m thinking about selling the R5 and putting the funds toward a Sako TRG 22 or something similar."

matt33,
I think whoever buys your R5 is going to get the deal. You didn't mention why you want to sell the R5. Is it to get an AISC mag compatible repeater? I had Gary modify my R5 to accept the RTS lower and now I have a modular rig. R5 for XTC with 6BR and RTS for .308 or 6XC for tactical matches. Both setups are ideal for their purpose. Fully adjustable and completely DIY. Or if you have the odd 700 Rem. beater in the back of your safe you can convert that into a dedicated RTS for much less than either an AI or a TRG and put the savings towards glass. Problem solved, no applause, please, please... I do this for completely humanitarian reasons.

 

[bolloxinaspanner]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

Hmmm, did you mean 5R? Because that is completely different than an R5....
check this out - http://competitionshootingstuff.com/

 

[matt33]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bolloxinaspanner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm, did you mean 5R? Because that is completely different than an R5....
check this out - http://competitionshootingstuff.com/ </div></div>
I meant Remington 5R. I had some mental dyslexia when I posted this thread. I already sold it for what I paid. I think we both got a good deal. Here's what I had:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=824829&light=

BTW, in the near future, I'm going to sell the pictured Leupold MK4 6.5-20x50mm (TMR reticle, model# 60080) and medium Seekins rings. Both were purchased new and still look 100% new. The scope has no ring marks. If anyone is interested, feel free to send me an IM.

 

[Brettdec]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

You are right that my expectations are too high for the current situation. Here's the funny thing about that. The first centerfire rifle I ever owned was a 700 BDL in .222, built in the dawn of the eighties. After glass bedding and load workups, THAT rifle shot consistently 1/4 MOA! I had a few that measured 1/8"...... I wish I still had it. Remington was the company that spoiled me in the first place. My Dad had a massive collection of 40XB's and BDL's that were all tack drivers. So my perception WAS completely warped. Then it was warped the OTHER way ten years ago.

At any rate, it is true that you get what you pay for. (in a comparative way) I'm not comparing rifles in different price categories either. $2,000 extra bucks should damn well buy a rifle at least twice as accurate. It should also make you a sandwich and hand you a beer at the end of the day. Alas, they are cold, dead steel and only do what they are capable of.

I will put this out there though. In my personal experience, Remington shipped a better barrel 30 years ago than they do today. I would love to talk to the guy who really knows what their manufacturing processes were back then and how they have changed over the years. My main question would be - What would it really cost to slap on a tube as good as the ones I grew up shooting?

 

[matt33]

Re: Considering selling my R5 and buying a TRG or AIAE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guapomatic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You are right that my expectations are too high for the current situation. Here's the funny thing about that. The first centerfire rifle I ever owned was a 700 BDL in .222, built in the dawn of the eighties. After glass bedding and load workups, THAT rifle shot consistently 1/4 MOA! I had a few that measured 1/8"...... I wish I still had it. Remington was the company that spoiled me in the first place. My Dad had a massive collection of 40XB's and BDL's that were all tack drivers. So my perception WAS completely warped. Then it was warped the OTHER way ten years ago.

At any rate, it is true that you get what you pay for. (in a comparative way) I'm not comparing rifles in different price categories either. $2,000 extra bucks should damn well buy a rifle at least twice as accurate. It should also make you a sandwich and hand you a beer at the end of the day. Alas, they are cold, dead steel and only do what they are capable of.

I will put this out there though. In my personal experience, Remington shipped a better barrel 30 years ago than they do today. I would love to talk to the guy who really knows what their manufacturing processes were back then and how they have changed over the years. My main question would be - What would it really cost to slap on a tube as good as the ones I grew up shooting?

</div></div>
I will say that my 5R shot as well as any rifle in the $1,000 price range that I've ever owned. I was able to flirt with .5 MOA several times (including a couple of groups quite a bit smaller than that) and I don't recall having ever shot a group larger than 1 MOA. I shoot 5 round groups, not 3.

However, I agree that Remington seems to release some lemons as well. I've seen new guns that couldn't get below 2 MOA.