Convince me that the 7-08 AI is a good idea.

[fdkay]

I have a 7-08 with a 26" Rock barrel.
My primary bullet will be the 162 class from Hornady.
I am always looking for just a bit more velocity, but I don't want to hassle with the .284 Win and the possible feeding issues.
The rifle is equipped with a .473 bolt face, so this one WON'T be a SAUM.
Those with experience, is it worth it?
What powders have you found to work best with the case volume and bullet I've chosen?
What type of velocities could I expect at sea level with a 26" barrel?

 

[TimeWillTell]

So no input on a 7-08 AI but one I've been seeing a lot about lately is the 7 mm SAW which is a similar variety. What I read had forming 308 brass in one pass so I'd think your existing 7-08 brass would work. Supposedly the 7mm SAW will push a 162 Hornady to 2850-2900 in 26" barrel.

I don't have one and I don't know that I'll build one ever as I'm partial to the 6.5s, but interesting nonetheless

https://westtexordnance.com/7mm-saw/

 

[fdkay]

So no input on a 7-08 AI but one I've been seeing a lot about lately is the 7 mm SAW which is a similar variety. What I read had forming 308 brass in one pass so I'd think your existing 7-08 brass would work. Supposedly the 7mm SAW will push a 162 Hornady to 2850-2900 in 26" barrel.

I don't have one and I don't know that I'll build one ever as I'm partial to the 6.5s, but interesting nonetheless

https://westtexordnance.com/7mm-saw/

I could probably do much of that with the 162's in a standard 7-08 using small primer pocket brass.
The problem there is the brass the is a dollar a piece, which means I'd be crawling around on the ground looking for it, because I'm a cheap bastard.
If someone besides lapua made the brass, I might give it a go.

 

[TimeWillTell]

I could probably do much of that with the 162's in a standard 7-08 using small primer pocket brass.
The problem there is the brass the is a dollar a piece, which means I'd be crawling around on the ground looking for it, because I'm a cheap bastard.
If someone besides lapua made the brass, I might give it a go.

Yeah I honestly have no idea what typical performance is in real life of a 7-08. Like I said, just saw a lot of talk about the SAW recently. Just thought I'd throw a new option in there.

 

[fdkay]

Yeah I honestly have no idea what typical performance is in real life of a 7-08. Like I said, just saw a lot of talk about the SAW recently. Just thought I'd throw a new option in there.

Input is always welcome, thanks

 

[Supersubes]

Gaining 50-100 fps doesn’t seem worth it to me. Haven’t done a 7-08 AI personally, but I’ve researched them, as well as a bunch of other AI’s of similar capacity.

 

[dino67]

I've just rebarreled a Tikka that was originally in 7-08 that I've been using in Tactical/Precision comps out to 1000 yards. Was using Berger 168gr Classics and have used alliant 2000-MR and RL 17 with velocity right at 2800fps with both powders - Lapua Brass. Have also run H4350 but velocity just over 2700fps. The rifle was factory apart from dropped into a chassis and lighter trigger spring. This rifle won 4 out of the 5 comps in 2016 against AI's, DTA, Customs etc. I've shot it successfully out to a mile in private comps. The standard barrel did not want to shoot 162gr ELD-M's. The BC on these is very high so when time for another barrel it made sense to tailor it for these projectiles.

Now running a 26" 1in8 twist throated to have the ELD-M's on the lands at 2.960". I'll be running Lapua Palma brass necked down and 2000-MR. I saw 2850fps with this powder with the 168's in the factory tikka barrel with no silly signs of pressure. The ELD has a longer bearing surface, I'm hoping I can find a decent node over 2800fps in the new barrel. Factory Tikka is quite long throated so it helped get the speed without stupid pressure.

I've got a 6 Dasher and a lot of mates running the 6.5's. Personally I feel the 7mm's hold up better in windy conditions.

The ballistics on this aren't all that far behind my 7 RSAUM running 180gr Berger Hybrids at 2900fps.

 

[fdkay]

I've just rebarreled a Tikka that was originally in 7-08 that I've been using in Tactical/Precision comps out to 1000 yards. Was using Berger 168gr Classics and have used alliant 2000-MR and RL 17 with velocity right at 2800fps with both powders - Lapua Brass. Have also run H4350 but velocity just over 2700fps. The rifle was factory apart from dropped into a chassis and lighter trigger spring. This rifle won 4 out of the 5 comps in 2016 against AI's, DTA, Customs etc. I've shot it successfully out to a mile in private comps. The standard barrel did not want to shoot 162gr ELD-M's. The BC on these is very high so when time for another barrel it made sense to tailor it for these projectiles.

Now running a 26" 1in8 twist throated to have the ELD-M's on the lands at 2.960". I'll be running Lapua Palma brass necked down and 2000-MR. I saw 2850fps with this powder with the 168's in the factory tikka barrel with no silly signs of pressure. The ELD has a longer bearing surface, I'm hoping I can find a decent node over 2800fps in the new barrel. Factory Tikka is quite long throated so it helped get the speed without stupid pressure.

I've got a 6 Dasher and a lot of mates running the 6.5's. Personally I feel the 7mm's hold up better in windy conditions.

The ballistics on this aren't all that far behind my 7 RSAUM running 180gr Berger Hybrids at 2900fps.

Thanks for the reply. I have been considering small primer brass, the price on the Lapua is pretty steep, but Starline is making it now, as well as a company called Alpha something or other.
What was the charges with the MR 2000 and RL17?
Were your loads with the RL17 accurate?
I have a friend that has some, he wasn't thrilled with the results. I've been looking into the RL17, it seems you have to run it hot.

 

[steve123]

Just wondering, how a 6.5Creed necked up to 7mm and AI'd would do, considering those 180 ELDM's/.796BC could be used at mag length/ I think anyway??? I have a 4" advantage at 600Y in a 10mph wind at 2650 fps vs the 162 going 2800 and only getting better going forward.

 

[fdkay]

Just wondering, how a 6.5Creed necked up to 7mm and AI'd would do, considering those 180 ELDM's/.796BC could be used at mag length/ I think anyway??? I have a 4" advantage at 600Y in a 10mph wind at 2650 fps vs the 162 going 2800 and only getting better going forward.

That is very similar to the 7 IMSHA load that has been around for several decades. It was formed from .300 savage brass and was the darling of the pistol silhouette crowd as they could use light bullets for the chickens, pigs and turkeys then move up to the 130-140 class for the rams. Lower recoil and higher BC's than the .308, more ass than the .243.
I have decided to try some starline SRP brass in my standard 7-08 with the 162's.

 

[steve123]

That is very similar to the 7 IMSHA load that has been around for several decades. It was formed from .300 savage brass and was the darling of the pistol silhouette crowd as they could use light bullets for the chickens, pigs and turkeys then move up to the 130-140 class for the rams. Lower recoil and higher BC's than the .308, more ass than the .243.
I have decided to try some starline SRP brass in my standard 7-08 with the 162's.

Sure that's worth a try. I didn't mention it but that's what I had in mind for 7 Creed AI, the SRP brass. Also the neck could be shortened to gain some more powder capacity. That .796 BC is just so appealing to me.

6mmFatRat has a really short neck, even in a semiauto I haven't had any problems and it's a very accurate cartridge. Probably more consistent neck tension because of that short neck too.

I was talking to a friend who told me one of his ELR cohorts had the record for hits in a row in their group at 1900Y on a 15" plate with 284 Win. Also it's the go-to in F class. I'm very tempted to try it. Basically the thing is the small vertical it provides at distance compared to the big cartridges.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Tagging in as I have a Rem700 SA and a Bartlein 7mm 9 twist 2b contour barrel sitting in the safe. Would love to do a 20” 708AI threaded for my Ultra 7. Would make a handy hunting rifle...

 

[Grand]

I shoot a Borden 7-08AI hunting rifle loaded with 120g Barnes TTSX. Standard BDL magazine. Great combo. Tried VLD's but constrained by 2.8 mag box. You will need Detachable Mag to run max OAL to see gains with VLDs. Case forming is no big deal in a low volume rig. Would not recommend for comp rig.

 

[264win]

No experience with the 7-08 improved, but I ran a 26” 7-08 barrel on my AIAE for a few years and liked it. Velocity wise I could get 2800 + with 162s and 2700 plus with 175 smk running h3450 and lg rifle primers. Neither load was hot (10+ reloads on Winchester brass)
With RL powders a little more speed is probably possible

 

[b6graham]

7SAW. faster than an AI without fireforming

 

[Grand]

The 7SAW is based on .308 Palma small primer case with slightly steeper neck. No increase in case capacity, probably decrease capacity due to thicker brass. Relies on higher pressures, and longer seating in AIAW magazine to achieve claimed increases. Since the neck angle increases, you are still fire forming.

 

[b6graham]

The 7SAW is based on .308 Palma small primer case with slightly steeper neck. No increase in case capacity, probably decrease capacity due to thicker brass. Relies on higher pressures, and longer seating in AIAW magazine to achieve claimed increases.

or the new headstamped brass
can use normal AI/binder plate mags just fine.
https://westtexordnance.com/7mm-saw-barrel-length-and-power-tests/

 

[lestersurv]

Your instincts are right... Not that much to gain. If you have a long action, and you might... The .280AI is The Ticket... Great performance almost rivaling the 7mm rem mag with heavy bullets. I did improve a .308win chamber once and it was great with 200gr Sierras, but.. Never improved another one; although .30-06AI and .338-06AI and .35Whelen AI (owned them too) all performed with excellence.

I would choose the .284 for its attributes especially not needing custom dies. Shouldn't be any feeding issues with the .500 diameter case body, plus your boltface is good to go. Not gonna need rail thining. A long action allows bullet seating at optimum length. Easy to get that tapered expander from Redding to neck-up .260 lapuas.

I dunnno if German Salazars page with all his info on .30-06 longrange competition is still up, but look there for insight if concerned about longrange preciison. The .280AI is one of The Best as long as you're loading heavies.