Night Vision COTI or…

[rlsmith1]

I’m not paying $8k for an E-COTI. Not in the budget and returns (detection and weight savings) don’t seem to be worth it for me.

That leaves the Jerry C for $5k + your soul or the PAS29 COTI for a little under $3k from euro optic.

Was mostly satisfied with the COTI (even at 5.8oz) until I saw this page. Commi COTI for $4.1k with a battery pack out of Estonia. Cool, but what’s crazy is the advertised weight of 2.75oz. Lighter than E COTI and half the weight of the COTI with better capabilities.

Knock some sense into me please.

Currently running dual 14’s (29oz)so saving weight is really nice at this point. Hope to upgrade to binos before too long and I don’t want to waste the weight savings on a COTI if I don’t have to. I’m mostly set on a COTI of some type but would love to hear how often you guys are actually using them. I train and coyote hunt as well as just spend time out at night and don’t want to miss heat signatures. Have a NOX18 I bridge occasionally but it’s not true fusion and I like to have that on a loaner rifle when I’m not using it as a scanner

 

[wigwamitus]

Chinese is chinese where ever they ship 'em from

The COTI's strength is enhancing shooting with laser. If you aren't shooting regularly with the laser, you don't need a COTI, stick with the NOX-18 instead and swap one of your 14s for a thermal when needing a spotter hands free while on the move.

If shooting regularly with laser, then a COTI enables very fast engagements without need for Illum.

In the warm half of the year especially, I get most of my critters with mk18-ish+laser+14+coti as there is too much vegetation to shoot THRU the woods with the rifles.

But COTI's are NOT mini-skeets and PID beyond 150yds is problematic.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Wig is correct in his assessment. But I would add this.

A Pas 29 COTI is a "early warning system" to me.

Point being, at 150 to 400 yards you might not know what it is, but it tells you heads up "investigate more" ~~ "live critter" especially when you have it set on the correct settings.

A working 24/7 Head Mounted Thermal Fusion "early warning system" is the biggest value of the Pas 29 COTI to me.

 

[rlsmith1]

Totally agree and don’t expect to tell the difference between a deer or yote at 150+. However, I do expect to know something is there. Nearly every rifle I have has a laser so that’s something I do almost exclusively inside 200.

Sounds like you guys haven’t blinked at the weight of the COTI and the performance hasn’t left you wanting if all you’re after is detection?

The Jerry C is as Chinese as it gets no matter who sells it. That means a lot of things but one of those things is a better sensor for cheaper (and in this case, lighter).

When commenting on the Yoter C @The King said “I hate this thing because I want it to be a Chinese piece of shit and it isn’t. Or even close to it.” I’m wondering if the same is true about the Jerry C.

Sounds like you guys are happy with the COTI and run it often? Appreciate the info

 

[wigwamitus]

... The Jerry C is as Chinese as it gets no matter who sells it. That means a lot of things but one of those things is a better sensor for cheaper (and in this case, lighter) ..

But also means, far more likely to break under field conditions (so far, every chinese unit I've had has broken in the field, fairly quickly). And also means financially supporting those who would destroy you !!!

But as long as this is a free country, we're all allowed to make those choices !!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Talking about weight, the Pano's are what the cool kids all want and some Tier 1 are running.

Pano's weigh as much or more that a set of bridged 14's. Point I am getting at is that weight mainly gets discussed depending on what is being sold or hawked. "Mine is lighter so buy mine."

Id take a set of bridged 14's with a Pas 29 COTI over a Pano (even with a Coti attached) for a lot of reasons.

 

[WhereNow&How]

But as long as this is a free country, we're all allowed to make those choices !!

Well, ain't quite sure about that free country anymore.

Buck Fiden is trying to force us to take that Jim Jones Jungle Juice.

When you cannot control what goes into your body, you ain't free no more.

But I'm still free to put on my NODS, freedom stick, and freedom seeds for now.

 

[wigwamitus]

Talking about PID ... when people ask me "how far out can you PID with that thermal?"

I used to say "about 239,000" because every thermal I've had can usually see the moon if its there".

But lately I say, "How long do I have?" Because time is a key factor. And BTW, people also ask, "Is thermal image-x better than thermal image-y ?" And I really don't know what that means. So I ask "Which thermal can PID smaller critters, farther out, faster?"

Of course, even "PID" needs a definition ... and that boils down to "Is it a target under my current ROE?" (that's to The German for inspiring that definition").

As an example, one night I was out closing the chicken door to the coop. When doing that, based on where the coop was then (its a mobile coop, so we move it around) I was about 45 yds from the outer edge of the apple orchard, which was on the other side of the creek. This was late fall, probably 4-5 years ago. In these conditions the "weeds" along both banks of the creek are taller than me and many stalks are bigga round as my arm. And then the apple orchard itself, so lots of intervening vegetation where illum wound do more harm that good anyway.
Deer often go to the apple orchard this time of year as there are at least 10,000 apples and the humans (we invite neigbors to get all they want) leave most of them. So the deer are in there and sometimes on their hind legs reaching up higher to get more apples.
Well this night I saw a "deer" reaching up on its hind legs to get an apple as I'd seen dozens of times in the past. But then I realized this "deer" was awful short and the branch it was reaching up to, was the lowest branch on that tree. Then another critter ran by and exited my FOV and it was clearly a yote cause I could see the tail (I had 14s and coti). Then the one reaching up turned to follow the yote and I realized the deer was a yote and shot it and got it.
So even when observing "behavior" (which is a key aspect of PID for me) we must be careful. If one critter "crosses over" and exhibits" the behavior of another, our brains can "see something" and interpret wrongly. In this case, my brain said it saw a deer based on the reaching up on hind legs for apples behavior" ... and deer are "no shoot" critters. But then the deer morphed into a yote and became a "shoot" critter.
So "PID is not an "instantaneous" thing based on shape alone. It is a processing of observing shape and behavior, over time. And the default is all critters are "no shoot" until proven to be "shoot". We have to convince ourselves that critters are within the ROE. Sometimes the consequences of an error can be devastating, so operate accordingly !

So, can I PID a deer with a COTI at 150yds ? Yes, BUT, I must see behavior. One night I wasn't sure if a deer was a deer or a yote at 150yds. Then the deer jumped over the fence (yotes go THRU fences not over) ... these are barbed wire fences we have out here. And further the deer exhibited the back and forth movement of its head while walking down the road. And the deer had a deer tail, not a yote tail. So the deer was a deer, no shoot.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Exactly.

For me, a 5x Magnifier slipped on a 14 and light the critter up with a hand held Luna ELIR-3 does a lot of PID where Thermal cant get it done as fast as I want it to.

 

[rlsmith1]

Well, ain't quite sure about that free country anymore.

Buck Fiden is trying to force us to take that Jim Jones Jungle Juice.

When you cannot control what goes into your body, you ain't free no more.

But I'm still free to put on my NODS, freedom stick, and freedom seeds for now.

It is a free country and I’m thankful! That’s why I want to make the right decision here. COTI or ECOTI, the PID will not be the same as a dedicated thermal or magnified image.

Appreciate the commentary on that as well wig.

My question is more if the Jerry C is worth it at the price point? Sounds like it’s worth it only if I’m a communist

My question then is how much am I settling if I spend the $ on a COTI instead of the Jerry?

I’m not going to run panos either so for me to compare dual 14’s to that is silly to me. Weight should always come with capability and I’d like to maximize capability and minimize weight. That’s why the DTNVS / BNVD UL etc. are popular.

 

[The King]

I’ll light a critter up too to see.

I don’t use a FP laser because if it’s a friendly critter - it might be blind now. I use an LED.

As for the chinesium units eating shit - if you didn’t buy with a warranty I’m sorry.

 

[WhereNow&How]

My question then is how much am I settling if I spend the $ on a COTI instead of the Jerry?

Actual effective Outline performance wise probably not much. Pas 29 COTI does well out to 400 yards for early warning system.

Jerry C has better external powering system.

Pas 29 COTI was built for "Warfighters" so in theory the quality control and build should be good to excellent given the purpose.

Jerry C ~ who knows the quality control and build. ? Only time might tell.

Pas 29 COTI is cheaper for a proven product that I would feel more comfortable at this stage relying on.

But someone always has to be the "guinea pig". That just aint me on an item like this.

Let your use dictate your decision.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I don’t use a FP laser because if it’s a friendly critter - it might be blind now. I use an LED

I have LED's also. When I do light up a critter with a Luna ELIR-3 (90 mW) version, I will have the beam spread out and Rheostat dialed back so as not to concentrate too much IR energy to do eye damage nor stay on the animal very long.

However, if said critter is a hog. Well "popping eyes" makes them even easier to sneak up on. Just kidding.

Hate them dam hogs. Ecological nightmare.

 

[rlsmith1]

Actual effective Outline performance wise probably not much. Pas 29 COTI does well out to 400 yards for early warning system.

Jerry C has better external powering system.

Pas 29 COTI was built for "Warfighters" so in theory the quality control and build should be good to excellent given the purpose.

Jerry C ~ who knows the quality control and build. ? Only time might tell.

Pas 29 COTI is cheaper for a proven product that I would feel more comfortable at this stage relying on.

But someone always has to be the "guinea pig". That just aint me on an item like this.

Let your use dictate your decision.

External power… I know there’s a couple other threads talking about powering the COTI with nonstandard packs. Any update on that? If the COTI could be trimmed to sub 5oz and increase use time with an external battery, I’d be all over it.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I think the external battery efforts are still alive. I sure hope so.

 

[The King]

I have LED's also. When I do light up a critter with a Luna ELIR-3 (90 mW) version, I will have the beam spread out and Rheostat dialed back so as not to concentrate too much IR energy to do eye damage nor stay on the animal very long.

However, if said critter is a hog. Well "popping eyes" makes them even easier to sneak up on. Just kidding.

Hate them dam hogs. Ecological nightmare.

I have no sympathy for hogs. People don’t understand - some of them not you - that hogs are a “god decided to eliminate humans from the planet” type ecological disaster.

If every person south of denver shot 200 a night it might get under control again.

 

[WindstormSCR]

I’m not paying $8k for an E-COTI. Not in the budget and returns (detection and weight savings) don’t seem to be worth it for me.

That leaves the Jerry C for $5k + your soul or the PAS29 COTI for a little under $3k from euro optic.

Was mostly satisfied with the COTI (even at 5.8oz) until I saw this page. Commi COTI for $4.1k with a battery pack out of Estonia. Cool, but what’s crazy is the advertised weight of 2.75oz. Lighter than E COTI and half the weight of the COTI with better capabilities.

Knock some sense into me please.

Currently running dual 14’s (29oz)so saving weight is really nice at this point. Hope to upgrade to binos before too long and I don’t want to waste the weight savings on a COTI if I don’t have to. I’m mostly set on a COTI of some type but would love to hear how often you guys are actually using them. I train and coyote hunt as well as just spend time out at night and don’t want to miss heat signatures. Have a NOX18 I bridge occasionally but it’s not true fusion and I like to have that on a loaner rifle when I’m not using it as a scanner

one thing to consider about the E-coti is that if you learn to make use of the ATAK integration that can be a huge gain. if that gain's worth ~2k to you or not will be subjective based on your use cases, but being able to set PoIs, nav points, etc and see those in real space can be huge.

I don't have one of my own yet, but I do drone imaging as a side business, so that's been a window into how powerful ATAK can be even for just a single user, and bringing that into the real world instead of a screen could be even more powerful.

 

[rlsmith1]

@WindstormSCR i totally agree and the fact that no one has gotten ATAK to work is why I’m not willing to put the $ down. There was another thread on here about that and if I remember right it basically came down to “not today and not never until a civilian network is stood up.”

I’d pay the $ for ECOTI for the ATAK capability for sure. I’m super excited about that and hope something like that comes to life. Only problem is .gov can keep their networks live under broader circumstances than we can (unless it’s a very local network, which would still be very useful.)

If I’m wrong and there’s a way to use ECOTI with ATAK or something similar I’d love to know

 

[WindstormSCR]

@WindstormSCR i totally agree and the fact that no one has gotten ATAK to work is why I’m not willing to put the $ down. There was another thread on here about that and if I remember right it basically came down to “not today and not never until a civilian network is stood up.”

I’d pay the $ for ECOTI for the ATAK capability for sure. I’m super excited about that and hope something like that comes to life. Only problem is .gov can keep their networks live under broader circumstances than we can (unless it’s a very local network, which would still be very useful.)

If I’m wrong and there’s a way to use ECOTI with ATAK or something similar I’d love to know

So it doesn't need a "network" to run, it just reads data off a device running a TAK implementation, the problem is that the HUD Plugin does not seem to be currently available unrestricted.

The plugins are maintained by the Military/Government originators of the TAK system, you might be able to acquire it as long as you agree not to distribute it (controlled software, etc), there may be some vetting requirements.

my guess is with the number of new products emerging that use ATAK as a base it won't be very long before we see a CivTAK plugin released that gives the majority of the HUD capabilities unrestricted, but for now you'd be best talking to a vendor and seeing if they can help you out. TNVC seems like good guys.

if you can get the plugin, then basically you're all set, as everything else can be done with standard civilian TAK packages and data.

 

[rlsmith1]

I agree with all you said except TNVC hahaha. They’ve done a lot of good for the industry but can be abrasive to some in the last. Would be very excited to see a CivTAK become a reality

 

[WindstormSCR]

I agree with all you said except TNVC hahaha. They’ve done a lot of good for the industry but can be abrasive to some in the last. Would be very excited to see a CivTAK become a reality

CivTAK very much already is, a lot of us in the drone community already use it for doing geolocation data for clients, and overlaying images. There's a lot you can do with what's already available unrestricted.

There are some features/plugins that are controlled, but generally available to users through a vetting process.

Regardless of opinions on the channel, TRex Arms did an excellent introductory video on what's out there:


To me, if you can get the plugin for the HUD capability, and have a serious use case for it, that ability is easily worth $2k+

 

[jwramp]

I see there's a 7-pin to micro-USB adapter available from Safran for TAK usage as PN 14245-3035-1 (only what, like $900 or something crazy). There's no way to connect wirelessly with the E-COTI is there, you gotta plug-in full time to have live-updated points?

 

[WindstormSCR]

I see there's a 7-pin to micro-USB adapter available from Safran for TAK usage as PN 14245-3035-1 (only what, like $900 or something crazy). There's no way to connect wirelessly with the E-COTI is there, you gotta plug-in full time to have live-updated points?

most likely yes. though I wouldn't call that a deal-breaker. Remember the E-COTI is primarily designed for military customers, and radio signature discipline is becoming as big a thing as light discipline in a lot of ways. Bluetooth and not having to deal with cables is nice, but it is still a "place modern radio-seeker here" sign.

The other factor to consider is that HUDs in general are incredibly latency sensitive, so the wired setup makes sense there as well simply because even modern bluetooth will have some degree of latency to it.

 

[jwramp]

Yeah just wanted to confirm it’s not as easy as finding a plug-in file to get it to start talking. Figure you’d need to unlock something on the device side as well, but no clue. Folks haven’t been talking about it, only saying how “the features are there, you just can’t have them”

 

[WindstormSCR]

Maybe one of the hide vendors could shed some light (heat? I guess?) on the plugin/functionality issue, maybe @DownRangeThermal or @wigwamitus . I know it would certainly help shape my future decision making on purchasing one.

 

[Totdoc]

Well.... the euro is pretty weak vs the dollar right now, so I just caved and ordered one last night... hopefully I won't regret it, but I'd really like the extra FOV vs my regular coti

 

[E-Tool]

I’m ready to pull the trigger:

E-COTI, Phenom, or MH25?

I have a super Yoter R on my rifle, and DTNVS, I need a scanner, my rifle is getting heavy.

 

[TheHorta]

Can’t use Phenom or MH25 with DTNVS.

Both will outperform eCOTI for detection.

Both are half the price of the eCOTI.

But fusion is Tittes, even if in COTI form.

The real answer to your question is:

All thermal. All the time.

 

[kirsch]

Just depends on your usage. If you want to handheld scanner, then the Phenom is a great choice. If you wear glasses and need more eye relief, the Hogster Vibe 25 would also be a nice choice. If for coyotes and helmet-mounted then either a NOX18 or a MH25. We would probably need more of your use case to provide more recommendations.

 

[rlsmith1]

Well.... the euro is pretty weak vs the dollar right now, so I just caved and ordered one last night... hopefully I won't regret it, but I'd really like the extra FOV vs my regular coti

How's that working out for you?

 

[E-Tool]

Intended usage would be coyote/pest detection, lots of walking and looking, and some static porch leering. At 50-500 yards.

 

[Totdoc]

How's that working out for you?

It took quite a while to clear customs out of Germany, but it did finally get here. I recently had a new baby and have had a total of zero nights so far to actually play with it. It looks and feels pretty solid...I have the battery pack version, and the unit itself is downright diminutive compared to my pas-29 coti. If it functions anything like the reviews I have seen of it, I think I'll be very happy. My biggest excitement for it is the larger fov of the sensor. That and a weight that has me excited to actually use it more.

 

[rlsmith1]

It took quite a while to clear customs out of Germany, but it did finally get here. I recently had a new baby and have had a total of zero nights so far to actually play with it. It looks and feels pretty solid...I have the battery pack version, and the unit itself is downright diminutive compared to my pas-29 coti. If it functions anything like the reviews I have seen of it, I think I'll be very happy. My biggest excitement for it is the larger fov of the sensor. That and a weight that has me excited to actually use it more.

Congrats! Those little things take a ton of time from what I’ve seen them do to my friends.

The battery pack version is incredibly light, excited to hear how you like it. What’s your main use?

 

[Totdoc]

Congrats! Those little things take a ton of time from what I’ve seen them do to my friends.

The battery pack version is incredibly light, excited to hear how you like it. What’s your main use?

So I initially got the pas-29 coti to run with NV binos, because I wanted some off gun always active thermal for scanning purposes while hunting.

My binos i ordered ended up not materializing in the time frame i expected, so i ended up getting a set of photonis quads instead... kind of a long story there.

I didn't want to hunt with the quads, so I ended up switching to dual band pvs 14 and a nox, since those actually fuse fairly well for me. I had toyed with the idea of keeping a coti on the 14 for when I roll up the nox to go to gun mounted thermal so I can still keep an eye on things during the transition, but it's a heavy combo, which kept me from using it.

So adding it as a secondary thermal on that hunting rig is one option.

The other use case, though, is that I might try using my photonis quads and the jerry c for hunting. I like the dual band combo, though, so it might be hard to make that change.

I spend a lot more time just goofing around at night and hiking, though, so the quads are a lot of fun for that. I do that more than hunt, but a rather large margin. Having the thermal in outline mode just for purposes of seeing if there is anything else out there with me is likely the largest use case.

I tried the pas-29 coti with the quads, but it was quite heavy, and the fov felt really narrow with the wider fov of the panos... my brain just didn't like the sensation, for some reason. Didn't really bother me with just the pvs 14

So yeah...I think the larger fov and lighter weight of the jerry c might be fun in a number of scenarios...

 

[rlsmith1]

Love it! Would love to hear your thoughts on the jerry when you get a chance!

I agree, 14 and nox is heavy but really nice

 

[E-Tool]

I’m ready to pull the trigger:

E-COTI, Phenom, or MH25?

I have a super Yoter R on my rifle, and DTNVS, I need a scanner, my rifle is getting heavy.

Now looking at the iRay micro, could fit my needs possibly replace my yoter also.

I love having all these options, just hard to make an informed decision.

 

[Totdoc]

Now looking at the iRay micro, could fit my needs possibly replace my yoter also.

I love having all these options, just hard to make an informed decision.

I tend to follow posts from jstokes1. He tends to get some really good pics and videos through many of these units, and that's really helped me figure out what I want in the clip on department.
He doesn't sell these things, but he is a very savvy thermal consumer, so I feel like his posts are unbiased. As far as i know, he doesn't currently have plans to buy the iray micro, but there's probably a good chance one will make it into his hands for a comparison, though!
As far as the yoter, though.. that's a pretty solid thermal. It's likely the biggest bang for your buck unit currently available.

 

[rlsmith1]

Now looking at the iRay micro, could fit my needs possibly replace my yoter also.

I love having all these options, just hard to make an informed decision.

Was looking hard at the Yoter too but haven’t pulled the trigger on anything China…

Seems like the Rico Micro is good to 300 yds and maybe 6x where the Yoter C is a little bigger (with 50mm lens) and is good to 12x and some have gotten PID on yotes at 800 yds.

Depends what your area is like for distances. I haven’t chosen yet but would like to before too long

 

[E-Tool]

My typical shooting area is 400yards and in usually more like 50-100. Most if the time it would just be for observation. The Falcon video on the micro looks pretty awesome, Cars at 2km, people at 4-600. I. some ways the 380 version seemed better for detection at mid range than the 640. At close a d long rNge the 640 looks way better.

With the yoter working for me, I really just need a scanner/helmet option, thats why I came here considering the ECOTI, as scan support to my dtnvs. For the miney though there are better options.

We have snakes and such, I like walking with IR, can’t imagine having the same kind of situational awareness with dual thermals.

 

[rlsmith1]

I think that falcon video had bad seating on the 640, not sure how the 384 would be better with the same lens and FOV… i thought the same thing actually.

If you’ve got the DTNVS then I’d probably get a COTI of some flavor to try (or find someone you can meet to try). It’s really attractive to have I2 and thermal detection in a package less than 20oz… I’ve got dual 14’s so the COTI is less practical for me until I get (or make) binos.

Inside 400, the larger FOV will probably be really nice compared to the Yoter

 

[Totdoc]

I think where you want to use these things is about as important as what you want to do with them.
I am in Florida, and it's hard to get a look at anything 800 yards away. Most of my use case for thermal is much much closer in. I ultimately settled on the voodoo, because it pretty much allows me to use my entire 1-10 razor, including most of the low end mag settings. Given the fov range of the new iray unit, I suspect it will be best served closer in, too, and will probably cap out around 6x before ability to pid will start to suffer. This is also why a coti is so appealing for me...I really am looking for stuff within a few hundred yards, not coyotes coming in from over 1000 yards out.
For folks out west, though, where you have much more wide open spaces, you probably want something that matches your more commonly used mag ranges. Something with a much narrower fov and more back end demag will shine for you.
I know jstokes1 was getting pid on critters at crazy distances with his yoter... even better than he was getting with his tig. His pics from that unit are really really nice. The yoter doesn't scratch the closer in itch for me, though... and neither did the tig when I had mine.

 

[Totdoc]

With the yoter working for me, I really just need a scanner/helmet option, thats why I came here considering the ECOTI, as scan support to my dtnvs. For the miney though there are better options.

Duals was what drove me to pick up a coti in the first place. My problem is that I actually bought the coti before my duals arrived, and then my duals ended up being quads... so weight started being a serious issue.
Although the sensor on the ecoti is better, the cotis aren't really a high resolution thermal like a nox or other helmet mount thermal... it's really best served in outline mode to just see that something is there to investigate with the thermal on your gun. Where the ecoti and Jerry c have the leg up on the pas29 is the fov is doubled in size... and that's really really nice.
Where the jerry c has the big advantage vs either coti is the markedly decreased weight of the battery pack powered unit vs either flavor of coti, the affordable availability of the battery pack option, and in the price....I paid somewhere in the mid to upper 3k range buying my jerry ce5 from Germany... and that makes much more sense to me than spending double the price for the ecoti, or even roughly the same price for a pas29 coti without the battery pack.
I am NOT a high speed guy. My life doesn't depend on this thing working or not. If I were kicking doors for a living, or had the ability to use the ATAK integration of the ecoti, then that might sways my decision... but I don't and I can't, so I went with the product that better fits what I need... less cost, less weight, increased fov

 

[E-Tool]

In Ky some hollers are literally only 50-150 wide. Too shoot further is ridge line to ridge line. Even in flat areas foliage reduces LoS. I had a pas-29 for about a month, it was ok, I detected deer with it at 150, cattle at 200 or so. The lack of clarity and small fov really didn’t do it for me. Also walking around scanning with the rifle sucks, I wore my arms out.

I had an MTM that I traded and it was decent and fit my needs ok, but 640 is the way to go. For small critters like rabbits, skunks, mice it was pretty difficult to ID them.

If an ECOTI would really have that 640 resolution I may still order one.

 

[DutyRanger]

Duals was what drove me to pick up a coti in the first place. My problem is that I actually bought the coti before my duals arrived, and then my duals ended up being quads... so weight started being a serious issue.
Although the sensor on the ecoti is better, the cotis aren't really a high resolution thermal like a nox or other helmet mount thermal... it's really best served in outline mode to just see that something is there to investigate with the thermal on your gun. Where the ecoti and Jerry c have the leg up on the pas29 is the fov is doubled in size... and that's really really nice.
Where the jerry c has the big advantage vs either coti is the markedly decreased weight of the battery pack powered unit vs either flavor of coti, the affordable availability of the battery pack option, and in the price....I paid somewhere in the mid to upper 3k range buying my jerry ce5 from Germany... and that makes much more sense to me than spending double the price for the ecoti, or even roughly the same price for a pas29 coti without the battery pack.
I am NOT a high speed guy. My life doesn't depend on this thing working or not. If I were kicking doors for a living, or had the ability to use the ATAK integration of the ecoti, then that might sways my decision... but I don't and I can't, so I went with the product that better fits what I need... less cost, less weight, increased fov

Sorry if I missed it earlier: did you get the Jerry c from the falcon claw outfit? How long did it take?

 

[Totdoc]

Sorry if I missed it earlier: did you get the Jerry c from the falcon claw outfit? How long did it take?

Ordered from nighttec.net on Dec 23, arrived Jan 28th. Then worked the next 4 days, followed by the early delivery of my son... which is why I haven't had time to play with it yet!

 

[DutyRanger]

. One month delivery doesn't seem bad at all. Congrats on the new little one. That obviously takes priority. Once things slow down, keep us posted on Jerry c performance.