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Night Vision COTI vs china skeet, with a little twist
- Thread starter Jgunner
- Start date
CoronaSkeet destroys COTI for everything but thermal overlay. Its not even close.
If you’re running CQB drills or breaching structures, the COTI is better. If you’re outdoors, CoronaSkeet decimates.
If you’re running CQB drills or breaching structures, the COTI is better. If you’re outdoors, CoronaSkeet decimates.
Thats what i thought. Im doing outdoor night hunting. Ill just spend the little extra
Can you expand on this?
Say you’ve got a pvs14 bridged with CoronaSkeet, would you pop off or swivel out the MH25 and run just NV if needing to do CQB stuff? Or can you run the system as duals and have as good or better performance as a single pvs14?
Does any of that change if you’re moving inside and out of structures in an urban environment (not rural)?
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Well, I’m a low-speed guy, so I’m sure there are more informed opinions on this, but I’ll take a stab...
First, neither the COTI or fake fusion (14+MH25) are ideal for any urban/CQB. Genuine Fusion straddles the wide gulf between those two options, but that’s not a possibility for most. In an Urban/CQB setting, I’d opt for the COTI. In *anything* else, I’d go with the split 25/14. If it can be detected by a COTI, it’ll be detected much better by a CoronaSkeet. There is absolutely no comparison.
There are serious compromises to be made with either setup if both circumstances are legitimate probabilities — and if they are, I strongly suggest a change in your life choices.
Frankly, the COTI sucks. It sucked 6 years ago when I first had one and it sucks even more today (apologies to current COTI owners). I’ve been a fusion user for many years now and I’ve seen the light. But I don’t breach or do CQB, so for the Operators among us, you do you. I don’t have kidnapped daughters to save from international sex traffickers. I live in rural Alabama cow country, so clearing urban structures is a low probability scenario. If Antifa gangs storm my farm at night I won’t have time to kit-up with NODs, so I’ll greet them with an AR equipped with a 1200 lumen Surefire M600DF and Aimpoint.
There is absolutely no non-CQB/Urban scenario I can envision where a COTI would outperform a CoronaSkeet, even if you’re an extraterrestrial from the Planet Venus.
One thing to keep in mind is going corona/14 means you can only see through glass with one eye. I like driving with NVGs, so having fusion-style binos with the COTI makes more sense for my purposes. Not a CQB hero, just a guy that’s more comfortable moving around more quickly with two i2 tubes. Having a handheld thermal around the neck is nice to peek through and I’ve been watching the corona for a while to see what other developments it pushes along.
Full fusion goggles are great for how they let you overlay in a different color - pops way more than the monochrome channel projected through with a COTI.
Full fusion goggles are great for how they let you overlay in a different color - pops way more than the monochrome channel projected through with a COTI.
So, I don't have COTIs, but have messed around with them a little, but apparently I do live on Venus, so I can comment. I hate head mounted thermal for where I am. My property has two significant factors that differentiate it from many. One makes thermal useful, the other terrible. In the terrible category, I have an elevation change of 1600 feet from lowest to highest point, and there are a couple of the lows and a couple of the highs. I think in Alabama you guys call that a mountain range. It does make thermal problematic because while it is great for seeing and stalking critters, it sucks for not breaking your ankles when moving relatively quickly over tougher terrain. On the plus side for thermal, we have a few resident grizzlies, and having them bloom while walking around at night is far preferable to getting between a mom and her kids and not noticing until later.
So now I am thinking about buying one of these things, even though I don't think they are, in and of themselves, all that great.
It's been well stated - there's really no comparison.
In a perfect world, you would have the Rona/14/COTI all on one bridge. The beauty of the COTI is (as Wig would say) the ability to use an IR laser when a standard 14 can't see the object unaided, but the COTI makes it plain as day.
The COTI can also be switched on and off very fast and for something so small, the controls are actually pretty easy to navigate. The COTI also has some extremely user adjustable settings on shit that most other thermals do not have in their menus.
In a perfect world, you would have the Rona/14/COTI all on one bridge. The beauty of the COTI is (as Wig would say) the ability to use an IR laser when a standard 14 can't see the object unaided, but the COTI makes it plain as day.
The COTI can also be switched on and off very fast and for something so small, the controls are actually pretty easy to navigate. The COTI also has some extremely user adjustable settings on shit that most other thermals do not have in their menus.
This is perhaps the coolest part of a legit fusion system. You can actually turn the i2 all the way down to near-zero, only seeing the thermal image. However, an IR laser will show up in the thermal image, which — as far as I know — is the only way to make that happen.
It’s pretty cool to see the laser in thermal.
I like the coti a lot. It's not for identification or to resolve any detail, but it's great for detection. It's just to give you a heads up that something is there.
It could be way better. I would also go as far as to say that the two things fill different roles.
If you are hunting through some thick shit, I'd go with the coti. I don't own one personally but would really love to. If you want to resolve some detail through thermal, go with the MH25. I2 is better for navigating, running around, and seeing lights/lasers
It could be way better. I would also go as far as to say that the two things fill different roles.
If you are hunting through some thick shit, I'd go with the coti. I don't own one personally but would really love to. If you want to resolve some detail through thermal, go with the MH25. I2 is better for navigating, running around, and seeing lights/lasers
prepare to shell out a jeep cherokee and still be years behind in tech, if you're just a civi
Lol I was hoping if the Coti sucked so bad someone would be willing to sell me theirs.
COTI is the gateway drug of choice into fusion NV. It shows you what's possible, but it leaves you wanting more.
I bet we're going to see a bunch of used units flooding eBay / EE / PX in 6-12 months with prices in the $1.5-2K range.
Just a hunch.
I bet we're going to see a bunch of used units flooding eBay / EE / PX in 6-12 months with prices in the $1.5-2K range.
Just a hunch.
I used COTI for 3 years ... its great at what it does ... and not great at what it doesn't do.
As a pure thermal spotter ... detection out to 600yds on most nights ... but PID much more limited ... if you allow 10s to observe movement, then I'd say PID out to 150yds ...
But the strength of the coti is enabling shooting with the laser ... if you don't shoot with the laser a lot ... definitely don't need the coti.
Shooting with the coti can be much faster with 556 carbine ... fire up laser point and shot ... under 1s with practice. Note I usually use skeet or patrol on the other eye so primary detection and PID is done with the skeet or patrol. The 14+coti+laser are used to engage.
You can engage critters that the coti can see even if the 14 cannot ... this usually happens when the critter is in or behind vegetation ... and for me is usually a rodent or a coon or an opossum ... I live along a creek and there's lots of vegetation on both sides ... about a third of my critter control is done walking and stalking with 556(10 inch barrel) carbine+laser ... and dual band head mounted NODs.
Skeet+14+coti
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With the coti you basically never need the illum ... I didn't even have an illum on the carbine when I was using coti.
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Current setup .. with ELIR-3 on the carbine ... and no COTI.
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So I'd say I'm more pro-COTI than others .. but I set my expectations about what the COTI is good at and what its not good at ... based on what it can do for me. And its very useful in my terrain ...
So, why did I sell ?? Well a BFF begged me to sell it to him ... so I did ... I thought I could replace it ... I wasn't able to ... so I depleted my cash ... then some cotis popped up (about 2 months ago) ... but no cash ... got some more cash ... no cotis ... spent cash .. now more cotis ... I'd like to have 3 of them !!!
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haha I think I've posted this same post three times this week ... but folks keep asking the same questions so we giving the same answer
As a pure thermal spotter ... detection out to 600yds on most nights ... but PID much more limited ... if you allow 10s to observe movement, then I'd say PID out to 150yds ...
But the strength of the coti is enabling shooting with the laser ... if you don't shoot with the laser a lot ... definitely don't need the coti.
Shooting with the coti can be much faster with 556 carbine ... fire up laser point and shot ... under 1s with practice. Note I usually use skeet or patrol on the other eye so primary detection and PID is done with the skeet or patrol. The 14+coti+laser are used to engage.
You can engage critters that the coti can see even if the 14 cannot ... this usually happens when the critter is in or behind vegetation ... and for me is usually a rodent or a coon or an opossum ... I live along a creek and there's lots of vegetation on both sides ... about a third of my critter control is done walking and stalking with 556(10 inch barrel) carbine+laser ... and dual band head mounted NODs.
Skeet+14+coti
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With the coti you basically never need the illum ... I didn't even have an illum on the carbine when I was using coti.
==
Current setup .. with ELIR-3 on the carbine ... and no COTI.
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So I'd say I'm more pro-COTI than others .. but I set my expectations about what the COTI is good at and what its not good at ... based on what it can do for me. And its very useful in my terrain ...
So, why did I sell ?? Well a BFF begged me to sell it to him ... so I did ... I thought I could replace it ... I wasn't able to ... so I depleted my cash ... then some cotis popped up (about 2 months ago) ... but no cash ... got some more cash ... no cotis ... spent cash .. now more cotis ... I'd like to have 3 of them !!!
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haha I think I've posted this same post three times this week ... but folks keep asking the same questions so we giving the same answer
Another thread was talking about a laser visible to thermal. $60k
For what? Thermal can’t see through glass, and you can’t really use a PVS-14 as a clip-on.
Also, the COTI is definitely not weapons-rated.
You can’t put a COTI behind a scope. I assumed that’s what he was asking.
It was. I know some 14's that are rated for recoil. Wasnt sure on the coti or China one.
Torres Pines Logic makes a collimator that puts the 14 in front of a day optic and then its like a clip-on. That would let you use the COTI/14 combo as a weapon sight. On a 556 with a brake or can, recoil probably not a big problem.
I'll keep looking for it ... but there's been a pic on the internet for years that shows a 14 mounted behind an EOTECH with a coti on the 14 with the coti looking "around" the eotech ... so at least in the pic ... it can be done ... the problems are ...
01 - Many of the 14 mounts are not totally lock up solid ... there is wobble ... with a 14 behind an eotech ... the wobble could be an issue with inducing a recoil spots on the 14 ... having done that a couple of times with NV tubes ... it is not recommended ... if the spots become malignant ... you're looking at a tube replacement ...
02 - I have handled a half dozen different COTIs ... and none of them had lock up tight mounts either ... there is wobble .. so that's double wobble for the coti ... hit that with some recoil and you aren't doing good things ...
Net/Net not recommended without lock up tight mounts for both the 14 and the coti ... and even then .. .be prepared to be unhappy with the recoil effects on either ...
01 - Many of the 14 mounts are not totally lock up solid ... there is wobble ... with a 14 behind an eotech ... the wobble could be an issue with inducing a recoil spots on the 14 ... having done that a couple of times with NV tubes ... it is not recommended ... if the spots become malignant ... you're looking at a tube replacement ...
02 - I have handled a half dozen different COTIs ... and none of them had lock up tight mounts either ... there is wobble .. so that's double wobble for the coti ... hit that with some recoil and you aren't doing good things ...
Net/Net not recommended without lock up tight mounts for both the 14 and the coti ... and even then .. .be prepared to be unhappy with the recoil effects on either ...
Seems like a lot of trying to make something that is good at the one thing into the other thing.
That was my photo. It's been 5+ years and I can't seem to find it.
ETA: It worked surprisingly well.
You'd be even better off buying an LWTS-LR long distance thermal clipon to put in front of your day scope ... and a 14+coti for your right eye and an ir-patrol for your left eye ... and then all the widgets are where they belong doin' what they're good at ... and the universe will be a happy place
Well bingo sorta ... had to jump thru some hoops and lost some resolution ... but it gives the idea ...
Again ... I don't recommend it ... except in a dire emergency ... when the critters that shoot back are in the yard and your laser breaks.
Most 14 mounts and all coti mounts I've had/seen are wobbly ... and wobble + recoil don't mix well ... unless you're looking for JERKS !!
If you wanna thermal on your rifle ... get a HALO-LR or an LWTS-LR !!!
Again ... I don't recommend it ... except in a dire emergency ... when the critters that shoot back are in the yard and your laser breaks.
Most 14 mounts and all coti mounts I've had/seen are wobbly ... and wobble + recoil don't mix well ... unless you're looking for JERKS !!
If you wanna thermal on your rifle ... get a HALO-LR or an LWTS-LR !!!
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You’re seeing the GG&G PVS-14 QD mount. The COTI ring is behind that. You can see it if you look closely.
That’s my photo, from like 2014/2015.
ETA: Here’s that same rifle as of 5 minutes ago.
On my lap with my belt undone and my big belly in the way. Yeah, I get my freak on when the lights go out.
So, I heard sobbing from the other room as I was taking photos of the three rifles above. I walked into the room to see from whence the weeping came. It was poor, little Peanut! She was inconsolable at the thought that I would take family photos and not include her. Well, I had a couple of helmets out as well and they likewise appeared disconsolate. Then I heard muffled cursing coming from the IR Bros, something about how slighted and neglected they felt about their Daddy always using thermal, so they were never needed.
The immediate family has been reunited — well, at least a third of the family anyway — and we took a Big Happy Horta Family Photo!
Yaaay KIDS!!!
The immediate family has been reunited — well, at least a third of the family anyway — and we took a Big Happy Horta Family Photo!
Yaaay KIDS!!!
Nope... They told him he was completely fuckin nuts"little off" ?
But
Good lawd at all the toys
On my lap with my belt undone and my big belly in the way. Yeah, I get my freak on when the lights go out.
View attachment 7376171
Never ever buy used from Horta. You damn near guaranteed to get more than you bargain for, sloppy seconds, and pink eye.
Well this thread took off...referring to my question back on pg.1, I guess I was trying to determine if using a dual band setup would aid movement and target ID (situational awareness) and target engagement in a faster paced environment similar to how a Bino NV system does compared to a single 14.
I get that when hunting and stalking (slow paced) it kills in the target detection game and pick up things NV won’t.
Based on the comments, I guess a NV Bino system is still going to be “king” of urban/CQB night fighting (faster paced “stuff”) and possibly even better in a rural setting (also better with navigating terrain) with a handheld thermal on hand to aid in target detection...?
I get that when hunting and stalking (slow paced) it kills in the target detection game and pick up things NV won’t.
Based on the comments, I guess a NV Bino system is still going to be “king” of urban/CQB night fighting (faster paced “stuff”) and possibly even better in a rural setting (also better with navigating terrain) with a handheld thermal on hand to aid in target detection...?
NV can't see into shadows without illum ... urban has LOTS of shadows ...
14+coti (with patrol on other eye) can see anything/everything that can be seen and can see all this passively.
And nothing faster than 14+coti+laser ...
And nv can be blinded with opposing white light or illum ... thermal cannot be blinded by vis light or ir-illum ... so think carefully before you abandon thermal ... the best course is to be balanced ... and have both ... that's why us "dual-banders" ... go "dual band" ..
For the UTM, supposing it's the same general alignment as the Skeet, I like the Mod Armory bridge, but you can also use the KAC universal bridge.
This?
www.modarmory.com
What do I need to attach the UTM? Thanks
Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System
Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System offers an adaptable system to be configured for dual tube technology.
www.modarmory.com
