CQC 25/50/75/100yard, 20round only, iron / red-dot / 6xMAX only, king of the hill SHOOTOUT

[elfster1234]

that's awesome man! looking forward to the group pics & rifle pic & once you can get them posted i'll get you on the boards. Looking good so far!

I am going to save this from page 3. Unfortunately my laptop is down and I can't post pics. I ran this today in my SWAT gear(I was in a hurry so I literally ran from each yard line to the next).

Gun used was 16inch BCM Lightweight with giessle SSA and aimpoint t1 4moa. Ammo PMC 55gr.

Standing: 1.58. (Best 4=.82)
Kneeling: 3.98
Sitting: 2.69 (best 4= 1.76)
Prone: 3.83 (best 3= .52)

Obviously, I need to take the time to do this right and dial in those fliers(also shows why 3rd groups ain't shit). I didn't feel "right" in kneeling and went with it rather than building a good position. In the other positions my fliers were solely due to impatience and not taking time to let the sights settle. I also would like to play with aiming point sizes on the targets.

 

[lennyo3034]

Can I just post the results of my high power match this weekend? My range will not allow targets closer than 50 yards.

 

[SD26]

Finally, some prone ideas (figure most of you don't need help with this one):
Lauren shooting the AMD - YouTube

Ok, I've seen Lauren before...

How did I miss this thread?

Need to get some toys out...

 

[elfster1234]

Feel free to do the standing at 50yards. Ill let it slide as it will be harder anyway. Best i can do to make it fair to everyone else.

Can I just post the results of my high power match this weekend? My range will not allow targets closer than 50 yards.

 

[elfster1234]

Yeah!! No kidding, how did you miss this thread! JK

Ok, I've seen Lauren before...

How did I miss this thread?

Need to get some toys out...

 

[elfster1234]

Just to make sure my "fundamentals" were up to par & wasn't getting too lazy using a "sandbag" all day long

Shot with no sling, no bipod

Shot with my DPMS 3G1 with 1-4 vortex viper pst w/capped turrets MAGNIFIED!
Average groups size of all 4targets = 2.591 score card total
Rifle used = DPMS 3G1
Barrel Length / Type = 18" SS
Optics = 1-4 vortex viper pst w/capped turrets
Mount = vortex 2"offset cantilever 1pc mount

Shot with reloads
5F mixed brass
cci 400 primer
25.5 varget
55gr z-max w/canalure
2.25" coal


25yards standing @ 1.802" + 50yards kneeling @ 3.307" + 75yards sitting @ 3.878" + 100yards prone / bench @ 1.377" = 10.364 / 4groups = 2.591 score card total

It helped this time around on the sitting portion of the test to follow this guy's method to the "T" (at least for me it did). This was the part I had to most trouble with on the last time I tried this & it helps BIG TIME:
[HD] Eliseo R5 Rifle (Remington 700) Rapid Sitting String (Test/Practice) - 2009-03-28c - YouTube


25yard @ standing un-supported (no sling used):

50yard @ kneeling (no sling used):

75yard @ sitting ("cross ankle style" as in video above, no sling used):

100yard @ bench (no bipod & no rear bag, on bench):

Rifle used, DPMS 3G1 but with no bipod:

 

[elfster1234]

just bumping this letting you all know this is still going on if you want to participate FYI

 

[John1911.com]

Tag.

TTR

 

[elfster1234]

Good news everyone. Starting today 12/1/13. Thanks to marky @ tactical-tshirts ( TacticalTshirts.com | Tactical tshirts T-Shirts Tee-Shirts Gun Shirts ) the grand prize winner will win a design of short-sleeve Tshirt they want, color, size, front or back print, and will ship to YOU directly. The winner will need to PM me their name, shipping address, email, and what t-shirt options they want as listed above & I will forward this info to TacticaltshirtsREP once I announce a winner so he can send you the tshirt in the mail. Thank you once again to marky @ tactical-tshirts! Winner = grand prize winner as listed in the OP,,,,, OR once the top ten fills up & 5 people are listed in the previous leader boards. This is all for fun & is subject to change FYI! Keep it honest & keep it fun & this will hopefully continue into the future!

I've added a means to win a grand prize to this event (for both non-magnified & magnified) FYI as listed below. I think both are difficult but obtainable. This will be subject to change on round2 dependent upon how easy it is to obtain & might make this easier on this round depending on how long it lasts. Learning as I go here people:

CLOSE QUARTERS COMPETITION 25/50/75/100yard ((TRUE1X NO MAGNIFICATION IRONS / B.U.I.S / RED-DOTS / EOTECH)) ((no magnification grand prize awarded @ 1.9 or less score card total)):
*** #1 place: ELFSTER1234, RRA ELITE OPERATOR2 16"CM 5.56, 1X AIMPOINT PRO RED-DOT, (SCORE CARD TOTAL = 3.8905), shot on (07/20/13), post on page1***
#2 place: ELFSTER1234, LMT MWS 20"CL 7.62, (SCORE CARD TOTAL = 4.296), 1X RTS OFFSET IRONS, shot on (07/20/13), post on page1
#3 place: your name here!!!
#4 place: your name here!!!
#5 place: your name here!!!
#6 place: your name here!!!
#7 place: your name here!!!
#8 place: your name here!!!
#9 place: your name here!!!
#10 place: your name here!!!


CLOSE QUARTERS COMPETITION 25/50/75/100yard ((MAGNIFIED RED-DOTS & EOTECHS / VARIABLE POWER SCOPES UP TO 6X ONLY)) ((magnified grand prize awarded @ 1.25 or less score card total)):
*** #1 place: ROPEGUN, WILSON COMBAT 16'' 5.56, 1.5-5 LEUPOLD MARK, (SCORE CARD TOTAL = 1.664), shot on (08/06/13), post on page1***
#2 place: ELFSTER1234, DPMS 3G1 18"SS 5.56, 1-4 VORTEX VIPER PST SCOPE, (SCORE CARD TOTAL = 2.591), shot on (09/08/13), post on page2
#3 place: JRM83, SPIKES LOWER / NOVESKE UPPER 18'' 5.56, 1-4 VORTEX VIPER PST SCOPE, (SCORE CARD TOTAL = 3.206), shot on (08/07/13), post on page1
#4 place: BORNHUNTER04, CUSTOM AR WILSON 18"SS SPR 5.56, 1-4 VORTEX VIPER PST SCOPE, (SCORE CARD TOTAL = 3.726), shot on (07/21/13), post on page1
#5 place: your name here!!!
#6 place: your name here!!!
#7 place: your name here!!!
#8 place: your name here!!!
#9 place: your name here!!!
#10 place: your name here!!!

 

[ropegun]

Cheese and rice -- 1.25 scorecard for the grand prize. Need the A-game in full swing for that.

Although it's ski season in this neck of the woods, I may have to warm up the AR for another go at it.

 

[elfster1234]

yes, you will need your a-game in full swing to make the grand prize, but I think it is possible especially if you pull a smoking hot group at say the 100yard prone... your last score wasn't too far off. A winner will be announced if the top ten fills up & 5 people over flow into the past leaders board IF no one gets the grand prize = free t-shirt sent in the mail for you!!!

Cheese and rice -- 1.25 scorecard for the grand prize. Need the A-game in full swing for that.

Although it's ski season in this neck of the woods, I may have to warm up the AR for another go at it.

 

[jgraves]

I revised rule 20 so hopefully its a little more clear


20.) Any scope that has the ability to go over 6x power can not be used, period.... You are allowed to use back up iron sights if you take off your 6xplus high power scope and you will simply be considered non-magnified. Those that have a 6xplus power scope with offset irons /red-dot sights are allowed to keep the 6xplus power scope on during the test BUT you are NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE 6xplus scope at all during any part of this test and CAN ONLY use the offset 1x sights and will be considered non-magnified. Simply put, you can not use any scope that has the ability to go over 6xpower.

I just stumbled across this thread and think it's an interesting and unique (for the internet) challange. I competed as part of our club's junior rifle program in the prone and 3 position SFC and DCRA smallbore postal matches 20 years ago.

I'm really curious about the logic behind excluding scopes CAPABLE of more than 6x.

I don't think a 6-24x has any advantage over a 1-6x (assuming both are restricted to 6x max) in this challange but based on the focus of this forum, I expect this rule excludes a reasonable number of forum members. I don't know if this rule is contributing to the lack of entries but I'm quite certain it's not boosting participation.

I'll try to shoot this sometime during the next month with my scope (4.5-30x50) set to 6x, realizing it won't be an official entry. I'll still compare my score to the leader board without feeling I had an equipment advantage and will post my unofficial result.

Jeff

 

[elfster1234]

Because this shootout thread was developed before this one & is more geared towards high power scopes and bug hole shooting: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00yard-semi-auto-6group-30round-shootout.html

was trying to get those involved with red dot & low power scopes so they didn't feel left out on the fun..... plus, the way I look at it........ it doesn't hurt to do something different than just bench shooting all day long,,,,, and those in this type of shootout are not going to be rocking big ass 6-24 scopes.... they are most likely going to be quick acquisition iron sights, red dots, and 1x to about 6x scopes... you can still use a rifle that has a huge ass scope on it, but it needs to have an offset iron sights or red dot & you can not use the high power scope over 6x (like my LMT entry with RTS offset iron sights)....

just trying to mix it up rather than bug hole bench shooting with precision rigs.

I just stumbled across this thread and think it's an interesting and unique (for the internet) challange. I competed as part of our club's junior rifle program in the prone and 3 position SFC and DCRA smallbore postal matches 20 years ago.

I'm really curious about the logic behind excluding scopes CAPABLE of more than 6x.

I don't think a 6-24x has any advantage over a 1-6x (assuming both are restricted to 6x max) in this challange but based on the focus of this forum, I expect this rule excludes a reasonable number of forum members. I don't know if this rule is contributing to the lack of entries but I'm quite certain it's not boosting participation.

I'll try to shoot this sometime during the next month with my scope (4.5-30x50) set to 6x, realizing it won't be an official entry. I'll still compare my score to the leader board without feeling I had an equipment advantage and will post my unofficial result.

Jeff

 

[jgraves]

Because this shootout thread was developed before this one & is more geared towards high power scopes and bug hole shooting: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00yard-semi-auto-6group-30round-shootout.html

was trying to get those involved with red dot & low power scopes so they didn't feel left out on the fun..... plus, the way I look at it........ it doesn't hurt to do something different than just bench shooting all day long,,,,, and those in this type of shootout are not going to be rocking big ass 6-24 scopes.... they are most likely going to be quick acquisition iron sights, red dots, and 1x to about 6x scopes... you can still use a rifle that has a huge ass scope on it, but it needs to have an offset iron sights or red dot & you can not use the high power scope over 6x (like my LMT entry with RTS offset iron sights)....

just trying to mix it up rather than bug hole bench shooting with precision rigs.

I agree with almost all of your of reasoning except I think it's also good to get those "rocking big ass 6-24 scopes" off the bench and bags occasionally as well. You put the effort into creating the challange and you have (as you should) final say in the rules.

In any case, this challange inspired me to go practice my positional shooting. I shot the following at the 20 yard indoor pistol range last night with my SR-22, 2.5-16x50 set at 6x and a M1907 sling. All results are scaled to the challange distances and I shot 12 standing targets followed by 12 kneeling, etc. for a total of 240 shots in approximately 75 minutes.

1.585" Average of all 48 targets
1.183" Best Average (target 10 of all positions)
1.918" Worst Average (target 7 of all positions)
0.881" Average of best in each position (0.559, 0.885, 0.870, 1.210)
2.625" Average of worst in each position (1.683, 3.038, 2.591, 3.190)

Observations:
No surprises standing as I shoot standing w/o sling every couple months.
I was a less stable in the kneeling position than I expected (mostly horizontally).
I've only shot sitting (excluding PPC) a couple times in my life. The only position I could get into was an open leg position that didn't feel natural or solid but I shot almost as well as prone. I also had to adjust the sling longer for sitting.
I should have done better prone. I shot bare elbows on commerical carpet over concrete and my left elbow is still tender today. I also should have taken a minute to lengthen the sling one more position.

The first smallbore or highpower shooter to try this with a legal entry is going to clean up. I think sub 1" is possible with both irons and 6x optics. I'll likely try this with the AR and actual distances with the scope set to 6x but a sight compliant entry is too much effort unless I get bored during my time off at Christmas.

Jeff

 

[elfster1234]

thanks for your input jeff. I'm always game for listening to feedback especially when it is done in a calm, cool, and respectful way as you have done and i'll put some thought into this. thanks for the above info & it sounds like you had a good time!

I agree with almost all of your of reasoning except I think it's also good to get those "rocking big ass 6-24 scopes" off the bench and bags occasionally as well. You put the effort into creating the challange and you have (as you should) final say in the rules.

In any case, this challange inspired me to go practice my positional shooting. I shot the following at the 20 yard indoor pistol range last night with my SR-22, 2.5-16x50 set at 6x and a M1907 sling. All results are scaled to the challange distances and I shot 12 standing targets followed by 12 kneeling, etc. for a total of 240 shots in approximately 75 minutes.

1.585" Average of all 48 targets
1.183" Best Average (target 10 of all positions)
1.918" Worst Average (target 7 of all positions)
0.881" Average of best in each position (0.559, 0.885, 0.870, 1.210)
2.625" Average of worst in each position (1.683, 3.038, 2.591, 3.190)

Observations:
No surprises standing as I shoot standing w/o sling every couple months.
I was a less stable in the kneeling position than I expected (mostly horizontally).
I've only shot sitting (excluding PPC) a couple times in my life. The only position I could get into was an open leg position that didn't feel natural or solid but I shot almost as well as prone. I also had to adjust the sling longer for sitting.
I should have done better prone. I shot bare elbows on commerical carpet over concrete and my left elbow is still tender today. I also should have taken a minute to lengthen the sling one more position.

The first smallbore or highpower shooter to try this with a legal entry is going to clean up. I think sub 1" is possible with both irons and 6x optics. I'll likely try this with the AR and actual distances with the scope set to 6x but a sight compliant entry is too much effort unless I get bored during my time off at Christmas.

Jeff

 

[elfster1234]

bump

 

[1slow01z71]

Just my opinion but I think in the future this competition would be better without magnified optics. 6x makes a while world of difference over irons or a RDS. Just got irons on my 20" gun so I should be able to play soon. Been intending on getting some groups in on all the competitions but it seems like something always comes up and I don't have time to do the competition entries.

 

[elfster1234]

thank you for your input my friend.

did you see that the shootout is broke down into two different sections right? one with no magnification, and one with magnification right?

Just my opinion but I think in the future this competition would be better without magnified optics. 6x makes a while world of difference over irons or a RDS. Just got irons on my 20" gun so I should be able to play soon. Been intending on getting some groups in on all the competitions but it seems like something always comes up and I don't have time to do the competition entries.

 

[elfster1234]

friendly reminder bumpage

 

[SD26]

friendly reminder bumpage

The weather is really getting in the way...

 

[elfster1234]

Lol! Tell me about it my friend! Living in wisconsin also with this negative temp bs is bs!

The weather is really getting in the way...

 

[elfster1234]

Bumpage

 

[Crispytortilla]

Well my team layed an egg in the Superbowl so once I get back into town. I think I'm gonna try this. My only question is can I ball my fist as a rear support or us that a no go? Not a big deal as you have allowed for pretty much any support other than bags and rests so I'll find something that works. I'm excited to see how bad (or good) I am out of the dirt!

Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk

 

[elfster1234]

open hand or ball your fist, no problem. looking forward to your results!

Well my team layed an egg in the Superbowl so once I get back into town. I think I'm gonna try this. My only question is can I ball my fist as a rear support or us that a no go? Not a big deal as you have allowed for pretty much any support other than bags and rests so I'll find something that works. I'm excited to see how bad (or good) I am out of the dirt!

Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk

 

[elfster1234]

bro, you should really run this test!

I spent about an hour in dry practice with kneeling/sitting yesterday. I can't wait to try this on the range! During dry practice it seemed really important to let your body settle into the position. I was starting with my lower body and consciously relaxing muscle groups and trying to melt into my position. A few times when I really got the sitting right I felt like I could see my dot bounce with my heartbeat.

 

[lte82]

I spent about an hour in dry practice with kneeling/sitting yesterday. I can't wait to try this on the range! During dry practice it seemed really important to let your body settle into the position. I was starting with my lower body and consciously relaxing muscle groups and trying to melt into my position. A few times when I really got the sitting right I felt like I could see my dot bounce with my heartbeat.

Actually, if you sitting position is truly "good" you won't have any pulse bounce, or at least very very little. It will feel nearly as solid as shooting prone. Keep working at it! =)

 

[wm.penn]

Elfster, I am impressed that you completed this challenge with offset BUIS on your MWS. I tried it yesterday with my KAC SR-15 wearing fixed HK irons and dropped one shot off the page at 100 yds resting across a tree branch. It actually landed two inches to the left on my 75 yd target (I left the targets in place and kept backing up). I'll have to give this another try... or three.

My average was 4.25" including the DQ shot, so I was at least fairly happy with that. But I really need to practice more with this gun at longer ranges. I also need to work on the kneeling shots.

Clockwise from bottom right. Ignore the 300WM holes in the cardboard between the targets, and also the scuff mark high in the center of the black line on the 75 yd target.

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[elfster1234]

bro! that's awesome! not that easy was it!?

actually, if you read my first LMT MWS entry I actually failed my first attempt and had to start all over wasting about 20 rounds (if memory serves me correct)... I had to start all over and was able to finish it on my 2nd try (and I cam really really close to one of my bullets going off paper)... the part that I find really hard is the sitting part, but by following the example youtube video of mine I was able to improve my shots big time.

not that easy until you try it isn't it!? practice really does make perfect when it comes to this test. keep up the good work!

Elfster, I am impressed that you completed this challenge with offset BUIS on your MWS. I tried it yesterday with my KAC SR-15 wearing fixed HK irons and dropped one shot off the page at 100 yds resting across a tree branch. It actually landed two inches to the left on my 75 yd target (I left the targets in place and kept backing up). I'll have to give this another try... or three.

My average was 4.25" including the DQ shot, so I was at least fairly happy with that. But I really need to practice more with this gun at longer ranges. I also need to work on the kneeling shots.

Clockwise from bottom right. Ignore the 300WM holes in the cardboard between the targets, and also the scuff mark high in the center of the black line on the 75 yd target.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wm.penn]

not that easy until you try it isn't it!? practice really does make perfect when it comes to this test. keep up the good work!

It's not easy at all! It's a really great challenge. That was only the second time I've taken the SR-15 out since I put the HK fixed irons on, and it made me realize how limiting they are. I love the bullet proof setup and I'll probably keep it this way, but it's tough to keep five shots on target when the front sight subtends almost the entire width of the page! Plus I don't have Jedi vision so irons aren't my strong suit in the first place. I'm looking forward to practicing more at 100 yds to see if I can consistently produce decent groups.


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[elfster1234]

everything you just said is 100% spot on and is one good reason why I developed this test!! it really puts the idea of using iron sights or even a 1x red dot in perspective when the dot or iron sight front sight damn near covers up the entire 8x11 pc of paper! you really don't have a clue on this concept until you actually give this test a whirl!! I'm actually amazed that more people haven't tried this test of mine because it really gives you a good idea of just how hard it is, and why having even a 1-4 or 1-6 power scope makes such a HUGE difference over a red dot / iron sights.

keep up the good work my friend and keep us informed with your future progress. I cant wait for the snow to melt in my area to give this another run with my rifles!

It's not easy at all! It's a really great challenge. That was only the second time I've taken the SR-15 out since I put the HK fixed irons on, and it made me realize how limiting they are. I love the bullet proof setup and I'll probably keep it this way, but it's tough to keep five shots on target when the front sight subtends almost the entire width of the page! Plus I don't have Jedi vision so irons aren't my strong suit in the first place. I'm looking forward to practicing more at 100 yds to see if I can consistently produce decent groups.


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