I'm not schilling, just passing this along because the pricing is phenomenal and it'd be irresponsible not to share it.
Night Goggles Sale
TNVC Sale
Night Goggles Sale
TNVC Sale
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Honestly, if you have good ir lights or lasers, these will be awesome. Its when there is almost no light that it will make the biggest difference. I have a lower end pvs14 in green, but has a Blem on the edge(doesn’t bother me at all, blocks zero view) and its been great. In total darkness or basically just star light it can be hard to see, but with even a small led ir flashlight its like walking around in daytimeYes, it will be first night vision purchase. My use will be primarily a mixture of nighttime predator control (have some livestock that is getting harassed lately) as well as backcountry navigation for fun and some stargazing. If I do go dual eventually want to be able to split the tubes as I have wife and kids and can’t afford to get too many night vision devices.
Will, these are XLS tubes. Aren't these the ones that allow blems and spots in Zone 1?I'm not schilling, just passing this along because the pricing is phenomenal and it'd be irresponsible not to share it.
Night Goggles Sale
TNVC Sale
Will, these are XLS tubes. Aren't these the ones that allow blems and spots in Zone 1?
It would be nice for sure to know what the blem/spot specs are on these.
Will, these are XLS tubes. Aren't these the ones that allow blems and spots in Zone 1?
It would be nice for sure to know what the blem/spot specs are on these.
So while Sams video explains what the designation on the Elbit Data sheet means, the second part of his video was basically a trash NVD on their HP, P, etc inter company designations and alleged "thousands" of dollars of up charges.Sam did a video on the Elbit tube grades YH (mil-spec), SLH (what would be a NVD HP+), and the XLSH (these tubes).
Elbit Tube Ratings Video
They have more allowable spots (6 versus 5 for SLH and 4 for YH) with 1 spot allowable in zone 1. The minimums are also lower but the price reflects that. The crazy thing is that almost all of the high spec Elbit WP's that you see posted online and on Instagram are these XLSH tubes, so they can have some stellar specs. Kind of similar to the L3Harris 1701 filmless WP tubes. My tubes are 1701's and they have higher specs than I've seen on some 22UM's.
These prices are awesome for someone wanted to get their feet wet with a -14 but where I see the bigger value is for someone who wants binos. $5,600 for gen 3 WP RNVG's with a 10 year warranty is crazy. That's lower than some places selling RNVG's with gen 2 Echos. Even if you got lower spec tubes, I'd rather have a bino with lower spec tubes than a mono with high specs. That's just me but I think most veteran users feel the same way.
IMO, if budget isn't an issue for someone and they want high specs, they are better off ordering tubes with higher spec minimums or doing a hand select option/special spec requests. TNVC posted on ARF that they are not offering hand select option for these tubes. In other words, if I was already planning on special ordering high spec filmless WP or Elbit WP, I wouldn't buy these instead unless you're okay with potentially lower specs & spots and doing it for the $$ savings.
Sam did a video on the Elbit tube grades YH (mil-spec), SLH (what would be a NVD HP+), and the XLSH (these tubes).
Elbit Tube Ratings Video
They have more allowable spots (6 versus 5 for SLH and 4 for YH) with 1 spot allowable in zone 1. The minimums are also lower but the price reflects that. The crazy thing is that almost all of the high spec Elbit WP's that you see posted online and on Instagram are these XLSH tubes, so they can have some stellar specs. Kind of similar to the L3Harris 1701 filmless WP tubes. My tubes are 1701's and they have higher specs than I've seen on some 22UM's.
These prices are awesome for someone wanted to get their feet wet with a -14 but where I see the bigger value is for someone who wants binos. $5,600 for gen 3 WP RNVG's with a 10 year warranty is crazy. That's lower than some places selling RNVG's with gen 2 Echos. Even if you got lower spec tubes, I'd rather have a bino with lower spec tubes than a mono with high specs. That's just me but I think most veteran users feel the same way.
IMO, if budget isn't an issue for someone and they want high specs, they are better off ordering tubes with higher spec minimums or doing a hand select option/special spec requests. TNVC posted on ARF that they are not offering hand select option for these tubes. In other words, if I was already planning on special ordering high spec filmless WP or Elbit WP, I wouldn't buy these instead unless you're okay with potentially lower specs & spots and doing it for the $$ savings.
So Vic, what is the difference between a XLSH and XLS rating.Will is correct. We wanted an offering for budget minded folks, but still offer the 10 year tube and life time system warranty and this is what NightGoggles is all about who btw will soley be carrying these units after the sale concludes July 13th. The demand has been overwhelming and I am answering as many PM's as I can here as well. Thank you.
So while Sams video explains what the designation on the Elbit Data sheet means, the second part of his video was basically a trash NVD on their HP, P, etc inter company designations and alleged "thousands" of dollars of up charges.
I have a Elbit WP XLSH PVS 14 that came from NVD and it is very clean with zero spots in any zone and there was no significant up charge as Sam claims.
Well hopefully one of the experts like Vic or Augee will provide a clear answer on that.I believe it is just XLSH now but I'm not 100%.
I don't believe it pertains to the phosphor color because that's usually in the numerical designation (F9800/9815 GP and F9400/9415 WP).
ETA: I don't know if that's a change since Harris became Elbit or what the deal is (XLS to XLSH).
Thanks for clearing that up Augee. Much appreciated.@WhereNow&How There is no difference between "XLS" and "XLSH."
XLSH is Elbit Systems of America-Night Vision (ESA-NV)'s part number for this tube, however all of their tube part numbers end in an "H," XLSH, SLH, and YH.
The "XLS" line is just Night Goggles' marketing/product line term for systems being built with ESA XLSH-series tubes:
View attachment 7365703
The choice was made because... well, frankly, if you say it out loud "XLS" rolls off the tongue better than "XLSH" (that hard "ayCHh" at the end really kills the vibe, hahaha) and since all the tube types end in "H" anyways, it really doesn't add any information to the description of the product.
That being said, just like "NGI/PVS-14" is an internal product designation, so is "XLS." The tube is still an F9415 (or F9400) XLSH-1 (technically the -1 is also in the P/N) when we order them and receive them from ESA. They do not "become" an XLS System until we build them into an NGI branded device.
The minimum specs are posted on all the web listings for the products as well--and if you already have an XLSH tube with a factory data sheet, you'll see that the published minimum specs come directly from there, along with the spot specs, which again, are listed.
Also, something to keep in mind, while we generally prefer not to discuss "typicals" because there's a certain contract spec--yes, most of the tubes exceed those minimum specs, and many by a very wide margin. However, in the interests of full transparency and disclosure, we're not going to dissemble about what the potential minimums could be (and anyways, they'll be plain for all to see when they get their factory data records with their units).
However, remember that each of those minimums should be viewed in isolation--minimum tube specs don't necessarily mean that you're likely to ever get a tube with every spec at the minimum, yes, it's theoretically possible, however it's statistically unlikely--those minimum specs are individual tolerances for each spec, and any one of them could be the reason for failing MIL-SPECs, or the specs (some microscopic or virtually unnoticeable, like an 11769/9415 with a slightly out of tolerance center image shift, which is not a big deal on a PVS-14, only if you're trying to collimate a binocular device with a pair of these tubes--all of the Night Goggles binocular systems are collimated according to MIL-SPEC tolerances) that disqualify them from MIL-SPECs might not even be among the ones listed on the spec sheet.
~Augee
Well hopefully one of the experts like Vic or Augee will provide a clear answer on that.
It would be nice to know exactly what you would be purchasing. Sams Video did not explain what a XLS designation is and that is exactly what TNVC has these "Special Priced" units designated as.
I do not think it is asking too much for the seller to clearly answer that question.
Yeah, I bought a used unit here on the Hide that is a WP XLSH from NVD. The tube is pretty darn clean and specs pretty decent. I ran it as a single and also slapped that puppy up on a Mod Light Weight paired with a Green NVD 14 with similar specs. Man that is cool. With the WP over my dominate right eye, the whole bino scene is White. Change it over to my left eye and put the Green on my right and my bino scene is Green.I'm 99.99% they are the XLSH's and that's most likely why he did the video to break down the minimum specs.
To save people having to jump off the forum to watch the video. The minimums from the whiteboard in his video:
Photocathode: 1350 min
EBI: 2.5
Gain: 40-80k
Halo: 1.25
Res lp/mm: 64
SNR: 21
Spots: Up to 6 with 1 in zone 1
Based on the minimums, the tubes don't look that great, but there have been several guys post their XLSH specs on ARF with some crazy high numbers nearing 3000 FOM with low EBI, etc. It seems that the average specs are pretty decent and like most tubes IMO it's unlikely you'd get a tube that has all of the specs at these minimums. But anything is possible.
ETA: slow typing got me again lol
Sorry OP for highjacking your post.....but seriously this works?!!! I have a WP and GP and have not tried it but thought about it LOL.....but did not want to experiment with having to acquire a bridge mount.....but if it works now my redneck mind is thinking that may not be such a bad investment. Plus I can use it this fall to bridge my yet to be released and purchased N-vision thermal monocular alongside the WP 14So while Sams video explains what the designation on the Elbit Data sheet means, the second part of his video was basically a trash NVD on their HP, P, etc inter company designations and alleged "thousands" of dollars of up charges.
I have a Elbit WP XLSH PVS 14 that came from NVD and it is very clean with zero spots in any zone and there was no significant up charge as Sam claims.
Yeah, it really surprised me how well it works for me. Amazing.Sorry OP for highjacking your post.....but seriously this works?!!! I have a WP and GP and have not tried it but thought about it LOL.....but did not want to experiment with having to acquire a bridge mount.....but if it works now my redneck mind is thinking that may not be such a bad investment. Plus I can use it this fall to bridge my yet to be released and purchased N-vision thermal monocular alongside the WP 14
Augee, the information on TNVC's website appears to be incorrect.@WhereNow&How There is no difference between "XLS" and "XLSH."
XLSH is Elbit Systems of America-Night Vision (ESA-NV)'s part number for this tube, however all of their tube part numbers end in an "H," XLSH, SLH, and YH.
The "XLS" line is just Night Goggles' marketing/product line term for systems being built with ESA XLSH-series tubes:
View attachment 7365703
The choice was made because... well, frankly, if you say it out loud "XLS" rolls off the tongue better than "XLSH" (that hard "ayCHh" at the end really kills the vibe, hahaha) and since all the tube types end in "H" anyways, it really doesn't add any information to the description of the product.
That being said, just like "NGI/PVS-14" is an internal product designation, so is "XLS." The tube is still an F9415 (or F9400) XLSH-1 (technically the -1 is also in the P/N) when we order them and receive them from ESA. They do not "become" an XLS System until we build them into an NGI branded device.
The minimum specs are posted on all the web listings for the products as well--and if you already have an XLSH tube with a factory data sheet, you'll see that the published minimum specs come directly from there, along with the spot specs, which again, are listed.
Also, something to keep in mind, while we generally prefer not to discuss "typicals" because there's a certain contract spec--yes, most of the tubes exceed those minimum specs, and many by a very wide margin. However, in the interests of full transparency and disclosure, we're not going to dissemble about what the potential minimums could be (and anyways, they'll be plain for all to see when they get their factory data records with their units).
However, remember that each of those minimums should be viewed in isolation--minimum tube specs don't necessarily mean that you're likely to ever get a tube with every spec at the minimum, yes, it's theoretically possible, however it's statistically unlikely--those minimum specs are individual tolerances for each spec, and any one of them could be the reason for failing MIL-SPECs, or the specs (some microscopic or virtually unnoticeable, like an 11769/9415 with a slightly out of tolerance center image shift, which is not a big deal on a PVS-14, only if you're trying to collimate a binocular device with a pair of these tubes--all of the Night Goggles binocular systems are collimated according to MIL-SPEC tolerances) that disqualify them from MIL-SPECs might not even be among the ones listed on the spec sheet.
~Augee
Everyone is different but the majority of guys (including myself) would rather have a lower/average spec bino than a higher spec monocular. With these Night Goggles/TNVC offerings with Elbit XLSH WP tube’s, you’ll more than likely get “good” tubes but it’s possible to get “great” tubes.To bump this post again- I have two questions/ or requests-
Help me spend my wife’s $. - Buy a high spec PVS14 VS sale DTNVG with lower spec tubes.
I am a newbie to NV, I really never sell anything....so if you were to buy a first time laser device... do I overpay and just buy a mawl or a dbal2... I am going to tick off spouse, easier to rip the bandaid off once.
I have read a lot of posts figure 200 meter max range starting point. Where is a good place to start, to get decent shit that worse case scenario I keep for a long time. Thank you all, Happy Independence Day
Augee, the information on TNVC's website appears to be incorrect.
It states:
"The very lowest performance figures of these XLSH tubes approximate U.S. OMNI V performance, often considered to be the first of the modern “high performance” night vision, while the highest spec’ed units rival the best modern “super-tubes.” "
"Tube Specs*:
Tube: Elbit Systems F9415XLSH (3rd Generation)
Color: P45 White Phosphor
Gate: Auto-Gated
FOM: NO MAX
SNR: Min. 21 (NO MAX)
Resolution: Min. 64 lp/mm (NO MAX)
Photocathode Sensitivity (Luminous u A/W): Min. 1350 (NO MAX)
Halo: Max 1.25 (NO MIN)
EBI: Max. 2.5 (NO MIN) "
As you should know, the minimum Photocathode Sensitivity on OMNI V was Min 1800. Omni III was the one that had minimum Photocathode Sensitivity of 1,350.
So the minimum Photocathode Sensitivity on these "Special Priced" units is 33% lower than the minimum Photocathode Sensitivity on the Omni V units. That is not approximating Omni V minimum performance in my judgement.
Just wanted to point that out so its clear what these tubes minimums really represent.
You can debate what “approximate” means if you want, I suppose and make that argument, I suppose.
~Augee
Yeah, I am just an old Redneck. So let me get this correct in Redneck speak.Also, 1800 may be 33% more than 1350, but 1350 is 25% less than 1800. Precision in language is important.
~Augee
The only thing I was trying to point out is that when you dig deep into what TNVC stated, they are not even guaranteed Omni V minimum performance levels like was alluded to. (Let me restate that: "Like was skillfully wordcrafted to appear as approximating Omni V performance levels") There are a lot of new buyers who don't have a clue what to look for and I just want to make sure they clearly understand what they could get.@WhereNow&How
These clearly aren’t the greatest thing since sliced bread and you have to give TNVC their due for listing ALL of the minimum specs. That can’t be said for other dealers who are selling these tubes. I’ve seen some list no specs and others just the resolution and signal to noise ratio.
From what I’ve seen on social media, it seems the majority of buyers who’ve bought these have been very happy with them.
The only thing I was trying to point out is that when you dig deep into what TNVC stated, they are not even guaranteed Omni V minimum performance levels like was alluded to. (Let me restate that: "Like was skillfully wordcrafted to appear as approximating Omni V performance levels") There are a lot of new buyers who don't have a clue what to look for and I just want to make sure they clearly understand what they could get.
Additionally, Sam tried to make a big deal out of others upcharging (not near as much as he stated) for better spec'd XLSH tubes and that TNVC does not.
Well the whole point of an upcharge is to high grade out some tubes such that you know for sure you are getting some of the higher performing tubes.
Me personally, I would rather pay a few hundred more upcharge for some graded out higher spec'd tubes that I know will perform well and do not have blems and other undesirable specs. Pot Luck is not the way to buy tubes IMHO.
But hey, millions of people buy the Lotto ticket every week, hoping they will be the one that hits the jackpot for a few bucks. Most don't.
When you go to a car dealership, they have them spec'd out. Some have 4 cyl, 6 cyl and 8 cyl, some are basic, some are luxury. You pay according to specifically what you want. Night Vision and Thermal is really no different.
So are those 1350 PC tubes worth the same as a 2100 PC tube considering all else is the same. Obviously not. So clearly there will be some losers and maybe some winners. Those XLSH units could easily be graded out into 3 grades and priced accordingly but that is getting off track of what I was simply trying to demonstrate in my earlier posts.
It's all good as long as you understand what you are dealing with.
Thank you for your business. If you have any questions after you get your unit, we're always here after the sale as well. We hope you may get some training as well, with the monies saved purchasing this unit.Ordered. Will be my first NV.
Yeah, I bought a used unit here on the Hide that is a WP XLSH from NVD. The tube is pretty darn clean and specs pretty decent. I ran it as a single and also slapped that puppy up on a Mod Light Weight paired with a Green NVD 14 with similar specs. Man that is cool. With the WP over my dominate right eye, the whole bino scene is White. Change it over to my left eye and put the Green on my right and my bino scene is Green.
So I got great depth perception and can run my Bino as a Green or White phosphor scenery depending on my particular mood that night.
Another advantage to Bridging PVS 14's over a dedicated Bino system: ability to change color.
Redneck Engineering and mindset is an amazing thing.
Well I bought it 2nd hand, but I know for a fact that the tube came from NVD. Housing elsewhere. It is a very clean tube cosmetically, FOM 1945 and all other specs are pretty decent. Good performer. Will roll with a good spec Omni VII unit all night long. And it was a very low priced unit for its performance.Never knew NVD sold XLSH tube units?
Yea the white vs. green is always subjective at times. Thanks for the reply.Well I bought it 2nd hand, but I know for a fact that the tube came from NVD. Housing elsewhere. It is a very clean tube cosmetically, FOM 1945 and all other specs are pretty decent. Good performer. Will roll with a good spec Omni VII unit all night long. And it was a very low priced unit for its performance.
NVD usually has very clean cosmetic tubes compared to many others. I guess they high grade that out during their purchasing arrangements. That's just my speculation but their tubes are much cleaner than average.
However, I am not overly impressed with the WP over Green. I may change my mind after more time under WP. It does do better in high light environments as far as seeing clearer, but I spend most of my time in dark environments.
Thank you for the kind words and trust in our gear. Thank you for the business as well!Sold- My first DTNVG unit on order, will review after I get them. I appreciate the availability of a budget item from a vendor that I feel I trust. I have called a couple of times, got a lot of good info, wasn’t steered to buy anything, that in itself is awesome. Takes the I hope I get something that actually works out of the decision. TY
No, but you have a 14 day return policy on these.Are you able to see the spec sheet on these before you get them or do you find out when they arrive?
No but I need to ask SF again. Thanks for the reminder and thank your buddy for his business. We really appreciate it.A good Buddy of mine just ordered two tubes from ya'ii and is planning on running the KAC Universal Bridge. Hopefully, you'll take good care of him!!
Vic, on a separate subject...have you beat up Surefire lately on the Tan XVL2 shipping estimate?
Just ordered a set with the ActInBlack housing and Wilcox G24 mount.
Fingers crossed for good spec tubes.
Not gonna lie, the wait is gonna drive me insane I just know it.