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Criterion Barrel & Remage Barrel Nut Setup in 6.5 Creedmoor - Worked great for me!
- Thread starter Southpaw357
- Start date
Great product and quality!
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...295-remage-barrel-conversion.html#post3206672
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...295-remage-barrel-conversion.html#post3206672
I just finished a CBI conversion (.260 Match) on a new Savage varmint action in an AICS for my son...schweet...
He has his first rifle, a 700 in .223, that I'd like to re-barrel to another long-range capable caliber.
What I don't get, is what the hell do you do with the recoil lug for the 700? There is no notch in the receiver...
I'm assuming I'd need to mill a notch in the bottom of the receiver? This never seems to be discussed on these conversions...
He has his first rifle, a 700 in .223, that I'd like to re-barrel to another long-range capable caliber.
What I don't get, is what the hell do you do with the recoil lug for the 700? There is no notch in the receiver...
I'm assuming I'd need to mill a notch in the bottom of the receiver? This never seems to be discussed on these conversions...
I think that the post that is a couple up from yours with a link in it has some pictures and discussion about notching the receiver. Since I've only done this with a Stiller action that comes with a pinned lug, I unfortunately can't help you on your question. But from what I recall, you can get a lug from Northland Shooters Supply (same guy who sells the barrel) and then have a gunsmith relieve a notch in your receiver to mate them. I bet you could get a good answer from Jim at Northland Shooters.
I did not pin my recoil lug.. My Smith just used a normal Remington recoil lug alignment tool. I was going to do it myself, but where I had him cut down my barrel/thread it, I just went ahead and let him throw it together. Super easy and it works great. I guess the only downside is if I ever take my barrel back off for whatever reason, I would require having the alignment tool. I think Midway sells them for around 15 bucks. Hope that helps.
Josh,
I enjoyed this write up and so I decided to go down the same road. Called Jim and he was very helpful. Ordered a .260 barrel and all of the tools I need to do the job. Now all I need is a gunsmith to remove the old barrel, notch my receiver for the lug and thread my barrel for a suppressor. Anyone know of a smith that is willing to do these things without wanting to true the threads?
I highly recommend Phoenix Custom Rifles. Give them a call. I am very impressed by their shop and their knowledge. They are experienced rifles smiths. Their website has a pricelist; sort of like a menu. Good place to start.
If i understand your needs correctly, just call them and ask them for a price quote for your specific needs, even if it doesnt match the services menu on their site. Removal of factory barrel they can do. Threading your new barrel they can do. Notching your receiver they can do. Then they can send the parts back for you to assemble. You should also consider finding a local smith to save on shipping costs. I think any competent smith who works on remington 700's can do what you need.
Dan @ Dark Eagle Customs.
The Rem-Age I have had the action notched by Accurate Ordinance.
I have two questions about this.
1. if you don't have a pinned lug, how do you make sure the lug stays in the right place?
2. What does the barrel nut thread onto? Does it thread into the threads the barrel normally uses?
1. if you don't have a pinned lug, how do you make sure the lug stays in the right place?
2. What does the barrel nut thread onto? Does it thread into the threads the barrel normally uses?
Criterion Barrel & Remage Barrel Nut Setup in 6.5 Creedmoor - Worked great fo...
1, short answer is, if you use an action wrench, the action wrench is notched for a recoil lug. So you don't need a pinned lug, rather a pinned lug just makes installation easier. If you watched the youtube video i posted earlier in this thread, it shows the technique i used, which was to clamp an action wrench in a vise. But there is another installation procedure, that accomplishes the same goal, that uses both a barrel vise and an action wrench. It is perfectly illustrated in this video by bergara barrels, who makes a competing "remage" product to what i used. Even though he uses a different technique, he gets the same result. Also interesting to see how the bergara barrel nut uses a strap wrench as opposed to a barrel nut wrench like my nut uses. But in either circumstance, you use the barrel lug recess in the action wrench to index the lug to the action. http://youtu.be/xXsd6kXRHh4
2. The barrel is threaded on its exterior at the breach end. A portion of those threads thread into the action. The lug is then installed and then the remaining threads that are not threaded into the action are what the barrel nut threads onto. When its all said and done, there are no "exposed" threads on the barrel, but everything is threaded together perfectly.
3. A note about #1: jim briggs at northland shooters supply sells a recoil lug with a small stump on it. You then take a dremmel or similar tool and cut a small notch at six o' clock on your action to stick the stump into. This creates the same affect as a pinned lug and makes final assembly easier i presume. I have not seen or used his lug, but others in this thread have successfully used them. If you want to go that route you can call Jim and ask him about it or google search his recoil lug, i bet there are a handful of existing forum discussions about them. I will say that under any circumstance, a pinned lug is not required to complete a build like this; however it does simplify assembly a bit and also adds some structural rigidity to the mating of the lug and action. And structural rigidity is usually a good thing.
Hope that helps. Southpaw.
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1, short answer is, if you use an action wrench, the action wrench is notched for a recoil lug. So you don't need a pinned lug, rather a pinned lug just makes installation easier. If you watched the youtube video i posted earlier in this thread, it shows the technique i used, which was to clamp an action wrench in a vise. But there is another installation procedure, that accomplishes the same goal, that uses both a barrel vise and an action wrench. It is perfectly illustrated in this video by bergara barrels, who makes a competing "remage" product to what i used. Even though he uses a different technique, he gets the same result. Also interesting to see how the bergara barrel nut uses a strap wrench as opposed to a barrel nut wrench like my nut uses. But in either circumstance, you use the barrel lug recess in the action wrench to index the lug to the action. http://youtu.be/xXsd6kXRHh4
2. The barrel is threaded on its exterior at the breach end. A portion of those threads thread into the action. The lug is then installed and then the remaining threads that are not threaded into the action are what the barrel nut threads onto. When its all said and done, there are no "exposed" threads on the barrel, but everything is threaded together perfectly.
3. A note about #1: jim briggs at northland shooters supply sells a recoil lug with a small stump on it. You then take a dremmel or similar tool and cut a small notch at six o' clock on your action to stick the stump into. This creates the same affect as a pinned lug and makes final assembly easier i presume. I have not seen or used his lug, but others in this thread have successfully used them. If you want to go that route you can call Jim and ask him about it or google search his recoil lug, i bet there are a handful of existing forum discussions about them. I will say that under any circumstance, a pinned lug is not required to complete a build like this; however it does simplify assembly a bit and also adds some structural rigidity to the mating of the lug and action. And structural rigidity is usually a good thing.
Hope that helps. Southpaw.
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[MENTION=44155]Southpaw357[/MENTION] and [MENTION=104339]CriterionBarrels[/MENTION]
I am enjoying the 6xc I got from you... 300 yards, all but one was running .3-.4 moa in vertical and I know I pulled the one that didn’t. I had heavy mirage the day this was taken which makes me wonder if that played a role in the 39.6 grain charge that put 5 into just a hair over one inch while the others were a little more open clusters...
Was using H4350 and berger hybrids, 39.6g puts me around 3075fps and about 60-80 fps faster than my 21" benchmark barrel with the same load, but with a shorter freebore and seating depth.
I am enjoying the 6xc I got from you... 300 yards, all but one was running .3-.4 moa in vertical and I know I pulled the one that didn’t. I had heavy mirage the day this was taken which makes me wonder if that played a role in the 39.6 grain charge that put 5 into just a hair over one inch while the others were a little more open clusters...
Was using H4350 and berger hybrids, 39.6g puts me around 3075fps and about 60-80 fps faster than my 21" benchmark barrel with the same load, but with a shorter freebore and seating depth.
Hi Mike, what i can tell you is i have barreled two criterion barrels on two stiller tac30 AW actions and had no problems whatsoever with bolt head clearance or function due to the stiller extractor setup. Everything functions perfectly with no modifications necessary. I never took any counterbore measurements because i never had any problems. Hope that helps.
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Wheels turning. If I went with a Defiance Deviant with an integral rail what sort of action wrench could I use for that?
That is a good question. One reason i have never installed the pins that come with my stiller tac 30 that are used to better mate the picatinny rail to the action is once i put those pins in, i cant pull them out of the action by hand or with a tool. And those pins get in the way of the action wrench, so i just skip the pins and let the beefy rail screws be sufficient. However, on a defiance, the rail is integral creating a problem where no action wrench i know of is compatible. The good thing, albeit unrelated yo your question, is that your recoil lug is integral, at least. So i think you could get away with putting some wood blocks in your vice and just tightening the vice on the action real tight without smooshing the action out of spec, so that it wont move when you torque the barrel nut. That defiance action is beefy so this may be no problem. Or another idea, albeit time consuming, would be to fabricate something like an action wrench out of wood that would fit around your action, which you would tighten with 2 bolts (just like an action wrench looks/works) and then drop it in a vice like i did. Basically a custom "action holder". Because when you look at it, the way i did it the action wrench really just acts as an action holder. It makes sense in my head, but kind of hard to explain so i hope that makes sense. Southpaw
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[MENTION=72959]Randoman5[/MENTION] [MENTION=44155]Southpaw357[/MENTION]
I bought an action wrench so I could remove Remington factory barrels, if I was not doing that, this tool would be all I would need with a pinned lug or one piece action.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...n-action-wrench-sku100003675-26568-51926.aspx
they are out of stock right now but search the web... I have seen them elsewhere... search action wrenches and you see all kinds brain storm ideas... I think pt&g has one the goes into the bolt channel. But I use the surgeon and have not had an issue, no need to remove my scope rail on my Tac 30. If you are setting a specific torque value remove 10% from the total because of the offset.
I bought an action wrench so I could remove Remington factory barrels, if I was not doing that, this tool would be all I would need with a pinned lug or one piece action.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...n-action-wrench-sku100003675-26568-51926.aspx
they are out of stock right now but search the web... I have seen them elsewhere... search action wrenches and you see all kinds brain storm ideas... I think pt&g has one the goes into the bolt channel. But I use the surgeon and have not had an issue, no need to remove my scope rail on my Tac 30. If you are setting a specific torque value remove 10% from the total because of the offset.
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What if you just had a barrel vise? The threads are on the barrel, not the action, so if you could hold the barrel in place with something like the Wheeler barrel vice and turned the barrel nut on the barrel wouldn't that get you the same result as holding the action in place?
Not sure I follow you... male threads on the barrel, female threads on the action and nut, nut locks the two together but you are going to want something to keep both sides from turning as you torque the nut down.
Wow, nifty!!! Do you clamp the action in a vise to secure it?
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No, just use a barrel vice and with a pinned lug action, screw the action down hand tight and drop the surgeon tool into the bolt channel and apply torque... this assumes your using a headspaced barrel.
What I did with the barrel I bought from you is the same but I had to apply counter pressure to the tool while I applied torque to the savage nut wrench. AND because I was just using a non pinned Remington I used the bottom half of the action wrench from wheeler that holds the lug in placed and shimmed it with feeler gauges to keep it indexed (the action wrench half held in place by a fully threaded action screw)... almost a three handed job but it worked. If I was doing this all the time I found this on eBay that may make life easier... Remington 700 F s Barrel Tool by Kleinendorst | eBay
PS, what I said in an above post about not needing to removed the scope rail, I am almost certain I didn't need to remove the rail on the stiller but I think I did need to on the standard Remington with the badger I have on it... IIRC, the stiller rail sits just high enough that it is out of the way like the surgeon action does that the tool was designed for.
What I did with the barrel I bought from you is the same but I had to apply counter pressure to the tool while I applied torque to the savage nut wrench. AND because I was just using a non pinned Remington I used the bottom half of the action wrench from wheeler that holds the lug in placed and shimmed it with feeler gauges to keep it indexed (the action wrench half held in place by a fully threaded action screw)... almost a three handed job but it worked. If I was doing this all the time I found this on eBay that may make life easier... Remington 700 F s Barrel Tool by Kleinendorst | eBay
PS, what I said in an above post about not needing to removed the scope rail, I am almost certain I didn't need to remove the rail on the stiller but I think I did need to on the standard Remington with the badger I have on it... IIRC, the stiller rail sits just high enough that it is out of the way like the surgeon action does that the tool was designed for.
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Ok i understand now. I do not own a barrel vise but see the advantages there if the action has a rail on it. And that lug alignment tool you just posted is genius!
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This seems pretty cool. I plan to build a 22-250 that Im expecting to be a barrel burner... this would be a great idea to avoid having to pay a gunsmith t replace the barrel.
If looking to do a M40 barrel contour, which would be the better choice.. the bull or varmint contour?? All the measurements on the diagram confuses me
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If looking to do a M40 barrel contour, which would be the better choice.. the bull or varmint contour?? All the measurements on the diagram confuses me
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Be careful what you wish for. The Bull is going to be heavy. I have a 26" heavy varmint and it is heavy enough for any thing that needs to be heavy. I would think twice before going for more. Mine is a 280 bore.
The bull is probably the closest to m40 weight. The muzzle dia will be bigger but since it is using a nut the chamber end will be 1.060", vs. a m40's 1.25". I have a remage with a 24" bull in an aics with viperskins wearing BO rails&rings with a bushy dmr scope. I believe it is in the 15-16 lb range. Old barrel is a 243 8 twist that i bought new the summer of 2012, it now has 2600 rds on it. It still hammers, but is about 100 fps slower. I got a 28" varmint243 ackley 8 twist in bound as i type. Going to a buddy's bachelor party with 200 rds to finish the barrel off, plus i get to humble myself in skeet, should be fun.
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Yes, this would be an excellent option for a barrel burner caliber. You will save a ton of coin by the time you are on your second or third barrel and the savings just keep racking up.
How many inches long do you want your barrel? Assuming you want a 26" barrel, the varmint barrel will taper down from 1" down to 0.815" (thicker at the chamber getting skinnier towards the muzzle) and weight in at 4.5 lbs.
The bull is just a straight 1" pipe. At the same 26" length, it will weigh 6 lbs, a 25% increase in weight.
The M24 contour (not sure if M24 = M40) tapers from 1" down to .09" so it appears to fall right in between the Criterion Varmint and Bull contours.
There is no wrong choice, rather I would ask you how you intend to use the rifle. The bull will be more rigid and will have more steel, and therefore will be less susceptible to barrel whip and will not heat up as fast, which can keep your groups tighter if you are shooting rapid strings of fire. If all you're going to do is sit prone or sit on the bench, then I think rigidity and added weight is your friend and the increased weight won't be a negative attribute.
However, if you plan on moving around with the rifle or are concerned about the overall weight of the rifle once you have an optic on it for any reason, you may want to consider the varmint contour. It seems to be just the right thickness for a tactical rifle and would be perfect for tactical matches. Aesthetically, it does not look to "skinny". For my use, which is tactical shooting and positional shooting including prone, I think I would have regretted a 1" bull barrel had I got one. I definitely like my Varmint contour barrel.
I hope that is helpful. Southpaw
M24 is 1.2 tapering to .9, m40 is 1.25 tapering to around .9. Those will be similar weight to a bull remage
I have a m24/m40 rock creek 21.75" long on a 223 (not a remage) and it is a heavy monster in all but prone and bench, as stated above. I also have the same but fluted on a 308. I personally will not get that contour again unless I am using a 338 bore or larger... It should be about perfect for a 450 bushmaster or 45 raptor project I am dreaming up for southern Michigan deer hunting though... and if I miss I can still hit them over the head with it without the barrel deflecting.
Thanks for the info Southpaw. My 22-250 will be a hunting/tac rifle so I may just go with the Varmint contour to avoid the unnecessary weight of the bull if I go with this setup..
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